250hp is the same as 250hp?

[pornstar]

I keep reading a fair bit about these comments, so lets take it into a tech discussion, as to the following statement:

250hp NA = the same as 250hp Turbocharged

True or false? Why?

Id like to hear some discussions as to why this is not so or why you believe this is true.

[EuroAccord13]

Does it matter how many HP is made from however the car was made to get there? HP is HP whether it's on the dyno or manufacturer's claim... Only difference is who gets there first in the RPM and where in the RPM :P... Heheheheh...

[wynode]

Once again........a NA vs FI argument.

It really depends on where the power is made, or more importantly WHEN the power is made IMO

[pornstar]

What if I changed it wyn, say 250hp at 10,000rpms v 250hp at 6,000 rpms?

both NA, and both achieve those hp figures at their max rpms, ie first car has a 10,000rpm limit, and the second car has a 6,000 rpm limit.

[bennjamin]

id be inclined to look more at the engines produced torque , and its relative curve settings rather than just a "peak " horsepower number.

[pornstar]

and why would u do that benjamin?

[00dc2]

take a look at some power curve's and start think about what they actually mean.. your engine is not stuck at max power all the time.. (unless you have a great cvt.. OT)

[pornstar]

great now we getting places :)

please go into detail

[spetz]

boosted hp is more...

Put it this way, a 1.8 VTEC ITR engine makes about 190hp but 178nm of torque (sweet F all to be honest)
Where as a 1.8 turbo engine making 190 hp woud have about 250nm or so and if set up right boost would kick in and you would get torque through a wide revrange.

There are of course many factors that come into this. But in a very generalised view turbo bhp is more due to torque and of course the torque curve which I admit isn't bad on VTEC's as well.

[simpdogg]

I have a feeling that one of the cars in question is a white teg with a carbon fibre hood!!

I was under the impression that the more tourqe that was produced at lower revs had an advantage cos that car would have a better accelaration down low = reaching the 250hp at 6.000rpm a hell of a lot quicker where as the 10 g one would not have the accelartion due to the power curve being longer taking longer to reach top speed. once both cars hit there 250 hp whilst both have aot of power in a race situation id put my money on the 6000 rpm car.

No dount ive proberly stated what someone else may of said but yeh my opinion anyways

[IRI]

I believe you will find, the answer to this question is quiete obviously the car with VETEK will kick ass. Regardless of the power output, or whether there is a turbo involved.... because of the HUGE torque increase when VETEK engages (often causing loss of traction to the front wheels). VETEK is vastly superior to any other kind of "TEK" produced by any other manufacturer. At the end of the day all that matters is that the sky is blue, the grass is green, and purplemonkeydishwashers. But i spose the moral of the story is that Andy is g4y.

[Hondavirgin]

I reckon bennjamin and 00DC2 had it right, it all depends on the power curve, and probably more importantly the torque curve...

and putting it simply, 250hp is still 250hp, regardless of how it gets there, no different measures depending on f/i or n/a.

I would think though that a 250hp f/i engine would result in a quicker car than a n/a, as to make that, a n/a would likely have to use high revs, and have a narrow power band, compared to the f/i engine have a broader spread of torque, starting from lower rpm and finishing at the same time or less.

[tinkerbell]

the total area under the curve turns me on the most...

[tinkerbell]

and putting it simply, 250hp is still 250hp,


it is a shame that it was not a simple question eh?

[pornstar]

yeah its for the brain this one... :)

what if the 250 hp that is made at 10,000rpms is made by a straight 6 NA engine, whilst the 250hp made by the 6,000rpms is by a inline 4? Does that change ur thinking?

[ECU-MAN]

1 hp is a unit, doesnt matter how you make it, at the end of the day 1 hp is 1 hp, its like 1mm is 1mm

like you guys say its got alot to do with the power curve and most importantly the torque produced by the engine.

[Hondavirgin]

it is a shame that it was not a simple question eh?

the question was "is it the same?". and yes, 250hp is 250hp, regardless of how its generated.

anyways, i mentioned in the rest of my post what i think actually matters, being the power and torque curves, a car with less power and a wider band will be faster than a car with a high peak power but nothing anywhere else in the rev range.

[wynode]

1 hp is a unit, doesnt matter how you make it, at the end of the day 1 hp is 1 hp, its like 1mm is 1mm


True, but the big argument is about HOW the two different engine get to that 250HP mark! Hence Tinkers reply of the area under the curve.

[dc2r]

I thought he only asked one question and that is: "Is 250HP NA the same as 250HP FI?"? He also did ask why it is the same... there is nothing about "how", "when", "where", or "what" in that question...

The answer to the question though is yes, they are both the same...

[tinkerbell]

the question was "is it the same?". and yes, 250hp is 250hp, regardless of how its generated.



I thought he only asked one question and that is: "Is 250HP NA the same as 250HP FI?"? He also did ask why it is the same... there is nothing about "how", "when", "where", or "what" in that question...

The answer to the question though is yes, they are both the same...

the original poster CHANGED the question,

but obviously no-one else really noticed?


What if I changed it wyn, say 250hp at 10,000rpms v 250hp at 6,000 rpms?

both NA, and both achieve those hp figures at their max rpms, ie first car has a 10,000rpm limit, and the second car has a 6,000 rpm limit.

just confirms my theory that hardly anyone on this forum reads the bloody posts before replying...

reading is easier than typing - why the feck don't anyone bother no-more?!?!

[Hondavirgin]

ok tinkerbell, my mistake.

But regardless of where in the rev range it happens, it still comes down to powerband for a track sort of situation, the 10,000rpm car will be quicker if it has, say a 4,000 rpm powerband than the 6,000 rpm car if it has, say, a 1,500 rpm power band...

Although, if you bring gearing into the equation, even that theory gets knocked out, as you just gear your car to stay in the band....

[tinkerbell]

so your answer is that it's the rpm band that plays the biggest role in being the fastest?

[McChook]

I'll refrain from getting to into this..

It is actually a VERY good question, I commend you for that.

It depends on the engine sizes etc, but I'm with Tink, I like area under my curves... That's why I LOVE the skyline...

[pornstar]

i wanted it to be a tech discussion, obviously this sort of question would lead to weight, torque, gearing, grip, which is why its a nice question to begin with.

Its obvious you guys who have answered know that the NA 6,000rpm rev limited engine is more likely going to be a bigger capacity engine with a longer stroke than say the 10,000rpm limited engine. Guess open ended questions are not at home on ozhonda :P

[Weq]

Well the inline 6 would produce alot more torque then the i4. As tinkerbell said, area under the curve, or maybe to be more precise, under the powerband in which the gearing allows for...