B16A1 - Which Fuel? 95/98?

[Ryuzaki]

What fuel should be run in a B16A1

95 or 98 octane?

[joel89]

I run 98 in all my car wouldnt run anythn else

[trism]

yep 98 for sure

[dougie_504]

98 is best, and I don't see the point in using 95 instead of 98. The jump in price from 91 to 95 is significant compared to the jump between 95 and 98. Don't use 95 to 'save money' like a couple of people on this forum LOL

[hmetro24]

So which petrol to use on d16a8 ? 91-95-98 and where is the best place.

[THEEYA]

I always pour bp

[Lukey]

avgas

[trism]

methanol

[Lukey]

e85 yo

[gumus89]

My god, what is wrong with you people? Give me a good reason to use 98 over 95?

[Lukey]

why use premium in the first place over regular?

[gumus89]

Well I have a h22 so its 95 minimum recommended. What about the b16a?
If it uses 91 then wtf guys, 98?

[Fredoops]

My god, what is wrong with you people? Give me a good reason to use 98 over 95?
The price difference is like 4-5cents. You already jumped 15 cents from 91, there's only a few dollar difference per tank between 95 & 98, and it'll cost you more than the price difference to try and lift that octane ratingwiyth addictives.

Also, some 95 is just plain bad fuel where I am (QLD), iirc Shell it's refined overseas and shipped here and boosted back to 95/98 using octane boosters, so sometimes their 98 feels like 95 and their 95 feels like 93 (in my euro)

Furthermore, most higher octane fuel contains cleaning agents and other addictives. Vortex 98 has almost the same level of addictive as BP Ultimate 98 (they're all refined from the same place I think). the Only 95 octane I know that contains an cleaning/addictive package is Vortex 95.

so the 4-5cent not just get you higher octane fuel but also cleaning/addictive agents.

[azn_k3nt]

bp ultimate done :D

[dougie_504]

To all you people asking why you would bother to use 95 or 98, go ahead just use 91, and if you can make sure it's from an independent little no-name store where the toilet probably flushes into their petrol storage.

95 minimum if you car is worth caring for. 98 for those of you who know why it's the best option (modern/tuned/JDM etc).

[Frosty-Civic]

Well I have a h22 so its 95 minimum recommended. What about the b16a?
If it uses 91 then wtf guys, 98?

Soo u would only use the recommended fuel and refuse to use something better for your car?

[VicTiR]

Hey dude - I'd suggest use 98 (I do in my b16a2) more for the anti-knocking properties of the higher octane rating than anything else.
Knocking is when you get combustion happening slightly before TDC (top dead centre) of the piston stroke and it can kill engines. Low risk of occurence between 95 and 98. The turbo guys have more to worry about than NA guys usually due to the intake temps they experience.

You won't get much gains but you can tune your engine (advance the timing a few degrees) to take advantage of this and get more power (or shift it around in the rev range). I've read that E85 has better anti-knocking than 98 octane too - but never tested it personally as it's not for sale in SA.

[gumus89]

The price difference is like 4-5cents. You already jumped 15 cents from 91, there's only a few dollar difference per tank between 95 & 98, and it'll cost you more than the price difference to try and lift that octane ratingwiyth addictives.

Also, some 95 is just plain bad fuel where I am (QLD), iirc Shell it's refined overseas and shipped here and boosted back to 95/98 using octane boosters, so sometimes their 98 feels like 95 and their 95 feels like 93 (in my euro)

Furthermore, most higher octane fuel contains cleaning agents and other addictives. Vortex 98 has almost the same level of addictive as BP Ultimate 98 (they're all refined from the same place I think). the Only 95 octane I know that contains an cleaning/addictive package is Vortex 95.

so the 4-5cent not just get you higher octane fuel but also cleaning/addictive agents.

I get Vortex 95 and there is absolutely zero reason to use 98. 98 RON petrol has NO extra energy per litre, which is essentially the only thing that will increase power in an engine that can not utilise the extra knock resistance


Soo u would only use the recommended fuel and refuse to use something better for your car?

What I said above, and the fact that 98 fuel is not "better" than 95. Its got higher knock resistance and sometimes has extra "detergents". I use Vortex 95 which is meant to have the same detergents in them anyway. There is nothing better about 98 for my engine. If you dont know what the differences between fuels are then there is no point posting.


Hey dude - I'd suggest use 98 (I do in my b16a2) more for the anti-knocking properties of the higher octane rating than anything else.
Knocking is when you get combustion happening slightly before TDC (top dead centre) of the piston stroke and it can kill engines. Low risk of occurence between 95 and 98. The turbo guys have more to worry about than NA guys usually due to the intake temps they experience.

You won't get much gains but you can tune your engine (advance the timing a few degrees) to take advantage of this and get more power (or shift it around in the rev range). I've read that E85 has better anti-knocking than 98 octane too - but never tested it personally as it's not for sale in SA.

98 does have the extra knock resistance than 95 but it is way over the top. Even 95 will have more than sufficient knock resistance for the engine. Whatever is recommended is always conservative anyway. You would be unlikely to see any knock even if you used under the recommended. And even then, if you were forced to use lower, all you would have to do it not put the engine under heavy load (i.e. dont gun it and you would be completely fine).

[Jaiiiwon]

GUYS THERE A PEDDIE STATION THAT SELLS 100 OCTANE!!

*jizz*



newayz, yeah 95 so crap. dont even bother.. i tried that stuff.. its lyk tryna gym afta eatin a pounder (four quarter pounder patties).
you car wont like it, and most certainly you. you'll find yourself havin yer foot down wid nex to no response at all.

[gumus89]

GUYS THERE A PEDDIE STATION THAT SELLS 100 OCTANE!!

*jizz*



newayz, yeah 95 so crap. dont even bother.. i tried that stuff.. its lyk tryna gym afta eatin a pounder (four quarter pounder patties).
you car wont like it, and most certainly you. you'll find yourself havin yer foot down wid nex to no response at all.

Shut up.

[Jaiiiwon]

LOL.. settle down you grump.

its a forum.. meaning anyone and everyone have their opinion put out there.

hey, if you think 95 is sufficient.. by all means use 95. but you dont have to be a dick about it.
the guy askes question.. did he direct it specifically at you?. no didnt think so.

[gumus89]

Yeah its a forum, but no need to talk like a bogan.
Forums are full of anecdotal crap and thats nothing to be proud of. Every opinion should at least be justified with some real evidence.
There are so many variables when driving that its almost impossible outside of a chemistry lab to determine whether one octane fuel will be better than another.
My car feels very different day to day with different weather and I use different amounts of fuel from week to week depending on if my travel into town is busier or not.
Not to mention that 95 or 98 from one shop and another will most probably be very different as well. Even from the same place two weeks in a row may have quite different chemical composition.

[Jaiiiwon]

yeah well have a look at your info. It says MEMBER. act like one. Dont be all top dog bull crap on me, acting all moderator and watnot.

People can have their say, it all comes down to the disgretion of the person who asked the question, to either take the advice or not.

Evidence? It simple Mr. Grump. If 95 octane causes you to have your foot down on full throttle, climbing up revs, etc. that there means you're using more fuel.
Now in saying that, you wouldn't have that problem if you run 98, as it's more responsive. You wouldn't have to rev it high. you wouldn't have to floor it up a high to get some considerable speed.

Now since the fuel tank is a consistant variable.. you can therefore say that you'd not only have more response, but SAVE petrol using 98.

Okay.. now here's something to cheer you up Mr. Grump.
ive ran on 95 for 6month as a test.. i've kept a log on it.. and on average i get 350kms per tank (near empty - tank light on)
now i run on 98 and i get easy 400kms+ per tank (with still 5-6Ls) left in the tank.

If you dropped the whole technical bull crap, that doesn't matter. you'd see that 98 is infact better.

[mugen_ctr]

i think overall, honda engines do require better octane, d-series, h-series or b-series. Ive found my d-series runs less kms on 91 than on 95 or 98 for that matter. The car seems more sluggish with 91, im not so sure why, but it does feel alot healthier on premium fuels. I do think 98 is over kill on these engines, but as pointed out, there are more benefits than just knock resistance to be gained.

As far as 100 octane goes, unless the engine was built for that, forget it LOL. Only minority ppl use it, mostly Skyline GTR owners as such. But its been proven that 98 octane can be safely tuned on cars, an making close to 600hp, so i dont see why u really need to run 100 octane.

[Jaiiiwon]

ahh really?

in that case, 98 = win. ^_^

but I still woudn't mind testing it out. My mate, he's got the same car as you. He used 100, and it took him everywhere!

[gumus89]

Acting like a moderator? Moderators are just people, they rarely act differently on forums I go to.
If that evidence is good enough for you then fine. Its not like the weather is hotter during 6 months of the year compared to the other half :|
Its your money in the end. And if you are dim enough to be swayed by a placebo effect then good on you.

[azn_k3nt]

hey hey :) then what do u recommend for the k-series (cu2 engines)...ive been using bp ultimate ever since picking it up at the dealer

[Jaiiiwon]

You act like a moderator cause you try imply that you have authority over others. Especially in a sense that its opinions. Thinking that your opinion is above everyone else. Get over it! its opinions! everyone has their own. Why you trying convince everyone that yours is better?!

My evidence is.. Dam well good evidence, what can be better than drivability and fuel efficiency?

And yes its my money, but it still ends up being better. what's a few cents for extra 100kms (approx) on your tank?
from empty to full tank is around $50 for me. that extra few cents a litre has no effect on me mate.. its like what? $2. You're having a massive grump to me, over a bloody $2!!

and FYI.. how is it a placebo, if its facts with evidence?
placebo effect is just something that makes you think it works. But its not only me that thinks it works.. my car also thinks it works. but you know what? the milege counter doesn't lie when measuring distances. It displays what it measures. and it measured that 98 gives out more kms in a tank more than 95. Sure i can say this and that, but my car supports that message.

and you now what? you're opinion doesn't even matter in this question anyway. LOOK AT THE TITLE. he has a B series. Not a piece of scrap H series.
OH n look! its says EM1 on my info.. meaning i have B series as well. So wouldn't that mean, whatever works for me could infact be a better comparison for him than you?

Where's all you're evidence mate? All you been saying is crap that probably came outa your ass. Do us all a favour, go sit in the toilet for an hour or two. because you're full of it!

i've put out my opinion and gave you evidence. You don't like it. well then shut up, its my opinion and i've stated why that's what i believe. And you've done you're bit. Just leave it as that. Stop trying imply your opinion on me, thinking your right, because mate, the only thing that's been a pro of 95 over 98 is the fact that's its cheaper by a few cents. And like i said before it only ends up being an extra $2.

so yeah.. if you want to save yourself $2 sure.. go right ahead.. but i'll enjoy putting my extra $2 on fuel that gives me way more kms then 95 does.

and if you still disagree, well that's your problem not mine. maybe im not such a tight ass like you.


Goodbye Mr. Grump, it was nice conversing with you.

[gumus89]

If you werent so retarded you could see that your "test" has too many variables for you to pin-point where its coming from. You think its the fuel, I say there could be a number of things which can have a much more profound effect on economy.
If you cant understand that fine, but I hope others that may read it can.

Oh and btw, your fuel gauge does lie. The only way to be anywhere near accurate about fuel economy is to measure how much fuel goes into the tank for a certain number of kilometers, not just oh, I got about XXX kms for a whole tank. How much is a whole tank? Did you go down to empty? Did you use 3 litres more before filling than last time, making it look like you got further on the "tank"?

[VT3C]

My god, what is wrong with you people? Give me a good reason to use 98 over 95?

HAHAH good ol' Ozhonda..

OK well your GEN1 B16 came from Japan.. only first gen B16's were available in Japan and some of Europe - I am not sure about the EDM spec.. JAPAN uses 100RON fuel minimum.
all aus-delivered Hondas are 'de-tuned' to cope with our lower RON fuels..

so if you have a stock Aus-delivered honda, u can run it on regular unleadded as reccomended in the service manual. however it will always run smoother and better lubrication for your valvetrain if you use a higher RON fuel.

if your motor is a swapped JDM motor then it's tuned for 100RON so using 98 is still not quite being fully optimised however the difference between being 2 RON short rather than 10 is insignificant. If you were REALLY worried you could retard you ignition timing by a fraction but generalyl if you run 98 you wont have any problems.

using 91 will definately be bad for your JDM motor and you will HEAR the difference in the valvetrain almost instantly.

over the past 15 years I have experimented with all of the fuels from all brands and my testing included NEW hondas with electronic fuel consumption meters etc. and for the extra few cents, you get extended milage from the petrol so in my opinion the extra expense doesnt exist as it works out about the same in the end but i would much prefer to have the added lubrication of my valves and cooler cyllinder temps than $2 in my pocket after filling up a whole tank LOL.

having said this, my old AUS-delivered B16A (gen2) Del Sol had an OEM decal saying to use 'Premium Unleadded Only' however in 1993 when this car was imported we ONLY had a maximum of 95 RON fuel in australia.

I even run my 23 year old Prelude on 100 and she loves me for it..

[trism]

can you explain to me how using 98ron helps the valvetrain, which doesnt even contact the fuel?

the only thing it might do is stop the combustion chamber surface of the valve from becoming pitted due to detonation...

[gumus89]

Here is a perfect illustration of your "detuned" comment for some Domestic Market vehicles.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/gumus89/11012011290.jpg

Although i do have a question for you. How does the engine run smoother and achieve better valvetrain lubrication from higher RON fuels?

[Ryuzaki]

i think overall, honda engines do require better octane, d-series, h-series or b-series. Ive found my d-series runs less kms on 91 than on 95 or 98 for that matter. The car seems more sluggish with 91, im not so sure why, but it does feel alot healthier on premium fuels. I do think 98 is over kill on these engines, but as pointed out, there are more benefits than just knock resistance to be gained.

As far as 100 octane goes, unless the engine was built for that, forget it LOL. Only minority ppl use it, mostly Skyline GTR owners as such. But its been proven that 98 octane can be safely tuned on cars, an making close to 600hp, so i dont see why u really need to run 100 octane.

That's what I had thought... If your engine wasn't designed for it then why...


Here is a perfect illustration of your "detuned" comment for some Domestic Market vehicles.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii178/gumus89/11012011290.jpg

Although i do have a question for you. How does the engine run smoother and achieve better valvetrain lubrication from higher RON fuels?

I've read somewhere that the B16A1 was designed to run on a higher octane fuel but I wanted to get some confirmation. Where's that image from/does it have a list for B-series?

Also, BP Ultimate vs Shell V-Power? And what's the deal with E85?

[EK1 Civic]

Shell builds slime in your system and fouls your injectors over time. Its not a true 98 ron, its got added chemicals to make it 98 ron. Where as BP Ultimate doesnt.

[hmetro24]

Today I filled 98 from bp for 1.42$ for 1 litre 91 was 133.9 so it is not a big deal it least u enjoy the car, keep it clean and get a lil bit performance. just think guys that you filled 91 when the price is 1.40$+. just check the best day to refill your tank.

[mugen_ctr]

Shell builds slime in your system and fouls your injectors over time. Its not a true 98 ron, its got added chemicals to make it 98 ron. Where as BP Ultimate doesnt.

As far as shell goes, i remember when i filled up my brothers S15 with it, ran crap, Bp98 seems to make it better, yet some other cars, its vice versa, so its pretty divided opinion BP vs Shell

[gumus89]

The question still stands...
How does the fuel make the valvetrain more/less lubricated?

[Fredoops]

The question still stands...
How does the fuel make the valvetrain more/less lubricated?

That poster may have LRP, PULP and racing fuel mixed up, but you can't blame him, till a few years back, LRP was PULP.

The old leaded fuels, and engine that uses them, the lead was a lubricating agent for valve stems I remembered.

Back in the day Mobil servo used to sell a lead replacement fuel (which they also sell as PULP) which contains lubricating agents in place of lead, dunno if they still sell them however. I think a lot of refineries just incorporated the LRP into the PULP they sell, if they say their PULP was safe for pre 1986 cars, chances are it's a LRP pulp containing lubricating additives.

In fact I'm pretty sure most of the racing fuels (eg Optimax 105 or something, used to be sold near eastern creek) still contains lubricity improvers (EDIT: BP ultimate has "friction reducers"... Essentially the same thing). Also I remembered at lease one premium fuel that advertised to contain lubricity agents when I was ore in Europe (but it could be premium diesel,I can't recall)


Or... It could just be that PULP burns cleaner and leave less residue behind compared to cheaper fuel. For example, BP ultimate has 70% less sulphur content of regular petrol and BP 95 octane, and sulphur is a known corrosive agent... And a health hazard. OR... The fact those PULP contains cleaning agents that removes valve deposits...

[chauster]

I fill 91 in my ek1.
98/95/91/e85/e10 fuel is fuel, it makes my car go. The cheaper the better.

OH thats cause the car is a daily and i dont drive it like a bawsss
=D

my2c

[gumus89]

And so you shouldnt worry. The effect of the fuel will be negligible compared to the other shit that can destroy a car.

[trism]

That poster may have LRP, PULP and racing fuel mixed up, but you can't blame him, till a few years back, LRP was PULP.

The old leaded fuels, and engine that uses them, the lead was a lubricating agent for valve stems I remembered.

Back in the day Mobil servo used to sell a lead replacement fuel (which they also sell as PULP) which contains lubricating agents in place of lead, dunno if they still sell them however. I think a lot of refineries just incorporated the LRP into the PULP they sell, if they say their PULP was safe for pre 1986 cars, chances are it's a LRP pulp containing lubricating additives.

In fact I'm pretty sure most of the racing fuels (eg Optimax 105 or something, used to be sold near eastern creek) still contains lubricity improvers (EDIT: BP ultimate has "friction reducers"... Essentially the same thing). Also I remembered at lease one premium fuel that advertised to contain lubricity agents when I was ore in Europe (but it could be premium diesel,I can't recall)


Or... It could just be that PULP burns cleaner and leave less residue behind compared to cheaper fuel. For example, BP ultimate has 70% less sulphur content of regular petrol and BP 95 octane, and sulphur is a known corrosive agent... And a health hazard. OR... The fact those PULP contains cleaning agents that removes valve deposits...


nothing in this post answeres teh question.

How is it that fuel, which goes in the inlet manifold, through the ports, into the combustion chamber, then back out through the exhaust port, can have any effect at all on the valve train, which is cams/springs/retainers/rockers/guides/seals etc etc when it is isolated totally from the fuel entering.

You might say "oh, because the valve stem is in the path of the incoming air/fuel charge, and it transports it back up, but it doesnt, because the job of the valve stem seal is to prevent this.

Leaded fuel, and lead replacement fuel, and now, additives for leaded cars did not have an effect on the valve train.

It helped to lubricate the valve seats, which were made of a softer material. So now, if you want to run unleaded in a car designed for leaded you either have to
a: get hardened valve seats fitted; or
b: use an additive, lest your valve seats will get destroyed over time.