Needing some help to resolve an air pump error on AP1

[chainsaw1968]

Hi All,
Needing some help to resolve an P0410 (air pump circuit malfunction) / P0411 (Secondary air injection system incorrect flow) error. (6 long flashes of engine light) on AP1.

Background
Car had some front end damage & has just come back from panel shop. Only noticed the error after it came back from panel shop, but they don’t know if they did something wrong.

Symptoms
When starting engine air pump runs for about 5 seconds then stops, as soon as the air pump stops the engine light comes on.

So Far
I removed bumper & ran some jumper wires to the air pump relay & the pump runs fine. Removed the pump outlet hose from the air control valve (on the inlet manifold) & there seems to be a fair amount of air flow & pressure coming from the pump. i.e. pump & relay seem to be OK

Sucked on the vacuum hose on the air control valve (on the inlet manifold) & I can hear the diaphram operate so it should be ok. Having said that, with the engine idling I couldn’t feel any vacuum on the hose that goes to the diaphram???

I have a funny feeling that the panel shop might have stuffed up some vacuum hoses when they put the front end back together.

Can anyone verify that their connections on the air control valve (on the back of the air box) are the same as attached photo.

Any other help would also be appreciated

Regards







[img=http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1ed150376c.jpg] (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

[vyets]

First thing check to make sure all the lines are correct

http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=13773&highlight=secondary+air+injection

Since it was in a front ender they probally removed some things and put it back wrong.

If all is correct check the relay fuse next to the air pump behind the front bar if that's fine as well try and listen too the airpump see if it turns on at a cold start should turn on for about 30 seconds and go off.

Also it could be a leak in the one of the lines, which is hard to tell because the pump dosen't go on for very long.

If after you've tried all that and there's no luck maybe do a swap with someone who has a working airpump to find out if it's the actual air pump that is damaged if it is time for a new one or a working 2nd hand one.

Every single time you try one of these reset your ecu as well.

Good luck buddy!

[l3vnd1]

Is there any way to actually remove the pump with out it generating a CEL?

Is this pump really necessary apart from the emissions?

It seems like it takes up a lot of weight with its lines, canisters and pumps....

[vyets]

GTM from the usa were in the mist of designing a air pump delete kit, which removes it without a CEL, however it failed and everyone was refunded. They could not get it to work with the USDM s2k's however they claim with the jdm audm etc. etc. it "should" work however noone from any of those reigons have tested it. Me and a mate have emailed them to find out if there's any more information on this but they have yet to reply.
Another company that makes one is OrangeBall in japan, however as I cannot read Japanese I don't have any idea if it actually works hehe hopefully one day I will figure out a way to remove it and i'll let everyone know

[Ferrari]

I just removed my air pump saved 4.5 kilos and cleaned up the engien bay in the process. You will run a CEL if you don't run a standalone ECU ( I fitted Kpro at the same time).

The GTM kit does work for cars that arent USDM... PM GT Motoring on S2ki to confirm this but im sure of it. And yes the airpump does nothing. AP2 doesnt even have it as they run double barrel catalytic convertor instead.

I loved removing it, engine bay looks awesome without a/c and airpump.

[AusS2000]

Doesn't AP1 run a double (two stage) cat too?

[Ferrari]

Nope AP1 is single barrell, AP2 is double from 06 onwards hence no airpump on the AP2 06+ to pass emissions. There is an article about it in hyper rev magazine.

[vyets]

Yeap I've seen the article too but I'm sure the audm ap1 runs a double as well which is why one of my barrels came loose and mashed my o2 sensor while the other one is still in place. The o2 sensor is also in a diffrent location to the jdm one as well.

[Ferrari]

Either way air pump sucks!

[fatboyz39]

Either way air pump sucks!

Amen. :)

[l3vnd1]

GTM from the usa were in the mist of designing a air pump delete kit, which removes it without a CEL, however it failed and everyone was refunded. They could not get it to work with the USDM s2k's however they claim with the jdm audm etc. etc. it "should" work however noone from any of those reigons have tested it. Me and a mate have emailed them to find out if there's any more information on this but they have yet to reply.
Another company that makes one is OrangeBall in japan, however as I cannot read Japanese I don't have any idea if it actually works hehe hopefully one day I will figure out a way to remove it and i'll let everyone know

This is good info

If anyone has a solution I would be eage to find out!

[l3vnd1]

Well guys I found out that apparently the Challenger fix only did not work for USDM cars.

Apparently it is OK for AUDM cars -


Hi there

Inquired about this air pump delete kit a while ago RE: Australian cars.

I read your thread stating that this should work on all cars except USDM.

Can I get a total priced shipped to Sydney Australia?


Chris




Chris,

The price would be $125 shipped to Sydney.

Thanks,

Greg



Thanks Greg

If this does not work for AUDM, can it be refunded?




Chris,

If you have some problem with it not being compatible, it can be returned, but only within 2 weeks of recieving.

Greg



FROM S2Ki

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/711974-air-pump-delete-kit-by-challenge/

[thebob]

Anyone got any new light on this? Izzy racing now has a kit but it's confirmed it doesn't work on audm.

[vyets]

the GTM kit works, me and my mate bought one i've yet to install it but he already has and confirms works :D

[thebob]

Vyets, thank you. Did you get the puddy mod block off plate aswell?

[aozora]

Vyets, thank you. Did you get the puddy mod block off plate aswell?

The GTM kit comes with one :)
There's a few slight modifications that are needed but nothing major.

[chainsaw1968]

Hi I searched far & wide & couldnt find anything that would work. I even asked Bob @ Modifry to come up with something but after a bit of reasearch it was too difficult for him due to the ecu reading the O2 sensors at startup & detecting if the air pump isnt working & bringing up CEL


Can you provide a link to the GTM kit? I would be interested in hearing from someone that has it working.

[vyets]

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/711974-air-pump-delete-kit-by-challenge/

however it dosen't work on usdm cars, but as aozora said it works on our adm cars and jdm.

[garett]

whats the point of the air pump.?

[vyets]

it pumps air into the cat to warm it up quicker on startup.

[chainsaw1968]

I PM them twice to see if it works on AU S2K with no response. Below is the final thread on their Air Pump Delete Kit post.

If anyone has found a solution please let me know:D



Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:48 PM

Hello.

First of all, we will be offering the refund for this kit.
Please send us back your unit, we will refund full price + shipping.
When you send us back, please note following

Your Full Name :
Your Address :
Your S2ki ID :
Payment Method you used :

Please send the kit to...

GT Motoring
716 Tek Dr. Unit C
Crystal Lake, IL 60014


We are deeply disappointed that we won't be able to fix the issue due to few reasons.
Our unit works ALL-region S2000 except US spec.(which means our unit works on Canadian spec)

Not only US spec S2000 has totally different circuit to control/monitor air pump, it also has different ECU programming to monitor air pump operation(air flow).
Our fix kit was be able to by pass the circuit, but not the ECU programming.
We were trying many different ways to by pass the programming(air flow) last 3 weeks but no luck.
We found this issue very last minute while we were doing long term testing on US spec S2000.
The operation is monitored by oxygen sensor at start up which is almost impossible to bypass the signal/ECU programming due to several circumstances.

Once our original unit is installed on US spec S2k, it causes slight electricity usage even with ignition off due to ECU won't shut off at all.(ECU stays on all the time)
Because ECU does NOT check for air pump operation at first start up after the ECU reset, our unit deleted CEL but ECU kept stay ON.
(However, this is NOT the way it suppose to work. We have tested on other regions S2000 and it works just fine.)

As I said few weeks ago, this kit was originally designed based off euro spec S2000.
After we were done testing on euro spec S2000, we tested on US spec S2000s before the release.
We confirmed that it worked(as it is describe above) which was hard to notice any issue in short period.
Now I really wish it showed some issue right away, not like this....

If you are driving S2000 as a daily, you shouldn't have much issue because ECU only draws very small amount of electricity.
But all buyers are free to get refund.
Once again, we are very sorry to bring this news.
We apologize about all this hassles and issues.



Jae

[vyets]

we just said afew post above that it works with the adm cars.

[vyets]

By the way
picked mine up from mate aozora installed and it works :)

[aozora]

I PM them twice to see if it works on AU S2K with no response. Below is the final thread on their Air Pump Delete Kit post.

If anyone has found a solution please let me know:D



Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:48 PM

Hello.

First of all, we will be offering the refund for this kit.
Please send us back your unit, we will refund full price + shipping.
When you send us back, please note following

Your Full Name :
Your Address :
Your S2ki ID :
Payment Method you used :

Please send the kit to...

GT Motoring
716 Tek Dr. Unit C
Crystal Lake, IL 60014


We are deeply disappointed that we won't be able to fix the issue due to few reasons.
Our unit works ALL-region S2000 except US spec.(which means our unit works on Canadian spec)

Not only US spec S2000 has totally different circuit to control/monitor air pump, it also has different ECU programming to monitor air pump operation(air flow).
Our fix kit was be able to by pass the circuit, but not the ECU programming.
We were trying many different ways to by pass the programming(air flow) last 3 weeks but no luck.
We found this issue very last minute while we were doing long term testing on US spec S2000.
The operation is monitored by oxygen sensor at start up which is almost impossible to bypass the signal/ECU programming due to several circumstances.

Once our original unit is installed on US spec S2k, it causes slight electricity usage even with ignition off due to ECU won't shut off at all.(ECU stays on all the time)
Because ECU does NOT check for air pump operation at first start up after the ECU reset, our unit deleted CEL but ECU kept stay ON.
(However, this is NOT the way it suppose to work. We have tested on other regions S2000 and it works just fine.)

As I said few weeks ago, this kit was originally designed based off euro spec S2000.
After we were done testing on euro spec S2000, we tested on US spec S2000s before the release.
We confirmed that it worked(as it is describe above) which was hard to notice any issue in short period.
Now I really wish it showed some issue right away, not like this....

If you are driving S2000 as a daily, you shouldn't have much issue because ECU only draws very small amount of electricity.
But all buyers are free to get refund.
Once again, we are very sorry to bring this news.
We apologize about all this hassles and issues.



Jae

Err you just answered your own question even if you ignore what has been going on in this thread.

[chainsaw1968]

errr sorry :o

I just got reply from greg at GTM & have ordered the kit.


Thanks for your help!!!!:thumbsup:

bye bye air pump

[thebob]

Got the same gtm kit and so far it works. FYI keep the little black unit that has two vaccum lines running to it. You can remove the lines but the unit needs to be plugged in for the kit to work.

I also might add if your after speedy shipping, great service and no lies then don't bother with gt motoring. 13 weeks wait for my item.

[ludecrs]

Does anyone here have that little plug on the stock airbox the plug connects to like in the first picture? That I could buy? My stock airbox is missing it and the car is throwing a cel (I believe) because of it.