Removing power steering, manual rack needed?

[vtecing]

Im not going to run power steering on my track car. Just wondering if I can continue to use the power steering rack, or is it recomended that I use a manual rack. If I swap racks, do I need to swap collums as well?

What do all the guys that run H22 swaps do?

[bennjamin]

Just use your existing rack - remove all of existing piping and lines from the rack joint itself - then fashion up two fittments with a length of rubber hose from one side straight up to a T piece - then run another rubber hose from the other outlet to this T piece - now to bleed air from the system.
Jack the front of the car up
So both wheels can be rotated. Slowly pour ps fluid down this makeshit breather , while a friend turns the steering wheel to full lock back and forth to burp air from the rack and to displace that with fluid.
Finally run a short piece of the same hose on the last free connector of the T piece to a small filter. Make sure it's held up.

[vtecing]

So the third end which connects to the filter should vent to atmosphere?

[bennjamin]

yes - use a small inline fuel filter - the filter will capture any excess powersteering fluid that tries to escape under the pressures of the rack , and ofcourse let air freely displace back and forth without pulling gunk in.

Ill draw a quick image on paint in abit.

[crobaa]

So two lines come from the rack with a t piece in between, off this tee just a small piece of hose with a fuel filter on it? No tank or anything? Does this small hose need to be totally upright? I was looking at my ps rack today and can only see one fluid line from the rack to the pump. Where is the other point in the rack that is meant to go to the t piece?

[bennjamin]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/ccf2505201100000.jpg

guys its my own design used on a dozen cars in and around nsw and my previous two cars - done right it never leaks. Sure - you get over no PS but it does suit a purpose.

[vtecing]

Why does it need to be vented to atmosphere, can it not just be sealed?

[bennjamin]

it doesnt have to - but venting it creates the least amount of internal resistance , which increases the racks life and better feel.

[crobaa]

Sorry for being a noob but can you describe which 2 points on the rack the lines will connect to? I know one is the point that the line from the pump went to but don't know about the other one

[bennjamin]

there is two outlets on the rack joint base - one is a 14mm headed fasterner , the other is a 17mm fastener. When running ruuber hose from these Id just do the higher one as the straight up piece. Run the lower outlet to the T piece - it should bend around slightly as shown in that picture i roughly drew above.

[string]

The only part inside the rack that could be considered to be lubricated by the power steering fluid is the piston o-ring inside the power cylinder. If you are converting to manual this no longer serves any purpose and can be removed along with the valves inside the valve body. Remove this o-ring and the breather becomes redundant: there is nothing to cause internal pressure and have it affect your steering feel. The breather+fluid setup's only gain is that it might preserve that o-ring in the event that you both (a) don't remove it to begin with because (b) you want to return to power steering in the future.

[crobaa]

So just remove all valves, o ring and fluid then blank off the outlets on the rack?

[string]

You have to fully disassemble the rack to get to the piston and when you do you truly have a manual rack. Ben's method can be done without removing the rack from the car.

Have you felt the steering of a PS deleted 90-01 Honda before? For a track car, honestly, it's going to suck balls. You'll be worn out after one hot lap.

[dorikin]

The only part inside the rack that could be considered to be lubricated by the power steering fluid is the piston o-ring inside the power cylinder. If you are converting to manual this no longer serves any purpose and can be removed along with the valves inside the valve body. Remove this o-ring and the breather becomes redundant: there is nothing to cause internal pressure and have it affect your steering feel. The breather+fluid setup's only gain is that it might preserve that o-ring in the event that you both (a) don't remove it to begin with because (b) you want to return to power steering in the future.

Hey mate I'm going to do this to a spare steering rack I have but just wanna make sure I know which parts to remove.

"Piston O-ring inside the power cylinder" - Is this the O-ring pictured next to the Cylinder Housing?



"Valves inside Valve body" - Do I remove the Cut-off Valve and 4-way Control Valve in this diagram?



Thanks

[vtecing]

You have to fully disassemble the rack to get to the piston and when you do you truly have a manual rack. Ben's method can be done without removing the rack from the car.

Have you felt the steering of a PS deleted 90-01 Honda before? For a track car, honestly, it's going to suck balls. You'll be worn out after one hot lap.


why would it be any different from any other car with no p/s? Once you get some momentum it should be alright shouldnt it.

[crobaa]

I would have imagined it would only be crap to drive when dry steering or parking?

[string]

I concede that it depends heavily on your driving style and how you've got the car setup. It does get easier once you're moving but it's still not quite the same. You lose a lot of position control. It's different from "other" non-PS cars because they usually have a different steering ratio to compensate (or are RWD...). How many Honda track cars do you know of that don't have power steering? Ask around!

It should be said that by doing this, instead of the majority of the steering force being applied to the rack via the piston in the power cylinder, it's applied to the rack via the pinion gear. It might wear out faster... who knows. YMMV.

Dorikin: It's the little guy labeled "PISTON SEAL RING" to the left of the rack itself which is unsurprisingly labeled "STEERING RACK".

[nd55]

> I would have imagined it would only be crap to drive when dry steering or parking?

1) Don't drain the fluid!

2) Yes, parking is a B$%^H. Don't expect other members of the family to be happy with this.

3) Otherwise I quite like it. (Daily, street driven)

4) Manual racks use a different cross member, neither of which were imported to Oz.

[crobaa]

So just keep the rack stock and bypass the pump to the tank?

[bennjamin]

So just keep the rack stock and bypass the pump to the tank?

read this thread from the beginning



BTW guys.....let it be known that removing power steering is for showing off only. Yes - there is weight reduction to be had too - but it really isnt an advantage in any way.
I had this setup on a previous EG civic , for the time it suited - liked talking about it with mates etc. Did alright at the racetrack too. Engine bay looked cool and empty. But You get over it !

[string]

1) Don't drain the fluid!

Why not?

[crobaa]

There's multiple ways of removing power steering in this thread. On another note is it ok to keep stock ps set up
But relocate the tank elsewhere (down low), or does gravity play a part in it being mounted where it is?

[u mad?]

Why not?

yes why not?

if i don't intend to put the power steering in in the future and don't give a flying **** about the pump (think it was on its way out anyway hence why i took the belt off in the first place) will it be fine to drain it? maybe just keep a little bit left in there for lubrication?

anyone?

[u mad?]

yes why not?

if i don't intend to put the power steering in in the future and don't give a flying **** about the pump (think it was on its way out anyway hence why i took the belt off in the first place) will it be fine to drain it? maybe just keep a little bit left in there for lubrication?

anyone?
bump.

[crobaa]

Benjammin- when running the 2 lines from the rack too the t piece what material did you use? Did you get hard lines made up or get a screw in hose fitting?

[bennjamin]

Benjammin- when running the 2 lines from the rack too the t piece what material did you use? Did you get hard lines made up or get a screw in hose fitting?

I used the original fittings - cut about 1 inch on either hard line and simply welded a hose fitting to each. Used fuel line or compressor hose - works a charm

[crobaa]

I was just thinking the same thing, leave an inch or so on the original hard lines so the still bend upwards, but instead of welding I was thinking of just flaring the ends and clamping the hose on. With regards to what fuel fitter you used is one of those little clear ones with just an in & out on opposite ends?

[crobaa]

Testimonial to benjammins breather idea:

I removed my power steering about 2 weeks ago and drove with no breather set up or fluid in the rack at all. Dry steering was pretty hard but no harder than any other non ps car i've owned (7 cars). It actually had quite a firm resistive feel which I quite liked but im sure it would be have been hard to steer under hard braking. In saying that, braking hard and steering fast at the same time generally end in the front sliding for me anyway.

Today I've just installed benjammins breather idea and im quite amaze in the difference it has made. I'd say its mid way between having ps and having nothing at all. Other than dry steering, I find this setup is my faourite to drive with, even nicer than having power steering. I have only had it for a day though but am incredibly pleased with the results so far

[vtecing]

Good to hear! I will deffinatly give that a go

[V73C]

FUUUUUUUUUUU !!! thanks BEN !!! Ahhh so relieved to find this thread =3