Too many cranks before start and fuel consumption

[charliebrown]

I apologise if this has been covered, did a quick search but would prefer to have a straight answer to my specific problem.

I've had my car for 6 months and when i just got it, it would crank once and start. Nowadays it's taking 3ish and sometimes even more, seems to be struggling to start. Would anyone be able to tell me what's going on?

And also my fuel consumption is now at 13-15L/100km even after replacing my broken thermostat. I thought changing it would let the car run at the right temp and fix the problem but it's still chewing hard. Now i've heard o2 sensors and fuel filters may be the culprit. Is there anything i can check myself without having to take the car to mechanics? Haven't got time and wallet getting real thin since i drive daily and tank only takes me 250km.

The car is 104xxx km, automatic, integra gsi. Heavy start-stop driving, giving it the occasional boot

Thanks for any help

[mugen_ctr]

this "Heavy start-stop driving, giving it the occasional boot"...

Have u done a service?

u already mentioned fuel filter, an o2, but also give it injector cleaner, give it some BP95 or 98 octane, that might improve ur mileage, but also change ur driving habits, that will most improve ur fuel mileage....

O2 sensor an fuel filter is easy to change, fuel filter just get it at repco, its like 1/3 of the price, and o2 sensor

As for changing em over, its relative straight foward, just crank the motor to remove all the fuel in the lines, so theres no pressure in the lines, than just unbolt away, and as for o2 sensor, heat up the manifold, wd40 spray it, soak it, than crack it open

[charliebrown]

All i've done since i bought the car is oil change and coolant change. Due for a minor 6 monthly service in June (probably delay til July since i got no time and money). I fill up BP ultimate ever since i've bought it. The car has not seen 91 or 95 from me.

[bennjamin]

Try new spark plugs

[charliebrown]

Any you recommend in particular? I don't know much about spark plugs but i've heard iridium is good or something? Only know of NGK brand

[najdi]

Bosch platinums ftw

[jeremydawg]

got a multimeter? theyre like $8 on ebay, $15 at autobarn. Can come in handy. check your battery, alternator.
can also be your starter motor.

To check your alternator using the multimeter do this... make sure your lights, cd player etc are turned off. Rev your car to around 2000rpm, set the multimeter to DC voltage attach your multimeter to the battery terminals (red-positive. black-negative). Should read at around 14volts. If it reads under 12volts your alternator is crap.


as above o2 sensor and fuel filter is a cheap and easy fix.

[bennjamin]

Spark Plug Part No.
Recommended Plug ZFR5F-11
ZFR5FIX-11

[jeremydawg]

prob dont get iridium... theyre great but pricey, its only a gsi. Maybe get bosch or NGK G-power

[dougie_504]

Get regular NGK's IMO. Iridium aren't worth the extra coin.

Bring your car around after exams, we'll take the plugs out and inspect/clean them. Will show you how.

[bennjamin]

if they are NGK coppers...dont clean them chuck them and replace with a new set. the part numbers i quoted above are from the NGK website - iridiums. You can get coppers for about $5-8 each. Part number is ZFR5F-11 I believe.

[Lukey]

dont get bosch

[u mad?]

why's that lukey?

[bennjamin]

why's that lukey?


if its changed every 10-15,000ksm like you should - there shouldnt be an issue ?!

[jeremydawg]

how can bosch be bad...its German. lols

[charliebrown]

I believe my car's spark plugs were changed 4000km ago by the dealer when they did major service.

[string]

I paid $2.50 each last time I bought NGK copper plugs. Definitely get them for a stock B18B.

OBD1 ECU has long term fuel adjustments. Maybe try resetting the ECU? (seach it)

My sister's GSi chewed fuel when the thermostat died. Pretty sure that it slowly got better after I replaced it.

[charliebrown]

I paid $2.50 each last time I bought NGK copper plugs. Definitely get them for a stock B18B.

OBD1 ECU has long term fuel adjustments. Maybe try resetting the ECU? (seach it)

My sister's GSi chewed fuel when the thermostat died. Pretty sure that it slowly got better after I replaced it.

Yeah i've resetted the ECU twice since thermo change. Once i let it learn to drive hard and then i did it again driving calmly. Nothing's changed.

string, what was your sister getting before and after thermo change? (fuel economy)

[string]

She was getting about 325km out of a tank now she gets about 400km (from 45L I believe?). Hers is manual, though. She definitely doesn't drive it economically :D

O2 sensor has massive influence on fueling when you're not foot to the floor so if it's borked it could be the culprit. No clue how to check it though, sorry.

The cold cranking worries me. Does the car go through coolant?

[charliebrown]

325 with broken thermo still hella good. I'd take that over my working thermo lol

[string]

Automatic definitely hurts it a bit. Heavy stop-start traffic can easily double your fuel consumption.

I don't mean to be a downer but there's just something about the GSi that makes it get bad fuel economy! Lol! I suspect that the lower (4.26) final drive doesn't help. I know it's a little bit heavier (the GSi), but I never got worse than 10L/100km when I had a stock B18A in my DA. It's difficult to keep all the variables equal though; everyone drives differently. I (and my sister) live in Newcastle. The traffic isn't so bad here, and I'm adept at avoiding it.

[charliebrown]

Yep, that was my reasoning for wanting a manual.

My drive to uni is about 10km, takes 30-40 minutes. Would that affect my fuel usage heaps? Still shouldn't be that high

[string]

Honestly, it's impossible to say for sure over the net. 30-40 minutes for 10km sounds pretty horrible and absolutely conducive to worse fuel economy, but exactly how much worse is hard to say.

If I were you I'd take up dougie_504's offer. An experienced eye is priceless.

[charliebrown]

She was getting about 325km out of a tank now she gets about 400km (from 45L I believe?). Hers is manual, though. She definitely doesn't drive it economically :D

O2 sensor has massive influence on fueling when you're not foot to the floor so if it's borked it could be the culprit. No clue how to check it though, sorry.

The cold cranking worries me. Does the car go through coolant?

It was chewing coolant for a few days after thermo change. It's alright now i think

[dougie_504]

Was just pushing the air out bro. Cold day, fan didn't come on, but now that it's worked it's way out and you've topped it up it'll be fine.

Driving 10km in 30-40 minutes is terrible, however if you were to drive longer distances on the freeway your longer gearbox ratios would be a God-send.


Could somebody please direct charliebrown and myself to the Integra workshop manual? I've never bothered looking for it lol. We'll inspect plugs in a couple of weeks, and check/clean O2 sensor.

In the meantime Pete just try to drive nicely, don't fang your car everytime you get moving again. Keep the throttle lowish so it doesn't rev over 2500 or 3000RPM. And at least the engine is running warm now - that's peace of mind for your internals :)

[sexy_shazam]

Woow im having the same symptoms and issue with my 97 civic cxi although my fuel consumption is 10.6L/100

[dougie_504]

Woow im having the same symptoms and issue with my 97 civic cxi although my fuel consumption is 10.6L/100


Yeah that's dog-balls. My '94 VTi is getting 8.5-9L/100 and I'm not even happy with that.

Your engine running cold all the time?

[charliebrown]

Andy help me find a cheap civic vtec. I want a cheap to run daily with some punch!

[dougie_504]

Cheap with punch...hmmm...maybe you should have bought a VTiR?

Check out EK4's bro. And burn your Integra otherwise you'll never get enough money for it lol

[sexy_shazam]

Yeah that's dog-balls. My '94 VTi is getting 8.5-9L/100 and I'm not even happy with that.

Your engine running cold all the time?

not all the time. My trips are mainly to and from school or mates house so around 4kms and to work twice or thrice a week which is around 7kms and to tafe 2 times a week which i think is around 15km all of these are one way. I think one of these weekends ill fill it up and go for a long high way drive to see if it makes a diffrence. I do give it a spirited drive now and again but only fill up with caltex 95 octane.

[Lukey]

why's that lukey?

cos ngk > bosch.



heres service manual for y'all

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DNNVFKSU

[mugen_ctr]

Andy help me find a cheap civic vtec. I want a cheap to run daily with some punch!

EG5 or EJ8, even though its SOHC, its still a good motor for what it is, an vtec

Fuel wise, average 10/100kms well for me that is, but thats with mods an that i find appauling, even after servicing spark plugs, filters changed an all....:/

stock they should b getting closer to 12/100kms

But as dougie said, EK4 or VTiR DC2, go DC2, better engine, better seats

[charliebrown]

Cheap with punch...hmmm...maybe you should have bought a VTiR?

Check out EK4's bro. And burn your Integra otherwise you'll never get enough money for it lol

Lol vtir is like extinct... Carsales cheapest one in vic is 15k looks like dick. Theres too many civics around... Got no clue which ones are which and what engines theyre running. Gsi with more ks than mine that are stock and ugly go for like 9-10k on carsales. Ive spent 13k so not too bad a loss.

[charliebrown]

not all the time. My trips are mainly to and from school or mates house so around 4kms and to work twice or thrice a week which is around 7kms and to tafe 2 times a week which i think is around 15km all of these are one way. I think one of these weekends ill fill it up and go for a long high way drive to see if it makes a diffrence. I do give it a spirited drive now and again but only fill up with caltex 95 octane.

Try bp ult or vpower bro. Heard caltex jizz in their fuel or something and make it not good

[ToF]

Could somebody please direct charliebrown and myself to the Integra workshop manual? I've never bothered looking for it lol. We'll inspect plugs in a couple of weeks, and check/clean O2 sensor.


Hey dougie,

A while back I grabbed a number of workshop manuals relating to my car and motor from some yank Spooner Tuner site (http://www.spoonertuner.com/) but it seems the webpage listing all the manuals (http://www.spoonertuner.com/manuals) is down right now throwing some error and lots of useless code.

Fortunately I had the direct links saved in history to be able to get the directory listing:
http://www.spoonertuner.com/media/downloadable/manuals/honda/
Integra is in this one - http://www.spoonertuner.com/media/downloadable/manuals/acura/

Hope that helps. Might be good to sticky the links or host it on ozhonda in case it gets taken down in the future?

[sexy_shazam]

Try bp ult or vpower bro. Heard caltex jizz in their fuel or something and make it not good

Ive tried bp 95 octane and fuel usage was the same but ever since ive used it the car takes one crank longer to start up but ill give it a go.

I heared that shell V power isnt the best and its a rip but ill still try it. Would running 98 in a stock civic be worth it though? wouldnt the engine ping?

Ive pretty much narrowed it down to 3 possibilities
1) short trips = high fuel usage
2) car is meant to use 91 octane and im running 95
3) car was sitting around in the dealer lot for to long and even though they serviced the car before giving it to me something has not been detected.

[sexy_shazam]

Andy help me find a cheap civic vtec. I want a cheap to run daily with some punch!

Why not something like a Prelude or accord ? I know they are more powerfull than a civic but not sure if they are more cheaper to run. I do hear the Vtir Accords like to drink fuel though. Cant confirm this as ive never owned one.

[dougie_504]

not all the time. My trips are mainly to and from school or mates house so around 4kms and to work twice or thrice a week which is around 7kms and to tafe 2 times a week which i think is around 15km all of these are one way. I think one of these weekends ill fill it up and go for a long high way drive to see if it makes a diffrence. I do give it a spirited drive now and again but only fill up with caltex 95 octane.

After 10min your car should be warm even on a cold day, and staying warm. Check this out for us.



Lol vtir is like extinct... Carsales cheapest one in vic is 15k looks like dick. Theres too many civics around... Got no clue which ones are which and what engines theyre running. Gsi with more ks than mine that are stock and ugly go for like 9-10k on carsales. Ive spent 13k so not too bad a loss.

VTiR there are loads of them dude, check here and FireSport - they're normally $7-9g for a decent example. DC2R's go for around the 15g mark. If you wanted a DC2R you could probably get one (which I just saw) on the road for around $11-12g.
EK4 is a '96-'00 Civic hatch (the shape after mine) with a B16A2 DOHC VTEC standard motor. Reasonably light and would have some good poke.

And those GSI's won't sell at that price.

[dougie_504]

Why not something like a Prelude or accord ? I know they are more powerfull than a civic but not sure if they are more cheaper to run. I do hear the Vtir Accords like to drink fuel though. Cant confirm this as ive never owned one.

Because neither is a true sports car. The Accord is a luxury car and the Prelude is a sports-luxury car. Both are a bit heavy IMO and not many came out with good/sporty engines.

Somebody will probably come along and start talking about how tuff the H22A and H23 engines are, but they're not built like the B's and K's at the end of the day.

[sexy_shazam]

Yup I can confirm that the car warms up to operating temperature after 10 mins of driving. Usually warms up a bit faster once i hit 60km/h.

I do agree that the civics are light. The day I got my civic i was giving it a bit of juice when the light turned green and it was a bit faster than my sisters 07 jazz which isnt bad considering the cars now 14 years old. Ahh if only you could get a 2011 non type R civic hatch.

[charliebrown]

I like the old gen preludes with the triangle looking taillights but never been a fan. Would like a euro but doesnt suit me, looks too old people.

Maybe cos I always set the kilometres to <150000km so I dont see them. too many dc2 and dc2rs been thrashed around. I can afford a dc2r or dc5r soon but I cant afford to fork out for insurance. I like eg hatch or ek coupes, not a fam of ek hatches tbh. You gotta link me to these 7-9k dc2s man, I must be blind

Someones gotta buy those overpriced gsis... I mean I bought mine for 10k and theres dumber people out there than me

[sexy_shazam]

I like the old gen preludes with the triangle looking taillights but never been a fan. Would like a euro but doesnt suit me, looks too old people.

I like the preludes but I also like how nimble a stock civic is plus i prefer smaller cars.

A family friend has an 87 or late 80's prelude and this thing has over 500,000kms on it and its on its original motor.

[ToF]

Hey dougie,

A while back I grabbed a number of workshop manuals relating to my car and motor from some yank Spooner Tuner site (http://www.spoonertuner.com/) but it seems the webpage listing all the manuals (http://www.spoonertuner.com/manuals) is down right now throwing some error and lots of useless code.

Fortunately I had the direct links saved in history to be able to get the directory listing:
http://www.spoonertuner.com/media/downloadable/manuals/honda/
Integra is in this one - http://www.spoonertuner.com/media/downloadable/manuals/acura/

Hope that helps. Might be good to sticky the links or host it on ozhonda in case it gets taken down in the future?
Hope I don't come across as some attention seeking douche, but the manuals here are pretty useful and maybe you guys missed this post in the heat of the discussion about a new car and new page. :)

[dougie_504]

Hope I don't come across as some attention seeking douche, but the manuals here are pretty useful and maybe you guys missed this post in the heat of the discussion about a new car and new page. :)

I did actually, missed the last two posts on that page haha. Thanks!

[charliebrown]

Lukey posted the service manual on the previous page as well incase you missed that. I'm on phone so i can't dl/view them

[beeza]

I apologise if this has been covered, did a quick search but would prefer to have a straight answer to my specific problem.

I've had my car for 6 months and when i just got it, it would crank once and start. Nowadays it's taking 3ish and sometimes even more, seems to be struggling to start. Would anyone be able to tell me what's going on?

And also my fuel consumption is now at 13-15L/100km even after replacing my broken thermostat. I thought changing it would let the car run at the right temp and fix the problem but it's still chewing hard. Now i've heard o2 sensors and fuel filters may be the culprit. Is there anything i can check myself without having to take the car to mechanics? Haven't got time and wallet getting real thin since i drive daily and tank only takes me 250km.

The car is 104xxx km, automatic, integra gsi. Heavy start-stop driving, giving it the occasional boot

Thanks for any help

Get a Mega Raizen,best product!

Will help a lot.

[charliebrown]

Get a Mega Raizen,best product!

Will help a lot.

Can't tell if you're serious or not... i can't seem to find much info on this 'mega raizin'?

[Lukey]

u spelt it wrong charlie?

[grifty]

raizin voltage stabiliser

[charliebrown]

Nah he did lol it's 'raizin' not 'raizen'. Just says its a voltage stabiliser and read some reviews and they say it improves throttle response etc. Seems more of a performance thing rather than economical. Big fkn price tag as well

[trism]

Don't bother with it. Its a gimic. just upgrade all the grounds in the engine bay.

Sent from my custard cannon like Peter North.

[dougie_504]

Don't bother with it. Its a gimic. just upgrade all the grounds in the engine bay.

Sent from my custard cannon like Peter North.


Would a bit of cleaning suffice? IE remove + sand and bolt back on? I do this just for general maintenance...

[beeza]

Yes awesome product,cost is 80 bucks.

PM me if interested and I can find a link for that price.

[bennjamin]

guys please keep it on topic - standard engine grounds are FINE. If they are old and or frayed - ofcourse a gay-raizin volt stabilizer is going to get results....but nothing over standard.

Anyway. OP - have you tried new spark plugs , retightened grounds etc ? Most of all the negative to the battery ground ?

[charliebrown]

guys please keep it on topic - standard engine grounds are FINE. If they are old and or frayed - ofcourse a gay-raizin volt stabilizer is going to get results....but nothing over standard.

Anyway. OP - have you tried new spark plugs , retightened grounds etc ? Most of all the negative to the battery ground ?

Spark plugs changed 4000km ago. Dunno what grounds are :confused:

[bennjamin]

Spark plugs changed 4000km ago. Dunno what grounds are :confused:

engine bay grounds - metal/copper cables tethered to various points on the engine to properly recirulate power back to the battery and complete a circuit. These are located on the gearbox , on the engines head , on the startermotor , and the thermstat housing etc. They look like brown wires connected to these areas....have alook and see if you can find the,m and make sure they are firmly attached.

[dougie_504]

Like the one on the thermostat I showed you mate... There's a few around the bay along the edges

[charliebrown]

Ohh reckon you could help me check them when i come over? I can do a quick runover on my own but honestly don't know what/where im looking for besides "copper wires"

[bennjamin]

Like the one on the thermostat I showed you mate... There's a few around the bay along the edges

dude - help the man he clearly has little clue. Best of luck OP working out your issue !

[funk99]

its probably cause of your stop and starting.
i drove on the calder freeway, half tank i got 300km outta it.
came back to melb and got 125 kms out of the other half.

but my fuel metres retarded. I'm on empty without the light lighting up and i got 15 litres left .

[charliebrown]

Yeah mines similar. First half of the gauge does twice as much kms as the last half and fuel light comes on around 36-37 (13L left). Whats your economy bro?

[dougie_504]

Yeah we'll do it when we check your plugs.