Euro Accord - Bad Fuel Milage??

[Mugen_Euro]

Milage = 450km TOPS from 60L of 98 driving in a 2-3k rev range in my 03' Euro
WTF!
throw me ideas, i had honda do a diagnostic on it today and apparently its in mint condition, so the theory about oxy sensors being fouled is wrong....

any ideas people!?

[TheSaint]

heres an idea - make a better thread title lol

[NightKids]

I couldn't help but lol a lil

[Mugen_Euro]

Haha my bad... needed to rage

[charliebrown]

Haha this guy... your right foot! or someone is siphoning your fuel while you sleep

[hmetro24]

i see nothing wrong with that mileage. try injection cleaner or watever

[Mugen_Euro]

i see nothing wrong with that mileage. try injection cleaner or watever

mate an accord euro driven in that rev range should get 600+ km out of a tank... your trippin balls if you think otherwise... and because i drive in that rep range its not my right foot thats the problem. Ive tried injector cleaner and it hasnt done anything.

Ive done some more research and im thinking it might be the fuel pressure regulator??

[TheSaint]

have you modified the car at all? does it have I/H/E?
have you tried resetting the ECU?
have you put through any upper engine cleaner? (throttlebody/carby spray or subaru upper engine spray)
have you had the injectors serviced?
is it stop start driving or long roads?

alot of variables...

[Lukey]

auto or manual?

[charliebrown]

This is the guy who was redlining his auto to 80km/h on 1st lol

[hmetro24]

Same thread same person months ago (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?136930-400km-outa-a-euro-cl9...-is-this-normal)

[Mugen_Euro]

i think its fair to say my car hasnt hit the redline in a fair while, so its not my right foot ppl....
car is auto
only has extractors on it now, intakes off, ecu has been reset i have enough air in my tyres, i run on 98 and have tried 95 makes no difference...
not too much start stop, i live in the SE suburbs, id say its a fair mix of start stop and long roads.
havent used upper engine cleaner before.. never heard of it... but i have tried the injector cleaner and its fair to say it did nothing at all
im assuming the injectors were looked at in the 100k service but i didnt have the car back then, its done 140k and its been serviced every 10k.
honda dealer said to book an appointment and theyll have a look at the fuel presure regulator but its gona set me back a bit, just wanted to know any other reasons this may happen

[TheSaint]

is the vafc still hooked up?
that and i/h/e will bring ur fuel economy down

but what you are getting sounds about right for a lightly modded euro - its a 2.4 not a 1.8

[aaronng]

Milage = 450km TOPS from 60L of 98 driving in a 2-3k rev range in my 03' Euro
WTF!
throw me ideas, i had honda do a diagnostic on it today and apparently its in mint condition, so the theory about oxy sensors being fouled is wrong....

any ideas people!?
A fouled O2 sensor (primary or secondary) doesn't trigger a CEL code. You won't be able to tell until you clean the sensor or replace it. Not sure how you would clean it though. I don't think it would survive an ultrasonic bath.

[Fredoops]

1. Pull out vtec/vfac controller.
2. Put factory airbox back in with clean air filter (a lot of people suffer worse milage from SRI's in warm climate)
3. Restore factory ecu settings.
4. Replace the o2 sensor again just for good measure
6 pump up tyres
7 check what engine oil car is using, thick oil = worse milage

Rev doesn't have as much to do with gas milage as you think, you could rev low but engine is told to pump a lot of petrol into the cyliner... You'd still get bad comsumption.

[Indie]

Redline!

[gumus89]

is the vafc still hooked up?
that and i/h/e will bring ur fuel economy down

but what you are getting sounds about right for a lightly modded euro - its a 2.4 not a 1.8

13 L/100kms does not sound right. I get 8.5L/100kms for a 2.2.
If a 4.0L falcon can get 10L/100 then 1 2.4L Honda should be able to also.

Vafc will only have an effect when the throttle is at high percentage. Otherwise the ecu isnt affected.

[TheSaint]

mods = bad fuel consumption
i/h/e will put a dent in it

most guys that i know with lightly modded h22 (BB6 VTIR/ATTS) get around 10-13L/100kms
i dont know what your doing to ur lude to get such good milage

Prelude VTIR from factory:
Fuel Urban (l/100km) 10.5
Fuel Extra Urban (l/100km) 8.0
Fuel Combined (l/100km) 8.9

Accord Euro from factory:
Fuel Combined (l/100km) 9.1

one of the older engineers at work has a brand new 4.0lt XR6 FG with intake and muffler kit
and he gets like 14-16L/100km country driving

Ford Falcon FG XR6 from factory:
Fuel Urban (l/100km) 14.6
Fuel Extra Urban (l/100km) 7.2
Fuel Combined (l/100km) 9.9

as soon as the car leaves the factory the milage will start getting worse
mods and different servicing and parts will also effect it

an ecu that has bad habbits will also take a while to bring back around

it also depends on the fuel used and where it comes from
so many variables...

[gumus89]

My 8.5 L/100kms is also in town only. I havent seen better on PA.

I also dont see people with healthy ludes getting more than 11 either. Its all about how you drive. If you gun it all the time then its expected.
An accord euro driving extremely sedately even with very slight mods should not be that high. Thats assuming a healthy engine.

[TheSaint]

well im stumped than lol
blown headgasket? - got any oil leaks?

[Mugen_Euro]

Mate i can tell u now what im getting is not good for the two mods i have. The vafc was tuned but the tuner said he couldnt do much with it as the euros computer would revert any changes to the fueling and air ratios...
400-450 is not reasonable for my cars health and mods and I KNOW BECAUSE I DONT KNOW ANYONE WITH A MODDED EURO GETTING THESE FIGURES EXCEPT ME

i have a couple of friends with Intake and headers same car, same year, getting close to 650 every tank, and i know their alot more rev happy than me.
my oil is changed every 5000 witht the filter me and dad do it ourselves unless its the 10k service time, we use the oil recommended by supercheap for my cars mileage - no oil leaks either.
tyre pressure is fine, tyre tread is questionable XD
Air filter IS STOCK and i have changed the filter 2 times in the last 3 months... no diference their
either way its not bad enough to loose me 250km a tank

Be realistic guys their is a bigger problem and its not any of them, and i dont see how a vafc could hurt my mileage that much when it basicaly couldn't change anything to begin with???

PS. Not coughing up another 400 to replace an 02 censor.... and i m not realy ready to hit up the scrappers to find one, and if it was fouled shouldnt it show up on the honda diagnostic?

[Fredoops]

I blame the vfac if it's still on the car, might be a bad tune.

[awaiken]

Do you roll around with your Air Con or heater on?

[Mugen_Euro]

aircon never, heater sometimes, still 250km drop form aircon/heater? for real?

[Mugen_Euro]

one of the older engineers at work has a brand new 4.0lt XR6 FG with intake and muffler kit
and he gets like 14-16L/100km country driving

Ford Falcon FG XR6 from factory:
Fuel Urban (l/100km) 14.6
Fuel Extra Urban (l/100km) 7.2
Fuel Combined (l/100km) 9.9


I thought most v6's are more economical than 4's like ludes and euros on long stretch constant high speed roads like country roads especialy the newer cars... =/

[npcan2]

I could almost guarantee that if you revert the car back to stock your mileage will return to normal. 13L /100kms is normal for a lightly modified euro.
Also, driving at 2-3k rpm isn't always a good thing. If you live in the SE suburbs of Melbourne, it's not a flat area and Low RPM and heavy throttle position will drink the fuel. Try holding your gears longer (it may sound counter intuitive, but it may help)
It also appears in your display picture that you have an after market bodykit. (increasing drag)

I'm not saying that this WILL give you 8l/100km.. But I can guarantee if you do all of these things, your milage will improve.

Also, don't measure by 'a tank', measure L/100km. The fuel light comes on in the euro with 10L left in the tank.

[aaronng]

Mate i can tell u now what im getting is not good for the two mods i have. The vafc was tuned but the tuner said he couldnt do much with it as the euros computer would revert any changes to the fueling and air ratios...
400-450 is not reasonable for my cars health and mods and I KNOW BECAUSE I DONT KNOW ANYONE WITH A MODDED EURO GETTING THESE FIGURES EXCEPT ME

i have a couple of friends with Intake and headers same car, same year, getting close to 650 every tank, and i know their alot more rev happy than me.
my oil is changed every 5000 witht the filter me and dad do it ourselves unless its the 10k service time, we use the oil recommended by supercheap for my cars mileage - no oil leaks either.
tyre pressure is fine, tyre tread is questionable XD
Air filter IS STOCK and i have changed the filter 2 times in the last 3 months... no diference their
either way its not bad enough to loose me 250km a tank

Be realistic guys their is a bigger problem and its not any of them, and i dont see how a vafc could hurt my mileage that much when it basicaly couldn't change anything to begin with???

PS. Not coughing up another 400 to replace an 02 censor.... and i m not realy ready to hit up the scrappers to find one, and if it was fouled shouldnt it show up on the honda diagnostic?
Then you can test by removing the VAFC and reconnecting the wires that were cut. My CL9 Euro has I/H and I get 8.5 L/100km on combined driving (M4 from Homebush to Propect and then into Blacktown). When on pure city driving in the Eastern suburbs, it was 10.5 L/100km. I did the Sydney-Melbourne trip a few times and got 7 L/100km on those.

[Mugen_Euro]

I could almost guarantee that if you revert the car back to stock your mileage will return to normal. 13L /100kms is normal for a lightly modified euro.
Also, driving at 2-3k rpm isn't always a good thing. If you live in the SE suburbs of Melbourne, it's not a flat area and Low RPM and heavy throttle position will drink the fuel. Try holding your gears longer (it may sound counter intuitive, but it may help)
It also appears in your display picture that you have an after market bodykit. (increasing drag)

I'm not saying that this WILL give you 8l/100km.. But I can guarantee if you do all of these things, your milage will improve.

Also, don't measure by 'a tank', measure L/100km. The fuel light comes on in the euro with 10L left in the tank.

I pump in around 60 litters ever time so i use 60 liters and get 450 so im getting about 13.4l/100km which is terible and im still yet to find a fellow eurpo driver lightly moded that gte sthese figure.
i have tried driving a bit harder, and alot harder but ive found i get slightly more driving the way i do, and im not heavy on the foot when im in this rev range, the pedal is bearly beig pressed.

i know as ive said people with Intake and headers getting way more than me, and they drive their car alot harder than me so...
i want to reasure u my figures ARE NOT NORMAL.

[Mugen_Euro]

Then you can test by removing the VAFC and reconnecting the wires that were cut. My CL9 Euro has I/H and I get 8.5 L/100km on combined driving (M4 from Homebush to Propect and then into Blacktown). When on pure city driving in the Eastern suburbs, it was 10.5 L/100km. I did the Sydney-Melbourne trip a few times and got 7 L/100km on those.

should try this, but not sure how too ><
and wont i loose what ever tune i had if i disconect it?

[charliebrown]

Hmm... if we were to assume your car and my car are both running fine, then your fuel economy makes sense with mine! I'm getting 11L/100km driving a 1.8 so your 2.4L getting 13.4? :D nah probs not

[Fredoops]

Restore.ecu.to.factory.

[Mugen_Euro]

Hmm... if we were to assume your car and my car are both running fine, then your fuel economy makes sense with mine! I'm getting 11L/100km driving a 1.8 so your 2.4L getting 13.4? :D nah probs not
yo how u driving urs man?
is ur car healthy?
did u go to honda liek i sed they actualy didnt charge me for mine coz i got it done with the recall thingy

[charliebrown]

Granny driving gets me 11L/100km bro. We both driving the same roads im guessing. My car is running perfectly as far as i can tell... no dash lights, no leaks etc

Nah didnt go honda, its exam time lol

Do you ever think it's just the roads in SE? if i was to do freeway driving like a lot of the guys on here, i'd be getting 450-500 on a 40L tank easy. too much stop start

[Indie]

Restore.ecu.to.factory.T.h.i.s.

[npcan2]

With injen intake, 18" CTR wheels, Weapon-R headers, Fujitsubo exhaust and a Haltech piggy back ecu, I get 12.5-13l / 100kms... tbh, it sounds at the high end of normal, but still normal.

[Fredoops]

With injen intake, 18" CTR wheels, Weapon-R headers, Fujitsubo exhaust and a Haltech piggy back ecu, I get 12.5-13l / 100kms... tbh, it sounds at the high end of normal, but still normal.
Was your ecu mild or aggressive tune?

Cause I heard a mild Hondata tune should actually help mileage because of the improved response lower end and car runs leaner.

[npcan2]

Was your ecu mild or aggressive tune?

Cause I heard a mild Hondata tune should actually help mileage because of the improved response lower end and car runs leaner.

I'm not too sure man, I'm running 144kw atw though. When I wanna drive nice and baby the car I can get 11l/100kms in suburban traffic, around 7-8l/100 on freeways.

[Fredoops]

I'm not too sure man, I'm running 144kw atw though. When I wanna drive nice and baby the car I can get 11l/100kms in suburban traffic, around 7-8l/100 on freeways.
If your car I a manual I'd say it's an aggressive tune. Still good tho.

[npcan2]

yep, its a manual. Good tuners at revzone in Melbourne. A bit pricey, but they know their honda's

[gumus89]

I blame the vfac if it's still on the car, might be a bad tune.

This reply is to every post you make about VAFC's.
VAFC's can only adjust the fuel when the ecu is in OPEN LOOP. This is because when its in CLOSED LOOP the ecu will fight any tune you try to make, essentially making no difference.
When he is driving with low throttle it is CLOSED LOOP and as such the VAFC has no ****ing effect.
Google it if you dont believe me.
I dont understand why you would make such passionate comments about something you dont actually understand.

[Fredoops]

This reply is to every post you make about VAFC's.
VAFC's can only adjust the fuel when the ecu is in OPEN LOOP. This is because when its in CLOSED LOOP the ecu will fight any tune you try to make, essentially making no difference.
When he is driving with low throttle it is CLOSED LOOP and as such the VAFC has no ****ing effect.
Google it if you dont believe me.
I dont understand why you would make such passionate comments about something you dont actually understand.
We're assuming the VAFC was actually tuned correctly.... I'm pretty sure APEXi VAFC has "Hi/Lo" throttle setting menu ain't it? Besides, Accord Euro is Drive By Wire, unlike the Prelude, it's well known OBD2 scantools or piggyback systems have trouble registering the correct throttle position in a DBW system....

Even if vafc only will work fully work in an open-loop situation (Providing the V-afc actually know what is WOT in a DBW system..... and thats a big IF), it doesn't mean what it does at closed loop have no effect on ECU at all, there's examples of vafc that got confused by the DBW and functioning as if WOT when throttle is only at 70%.


Troubleshooting in itself is a process of elimination, the OP's other thread about fuel consumption, apart from driving style, VFAC is the only variable left, and vfac is only as good as the person who tuned it and only works if DBW doesnt confuse the shit out of it. I've personally seen some shocking tunes with Apexi vafcs after the driver spent hundreds on tuning alone.

Take the Wisdom from a post to another forum:

Best way to tune a VAFC is to take it, unplug it, and throw it out your window while moving at a very high rate of speed.

[gumus89]

Fantastic!
I can accept when ive overlooked something!

Is it not the ecu that knows when to go from closed to open loop depending on throttle position etc.
Why wouldnt the piggy-back ask the ecu what the throttle position is instead of try to work it out itself?
I guess im taking it as if the tuner knew what he was doing seeing as he told him that there will be no effect at low throttle.

Anyways, there are other possible reasons for the ecu to be running in open loop all the time which is a good possibility.
MAP, IAT, ECT, O2 sensor. Whatever is applicable to the Euro.

[Fredoops]

Snip.

All I can say is.... Consider yourself lucky you have a Prelude!:thumbsup:
Less electronic thingy to worry about

[gumus89]

Not to mention its sexy as!

[Mugen_Euro]

So fuel pressure regulator guys?

[Fredoops]

The general consensus... vfac

[Nepolian]

Then you can test by removing the VAFC and reconnecting the wires that were cut. My CL9 Euro has I/H and I get 8.5 L/100km on combined driving (M4 from Homebush to Propect and then into Blacktown). When on pure city driving in the Eastern suburbs, it was 10.5 L/100km. I did the Sydney-Melbourne trip a few times and got 7 L/100km on those.


Restore.ecu.to.factory.


The general consensus... vfac

There's a common theme here!

[gumus89]

Can you turn the thing off while saving the previous settings?
Or any other way to save the settings but return it to stock?

[Mugen_Euro]

The general consensus... vfac
is it true that changes to your fueling from a piggyback revert back to stock settings with k-series?

[Fredoops]

is it true that changes to your fueling from a piggyback revert back to stock settings with k-series?

In theory yes, but i'd suggest you look up the manual .

[adu]

Hey all,

I have an auto euro luxury and I'm getting 440km out of the tank. I do alot of stop starting as I live in the city, very rarely freeways. My car is absolutely stock with 61km.

I changed my intake fuel filter recently and it's done nothing to it aswell.

I have no intake or tune done to the car.