engine advice needed.....

[b16bomber]

hi ppl

im only new to the world of honda, so im wanting some advice on engine choice for a conversion. the conversion im sad to say will not be going into a honda shell as such. im looking at using a D16 of some sort mainly cuz of financial reasons as i dont believe that doing a B16/B18 is within reach at this point in time.

my question is what D16 engine would you guys, that know ur stuff, recommend. ie. best performing, reliable and value for money ??????

also where is the best place to source one????

thanks.

[dougie_504]

D16Y1 IMO. Best value for $. OBD1. Wrecker or this forum is a good place to look.

[b16bomber]

can you pls tell me why the D16Y1 model in ur opinion is ur pick of the models ?????? does this model have V-TEC ????

thanks

[Fredoops]

D16Y1

Found in :
1992–1995 Honda Civic VTi (AUS)
Displacement : 1,590 cc (97 cu in)
Bore and Stroke : 75 × 90 mm (3.0 × 3.5 in)
Compression : 9.3:1
Power : 129 hp (96.2 kW, 131 ps) at 6,600 rpm
Torque : 107 ft·lbf (14.8 kg/m, 145 Nm) at 5,200 rpm
Redline : 7,200 rpm
Valvetrain : SOHC VTEC (4 valves per cylinder)
VTEC Switchover : 5,000 rpm
Fuel Control : OBD-1 MPFI
Head Code : P08
ECU Code : P28


that should help.

[hmetro24]

D16a8 is dohc non vtec from SI model
d16y1 is sohc Vtec from vti model
Both this 2 engine give almost same power

[GSi_PSi]

D16A8, basically a b16 with Vtec not working

[owens14]

I think the d16y1 is a great lil engine. I have one in my eg and done a fair few mods like skunk2 manifold hondata gasket port and polish extractors etc and the engine had some balls.

[Jccck]

D16A8, basically a b16 with Vtec not working

Not really, the D16A8 is actually a better engine to build because of it.. I'd choose it tbh.

[GSi_PSi]

Are you saying D16A8 is better than a B16A? because it doesnt have vtec?

[hmetro24]

Are you saying D16A8 is better than a B16A? because it doesnt have vtec?
He is saying that d16a8 is similar to b16a with out Vtec, not better but similar

[dougie_504]

Sounds to me like he's suggesting it's a better engine. I don't agree personally, but the D16A8 is still quite a nice engine, pulls very well.

[hmetro24]

Sounds to me like he's suggesting it's a better engine. I don't agree personally, but the D16A8 is still quite a nice engine, pulls very well.
My friend have d16y1 and i have d16a8. d16a8 pull better and have a bit better performance.But if he want to mod the engine d16y1 is easier to find aftermarket performance parts

[GSi_PSi]

Um thats not what he said, anyways upon futher reading your op, Why would you want to put the economy versions of Honda engines into a different chassis?
I think the cost/headache of getting in the economy honda engines into a different chassis would not be justified when there are far better engines performance orientated 4cylinder from different makes and much cheaper
(These engines can be had for around the same price as D16Y1 around $400-1200 )
ie Nissan SR20DE fwd can be found in nx coupe,SSS etc
ie Toyota 4AGE 16V

[hmetro24]

Um thats not what he said, anyways upon futher reading your op, Why would you want to put the economy versions of Honda engines into a different chassis?
I think the cost/headache of getting in the economy honda engines into a different chassis would not be justified when there are far better engines performance orientated 4cylinder from different makes and much cheaper
(These engines can be had for around the same price as D16Y1 around $400-1200 )
ie Nissan SR20DE fwd can be found in nx coupe,SSS etc
ie Toyota 4AGE 16V
Do you mean to put another car engine in his honda?

[GSi_PSi]

Do you have trouble reading?, re read the op post and what the dude said about the d16a8 being better because it doesnt have vtec

[DNY*BOY]

hey mate actually did one of these Y1's few years ago its a squirty lil car to have fun in on a budget, there are loads of aftermarket parts you can get but dont expect anything great from it (in terms of over all power output) from personal experience it was good for the little money i had at the time but if your actually plainning on buying just a motor and doing mods/rebuilding the costs do add up irregardless. example(rough figures dont quote me) i bought a head ($300) upgraded valve train(900) custom header back exhaust(1000) IM / TB & intake (700), other maintainence gaskets/water pump/timing belt/brakes/sus it adds up recently i sourced a B series motor and it cost less than all the mods together. If your motors good and its serviced/drivable keep it save up and go nuts as long term you need to consider how much life your motor has in it. Majority of the labour was done myself with the help of some friendly OH members too!

[b16bomber]

some excellent info there guys.... but what really sounds appealing is the D16y1, especially if there are more aftermarket performance mods available. what kind of dollars would you pay for a D16y1 ?????? what kind of power can you achieve from this engine????

thanks

[b16bomber]

TBH im wanting to use the D16 cuz i have been told it is relatively cheap to buy and mod and also i have restricted room in my engine bay and i honestly dont think an sr20 would fit and i have always loved the roar of an n/a honda engine on vtec :-))))..... and plus it will be something a lil different from the norm i guess. but im loving all of ur input guys. thanks :-)))))

[dougie_504]

D16 (SOHC or DOHC) can make good power, but it's just too much of a hassle when you can use a standard B-series.

Check out what the yanks do. Just because pretty much nobody in AUS bothers doesn't mean it's not possible:
http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-building/21761-building-powerful-street-na-d16y8-z6.html


I have a D16Y1 and I like it. Revs out nicely, I never have trouble overtaking etc. Good solid & reliable motor. Cheap. But if I wanted more kick from my daily driver I'd rather be playing with a D16A8 because the torque curve is better and it's more responsive to N/A mods being a DOHC engine.

So personally I suggest only using the D-series if you want something cheap and 'fun' to play around with. If you want power I suggest get a B-series. If you want power specifically from a D-series...just boost the MF.

[TheSaint]

i actually like the toyota 4a-ge (1.6ltr 16v) engine over the D16a8

if it was me i would go for the D16y1 (americans call it the D16z6) - theres a tonne of support out there and its basically the best bang for buck engine you can work on in an EG
it has the best gear ratios and best power rating out of all the obd1 D's and has vtec as well for a bit of fun

if you want inspiration on a cheap build - check out my thread in my sig at the bottom of my post
D15b7 with D16a6 Cam and D16z6 intake manifold bolted to a JDM D15b gearbox - cost almost nothing to build and pulls damn hard lol

[b16bomber]

So personally I suggest only using the D-series if you want something cheap and 'fun' to play around with. If you want power I suggest get a B-series. If you want power specifically from a D-series...just boost the MF.

yeah i am after something cheap and fun tp play with as this will be my first conversion i will be doing myself, so if i f**k it up it wont be too costly lol. so im thinking maybe if i do want more power after i have my fun n/a, i will do what you suggest and just boost the MF!!!!! lol

anyone got a cheap D16y1 for sale :-)))))))

[GSi_PSi]

what car is it going in>?

[b16bomber]

i wanna put it into a swift gti

[Jccck]

Do you have trouble reading?, re read the op post and what the dude said about the d16a8 being better because it doesnt have vtec

Lol.

Yes, the D16A8 has far more potential as a motor than the D16Y1.
Standard, sure they're comparable.. But it's a trend in Honda Motors non-Vtec engines to have better power gains across the board, from the same levels of modification.

Just because Johnny Tran has VTEC, doesn't mean it's 'the shit'..

[DNY*BOY]

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010/11/24/car-feature-gt-gt-bisimoto-civic-wagon.aspx heres some inspiration for you mate!

[GSi_PSi]

Lol.

Yes, the D16A8 has far more potential as a motor than the D16Y1.
Standard, sure they're comparable.. But it's a trend in Honda Motors non-Vtec engines to have better power gains across the board, from the same levels of modification.

Just because Johnny Tran has VTEC, doesn't mean it's 'the shit'..

LOL Ignorance is bliss!!
according to your theory, honda are pretty stupid for making there non-vtec heads flow better than there vtec heads..... might as well chuck my k20 and b20vtec out for d16a8 powazzzz.

Im pretty sure i know where this is headed, you have a non-vtec motor, you come across a thread on some non-vtec supporter site, saying oh vtec motors are shit because VTEC killer camshafts said so
blahblah and so on.

No, the DOHC VTEC heads still flow better than the non-vtec exqivalent.

[Jccck]

LOL Ignorance is bliss!!
according to your theory, honda are pretty stupid for making there non-vtec heads flow better than there vtec heads..... might as well chuck my k20 and b20vtec out for d16a8 powazzzz.

Im pretty sure i know where this is headed, you have a non-vtec motor, you come across a thread on some non-vtec supporter site, saying oh vtec motors are shit because VTEC killer camshafts said so
blahblah and so on.

No, the DOHC VTEC heads still flow better than the non-vtec exqivalent.

H23A's D16A8's and F22A's have better head design that their VTEC equivilents.
I know i'm right.
And the beautiful thing is, i don't need to prove it correct.. Because you can't prove that i'm wrong.

VTEC is an amazing creation by Honda.. The H22A and K20A Motors are brilliant!
I never recall saying that Non-Vtec was better? I said that the D16A8 has more potential than the D16Y1.

I actually had to google "vtec killer camshafts" to know wtf you were talking about.. All i can say is, LOL!

I wasn't aware there was more options than the D16A8 & D16Y1! In light of this;
You'd be clinically insane, to not put a 4AGE in.. It shits all over those D Series.

[dougie_504]

VTEC is better than non-VTEC IMO. That is why Honda now produces more VTEC engines than non-VTEC engines. Driveability is the key.

I also think the Y1 has as much potential as an A8. If I had a silly amount of money I'd probably enjoy building them both to see how they stack up down the modification track.


However I would also like to point out that the SOHC VTEC head is very well designed and actually has a more ideally shaped combustion chamber than some of the non-VTEC D-series and VTEC B-series counterparts.

[Jccck]

VTEC is better than non-VTEC IMO. That is why Honda now produces more VTEC engines than non-VTEC engines. Driveability is the key.

I also think the Y1 has as much potential as an A8. If I had a silly amount of money I'd probably enjoy building them both to see how they stack up down the modification track.


However I would also like to point out that the SOHC VTEC head is very well designed and actually has a more ideally shaped combustion chamber than some of the non-VTEC D-series and VTEC B-series counterparts.

Like you said, it's a driveability thing.. To eliminate the compromise between low rpm and high rpm efficiency.. Because you can't have both! (Unless you have VTEC or similar ofcourse)
But everything comes at a cost, and the cost here is complexity.

Common misconception is that VTEC SOHC is Economy and VTEC DOHC is performance.. Dougie makes a good point!
DOHC and SOHC have their pros and cons, just like VTEC and nonVTEC does.

You're right in that Honda make some amazing SOHC heads! (VTEC and nonVTEC alike)

[dougie_504]

If I could justify another build after my EF8 I would love to do an N/A SOHC D VTEC engine, get the compression up to 12.5:1 or even up to 14.5:1.

They're different engines and comparisons are pretty much a waste of time. Just get the engine that suits your goal. D-series rocks IMO. I love the looks of a SOHC D in an engine bay.

[trism]

See, id much rather a turbo d sohc and an NA b.

Unless of course is was a cammed up carby d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zDMP_Ecrbg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGAufNAxv8c

[GSi_PSi]

I dont see any Spoon/Mugen D series engines, because the Japs aren't retarded they know it is a economy motor, sure you will have the people with more money than sense out there to build a 17:1 compression motor just to prove a point, but in the end it would of been easier and made more power with a performance orientated motor.
Jcck
Now, you clearly said "But it's a trend in Honda Motors non-Vtec engines to have better power gains across the board, from the same levels of modification."
LOL your right because i cant prove you wrong? Obviously your in your own world, you made a claim you cant back up.
D16A8 VS B16A = B16A HEAD FLOWS BETTER
F22A VS F22B = F22B HEAD FLOWS BETTER
H23 VS H22A = H22A HEAD FLOWS BETTER
You guys saying the head design is better and so and so. Where is your proof?
Go to any serious Tuner, ie the states what heads do they prefer?
RLZ, ERL , Endyn performance all compliment and prefer the VTEC heads

Its amazing the amount of bullshit that goes on in this forum and no one speaks up to correct it. Sighhh

Well kids , ive just realised its school holidays so as to not bother with this thread anymore.

[b16bomber]

If I could justify another build after my EF8 I would love to do an N/A SOHC D VTEC engine, get the compression up to 12.5:1 or even up to 14.5:1.

They're different engines and comparisons are pretty much a waste of time. Just get the engine that suits your goal. D-series rocks IMO. I love the looks of a SOHC D in an engine bay.
with our fuel octane levels what kind of compression do you n/a guys run in ur d-series engines ???

[TheSaint]

GSI_PSI - ur totally missing the point here lol

the non vtec engines have alot more linear power band and usually will respond to mods better and be easier to work with than their vtec brothers

on the other hand vtec is an amazing bit of technology that works well - both of them have their time/place/purpose

at the end of the day it all comes down to application, personal preference and money

its my experience that the vtec heads generally flow better than the non vtec heads - but for non vtec application the non vtec heads flow better than the vtec ones (ie if vtec doesnt engage or vtec killer cams are installed)

B16Bomber - when u build the engine just use a D16y8 head gasket - it will push up the compression just enough and be fine to use with our fuel

[dougie_504]

No idea mate, not going to build a D-series either as I already have a B16A project.

[TheSaint]

as for the D16a8 - it just doesnt stack up against the toyota equivelants imo

[TheSaint]

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010/11/24/car-feature-gt-gt-bisimoto-civic-wagon.aspx heres some inspiration for you mate!

lol bisi uses the same gearbox as me ... never noticed that before =p

[Jccck]

D16A8 VS B16A = B16A HEAD FLOWS BETTER
F22A VS F22B = F22B HEAD FLOWS BETTER
H23 VS H22A = H22A HEAD FLOWS BETTER
You guys saying the head design is better and so and so. Where is your proof?

Its amazing the amount of bullshit that goes on in this forum and no one speaks up to correct it. Sighhh

Well kids , ive just realised its school holidays so as to not bother with this thread anymore.

But, where is your proof my friend? Entire corporations revolve around bias and opinion (Hello, board of directors)
So for three companys to 'like' VTEC heads for no apparent reason, really isn't proof.. Sorry.

You're insane if you think the H22A and F22B heads outflow the H23 and F22A ones.. Utterly insane.
I'll even point you to intake manifold design, it alone reflects the fact the non-Vtecs flow better.. Without even having to give you any technical data on the head itself!

The bullshit is that people read shit information, have a poor misunderstanding of said shit information.. And then preach it to others like it's Sunday morning church hymns.
And thus the cycle begins.

Havin' a crack at my age are we? You have no clue how old i am.. And how much experience i have, so don't make assumptions.. I spend my days in an office, school holidays don't bother me bro.

TheSaint is right, as usual.
And i'll completely agree that this 'project' needs a 4AGE.

[b16bomber]

B16Bomber - when u build the engine just use a D16y8 head gasket - it will push up the compression just enough and be fine to use with our fuel

hey mate thanks for advice there. just dont wanna go overboard wit the comp

[GSi_PSi]

some retarted info in here!

[ALLMTR996]

Some very big claims in this thread and alot of mis information

[trism]

Bumping an 8 month thread to spam isn't normal, but on ozhonda it is.


Ozhonda, not even once.

[mocchi]

GSI_PSI - ur totally missing the point here lol

the non vtec engines have alot more linear power band and usually will respond to mods better and be easier to work with than their vtec brothers

on the other hand vtec is an amazing bit of technology that works well - both of them have their time/place/purpose

at the end of the day it all comes down to application, personal preference and money


so a head that flows less will have more linear power band
and will respond to mods better and be easier to work with?

a head that flows better will have non linear power band
and hard to mod/work with?


vtec heads flow better than non vtec head,
but for non-vtec application non vtec heads flow better than the vtec ones.

can you give me a real example that depicts this info?
that statement above makes me think that wind/air can differentiate
wind/air: "oh this head is non vtec, lets accelerate our velocity to achieve 100% bmep."
wind/air: "oh this head is vtec, lets decrease our velocity to achieve 85% bmep, that should be alright cos its vtec head"

goof info here guise

[GSi_PSi]

Bumping an 8 month thread to spam isn't normal, but on ozhonda it is.


Ozhonda, not even once.

the lurk is strong in this one