wheel allignments - what do you run and what is the car used for?

[exquisit]

i've search through here and i cant find any details on wheel allignments or any recommendations

so thought i would start a thread so people can post up their experiences good or bad with different allignment settings

[Bludger]

Do you want good turn in or good straight line stability?

If just a normal street setup is wanted then just get a normal alignment.

[exquisit]

well what is a normal allignment?

and what is one for good turn in?
and good straight line stability?

i wouldnt mind trying each different allignment out... thats the reason for the thread

[mugen_ctr]

normal alignment involves setting up the car how it was setup in the factory, oem specifications, neutral camber, for no camber wear on the tires etc etc

as far as camber wear, my car has been gettin camber wear on the tires, and its had 3 wheel alignment over the 2 years sigh! either there not doin there job or do i need adjustable camber arms to even it out? its been lowered, but not that much,. 2 finger gaps, so i doubt its that...

[V8KLLR]

as far as camber wear, my car has been gettin camber wear on the tires, and its had 3 wheel alignment over the 2 years sigh! either there not doin there job or do i need adjustable camber arms to even it out? its been lowered, but not that much,. 2 finger gaps, so i doubt its that...

Pot holes and crap Aussie roads will stuff your alignment eventually.

Well Toe out allows for better turn in whilst toe in privdes straight line stability but the downsides which outweights the upsides is toe in or out will eat your tyres up.
Negative camber is good for cornering. I have all four tires on -1 deg camber for street, because under hard cornering you gain camber, particularly in my vehicle which is bad. Dont go nuts and get like -72364923846 though. Castor, I dont really fiddle around with and it is whether you wheels are slightly infront or behind the engine. Imagine there is a line dissecting the wheel and the engine.

[exquisit]

normal alignment involves setting up the car how it was setup in the factory, oem specifications, neutral camber, for no camber wear on the tires etc etc

as far as camber wear, my car has been gettin camber wear on the tires, and its had 3 wheel alignment over the 2 years sigh! either there not doin there job or do i need adjustable camber arms to even it out? its been lowered, but not that much,. 2 finger gaps, so i doubt its that...

ah what is oem allignment settings though?and would this apply to a car that has been lowered with extended ball joints etc?

from my experience, camber doesnt kill tyres as much as toe settings, so perhaps check that out next time you get a wheel allignment


Pot holes and crap Aussie roads will stuff your alignment eventually.

Well Toe out allows for better turn in whilst toe in privdes straight line stability but the downsides which outweights the upsides is toe in or out will eat your tyres up.
Negative camber is good for cornering. I have all four tires on -1 deg camber for street, because under hard cornering you gain camber, particularly in my vehicle which is bad. Dont go nuts and get like -72364923846 though. Castor, I dont really fiddle around with and it is whether you wheels are slightly infront or behind the engine. Imagine there is a line dissecting the wheel and the engine.

yea...pretty much any bumps will put allignments out

i was going to run pretty much minimum camber
currently my mate gave me a wheel allignment which he puts on cars such as focus xr5s and other powerfulish fwds which he says stops them from torque steering
it has stopped the torque steer but on the straight it feels like it wants to dart either left or right, i forgot to ask for a print out but i have a feeling it is toed out
sound bout right?

[mugen_ctr]

OEM settings u can find under the service manual, if u can get a hold of it....as far as lowered cars go, i dont think any places take it into consideration at all, so best off getting new settings made up that suit the new suspension in place

Ill double check with the toe settings the next time im at the tire place :)

[Bludger]

Pot holes and crap Aussie roads will stuff your alignment eventually.

Well Toe out allows for better turn in whilst toe in privdes straight line stability but the downsides which outweights the upsides is toe in or out will eat your tyres up.
Negative camber is good for cornering. I have all four tires on -1 deg camber for street, because under hard cornering you gain camber, particularly in my vehicle which is bad. Dont go nuts and get like -72364923846 though. Castor, I dont really fiddle around with and it is whether you wheels are slightly infront or behind the engine. Imagine there is a line dissecting the wheel and the engine.
this is what I would have said if i wasn't so lazy.
+1
Increased Castor provides better straight line stability as well as improved steering response & feel.
You know when after you turn your steering wheel, it centers itself...... well that is the castor.

[Bludger]

focus xr5s and other powerfulish fwds which he says stops them from torque steering
it has stopped the torque steer but on the straight it feels like it wants to dart either left or right
xr5's are flawed from the mac strut front ends?

btw, what honda do you drive? Don't tell me you have the shitty honda's too?

[string]

Caster gives a steering effort proportional to the lateral force and gives no indication of the limit of the tyres. What you want to feel is called the 'tyre aligning torque'. The more caster you have, the harder it will be to discern the non-linear TAT.

[Bludger]

In a car like the DC2R, increased castor isn't so much a problem because there is ample feedback from the steering wheel.

[exquisit]

how do you pull more castor into the front?

car is a ek civic, but im sure the info here can apply to most of the fwd hondas on this forum

[Bludger]

EK = fail.

solid front LCA = no castor adjustment.

there may be inferior kits floating around though.

[exquisit]

how does dc2r hav more adjustability comapred to ek civic?
and what happens when you put a dc2r subframe into a ek?

[charliebrown]

Camber doesnt matter unless you've got like more than -2, around 1-1.5 is fine for street and won't affect tyre wear dramatically. Toe should be adjusted according to OEM specs which is what the alignment place will go by (they look up the specs for your car before they begin). Melbourne streets is absolute shit... my alignment should be way out by now even though i got it aligned like 2 weeks ago. Shitty designed train track crossings are enough to screw it. A report has some columns and tells you your initial and final measurements as well as the recommended specs so you know they've done their job properly.

I've got slightly more negative camber than the specs (cant be fixed without camber arms) but just got my toe adjusted (was WAY off before) to save the tyres a little. Imo for street keep it like OEM

[Bludger]

better rack ratio, bushes, etc.

I didn't say better stability, I said better feel and response.

Ek can be made just as good or better.

and yes, you can put in dc2r front xmember to utilize dc2r/eg two piece front LCA.

[Bludger]

Camber doesnt matter unless you've got like more than -2, around 1-1.5 is fine for street and won't affect tyre wear dramatically. Toe should be adjusted according to OEM specs which is what the alignment place will go by (they look up the specs for your car before they begin). Melbourne streets is absolute shit... my alignment should be way out by now even though i got it aligned like 2 weeks ago. Shitty designed train track crossings are enough to screw it. A report has some columns and tells you your initial and final measurements as well as the recommended specs so you know they've done their job properly.

I've got slightly more negative camber than the specs (cant be fixed without camber arms) but just got my toe adjusted (was WAY off before) to save the tyres a little. Imo for street keep it like OEM
It's not that easy to put your alignment out of whack.
I big put hole is enough to do it but just depends how careless you drive.
try slowing down a bit over the tracks. I always annoyed the cars behind me when I was in Melbourne over the train tracks.
You see all the company cars and fleet cars go over them at full speed. It's not just the alignment you're stuffing up.
avoid big potholes and bumps and it should last a while.

[charliebrown]

If you drive in springvale or springvale south in melbourne... you're fkd. there's like one lane and you'll hit at least 5 pot holes in a row. Why are they spending money making roundabouts in random places when these things are everywhere. Sigh...

[exquisit]

better rack ratio, bushes, etc.

I didn't say better stability, I said better feel and response.

Ek can be made just as good or better.

and yes, you can put in dc2r front xmember to utilize dc2r/eg two piece front LCA.

when you say dc2r/eg does this better subframe extend to normal dc2 front subframe setup?
ie. better rack ratio, etc?

[exquisit]

btw. thanks for all the replies
=)

[Bludger]

dc2/eg have same front xmember.

dc2r has diff rack.

[Bludger]

If you drive in springvale or springvale south in melbourne... you're fkd. there's like one lane and you'll hit at least 5 pot holes in a row. Why are they spending money making roundabouts in random places when these things are everywhere. Sigh...
so you slow down?
melbourne is good compared to sydney.

stop bitchin

[charliebrown]

^if you want a car pileup

[Bludger]

If you drive in springvale or springvale south in melbourne... you're fkd. there's like one lane and you'll hit at least 5 pot holes in a row. Why are they spending money making roundabouts in random places when these things are everywhere. Sigh...
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?47794-Vent-Little-things-that-bother-you.....

[exquisit]

dc2/eg have same front xmember.

dc2r has diff rack.

what is the rack ratios of dc2/eg and ratio of dc2r?
i assume dc2r rack will fit into a dc2/eg subframe?

[Mikecivic78]

@ Bludger. Charlie Brown will suck away all of your positive energy, stay away LOL (jokes:-p)

[Jomsy]

-2.5 camber front , -1.5 camber rear, 1mm/side toe in rear, 0.5mm/side toe front, max'd out castor, handles awesome and has little to no real effect on tyre wear

[exquisit]

thanks jomsy
any torque steer?and how much power roughly u make lol

[Bludger]

torque steer has little or nothing to do with alignment.

all front wheel drives will suffer.

[exquisit]

what is the rack ratios of dc2/eg and ratio of dc2r?
i assume dc2r rack will fit into a dc2/eg subframe?

anyone?

[Bludger]

dc2r rack compared to eg/dc2 = dc2r need less steering wheel angle to turn the road wheels.......

I would assume dc2r/dc2/eg are all interchangable.

[exquisit]

dc2r rack compared to eg/dc2 = dc2r need less steering wheel angle to turn the road wheels.......

I would assume dc2r/dc2/eg are all interchangable.

ah ok

do you have pics or links to this info?
coz all the research i have done so far in regards to rack ratios is that eg is one ratio and all dc2 is another ratio

[Bludger]

no, I just its not fun taking ps out of dc2r, unless you go for an eg rack.

[exquisit]

soz... i didnt understand ur last msg
=(
could you please rephrase it?

[Bludger]

to have less steering angle to turn the front wheels, you need to change the ratio. in doing so, not only will the benefit of less steering angle be required to turn the front wheels, you will also have the detriment of more effort needed to turn those wheels.

the people who take out their power steering (ps) tend to look for an EG rack or an actual non power steering rack. this is because the ratio requires much less effort needed to turn the wheel. but for example may require double the steering angle of a dc2r rack just to turn the same amount.

[exquisit]

gotcha... but im lookin for less turns lock to lock
which rack has that? and what is that ratio?

[Bludger]

i already told you which one

[Glocker]

to have less steering angle to turn the front wheels, you need to change the ratio. in doing so, not only will the benefit of less steering angle be required to turn the front wheels, you will also have the detriment of more effort needed to turn those wheels.

the people who take out their power steering (ps) tend to look for an EG rack or an actual non power steering rack. this is because the ratio requires much less effort needed to turn the wheel. but for example may require double the steering angle of a dc2r rack just to turn the same amount.

Does the DC2R steering rack have no PS or does it just have less lock-to-lock? I'm thinking of putting one in my EH9; miss the steering response of my Evo :(

And is it just plug and play? PS hose fits the D-series pump?

[Bludger]

less lock to lock

[liberx]

My wheel alignment for EG Civic:
Front Camber -2.5 deg
Rear Camber -1.5 deg
Toe Zero (I think)
Caster Est 3.5-4 deg (didn't get a final readout after shop had to re-install UCAs)

Use: Daily driver + track days
Handling: Excellent!

[exquisit]

thanks for that
=)

[Jomsy]

thanks jomsy
any torque steer?and how much power roughly u make lol

the front toe has totally eliminated torque steer, and im making just on 140fwkw's

[exquisit]

beauty
=)
i'll give your settings a go next time mate!