B16 idle issue after conversion

[blastnpast]

Hi,

I have recently converted my d16y4 ek Gli into a b16a2 which came out of an em1

My problem is that when the car is idle it revs constantly from 1,100 RPM to 2,000 RPM.

Has anyone had this issue?

Thanks in advance Ozhonda!

[TbM]

Usually hunting/high idle is caused by either vacuum leaks, Dirty/broken IACV(Idle Air Control Valve), Improperly adjusted Idle screw Or on some cars the FITV needs to be readjusted or replaced.

Have you checked any of these yet?

[blastnpast]

Usually hunting/high idle is caused by either vacuum leaks, Dirty/broken IACV(Idle Air Control Valve), Improperly adjusted Idle screw Or on some cars the FITV needs to be readjusted or replaced.

Have you checked any of these yet?

The idle screw has been adjusted, as I look in the most recent section of this thread I'm not the only one whom has issues with the hunting idle. It gets pretty frustrating because often it is not evident then other times it happens at every set of traffic lights or when your car is in a parked location.

[TbM]

Hunting idle is quite common, I usually find if i check/clean or replace those things i pointed out the idle will be fixed.

I did a quick search for you and found some DIY's from members on this site for the IACV(http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?4693-IACV-clean-check-!&highlight=fitv) and FITV (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?64161-DIY-FITV-removal-clean-adjustment-B16a&highlight=fitv+b16a). Google how to check for vacuum leaks.

Edit: I usually use Subaru Upper engine cleaner to clean IACV's as it seems to work better than throttle body cleaner

[blastnpast]

Hunting idle is quite common, I usually find if i check/clean or replace those things i pointed out the idle will be fixed.

I did a quick search for you and found some DIY's from members on this site for the IACV(http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?4693-IACV-clean-check-!&highlight=fitv) and FITV (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?64161-DIY-FITV-removal-clean-adjustment-B16a&highlight=fitv+b16a). Google how to check for vacuum leaks.

Edit: I usually use Subaru Upper engine cleaner to clean IACV's as it seems to work better than throttle body cleaner


Thanks alot for your info and help I will begin my journey to eliminating the issues which cause the stupid thing

[TbM]

No worries always glad to help.

Basically the cause is something letting too much air into your intake manifold when your throttle plate is fully closed, weather it be a Vacuum leak, Idle screw, IACV or FITV just need to work out which is the problem and fix it. A good clean will usually fix the IACV and FITV but if the problem persists they may be faulty and require testing to see if they need replacing.

[bennjamin]

Generally when a motor sits for some time , gunk deposits in the FITV or icav.
Your b16a2 motor has these located under the throttle body - clean it out with some good carby cleaner hoping to dislodge crap inside. Worse case , get a new one.

Do NOT adjust the idle screw

[blastnpast]

Generally when a motor sits for some time , gunk deposits in the FITV or icav.
Your b16a2 motor has these located under the throttle body - clean it out with some good carby cleaner hoping to dislodge crap inside. Worse case , get a new one.

Do NOT adjust the idle screw

The idle screw has already been adjusted from the ECU installer so that idea is a little late lol.. I will defiantly check it out and I was given a guide in a few posts above to check and clean it up.

Thanks for your support

[bennjamin]

yeah touching the idle screw should never be done lol - could be everything out of whack.
Not sure if the EK FITV is user-cleanable tho , it might be a sealed unit. Have alook it might have special TORX or similar fasteners. you should be able to remove these , take it apart then spray a good amount of carby cleaner inside and scrub it up abit freeing up the piston/valve inside.

[dougie_504]

The idle screw is best left to tuners, not randoms who think it's fine because the idle is stable all of a sudden. But if your's was done by a proper tuner it should be fine.

I'd start with the IACV because it's very easy. Two bolts, two hoses and then hit it with carby cleaner. Then attempt FITV.

[blastnpast]

Thanks for all the posts back I will be trying out some solutions when I get a minute free! It doesnt affect the performance anyhow which is great just uses more fuel as it idles/revs on the spot lol

[blastnpast]

I just had a thought! Not sure if this would affect the idle issue but I remember when I had my d series motor that the accelleration cable was tightened due to extremely low revs (the cable isn't tight at all and has slack in the cable)

I am going to adjust and put it back to normal tonight and see if it make it any better

(seeming as the new engine was installed and this hunting wasn't happening when the engine was installed in the old
Car I am
Going to test the cooling system and bleed the radiator) if this doesn't work I will be checking out the FIV if the issue isn't fixed I will spray carby cleaner and clean out the IACV

[B16EG]

Slight relation in questions. When adjusting the idle screw or ignition timing is there an earth to put the ECU into learn mode?

[blastnpast]

Crap I took a hard look in my engine bay and there was a vaccume which connects to the air intake which didn't have a pop connected to it, is anyone able to get some
Images of the intake valve for me so I might see where the missing link is :) I need photos of the throttle body section & all connecting pipes

[blastnpast]

if anyone could grab a detailed photo of where the pipe which connects to the top inlet valve (circled on image below, b16a motor) on the throttle body goes to that would be much appreciated lol

http://tapatalk.com/mu/01282a68-a87e-4faa.jpg

[blastnpast]

Took some
Steps yesterday:

Remapped ECU (didn't do much may have made it worse)

Sprayed throttle body cleaner in throttle body-not an evident fix

Replaced thermostat- car now stays hot when it should, did nothing towards idle issue

Anyone got other solutions?

[TbM]

If you have checked or fixed the 4 things i mentioned before and ruled them out as the cause id probably test the map sensor and/or TPS with a multi meter and make sure they are working within honda specs and reciveing the correct voltage to the plugs.

[blastnpast]

If you have checked or fixed the 4 things i mentioned before and ruled them out as the cause id probably test the map sensor and/or TPS with a multi meter and make sure they are working within honda specs and reciveing the correct voltage to the plugs.

Thanks again mate! The next day off I really want to get into my throttle body and clean the thing up! If I give it an ultimate clean then I will be able to rule that one out! Testing the map sensor isn't to hard as the sensor is located ontop of the throttle body? Please confirm if this is correct mate :)

(may my idle issue be cause by the ECU?)

[TbM]

Yeh im 99% sure its on the top of the b16 throttle body and your TPS should be on the side of the throttle body, ill check my manual n send you a pic.

I have heard of faulty ecu causing idle/running issues but i dont think thats a common cause and im not sure how to test ecu's sorry, havent had to fix an ecu yet so havent bothered learning lol.

[blastnpast]

Yeh im 99% sure its on the top of the b16 throttle body and your TPS should be on the side of the throttle body, ill check my manual n send you a pic.

I have heard of faulty ecu causing idle/running issues but i dont think thats a common cause and im not sure how to test ecu's sorry, havent had to fix an ecu yet so havent bothered learning lol.


Yeah I don't know about the ECU but I got a feeling the ECU is alright as the chip has been modified. After all things have been fixed I will check the ECU again but for now I'm gonna try my luck and replace throttle body or atleast give it an ultimate clean up!! Looking for 68mm throttle body if anyone has one

[blastnpast]

Removed the TPS sensor & cleaned out the Throttle position mechanism which was clean already along with cleaning up the throttle body and butterfly. Was hoping this would fix my idle issue but sadly it didn't, it still revs the same (annoying as anything)

[blastnpast]

I changed my idle motor last night and still the issue is arising, My mechanic switched over a few plugs (electrical system) and the idle issue went away which was weird he seems to think my issue is caused by faulty wiring harness or incorrect locations this could be the cause as the engine conversion was fresh!

[blastnpast]

Scenario of what is happening:

When first start, idle is 1,100 and stays then does not fluctuate, after moving the idle begins to fluctuate between 1,500-2,200. If car turned off when fluctuating idle comes back to 1,500 then suddenly drops down to 1,100

[TbM]

What plugs did he switch? You can check for inncorrect plug locations quite easily just get a wiring diagram or a workshop manual and check the wire colours on the plug match up with the sensor your connecting it too.

Your idle is quite high are you sure your throttle plate is fully closed at idle and you have no vacuum leaks?

What speed does your car idle at if you disconnect the IACV while its warm and running? if it stalls restart the car with the throttle slightly open and stablize the rpm to 1000 then slowly release the throttle untill it idles. check the idle speed and let me know. reset the ecu to clear the code when your done.

[beeza]

Have you adjusted the fitv? it might need replace i feel that it's that. Also have you changed the intake manifold or Throttle body this is a process of elimination

But heres an old post Before i edited it, i didn't want to confuse ya.

I know the problem U are having.

Timmy has the same problem in his car and it's annoying as.

I just don't know the exact solution.

I had it in my car but after tinkering around it went away.It was the FITV on mine more than anything else.

Timmy's comes and goes but we never knuckeled down to fix it yet.He says there's no FITV on his which I'm yet to investigate.

I believe it's either air getting in the tb or IM somewhere or it's electrical.

It can be a combination of things too and in Honda's this can certainly be true.

I had all these issues and replaced or made sure everything is working properly,like from factory.

The 02 sensor can be replaced too if it hasn't been yet.

Without the car here it's hard...we were gonna attack this issue soon.

But I am leaning towards the ecu or electrical as his ecu is chipped too.

But before U take that on U can check:

vacumn leaks
replace 02 sensor (would be a good thing anyways)
calibrate tps
make sure the tb butterfly plate is sealing properly,U can undo those 2 screws and adjust it to seal
make sure spring on tb behind rotor is not worn and therefore the tb is not closing properly,if it is,replace OR cut and make it more torqued
clean where the accelertaor cable runs on the tb rotor cause that can cause sticking
clean where the tb butterfly plate seals in the tb as this can cause the plate to be slightly open.

Do all that,then at least U have eliminated em' and learnt something.

But the rhythmic groove that the engine makes when it happens,makes me lean towards an electrical issue,maybe ecu.

The surging it does,does not seam mechanical.

It feels electrical.



That's the best I can do atm mate.

If I learn more I'll let U know and if U do,let us know!

[beeza]

if anyone could grab a detailed photo of where the pipe which connects to the top inlet valve (circled on image below, b16a motor) on the throttle body goes to that would be much appreciated lol

http://tapatalk.com/mu/01282a68-a87e-4faa.jpg

The top Hose is a vacumn hose that goes to the fuel evaporation cannister which U can just rip out!

U can put a screw in there like Timmy and I have done or leave it how it is.

Either way,the aim is to get it to idle smoothly.

So obviously we will take the screw out and see if that fixes it.

[TbM]

The top Hose is a vacumn hose that goes to the fuel evaporation cannister which U can just rip out!

U can put a screw in there like Timmy and I have done or leave it how it is.

Either way,the aim is to get it to idle smoothly.

So obviously we will take the screw out and see if that fixes it.
IIRC the cannister has 2 vaccum lines going to it and one line to the fuel system, there is the one you have pointed out and there is one on the intake manifold,wouldnt you need to block both these off if you removed the cannister and depending on the screw your using it may not be sealing completely, if you have nothing else to use id atleast put a little silicone or something on the screw to try and get it sealed nicely. ive included a pic of the top of my canister with the lines labeled. The intake manifold one goes to the back of the manifold on the d series, not to sure if/where it is on the b series but should be noticable.http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/TbMindustrys/IMAG0747.jpg

[anjin]

I've done that. The throttle cable holds the engine revs a bit high, and the ecu tries to lower the revs via the EACV but everytime the ecu relaxs, up it goes on the throttle cable.

Still check out the others. And remember to give the eacv a light lubrication after cleaning so it can move easily.

[blastnpast]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys I am gonna try and eliminate most problems
Tomorrow and hope for a Better b16a future lol.. Once this issue is fixed on come the mods

I will try all of the given examples and if I find the fault I will definitely post it up! Once again thank you for all the support

[beeza]

IIRC the cannister has 2 vaccum lines going to it and one line to the fuel system, there is the one you have pointed out and there is one on the intake manifold,wouldnt you need to block both these off if you removed the cannister and depending on the screw your using it may not be sealing completely, if you have nothing else to use id atleast put a little silicone or something on the screw to try and get it sealed nicely. ive included a pic of the top of my canister with the lines labeled. The intake manifold one goes to the back of the manifold on the d series, not to sure if/where it is on the b series but should be noticable.http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd458/TbMindustrys/IMAG0747.jpg

Yes that's right,just cut the hose on the back of the IM and put a screw in it to block it up.

And just rip everything else out,easy as that.It only cathes vapours,nothing else runs through it.

[beeza]

I've done that. The throttle cable holds the engine revs a bit high, and the ecu tries to lower the revs via the EACV but everytime the ecu relaxs, up it goes on the throttle cable.

Still check out the others. And remember to give the eacv a light lubrication after cleaning so it can move easily.

That's the problem it will have if it isn't sealing properly around the tb plate but it dosen't have to be the throttle cable holding it open a bit,it can be any of the above too.

On the d and b-series car the eacv is called the iacv,same thing.

[beeza]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys I am gonna try and eliminate most problems
Tomorrow and hope for a Better b16a future lol.. Once this issue is fixed on come the mods

I will try all of the given examples and if I find the fault I will definitely post it up! Once again thank you for all the support

It's a lot to take in,I know :)

but:

Have you adjusted the fitv?

and

Also have you changed the intake manifold or Throttle body?

I reckon it could be the FITV:

Did U try THIS? (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?120938-You-Have-Cleaned-the-IACV-BUT-Your-Idle-Is-Still-High-Erratic-Adjust-The-FITV.)

[Alexplicit]

i just solved my issue, it is quite embarrassing, however, do u have an after market ecu with launch control? do u have dickhead mates hu like to press little red buttons, and not own up to it even though u have spent hundreds of dollars trying to get it fixed? turns out my issue was just this.

[TbM]

^^Alexplicit thats great news you have it fixed, bit annoying that it was your mate but atleast its fixed now and you can get back to driving your JDM goodness :)


It's a lot to take in,I know :)

but:

Have you adjusted the fitv?

and

Also have you changed the intake manifold or Throttle body?

I reckon it could be the FITV:

Did U try THIS? (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?120938-You-Have-Cleaned-the-IACV-BUT-Your-Idle-Is-Still-High-Erratic-Adjust-The-FITV.)


P.s if your like me and don't have the FITV And that other stuff just try all the steps u can :(

Beeza he doesnt have a FITV supposedly due to it being a late model b16a2, cars that dont have a FITV use the ECT sensor to bump the idle via the iacv untill the coolant is at operating temp IIRC.

[blastnpast]

Haha zomg about the ECU issue man looks like my ECU tuner has had second thoughts and ordered me a brand new ECU to test out which may solve the issue let's hope so :) and yes I have a Crome ECU with a hondata s200 I don't think the s200 has launch control active tho

[Alexplicit]

well if you have your car handy do u have the little red button? set up the launch control as if u did have it see how u go

[blastnpast]

well if you have your car handy do u have the little red button? set up the launch control as if u did have it see how u go

Where would the button be man inside the ECU itself or on the hondata unit I think the launch ctrl is in the programming of my ECU? And do you mean set up launch ctrl or remove it if it is enabled lol

[beeza]

^^Alexplicit thats great news you have it fixed, bit annoying that it was your mate but atleast its fixed now and you can get back to driving your JDM goodness :)



Beeza he doesnt have a FITV supposedly due to it being a late model b16a2, cars that dont have a FITV use the ECT sensor to bump the idle via the iacv untill the coolant is at operating temp IIRC.

Ah,I see.

Hopefully the new ecu will fix it then.

[x3cindymichael]

had the same problem too, was fine after a warm up but . so probably sensors

[blastnpast]

Lol nope when mine gets warmer it just gets worse dude, and when clutch is engaged the idle jumps to 3,500 then slowly drops down to 1,500 however once car is turned off and back on (while car is still warm) the car runs better and when clutch is engaged it raises to 1,500 then drop down to a steady 1,000

Problem is still occurring and I guess I'll have to take it to another auto electrician