S2000 Final Drive: 4.77 vs 4.44!

[dlai5552]

Hey guys,
I'm looking for peoples opinions on either of these final drive set ups.
I was thinking of going the 4.77, except it might be too short (I think it's called short? maybe lower?) where I'd be shifting too often and early.

Hopefully getting a track set up for the car, but mainly with street use purpose.
I know 4.44 is great on track as well as proven by the J's racing S2000, however they are running the 2.2L engine.

Any input would be great, hopefully this will help a lot of people in this situation :)

[euromandeluxe]

Gears are good on the track depending on which track. 4.44 is meant to be great at Philip Island (as you can get into 6th on the straight) but crap at Winton (apparently you can't select a proper gear for some of the corners, you'll either hit the limiter in the lower gear part way around or be out of the power band in the higher gear).

Do you do lots of freeway driving? 4.77 will have you sitting at high revs in 6th @ 100kmph. I'd agree in saying 4.77's probably too short.

I have the 4.44, but I haven't properly driven an S with stock 4.1 gearing so can't comment. 4.44 works ok on the street.

[aozora]

4.57 from MFactory. Win. One of my next mods I think...

euromandeluxe where did you get your 4.44 installed and for how much?

[dlai5552]

yeah my main type of driving is freeway driving, ie. 110km/hr roads :(

hmmm, never looked into 4.57 FD, that sounds interesting and a good compromise.
However, I dont know about Winton and Philip Island sorry, I'm a NSW boy... so Wakefield Park and Eastern Creek (I dont think I will hit up eastern creek though, too much $$)
At wakefield, I think for stock FD you in mainly 3rd and 4th around the track, but down to 2nd on a couple of tight corners.
Although euromandeluxe, what do you mean it works "ok" on the streets?
I have to accomodate for my freeway driving + some track days... Anyone have more info on 4.57FD?

[aozora]

http://www.teammfactory.com/final-drive-gears-road-race

Just used their calculator and it doesn't seem accurate... may need to pull the gear ratios from somewhere else.

[euromandeluxe]

euromandeluxe where did you get your 4.44 installed and for how much?

They came installed with the car, so can't help you there, sorry.



Although euromandeluxe, what do you mean it works "ok" on the streets?

I don't have any issues with it, although he previous owner seems to think the car was better with stock gearing on the streets (didn't say why though). You'll be changing gears a bit more, that's about all I can think of.

[dlai5552]

thanks for the website... but I'm having trouble locating the calculator lol?

[aozora]

http://www.turnzero.com/technical_resources.php?resource=gear_calculator

Try this one :)

The original link was just details about the 4.57

[dlai5552]

Thanks man!
btw, how accurate do you think this is? lol..
damn, typed in 4.77FD gives ~4400 RPM in 6th gear at 70mph (112kph)
Crazy LOL... that added with a J's racing 70mm single and AEM V2, I think I may turn deaf? haha.

[aozora]

Seems relatively accurate but I have to correct...

Top speeds...
Stock 4.1 - 267 km/hr ~3200rpm at 100km/hr - "Power gain" is 0%
4.44 - 247 km/hr ~3600rpm at 100km/hr - "Power gain" is 9%
4.57 - 238 km/hr ~3700rpm at 100km/hr - "Power gain" is 11%
4.77 - 228 km/hr ~3800rpm at 100km/hr - "Power gain" is 14%

[mpetrossian]

I have the 4.77 in my car. It made a big difference to pickup, but the only downside is revs when on the freeway - 4,000rpm @ 100km/h. But hey, we still have another 5,000rpm to go :-)

[aozora]

Hmm I'm actually leaning towards a 4.77 now haha...

[mpetrossian]

This should help with the decision for a diff mod - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89rGbTbFfKs :-)

PM me if you need a list of the parts. I got the bearings and crush tube out of the US (OEM Honda still) and saved about $100 over the price from the Perth Honda dealer.

[VeYzZii]

i got a 4.44. Im pleased with it for everyday use. Ive never taken my car to the track so i wouldnt know track-wise if its any good. That being said, i wouldnt buy a FD tuned and dedicated for track if the car is not dedicated for the track..

[vyets]

I love the 4.77 for daily, i never really saw changing gears too often as a bother only thing that annoys me is the whine besides that it's sweet az! don't know if the cars actually faster but it feels good haha, its kind of annoying at winton but might work better on other tracks, I've been thinking of switching to 4.44 but see how it goes.

[DC2-PWR]

Get 4.77 bro you will love it for a daily.

[dlai5552]

What happened to 4.57 lol? Doesnt that seem appealing? Haha.
Although in buying an FD have to account petrol as well... Who uses the 4.77 and knows how many kms per tank?
To some it might be a big deal, but I don't have money to pay every 250- 300kms lol
Also, what's this whining noise people talk about? Is it throughout the other FD's???

I'm leaning towards 4.77 :)

[vyets]

i wouldnt mind the 4.57 caus when i had the 4.44 i didn't feel much of a diff
petrols a killer haha depending but.. city driving still the same freeway driving drains more then it used too nwo :(

whining noise is just a whining noise apparently its normal shrugs* i can't hear it over my exhaust anyway haha

[chriis2k]

i Just bought my M-Factory 4.57 FD! should be installed within the next 2 weeks. i'll let you know how it goes once it's running ha

[dlai5552]

You're from sydney too! pm me when it's on and take me for a ride :)

[chriis2k]

haha no problem :)

[sae]

Regarding the whining noise, the problem occurs when the fd is not installed correctly. If you find a reputable shop that does quality work, the problem would not occur.

[zco]

Whine is when oil is cold. When it's warm it will stop. That's the oem gl5oil. If you use another oil, it will quieten it down cold or hot

[dlai5552]

where's the oil coming from? is it the Diff oil? If so, usually you use MTF OEM for that, what's gl5 oil?
I'm a noob in this area, haha.. only decided to look into one because I heard upgrading FD> Headers.

[zco]

lol if you think mtf oil is the right oil to use for your differential, then be my guest

[dlai5552]

oh shit.... I was thinking of transmission HAHAHAHAHAHA. yeah you're right!

[s2kjn]

You're from sydney too! pm me when it's on and take me for a ride :)

We should meet up and check it out!

[dlai5552]

We should meet up and check it out!

You already got J's headers man, calm down haha. I'm still running stock.
You're name isn't on the Honda national list yet either? I'm waiting man lol

[dlai5552]

Could someone please give me an idea of how many km's you can get out of a full tank with the 4.77 final drive!!??
I've heard you can get around 450kms?

[vyets]

i get about 400ish

[drsilliez]

Mines stock fd and I only get abt 400km. Is there something wrong then?

[VeYzZii]

damn i get like 350 :S

[AusS2000]

Your FD doesn't directly effect your fuel economy, your driving style does. Suppose you drive around showing off you 4.77 FD, launching it at every light, redlining in every gear, you go through a tank quickly. But so will you with stock FD.

[lzybum]

stock fd (with i/h/e and stock ecu too) and i get about 420-440km per tank and fill up about 42-43L.
apparently our tank is a 50L tank? (i didn't even know that lol)

[dlai5552]

I'm same with lzybum, except I'm not running headers, and I just fill up until the pump doesn't let me anymore haha.
however, I would think that by driving on freeways, you'd lose more petrol by cruising at a high rpm WITH the 4.77 fd

[vyets]

Your FD doesn't directly effect your fuel economy, your driving style does. Suppose you drive around showing off you 4.77 FD, launching it at every light, redlining in every gear, you go through a tank quickly. But so will you with stock FD.

pretty much :)

[winkyc]

i get around 400 for 4.77

[tamay_s2k]

im running 4.44s on my s2k and in a straight line, from take off im about 1 car length infront of a standard s2k and that gaps always increasing.
definantly makes the car feel more rough and 'torquey' and it chirps 3rd!!! :P..oh and second effortlessly
ive heard that 4.44s are perfect and 4.77 are a bit 2 extreme becuase apparently ur always shifting and dont get as much time 2 actually enjoy the gears.
inbox VYETZ as his ur best bet for personal opinions on the 4.77s

[fatboyz39]

Keep it factory and supercharge it :).

[tamay_s2k]

^ I AGREE 100%
i only changed mine becuz i had 2 build a new diff from scratch and needed a new FD so y not an upgrade :P
dont regret it but the diff all up cost me the price of a charger kit :( 4K!!

[dlai5552]

^ I AGREE 100%
i only changed mine becuz i had 2 build a new diff from scratch and needed a new FD so y not an upgrade :P
dont regret it but the diff all up cost me the price of a charger kit :( 4K!!

Too many burnouts! HAHA
but nah, supercharger is too crazy. but I've talked to a lot of people, and they've said 4.77 is awesome, including vyets.
so maybe that will do.

[fatboyz39]

How are supercharger too crazy? LOL... 4.77 would be rev'ving like crazy and not moving anywhere. Not to mention fuel consumption will be worst off.

[vyets]

How are supercharger too crazy? LOL... 4.77 would be rev'ving like crazy and not moving anywhere. Not to mention fuel consumption will be worst off.

True story LOL except fuel consumption it's the same unless you do alot of freeway driving.

turbo it if you want power but :P never really been a fan of sc.

If you go with more power you'll be shifting alot anyway so I don't know why people complain about shifting alot it's not THAT bad and it's not like your sitting at redline all day.

[fatboyz39]

Depends on what charger. If you sat in a rotrex powered car you'll be suprise of the linear power delivery. If your ever in sydney, i can show you a K series Rotrex supercharge might change your mind :).

Back on topic, ill go with 4.4FD if you had to choose.

[jooboo]

reading through a few final drive threads im still torn between 4.44 and 4.77, most likely go with 4.77 cause its cheaper lol
just wondering if you guys replaced the pinion bearings when you changed final drives???

[mpetrossian]

I replaced the pinion bearing when I did mine. I got a kit from the hardtopguy with the seals & crush tube too (heaps cheaper than buying from Honda in Perth and all OEM parts still) -

http://hardtopguy.com/store/product.php?productid=534&cat=56&page=1

[jooboo]

did labour take long? i will be replacing my housing with the comptech too

anyone had experience with both final drives???

[dlai5552]

I started this thread, and I went with 4.77, no regrets!
So go for the 4.77 and we can be even more alike hahaha, but seriously it's good! And hwy driving is not too bad either and I've got the J's 70RS which is pretty loud.

Also, you can get the OEM parts from CFL honda for cheaper as well.

[jooboo]

alright! just bought a 4.77 gear cyro treated, new seals, pinion nut, crush sleeve, pinion bearings...should be here hopefully next week

just wondering how long labour wise is takes to install? and any mechanic should be right doing it?

[Ferrari]

I have done it twice and its approx $700, im pretty sure thats with new bearingsand seals each time though. A mechanice removes it and generally sends it off to a diff specialist.

[RIHIA]

i spoke with clint at hart transmission in bendale... he quoted approx $500 drive in drive out.

where did you buy your final drive from, im looking at the m factory 4.57 for mine

[chriis2k]

where did you buy your final drive from, im looking at the m factory 4.57 for mine

I have the Mfactory 4.57 FD. It's awesome! Best mod i did NA, but its extremely loud, as in i hear it over my J's Racing 70rs lol

[e240]

^ alot of people underestimate the performance gained from gearing changes.

Glad you liked your unit.

[RIHIA]

chriis2k should it be louder though?

e240 i emailed from the mfactory website, does that go to you lol, im looking at purchasing very soon and i saw on the website that there is a lighter flywheel too... would it be wise to swap the flywheel as well ? also is it shipped from australia or usa ?

[euromandeluxe]

The gears being discussed here are in the diff, the flywheel is at the mating of the engine and transmission. If you do the flywheel as well as diff gears you need to pull the tranny (which is a big job) and you may as well do the clutch at the same time.

[chriis2k]

^ alot of people underestimate the performance gained from gearing changes.

Glad you liked your unit.

haha my s2k vs my friends stock geared s2k. It's like a totally different car, no lag, just straight VTEC = car lengths ahead, even from 1-2. Best Mod. And the 2 day shipping was great too ;)

[chriis2k]

chriis2k should it be louder though?

e240 i emailed from the mfactory website, does that go to you lol, im looking at purchasing very soon and i saw on the website that there is a lighter flywheel too... would it be wise to swap the flywheel as well ? also is it shipped from australia or usa ?

Yeh the 4.57's are the loudest in terms of diff whine. I kinda like it though lol

[RIHIA]

The gears being discussed here are in the diff, the flywheel is at the mating of the engine and transmission. If you do the flywheel as well as diff gears you need to pull the tranny (which is a big job) and you may as well do the clutch at the same time.

yeah i know where a flywheel sits lol just thought it may be cheaper to get them posted at the same time if there are coming from the us if im only paying less than 300 for a flywheel ! but thanks for the input...

just seems to me there is no point trying to gain 1-2 hp gains NA when you can change the diff ratio.

[RIHIA]

haha my s2k vs my friends stock geared s2k. It's like a totally different car, no lag, just straight VTEC = car lengths ahead, even from 1-2. Best Mod. And the 2 day shipping was great too ;)

yes this is exactly what im after :) did you order off e240?

this car is replacing my daily s15 with built motor so it does seem a bit laggy in terms of extracting the best power out of it

[chriis2k]

yes this is exactly what im after :) did you order off e240?

this car is replacing my daily s15 with built motor so it does seem a bit laggy in terms of extracting the best power out of it

Built S15, Nice!

Yep, bought it through e240 and had it in my hands two days later :)

haha yeh trust me you'll love it once the gears are in, virtually no more lag

[euromandeluxe]

yeah i know where a flywheel sits lol just thought it may be cheaper to get them posted at the same time if there are coming from the us if im only paying less than 300 for a flywheel ! but thanks for the input...

just seems to me there is no point trying to gain 1-2 hp gains NA when you can change the diff ratio.

Hahaha fair enough, I was wondering why you were asking

[euromandeluxe]

If you're after a flywheel keep an eye out on the US S2Ki classifieds and use a shipping forwarder like shipito.com. I got myself a brand new ACT prolite flywheel for $250 landed last week.

[Mullensxxx]

someone should do a before and after video in reguards to how it revs/speeds in different gears ;)

[e240]

chriis2k should it be louder though?

e240 i emailed from the mfactory website, does that go to you lol, im looking at purchasing very soon and i saw on the website that there is a lighter flywheel too... would it be wise to swap the flywheel as well ? also is it shipped from australia or usa ?

Yes, it comes to me. Is this George?

[RIHIA]

Yes, it comes to me. Is this George?

yeah it is :) so do you have a paypal account or something? never bought through traders online before...

[e240]

Local Bank account - not an overseas account. This adds security for local buyers.

[Torell]

Im following this thread and its tearing me up. Someone north suburbs has to take me for a spin in their s2k with 4.4 or .7 so i can see.

[dlai5552]

Does anyone know how much diff oil is required for S2000?

btw, don't use OEM GL5 oil for your 4.77 FD. Worst decision ever, gonna go back to Castrol SAF-XA when my car sounded more like a daily, fml the whining is a killer.

[jooboo]

Pretty sure its just under a litre...

[AusS2000]

Yeah, 0.9 of a quart I believe. Just keep filling until some dribbles out, but a litre bottle will do.

[AusS2000]

BTW, I use Lubrication Engineers LE1605. It's expensive ($80 a litre) but got rave reviews from the US guys on S2ki.

[euromandeluxe]

Where do you source it from Aus?

[AusS2000]

I buy direct from Lubrication Engineers. They have offices in Sydney and Melbourne.

[dlai5552]

Lubeng.com.au!

[jooboo]

just got my final drive installed today, did you guys run them in at all?

[dlai5552]

Yes. 1000kms recommended by diff technics. That's driving soft, then change diff fluid then go hard!!!

[AusS2000]

The procedure I followed was:
fill with Castrol EP80/90
get on the F3 and drive for 100km varying between 95 and 100kmph constantly
drain diff and fill with good oil

[RIHIA]

so glad i saw this... im waiting for mine to come !

jooboo which ratio/ gearset did you get?

[jooboo]

hey i went with 4.77

[sambalam]

got a 4.77 currently occupying a bit of carpet in my room, while ive been happy with the modification so far happy to unbolt them from my carpet and sell them if some1 wants em

[DJDOC]

What would be the best FD setting for Wakefiled?

Thanks in advance.

[dlai5552]

What would be the best FD setting for Wakefiled?

Thanks in advance.

Apparently 4.77 if you stay NA.

[DJDOC]

Thanks dlai5552 :)

What brand would people recommend?

Tanks in advance again

[mattatnoosa]

^ and around how expensive is it to get installed by a mechanic? I dont think I have the expertise to install one... and with 4.77 what rpm are you when sitting on 100-110kms??

[vyets]

4000rpm at 100kms

and nearly 5000 at 120kms

get the kia 4.77

gotta get gb/diff specialist to install, rough price from 500+ gotta go around and find some quotes.

[S2kane]

Whats speeds are you doing in 1st and 2nd before shifting?
I hear you need to get the Kia final drives treated or something? correct?
And.. if I source it through Kia what oem parts do I need?

Cheers

[Traction Limited]

Hi Guys,
Where is the cheapest place to source the 4,77 from?
thanks

[mattatnoosa]

Can I get some Real life feedback from you guys? how is the 4.77 daily? and how bad is it on highway doing 110kms?

[sae]

^if you bothered to read 2 posts above yourself vyets has specified the approx RPM's at different speeds. Others have provided a practical example, that is to travel on the freeway in 5th gear. If it bothers you, then dont buy it. Learn to at least read the thread buddy.

[DJDOC]

Thanks vyets,

just a reall newbie question again, where can i sause kia 4.77 final gear?

Much appreciate in advance
Cheers

[jooboo]

i love my 4.77 for driving daily...highway isnt too bad, fuel consumption sucks though

[phatty]

I have 4.44 and loving it! Would probably love 4.77 more though but 4.44 is still good for me. Gave me a tad noticeable difference. Would like to experience 4.77 though. All in all I think final drive is the mod to do if you want a noticeable change, as everyone else has said

[connorling]

i have the KIA 4.77, no treatment nothing, just straight final drive stuff from KIA along with Honda seals and washers etc.

i think this is the first mod for S2k instead of intake exhaust, i got myself a PRM intake, T1R header, and buddyclub spec 4 single exhaust before i got my final drive changed, and i couldnt tell the difference with just the header exhaust and intake.

but once i put the 4.77 in, the car goes much smoother, pick up much faster, i contantly find myself shifting to higher gear when i m already in 6th.

went on a hill run with other s2k, and they were in 3rd to 4th when i was on 5th most of the time and i wasnt left behind.

went on the drag with 7k rpm launch, not issue with the diff.

i do scare of the diff fail since i havent treated it prior install.

but it has been fine for 3-4 months now.

dont waste money on intake and exhaust, go for the diff 4.77

[nigs]

i love my 4.77 for driving daily...highway isnt too bad, fuel consumption sucks though
4.77 much quicker?

[(Ryanswhites2k)]

Where did you guys source your seals and washer kit from and how much was that, also where did you Sydney guys get your install at and how much did you pay for it

[dlai5552]

In Sydney, the best place to do it is at Diff Technics, Kogarah. Installation costs $750 if you roll in there with your car, otherwise $400 if you bring just the diff in. You can get the OEM parts in a kit from Hardtopguy otherwise go to Honda and order the parts yourself, which is hard if you don't know the part numbers.

[(Ryanswhites2k)]

Thanks very much dlai. After reading this whole topic I can't work out if most people get the whine sound or if it's not installed correctly you get the sound, do you know.By the way how long do they need the car for if you drive it in and get them to look after the rest

[dlai5552]

It usually just takes a full day. And the whining I'm pretty sure comes from incorrect install, and also can depend on the oil used. I found that OEM oil gave a whine, but Castrol SAF-XA did not.

[mpetrossian]

I got my parts from Hardtop Guy. The kit was about half the price (delivered) against local sourcing.

http://hardtopguy.com/store/product.php?productid=534&cat=56&page=1

[Vicks]

Did you anything else other than than FD gears themselves?

Shim kit, side stub shaft seals, side bearings, etc?

[mpetrossian]

I only changed the parts that came in the Hardtop Guy kit.

The only other thing I did was to get the gears cryo treated, more as a precaution before the diff got assembled.

[(Ryanswhites2k)]

What's cryo treating the gears worth

[sho]

cryo and shotpeen parts for the diff from memory set me back about 170 bucks

[dlai5552]

What's cryo treating the gears worth

$60 otherwise $80 pick up and delivered. That's in Sydney

[(Ryanswhites2k)]

you'd be silly if you didn't get it cryo treated for that price

[thebob]

Cyro, unless you plan on building the motor and then decide you want to launch at 9000k every 30 seconds for 1 month then its useless. That was a direct quote from a diff shop i spoke to, they turned the work down because it wasn't needed.

[ducbui91]

hey guys im looking to get the 4.77. should i buy it from http://hardtopguy.com/store/product.php?productid=534&cat=56&page=1 ? i dont know much in this area of fields and need someone to shed some light for me as to what i need to get and how much it will cost all up.
cheers

[Forbiddenoob]

i got mine from kia $250 4.77 with the diff + $300 labour

[Parky]

i got mine from kia $250 4.77 with the diff + $300 labour


Hey mate can you give me the part numbers? Also where did you get it all installed ?

[aozora]

Nobody using the J's racing differential collar for the FD?

[AusS2000]

I'm using a custom machined stainless steel collar. Doesn't have the brand cache nor the price but as it's customised for the diff it actually does what it's supposed to do.

[aozora]

I'm guessing then you didn't need to add the collar shim?
Maybe I'll have a chat with the diff guy first...

Did you get yours through Puddy? I saw you post in some of his threads when I was doing some research :)

[AusS2000]

No, I had mine done by Advanced Gearbox and Diff in Seven Hills.

[ducbui91]

did anyones shipping costs for the final drive installation gear from hardtopguy cost around 130? seems a tad too much for small parts

[aozora]

did anyones shipping costs for the final drive installation gear from hardtopguy cost around 130? seems a tad too much for small parts
They're generally pretty expensive. I always buy from CFL Honda, for comparison, for $70 more in shipping, I got an AP2 differential housing sent too... go figure :P

[tamay_s2k]

Nobody using the J's racing differential collar for the FD?
i am in my built one. its for sale

[aozora]

i am in my built one. its for sale

So am I now... but not for sale :D

Just got my diff together and bedded in the LSD etc... 4.44R initial impressions?
Not a HUGE difference but it definitely feels there is better "pick up" over all. As in, it doesn't seem to "lag" down low in the rev range in comparison to before. And gets up to speed a tiny bit quicker but nothing head snapping haha.
Good option if you're using this in a daily or the like :) As for lap time difference, we'll wait and see...

[sae]

^i've had my 4.44 gears sitting in the garage for a while now....planning to swap it out when the clutch job gets done as well. I know they're complete different jobs but both require a certain break in period and if i can hit two birds with one stone then why not.

[pure_na]

did anyones shipping costs for the final drive installation gear from hardtopguy cost around 130? seems a tad too much for small parts

find the weight of what you're buying and size, go to usps, see how much it should cost you to ship it. As far as i know, he actually refunds any money he overquoted in shipping which i think is extremely honest of him. I'm dealing with him atm, i'll let you know whether he refunds any shipping costs :).