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toE
10-02-2005, 08:12 PM
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/featurepics/0473.jpg

Pre-Owned Performance - Honda S800

Words by Michael Knowling
Pix by Julian Edgar

A true Japanese collectable performance car, the amazing S800 sports was one of Honda's first attempts at a four-wheeled vehicle. It was spectacular enough to enable the company to grow into the large automotive power it is today.

Honda - now a global manufacturer of motorcycles, cars and outboard marine engines - first established itself building consumer motorcycles in the boom time after the Second World War. But it took until 1962 for the fast-growing Japanese company to release its first ever car at the Tokyo motor show - the S500 Sports. Due to Honda's roots, this car shared many of its design concepts with its motorcycle ancestors - hence the tiny size of the vehicle and its innovative engine and driveline. It came available in the choice of hardtop coupe or convertible form and was powered by a 531cc in-line four cylinder engine angled at 45 degrees to the vertical.



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This double overhead camshaft alloy engine featured class-leading technology such as a hemispherical shaped combustion chamber, a roller bearing crankshaft, dual oil filters and four side-draft Keihin (Honda designed) carburettors. Just like a motorcycle engine, it loved to rev. In fact, it would generate its peak power of 44hp at a lofty 8000 rpm - an engine speed almost unheard of in a showroom stock car of the time. And it is also rumoured that in full race-trim in Japan that they were regularly taken to over a staggering 10,000 rpm! Engine life, given these astronomical revs, was said to be very good.


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The driveline was another aspect of the car that took design cues from motorcycle technology. Honda decided to use a chain drive to transfer torque to the independently sprung rear drive wheels. This worked sufficiently well, however, its inherent chattery noise and low torque handling capability were its major limitations. Having received a warm embrace for their new car, it was in 1964 that Honda Japan decided to treat it to an engine capacity increase to 606ccs. The new car - dubbed the S600 - was designated as the replacement for the S500. Its 14 percent larger motor gave the car 57 bhp at 8500 rpm and 35 ft-lb at 5500 revs. Drivability was improved noticeably. This car was first imported into Australia in early 1965 - however, its list of problems included excessive noise, driveline harshness and a poor ride.

The best known of the S-series is the 791cc S800, which - released in 1965 - represents the final phase of the car's evolution. This car, too, was brought to Australia. It was visually distinguished from earlier models by its wire mesh grille, bonnet bulge, new wheels, revised taillights and the replacement of the dual wing mirrors with a single door-side mirror. It was much quieter inside too, with improved engine mounting, exhaust muffling and cockpit sound insulation. A larger engine that could rev less frantically was also partly responsible for its reduced noise.


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Based on the same basic block, the swept volume increase was achieved by increasing the bore 5.5mm (to 60mm) and the stroke by 5mm (to 70mm). Running a compression ratio of 9.2:1 (down from the S600's 9.5:1) this motor made 70hp at 8000 rpm and 49ft-lb at 6000 rpm (a specific power of a massive 88.5 hp/litre!). It was backed by a 4 speed manual gearbox filled with taller ratios to give a top speed of 95 mph (152 km/h). This compares to the S600's top end of 85 mph (136 km/h). Full throttle acceleration from zero to 60 mph (96 km/h) took 13.4 seconds and the quarter mile was claimed to take around 17 seconds (although this varied in contemporary motoring tests). Top gear now gave 12.3 mph per 1000 rpm. Think about that gearing for a moment. One hundred kilometers an hour (60 mph) was achieved at 4900 rpm!


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Under normal driving conditions, increased torque enabled the car to deliver much smoother take offs and it was considerably easier to go with traffic flow - although some revs were still needed to move off the line. That was no problem though, because even dumping the clutch at 9000 rpm apparently wouldn't give any wheelspin! A larger fuel tank (7.7 gallons - 35litres) was also fitted with the larger engine, despite it being able to return very similar economy - sometimes superior to the S600.


Interestingly, and largely due to the increase in engine torque, Honda did away with their chain drive system and employed a conventional live axle that was located by coil springs, trailing arms and a Panhard rod. This was fitted to all export models, with chain drive remaining an option in Japan. The newly suspended car's much improved overall ride was attributed largely to the rear end. One road test quoted that it gave "none of the last car's chain wind-up on get-away, and eliminated its tendency to wallow and die in corners when a wheel was partially lifted or lost a little traction". On normal roads, it was also less worried by rough surfaces and was less prone to hopping around when driven quickly. Another noticeable upshot of the live axle was reduced driveline noise that was previously caused by chain chatter. An independent torsion bar front suspension was fitted to all Honda S sports cars.

Spring rates were widely regarded as too high and the damping too weak while, further to this, only 20 psi inflation pressure was recommended for the Japanese-made Dunlop SP3s (under normal driving). Combine the low-pressure tyres and new suspension set-up and the result was understeer. On the track, the little Hondas showed large amounts of understeer in the braking area with milder understeer with power application at the apex. But a slight throttle lift off accompanied by a flick of the quick-ratio rack and pinion steering let you oversteer the car's 6' 7" (2 metre) wheelbase in any situation. Most contemporary road tests came to the same conclusion - its handling was predictable and enjoyable, though the ride was firm.


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At the time, the braking performance of the S800 was also regarded as exemplary. Unlike the previous models which received finned alloy drums all 'round, the S800 was lucky enough to get Dunlop Mark 31 9.4 inch discs at the front. They operated faultlessly with the car's approximate 640kg mass.


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The all-black interior of the new S800 sported re-styled instruments over the previous models, tailored carpeting and a beautiful overall finish. The whole package was backed by much motoring acclaim (along with some measure of intrigue!), and it eventually made its way to Britain in 1967, where it competed in (and won) evaluations against such cars as the Fiat 850 coupe, Triumph Spitfire and MG Midget. It was priced competitively amongst these cars, too, at 949 pounds - compared to the Fiat at 918, the Triumph at 991 and MG at 858 pounds. Reviewers particularly loved the Honda's slick gear change, good luggage capacity, 35-plus mpg economy and creditable straightline performance - especially given the size of the engine.


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When production ceased in 1970, the S800 convertible, hardtop and fastback coupe accounted for a total of 11,400 units. It had done exactly as Honda had hoped - successfully establish its name as a car manufacturer. During its model life, the air-cooled Honda N360 and N600 saloons that were released to join the 'S' sports cars. These were more economy oriented cars and many after it - such as the 1969 SOHC front wheel drive Honda 1300 and 1972 Civic - helped Honda establish itself as a high quality maker of conventional vehicles. However, it was while before the company again tried its hand at a true mass production sports car. Some would argue that the next real high performance cars came with Honda's patented VTEC system.

The first cars to use this variable valve technology were the early 90s Integra and Prelude and - of course - the wonderful NSX with its mid-mounted 3.0 V6. But it's the recently-released S2000 that is the car that most holds true to the great S800 - a craving for engine revs, wonderful styling and enthusiast's handling (albeit an awful lot faster!).


http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i4/0473_9mg.jpg


Source (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0473/article.html)

Chi
10-02-2005, 08:18 PM
10000rpms in carby engine!!!!!!!!!!!

toE
10-02-2005, 08:33 PM
Here's some insight and history on one of the earliest models by Honda.

Enjoy.

:)

ECU-MAN
10-02-2005, 08:39 PM
the S800M had 70ps@9500rpm and they canned the rear aluminium chain case indipendent rear suspention for a rgid axel

kenshin
10-02-2005, 08:45 PM
hmm i can see similarites between it and the s2000

spiller
10-02-2005, 09:49 PM
hmm i can see similarites between it and the s2000

Yeah i remember reading a story about the release of the s2000 and there was some mention of it being a remake of the s800, to mark the entering of the new milenium back in late '99.

wynode
10-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Where's PEte.........it'd love to read this (if he hasn't already)

jackosimm
11-02-2005, 05:46 PM
looks very euro style

panda[cRx]
11-02-2005, 11:33 PM
my uncle used to have one but he sold it :(

EuroAccord13
12-02-2005, 12:44 AM
I wonder how much would one of these fetch at today's market...

panda[cRx]
12-02-2005, 08:18 PM
1969 HONDA S800
Convertible 2dr Man 4sp 800

National average price - private sale* $3,700 - $6,700
Price when new (RRP) $3,163

kenshin
12-02-2005, 08:24 PM
lol ... better than the stock market...
100% increase

panda[cRx]
12-02-2005, 09:33 PM
yeah but compare the value of the dollar at the time...

bennjamin
12-02-2005, 09:53 PM
My mother , had a red one of these in the mid seventies .....stock as a rock and little moon dish hubcaps it looked gorgeous ( not that i knew - ive got soem photos layign around here somewhere ) .

MY guess is tho - she never woudl of reved it hard enough to harness those 44hp lol !

Pisty
13-02-2005, 03:52 PM
can you do anything to make these cars perform decently?

panda[cRx]
13-02-2005, 11:23 PM
f20c

CTR Coupe
14-02-2005, 12:33 AM
most of the fully restored ones are selling for around 10-14 grand mark. ive been looking for one to restore for ages.

faster and better looking than an MG.

Disciple
01-03-2005, 11:54 PM
haaha, that looks like a car a pimp would drive! :P GOOO HONDA rofl

DaPlaya
02-03-2005, 01:06 AM
very classical, very honda like to produce such a high revving engine

panda[cRx]
02-03-2005, 03:06 PM
well honda's roots is with motorbikes :D

McChook
05-03-2005, 03:23 PM
My dad had an S800 - race car

Godfather had an S800 - with a 4AGE....

crispy
15-03-2005, 08:18 PM
Those s800's are really cool. Full old skool racer. If i had the money id buy one

online
16-03-2005, 06:14 AM
i've had my S600 for about 10 years now.. the body was prepped about 6-7 years ago. it's ready to paint. i've got new Koni shocks for it, all new rubbers, new windscreen, new chrome mouldings. it will run 4 wheel disc brakes and a S2000 engine and drivetrain in it. :thumbsup:

panda[cRx]
16-03-2005, 08:15 AM
']f20c

and here i was joking about that:eek:

keep us updated or at least keep me updated :D

91'lude
16-03-2005, 08:53 PM
My dad had an S800 - race car

Godfather had an S800 - with a 4AGE....

4age in a honda. :( It lost its soul.

Spoon-Accord
17-03-2005, 01:42 AM
good old days ey??

dam.. looks like a morris

lolz

Kenny

racinghonda
17-03-2005, 07:40 AM
I saw one on Sunday, it was beside me and I deliberately took it easy so I could hear it. Boy, it sounded very nice with those 4 carbies. Would love to have one.

bd581
19-03-2005, 02:58 PM
Firstly, hi, i've just joined up. :wave:

Im a proud owner a a 1965/66 Honda S600.
Undortunately its off the road at the moment, which isn't unusual. It blew a hole in the top of a valve, and its taken over two years to get all the parts, new valves, gaskets, ring seal etc and to get the head rebuilt. All the parts are available, strangely, from Germany. They are priced accordinly!

They are an amazing fun car to drive, the noise is fabulous, truly undiscribable. Performance was understated by the factory. 90-95MPH is easily achievable if your game enough to rev it that hard. Problems are expensive ($1000 for an engine gasket kit)

Easily out run its competitors of the day, Austin Healy Sprites are no problem, out handle MGBs. Infact they out handle most cars on the road, even my daily car (a Pulsar GTi-R, am i allowed to say that here :p )

The worst thing people can do to these things is fit another motor. They halve the value instantly. Why would you want to anyway? it will destroy its charactor, and what else sounds as good and stops as many people when you open the bonnet?

The only downsides are reliability, price of parts, police attention (they hear it coming and get very dissapointed when you go past slowly) and people who say "oh, look at the sprite....... What a shame he butchered it by putting a honda engine in it"


Brad

panda[cRx]
19-03-2005, 08:44 PM
pics!

Campbell
20-10-2005, 09:21 PM
I note that that's a car from the SA Honda Club. We've got a grey Coupe in the Qld Club. Used regularly.

Campbell

Henpecked
28-12-2008, 11:04 PM
I agree, a very good car. I ran a red roadster from 1978 until 1991. Then i gave it to my father to restore when he retired , unfortunately he passed away before he retired so they have just sat there.:(. In all he had 1 running red roadster, 1 body damaged but complete red roadster with Koni shocks and a SS muffler and exhausts, a complete maroon red hardtop but with extensive rust, a fully stripped and restored red hardtop body shell with chassis, and about 2/3rds of another engine. Also a fair collection of spare parts. including 2 factory heaters and a factory fibreglass hardtop for a roadster. All S800s. we had original Honda workshop manuals for the s800, a Haynes s800 workshop manual, and the spare parts serial number and exploded diagram books for both the s600 and s800 models, great when trying to order new parts or sort out exactly where things connected..

than he had a S600 roadster with a Toyota engine in it that we never had running at al;l !

its all still in the shed.:(

further information here http://www.aus300zx.com/forum/showthread.php?p=838323

astroleo_1976
06-01-2009, 11:21 AM
I want one.. or two.. :)

040501912
07-01-2009, 01:45 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-S600-convertible_W0QQitemZ230317458253QQcmdZViewItemQQp tZAU_Cars?hash=item230317458253&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

s600 for sale ;)

minimetoy
14-03-2009, 07:52 PM
Do we know how much it sold for?

gstanmore1
04-12-2010, 08:52 AM
hey,is your car red?n purchased in sydney from a caryard?

gstanmore1
04-12-2010, 08:58 AM
hi,if u hear of one 4 sale,im looking,or a s800!had a red s60010-15 years ago[was my 2nd car]husband sold it when we split..

Henpecked
06-12-2010, 07:33 AM
none bought in sydney

dogboy
18-04-2011, 07:59 AM
Hi all
Just bought a little S800 cabrio and looking forward to getting it on the road...
anyone out there own one? also does the Honda S register run by Ron Adams & Josie in the 1980's
cheers
Andy (Red Hill,Mornington Peninsula,Vic)

vtecing
18-04-2011, 08:27 AM
Please post photos in apearence section!!

dogboy
18-04-2011, 08:31 AM
18396183971839818399184001840118402184031840418405 just posted photos in another thread but here you are

dogboy
18-04-2011, 08:32 AM
now to find someone to help me work on it !!!!

vtecing
18-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Hard top will be sick! please make a build thread

mooshie
21-04-2011, 08:52 PM
Awesome! I would love one of these cars, but you rarely if ever see them for sale.

Looks like it is in original condition almost.

Where did you find it and how much did it cost? PM me if you want, but I am really trying to find out how much to pay for one when I see it. I have seen prices anywhere from $8000 to $20000 and massive variances in condition.

dogboy
21-04-2011, 09:13 PM
Awesome! I would love one of these cars, but you rarely if ever see them for sale.

Looks like it is in original condition almost.

Where did you find it and how much did it cost? PM me if you want, but I am really trying to find out how much to pay for one when I see it. I have seen prices anywhere from $8000 to $20000 and massive variances in condition.

This car has been with it's owner since 1979 and yes...very original (I have the right carbys that will be going back on) I found the car a few suburbs away after advertising in local papers for one.. just lucky I guess
The engine was rebuilt just prior to being laid up in the 1980's and there is a small amount of rust.
I was very lucky to get it for around $10k but have been told it's worth about $24k
They really are getting hard to find with so many exported from Oz.. that and they are very desirable exciting little things...
I'm lucky to have got so many spares with it including a perfect door and Hardtop

Hasbeen
23-04-2011, 11:47 AM
Have fun with it dogboy, you are one lucky puppy to have found it.

I would have loved one, but had to settle for an S2000, which I bought a couple of weeks back.

I have never driven an S800, but back in my racing days, there was a lady who used to loan me an S600 when ever I came to town.

It was really great. I was racing a Formula Junior Lotus at the time, & it felt quite a bit like that. Particularly the engine revs & the ride. The gear change was a bit slow,
& I had to be careful with it. Feeling like the race car as it did, I was inclined to expect instant gear changes, which led to crunching noises.

Have fun with it.

dogboy
29-04-2011, 11:25 AM
yep...I feel pretty lucky
here is some youtube footage of me starting it...
looking for someone locally experienced in them as I may yet have it stripped down just to be safe..
cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hljp8TlJIPw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Have fun with it dogboy, you are one lucky puppy to have found it.

I would have loved one, but had to settle for an S2000, which I bought a couple of weeks back.

I have never driven an S800, but back in my racing days, there was a lady who used to loan me an S600 when ever I came to town.

It was really great. I was racing a Formula Junior Lotus at the time, & it felt quite a bit like that. Particularly the engine revs & the ride. The gear change was a bit slow,
& I had to be careful with it. Feeling like the race car as it did, I was inclined to expect instant gear changes, which led to crunching noises.

Have fun with it.