Caster adjustment

[vtecing]

was looking at whitelines caster adjustment kit (specifically for eg civic), pretty much looks like a high tensile bolt + lock nut and a heap of shims. Looks like it goes through the front lower control arm and just pushes it forward, which makes sense.

Looks like some you could easily do yourself a lot cheaper. Just wondering if anyone else has done this or what you are using for increased caster

[liberx]

I had this installed a few years back, as the EG I bought came with it. Got a suspension workshop to do it. The measured increase in caster was somewhat disappointing. Whiteline claimed in their EG Civic project sheet using this to get a massive 5 degrees. From memory mine was still less than 1.5. Didn't get a before measurement, so don't know the change it made exactly.

More recently in addition to the whiteline kit (which hasn't had any operational issues BTW) I've installed the Special Projects Motorsport Hardrace UCA with spherical bearings fitted such that it sits the UCA back further, increasing caster. The end result is about 4.5 Deg caster which is working very well. Steering is now firmer with some feedback, and turn in is much more eager.

The combination of both is working well both on and off track.

[bennjamin]

Got the Whiteline kit installed in an old Eg

Did wonders - crisped up turn in and self correcting.

Problem is the whiteline kit added a series of washers and a longer bolt - bringing the lower control arm forward. Using a lower than standard tensile strength bolt plus the obvious pivot point where the washers are lead to premature wear on the lca bushes and ultimately shear the bolt.
Happened to a couple of members on here.

[evil R34]

i just went to a steel supplier bought some 6mm flat bar drilled a hole in it cut it to the right size and put it in the split of the 2 parts of the arm then went and got a longer bolt from a nuts and bolts shop worked perfect car feels heaps better on turn in but sorry i dont hav specs for how much it has changed

[vtecing]

would like to see how much caster it has now. Do you know how much yo had before?

[vtecing]

Also, here is some material for those interested.

1. Observe front tyre wear, road test car, note
owners comments and take the castor readings.

2. Support vehicle with the suspension at normal
ride height and remove the bolts holding the two
piece front lower control arms together marked “A”
& “B” in the fig.A

3. Remove the rear most section of the front lower
control arms. Press out the original captive bolts “B”
and replace them with the Whitelign high tensile
bolts supplied. Note that the Whitelign bolts are of a
slightly smaller diameter and longer to enable the
insertion of the adjustment shims. Ensure that the
bolts are inserted from rear & the nuts are located
at the front, as per illustration.

4. Replace the rear sections and insert the shims
supplied between the two sections of the front lower
control arms to achieve the required castor settings.
Please find a table below which may assist in the
selection of the appropriate shims to use. Using the
original bolt in the inner hole and the Whitelign bolt
together with the nyloc nut in the outer hole, firmly
attach the two sections together. One Whitelign
high tensile shim should be used as a washer under
the head of the replacement bolt and the nyloc nut
respectively.

5. Bounce the front of the vehicle to settle the
suspension, check the camber and castor readings
and then proceed with toe settings to complete
alignment.

Notes:
A. It is recommended that the above procedures are
carried out by a licensed workshop or tradesperson.
B. Only Whitelign high tensile shims should be used
in this kit, do not substitute with washers.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2ynjzew.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ntfj3n.png

http://i54.tinypic.com/szdcfd.png

[evil R34]

wat does the check clearance to outer bolt head for wheel offset first mean ???

[exquisit]

can you use traction bars to pull more castor in?

[vtecing]

Ive heard traction bars arent good for cornering

[bennjamin]

can you use traction bars to pull more castor in?

No because they do not alter the geometry of the suspension , more so limit the movement of the control arms ( stop wheel hop etc)

[exquisit]

No because they do not alter the geometry of the suspension , more so limit the movement of the control arms ( stop wheel hop etc)

ah ok
so the only way is to use shims?
=(

[vtecing]

Or offset bushes on the back of the front control arms. Super pro sell them.

[Benson]

You can run PCI offset bronze bushing to get more castor. They don't fail like bushing type

[exquisit]

interesting
is there a need to run more castor?
in a fwd... what is the pos and negs of more castor?

[bennjamin]

just a hint

You can DIY castor increase by simply swapping your front UPPER control arms around. (relelvant to EG/DC and EK i believe) This will increase castor , as it pitches the knuckle very slightly forward and this angle increases as the suspension turns and or compresses

[liberx]

interesting
is there a need to run more castor?
in a fwd... what is the pos and negs of more castor?

(+'ives)
* Increases neg camber when steering is turned (when you need it) - improving contact patch under load
* Stronger self centering
* More steering feel and feedback
* More positive /eager turn in response

(-'ives) - potential when overdone
* Steering too heavy
* Introduces bump steer because geometry is out of spec
* Puts stresses on some bushes due to out of spec geometry
* Your car becomes too much fun :)

[vtecing]

You forgot, can also increase 'anti-lift', stops nose from lifting up under load

[exquisit]

upper control arms = camber arms?


just a hint

You can DIY castor increase by simply swapping your front UPPER control arms around. (relelvant to EG/DC and EK i believe) This will increase castor , as it pitches the knuckle very slightly forward and this angle increases as the suspension turns and or compresses

[trism]

upper control arms = camber arms?

Well technically they are upper control arms in all cases, and only camber arms when camber adjustment is possible.

Ie: all camber arms are control arms, but not all control arms are camber arms.

[bennjamin]

upper control arms = camber arms?

Well , yes.

Refer to this picture - http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_UpperArm92Civic_1.jpg

http://img3.classistatic.com/cps/po/110304/626r2/3725bed_27.jpeg

Here is the same part , but from above/below .Note how it is offset - the idea is to swap either side , giving it + caster. Tiny amount , but for free its an idea.

[string]

(+'ives)
* Stronger self centering
* More steering feel and feedback


You actually reduce the feedback by increasing caster angle because you overwhelm the tyre feedback with the stronger self-centering force which is simply linear with the lateral force (i.e. useless information).

[exquisit]

thanks for that
=)

[Benson]

You can swap the arms, or what we offering is the offset bronze bushing in the upper cambers for EG/DC2 to maximise castor

[exquisit]

You can swap the arms, or what we offering is the offset bronze bushing in the upper cambers for EG/DC2 to maximise castor

these fit aftermarket camber arms?

[Benson]

Yes, only for EG/DC2

[beeza]

Damn that.

Is there an option for EK do U know mate?

[Benson]

unfortunately nothing for EK due to the design

[beeza]

Thanks mate.

[exquisit]

so whats a good 'street' setting for castor?

[vtecing]

as much as you can get. There aren't many negatives for having a lot of caster

[exquisit]

to get castor im using spc front camber arms
maxed out at +2 L n +3 R
good or bad? lol

[nzjdm]

you should only adjust castor with a wheel aligner to allow you to adjust the toe correctly to suit, you need to be aware of you camber castor and toe if you want the benefit.

please don't discount using wheel alignments they are so so important i cant stress enough!!! the key is to find someone who knows what there doing and understands what everything means.....

the people using the aligners are the issue trust me!

[vtecing]

to get castor im using spc front camber arms
maxed out at +2 L n +3 R
good or bad? lol

I dont understand. Your using camber arms to gain caster? How?

[exquisit]

like this kidna thing
http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/howto/egekdccamber/3.jpg

[exquisit]

castor is adjusted by sliding the ball joint back n forth on the rail

[stndrd]

im pretty sure that is just another design for adjusting camber. if you were to adjust castor on that arm it would be from left to right, not front to back

[exquisit]

theres 2 sets of guides perpendicular to each other... how can both adjust the same thing?

http://www.iapdirect.com/images/T/62010.jpg

[stndrd]

my apologies. i was looking at the previous pic on my phone. it is possible that the pictured arm could adjust castor as well but my question is how do you compensate for the adjustment in castor, when it looks to have solid brackets on either side that are connected to the camber adjustment bolts that prevents the ball joint from sliding side to side