New 2012 Accord Euro from $29900 driveaway...

[boleh]

Just got this SMS from my dealer..

Pre-FL perhaps

Still a good buy

[Fredoops]

If its 2012 then it's post facelift.

Honda had to drop below 30k, since new VW Jetta pricings were released (it's cheaper than Mazda 6)

[boleh]

Called them to confirm. You're right Fredoops.

I also enquired the price for Lux Sat Nav Auto. $41k driveaway. This is the price over the phone. Can probably negotiate further.

[antony]

That is a very good price,and AMAZING value.

It is probably a manual one,with no options,and in Milano Red,the only non metallic colour.

According to Hondas website,that car should still be $33500...

Is it brand new,or maybee a demo ???

[Fredoops]

That is a very good price,and AMAZING value.

It is probably a manual one,with no options,and in Milano Red,the only non metallic colour.

According to Hondas website,that car should still be $33500...

Is it brand new,or maybee a demo ???

give it a few days for the advertisements to start.

[boleh]

Ahh.. It's already on their website

[URL removed]

Yes, I would expect the $29990 refers to the lowest of the low. Solid Color + Manual trans.

It's brand new:

"12YM Acc ord Euro
> 2.4 litre i-VTEC engine > 6-speed manual
> Premium 10-speaker USB/iPod® audio
> Dual zone climate control > Bluetooth®
$29,990 drive
away"

Edit: Not sure if I could post the dealer's URL.

[johnnyluu]

that's an excellent deal

[antony]

Its whats called a loss leader,which means the dealership has 1 car,which is advertised very cheaply to get others into the dealership.

By the time all the others arrive,the answer is SORRY,its been sold.

But whilst they are there,they might look at another car or two.

And once the loss leader is gone,its gone.

[I CU2]

You mean bait and switch?

[Lazarus]

You mean bait and switch?

They are indeed master baiters.

had to be done...

[I CU2]

They are indeed master baiters.


http://knowyourmeme.com/i/597/original/WUSOOCHSBE4XO67VZKCUTJRVQUGRMJF7.jpg

[SPQR]

they are indeed master baiters.

Had to be done...


...lol! Been there done....Er I mean, I've used this particular phrase before.

[antony]

You mean bait and switch?

Sort of..they have to have at least 1 car at the special price,but its a good marketing tool.

[aaronng]

Bloody hell, the manual Jetta is now $26490 driveway?! Cheap, but you get a 1.4 turbo engine though, just like Mercedes shifting to 1.8 turbo engines for their cars, no more smoothness.

[Fredoops]

Bloody hell, the manual Jetta is now $26490 driveway?! Cheap, but you get a 1.4 turbo engine though, just like Mercedes shifting to 1.8 turbo engines for their cars, no more smoothness.

The c200s kompressors aren't that bad, at least the 1.4 twincharge has "zing". The only issue is the tune for tsi is too lean for Australia... Resulting in quiet a few engine failures ( on the mk 6 golf)

But I expect that to be resolved since the new Jetta will be from Mexico with the Northe america tune, which should be a lot of conservative...

[MR_LATE]

^ very good, lol.. usually only hear 'master baiters' while fishing..
good work LOL

[antony]

That Jetta is cheap,and looks good too,but dont think the base model will be well finished,eg hubcaps instead of alloys is just the beginning...

And I dont think thats a drive away price.

[Fredoops]

That Jetta is cheap,and looks good too,but dont think the base model will be well finished,eg hubcaps instead of alloys is just the beginning...

And I dont think thats a drive away price.

Par alloy wheels, i dont think theres anything in the base model euro that Jetta doesnt have.

[I CU2]

What about a Honda badge ;P

[Fredoops]

What about a Honda badge ;P
I'd take a Vag badge thank you




... someone'd better get it

[I CU2]

Bait and Switch, now we got a Vag?

I am confuzzled.

[Lazarus]

mmm....
tried to think of something quirky in ref: to the vag badge..but nothing..

If the base euro is 29900, what's in included in the base? (not that i wanna get it bcuz i <3 my cl9 too much)
Do they even give a proper alloy spare anymore?

[azn_k3nt]

mmm....
tried to think of something quirky in ref: to the vag badge..but nothing..

If the base euro is 29900, what's in included in the base? (not that i wanna get it bcuz i <3 my cl9 too much)
Do they even give a proper alloy spare anymore?

my one came with a proper alloy spare :D

[praja6]

mmm....
tried to think of something quirky in ref: to the vag badge..but nothing..

If the base euro is 29900, what's in included in the base? (not that i wanna get it bcuz i <3 my cl9 too much)
Do they even give a proper alloy spare anymore?

Base/standard Euro comes with fullsize 17inch alloy wheel. Only the lux model doesn't come with the full size spare.

[Fredoops]

mmm....
tried to think of something quirky in ref: to the vag badge..but nothing..


VAG + badge.....

Must be an British slang cause y'all ain't getting it :-p
http://www.urbandictionary.com/iphone/#define?term=badge

[I CU2]

I guessed Vagina!

EDIT: Freedops, are you British?

Would you like some scones and tea? ;p.

[Fredoops]

I guessed Vagina!

EDIT: Freedops, are you British?

Would you like some scones and tea? ;p.

Apart from the redhead fetish. No, not British at all.

[I CU2]

I am confuzzled again.

[Lazarus]

Base/standard Euro comes with fullsize 17inch alloy wheel. Only the lux model doesn't come with the full size spare.

That doesn't make any sense lol.
You would expect the lux model to come with a full size spare. (this applies to CU2 only right? bcuz i got a full 17" allow spare on my CL9)

Also
"Dude, I wish I was knee deep in some Britney Spears badge right about now." from urban dictionary.. lol a bit outdated there.

[antony]

The reason the base Euro comes with a full sized alloy is that it fits in the boot.
The 18 inch would take up too much boot space.
I am thrilled to have a SPARE alloy,in case I scratch one of mine...

The base Euro is priced and specced very close to the Jetta 118 Comfortline,and they have similar equipment.

The base Euro looks fantastic,the base Jetta looks like a base model,with no chrome on the front or sides,no chrome exhausts,and basic interior,with single CD,no alarm,no dipping left hand door mirror...etc.

I am keen to check them out,but more the 147 TSI,which now has leather,but still no sunroof as standard.

[I CU2]

That doesn't make any sense lol.
You would expect the lux model to come with a full size spare.

Except the boot carpet would stick up a few centre-meters.

[boleh]

Drove to melb cbd yesterday and had some time to spare coz the traffic was good. Dropped by Volvo Melbourne to check out the all-new S60 T5 currently on $55,990 driveaway.

Quick facts : 2.0 I4 turbo / 177kw / 320nm / 6 spd "Geartronic" / 0-100: 7.5s

The T5 is the base model of the S60 range but it has features that easily rival Lux models of Japanese cars. I am comparing this to the Accord Euro Lux (RRP $43000). S60 misses out on the HID headlights and sunroof. However, the S60 counters with a long list of high tech safety features including a very cool radar-assisted safety system (a forward-looking sensor is mounted at the top of the windscreen). The 2.4iVTEC is no match for the 177kw T5. Lets not talk about its ancient 5-spd auto gearbox vs the 6 spd on the Volvo.

I didn't take it for a test drive as I can only stay for 15mins, but on static examination of the car alone.. it was very very good. The doors close solidly and the amount of force needed to shut the door is consistent with every door. (on the accord euro, the front door closes more easily than the rear. How I feel anyway). Sitting inside, you can't help but to admire the beauty and the quality thats built into every dial and knob..

Yes I understand I am comparing a $56k car vs a $43k. But the $56k is already driveaway and Volvo is giving away 5-yr/100km free servicing. This could cost up to $6k minimum, so the S60 T5 is really $50k driveaway.

I won't buy an S60 based on how it looks on the outside, but its good to note the market is getting more competitive than ever. Honda better be bringing out a 6-spd auto gearbox and seriously consider forced induction if they want to compete..

[Fredoops]

Drove to melb cbd yesterday and had some time to spare coz the traffic was good. Dropped by Volvo Melbourne to check out the all-new S60 T5 currently on $55,990 driveaway.

Quick facts : 2.0 I4 turbo / 177kw / 320nm / 6 spd "Geartronic" / 0-100: 7.5s

The T5 is the base model of the S60 range but it has features that easily rival Lux models of Japanese cars. I am comparing this to the Accord Euro Lux (RRP $43000). S60 misses out on the HID headlights and sunroof. However, the S60 counters with a long list of high tech safety features including a very cool radar-assisted safety system (a forward-looking sensor is mounted at the top of the windscreen). The 2.4iVTEC is no match for the 177kw T5. Lets not talk about its ancient 5-spd auto gearbox vs the 6 spd on the Volvo.

I didn't take it for a test drive as I can only stay for 15mins, but on static examination of the car alone.. it was very very good. The doors close solidly and the amount of force needed to shut the door is consistent with every door. (on the accord euro, the front door closes more easily than the rear. How I feel anyway). Sitting inside, you can't help but to admire the beauty and the quality thats built into every dial and knob..

Yes I understand I am comparing a $56k car vs a $43k. But the $56k is already driveaway and Volvo is giving away 5-yr/100km free servicing. This could cost up to $6k minimum, so the S60 T5 is really $50k driveaway.

I won't buy an S60 based on how it looks on the outside, but its good to note the market is getting more competitive than ever. Honda better be bringing out a 6-spd auto gearbox and seriously consider forced induction if they want to compete..

Knowing Honda at the moment..... They probably give us another 10 boring ass hybrids...

[natnat]

What about a Honda badge ;P


I'd take a Vag badge thank you

....


show me a street Honda badged car that has been done up like this:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6009/6006788240_2b5c1f5110_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6028/6006244179_f44ca3e480.jpg


and this one (on Aug11 Motor magazine Hot tuner challenge 2011):

R36 Twin Turbo Golf 650hp 0-100 3.4sec 11.3@126mph.

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75400&stc=1&d=1306310670

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75399&stc=1&d=1306310638

[CIV-18C]

Whoa!
Please PM more on that Scirocco !
I won't see it if you post in thread lol

[aaronng]

show me a street Honda badged car that has been done up like this:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6009/6006788240_2b5c1f5110_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6028/6006244179_f44ca3e480.jpg


How the hell did he get a Scirocco?!?!!? I am looking for one to buy!

Edit: Was through SEVS.

[natnat]

How the hell did he get a Scirocco?!?!!? I am looking for one to buy!

Edit: Was through SEVS.

http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?5538-VW-Scirocco-R-s-Now-In-Stock-from-67-900-Drive-Away

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa462/CPCsam/Scirocco/Allfront.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa462/CPCsam/Scirocco/Allsideon.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa462/CPCsam/Scirocco/Whitefront.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa462/CPCsam/Scirocco/WhiteRear.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa462/CPCsam/Scirocco/Whitesideon.jpg

The Siroccos in UK and NZ are on 1 year waiting list... i think pre-orders are being taken at VW dealers locally.. this importer managed to grab some of the top of the line R model in and drive away now!

Polo GTI is on 12 months wait.. Golf GTI / R are on 8 months (if you want one with specific options)..

VAG just don't make enough cars!!

[tron07]

With VW you would probably be very good buddies with the service center staffs after a while. My friend's brand new golf have had a few tow back to SC with the DSG check light blinking and no drive.

[ryaan]

With VW you would probably be very good buddies with the service center staffs after a while. My friend's brand new golf have had a few tow back to SC with the DSG check light blinking and no drive.

yeah.. heard the dsg and tsi engines on the golfs were no good...

[natnat]

With VW you would probably be very good buddies with the service center staffs after a while. My friend's brand new golf have had a few tow back to SC with the DSG check light blinking and no drive.

true that VWs tend to have problems, especially for owners who don't know much about cars (ie: never check engine oil level, no using the correct fuel, etc...). bear in mind, VW makes a lot more cars than Honda worldwide :)

you'll see 10 more VW's with problems among 1000 VW's and compared to say 400 Hondas.

Honda is simple engineering product, eg: headlights / windows / lighting, all wired in simple ways.

VW, headlights, windows, lighting, door locks, etc... all controlled via VAGCOM system. even the oil has to be specific, VW 504.00 / 502.00 / 505.00 / 507.00 etc.. approved only... 5L variety costs at least $75. you can't just chuck in $30 5L castrol magnatec.

VW do much much more R&D and come up with new technology; some work very very well, some just don't make it (eg: mk6 golf 118tsi engine failure i had last year).

but at the end of the day, i've seen many people from JDM who converted to VW's scene as they grow older.. :p

and there are many hard core fans who are crazy about 1974 VW Golf GTI and maintain them very very well...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/6038449774_b17d81eb4f.jpg

remember, VW is a poor man's Audi :p

almost every single part has both Audi and VW logos on it..

My GTI has an Audi engine...

[aaronng]

Has anyone priced a VW Jetta to a similar spec to the base Euro but with the 1.4L turbo engine to see how much that would cost?

[Fredoops]

true that VWs tend to have problems, especially for owners who don't know much about cars (ie: never check engine oil level, no using the correct fuel, etc...). bear in mind, VW makes a lot more cars than Honda worldwide :)

you'll see 10 more VW's with problems among 1000 VW's and compared to say 400 Hondas.

Honda is simple engineering product, eg: headlights / windows / lighting, all wired in simple ways.

VW, headlights, windows, lighting, door locks, etc... all controlled via VAGCOM system. even the oil has to be specific, VW 504.00 / 502.00 / 505.00 / 507.00 etc.. approved only... 5L variety costs at least $75. you can't just chuck in $30 5L castrol magnatec.

VW do much much more R&D and come up with new technology; some work very very well, some just don't make it (eg: mk6 golf 118tsi engine failure i had last year).

but at the end of the day, i've seen many people from JDM who converted to VW's scene as they grow older.. :p

and there are many hard core fans who are crazy about 1974 VW Golf GTI and maintain them very very well...

remember, VW is a poor man's Audi :p

My GTI has an Audi engine...

The 1.4 tsi had issues because the tune I believe. The engine runs very lean that caused all cylinder/piston issues. VAG tried to have the cake and eat it too with fuel consumpion and performance on the 1.4 tsi.

[natnat]

The 1.4 tsi had issues because the tune I believe. The engine runs very lean that caused all cylinder/piston issues. VAG tried to have the cake and eat it too with fuel consumpion and performance on the 1.4 tsi.

no man, had the tune reflashed by VW at 9000kms... but i guess too much VTEC redlining driving mode killed it at 16000kms... :p

[boleh]

So it's a design flaw.. damn..

Hows the current gti holding up?

[Fredoops]

So it's a design flaw.. damn..

Hows the current gti holding up?

GTis fine, both polo and golf GTis are fine, it seems to be limited to 118tsi.



Has anyone priced a VW Jetta to a similar spec to the base Euro but with the 1.4L turbo engine to see how much that would cost?

I'll do that when I get home I guess

[Fredoops]

Update: Had a look at the spec sheet between base jetta and euro (but Jettas got a bigger boot).

Jetta lacks: Alloy wheels, USB ipod (but has Bluetooth). And thats about it.

A manual Jetta base with no options has a driveaway price of $30105 (QLD)
A manual Euro with no options has a driveaway price of $33148 (QLD) +$3043 (more $$ for metalic paint)
A manual Mazda 6 (limited, so base spec, no alloy) has a driveway proce of $30749 (QLD) +$604

An automatic Jetta Comfortline is similar to base euro, except it gains reverse sensor/camera (like the lux) $36285 (QLD)
An auto base euro (bigger alloys, 17 vs 16) loses reverse camera $35,517 (QLD) -$768 (more $$ for metalic paint)

Jetta Fuel Consumption Combined: 6.2
Euro Fuel Consumption Combined: 8.7
Mazda6 Fuel Consumption Combined: 8.4

Go figure

[tony1234]

With VW you would probably be very good buddies with the service center staffs after a while. My friend's brand new golf have had a few tow back to SC with the DSG check light blinking and no drive.
Yeah i'm with Ron on this one.Heard a few VW horror stories too.I'm too used to Jap car reliability.Some of the new VWs look tempting .But??

[antony]

The base Euro auto is priced very similar to the Jetta comfortline auto.

Jetta offers a few things extra,such as reverse sensors as standard,tyre preassure sensor,stay on lights after car has been tuerned off,auto dimming mirror,and illuminated footwells.More toys,for sure.

BUT the Euro is still more substantial,offering chrome door handles,exhausts,and trim around the windows.
Tilting door mirror when reversing,alarm,17 inch alloys as apposed to 16 inch alloys,6 stack cd,10 speakers,lights in doors as apposed to reflectors,and paddle shifters.

Which one is better ???

On paper,Honda wins again.

I am going to check out the Jettas,and will report back again next week.

[Fredoops]

The base Euro auto is priced very similar to the Jetta comfortline auto.

Jetta offers a few things extra,such as reverse sensors as standard,tyre preassure sensor,stay on lights after car has been tuerned off,auto dimming mirror,and illuminated footwells.More toys,for sure.

BUT the Euro is still more substantial,offering chrome door handles,exhausts,and trim around the windows.
Tilting door mirror when reversing,alarm,17 inch alloys as apposed to 16 inch alloys,6 stack cd,10 speakers,lights in doors as apposed to reflectors,and paddle shifters.

Which one is better ???

On paper,Honda wins again.

I am going to check out the Jettas,and will report back again next week.

check out the boot space on the Jetta and the rear entry space. :-)

Regarding the sound system, I found the CU2's sound system rather disappointing.

[I CU2]

I bought the Euro because of chrome door handles too >.>

[antony]

[QUOTE=Fredoops;3075672]check out the boot space on the Jetta and the rear entry space. :-)

Yes,there are more advantages/disadvantages if the Jetta vs Euro.

No doubt,the Jetta is a very well designed car,as its boot is,and has always been massive.
And rear legroom is impressive.
7 speed auto vs 5 speed,although Euro is just as smooth,and is quiter,with more power,but also heavier on petrol.

Styling is subjective,Jetta looking VERY much like an Audi A4,but Euro more stylish,with its flared wheel arches ,mild body kit,and huge wrap around headlights and tail lights .

Euro is far better built in Japan,with BEST in class reliability,on par with Camry and Mazda 6.

Jetta is built in Mexico,and the 118 TSI engine has had many failiures locally,DSG auto transmission failiures,steering rack issues ,and aircon issues on some cars,not forgetting VWs famous squeeks and rattles,and then arrogant dealerships you have to deal with.

The mid sized battle is about to get even tougher out there...

[I CU2]

This generations Jetta is moving away from the Golf with Boot image, yes?

[antony]

Apparently VW want to market the Jetta as a model on its own right,instead of a nicely equiped Golf sedan.

1 MORE THING,vw are very aggressive,with the Golf/Jetta wagon,which is very bland,and 3 engine choices.

Honda should also have 3 engines in the Euro locally,being the 2.4,diesel DEFINATLY,and the V6 or even 2.0...

The wagon is so good looking,far more so than Passat,6,etc.

But I think they are sleeping,and happy to see their sales chug along...

[boleh]

I won't be looking forward to a Euro/TSX V6. Go read up on TSX V6 review. If I recall this model has a 62% front weight bias. Very nose heavy.

This to me sounds like an after-thought solution to provide more power to appeal to the American buyers.

They should've turbo'ed the I4.

[NSHonda]

Check out the latest Wheels mag, in the head to head review
CU2 versus Mondeo

CU2 wins and they still rate it the best in class
Not sure if their opinion really rates but it was 2008 COTY
The overall comments are IMO on the mark

[tron07]

true that VWs tend to have problems, especially for owners who don't know much about cars (ie: never check engine oil level, no using the correct fuel, etc...). bear in mind, VW makes a lot more cars than Honda worldwide :)


that lame excuse... I never bother to check engine oil level unless going for long distance as I know the car is reliable. I might have to check if the car is not reliable. for the correct fuel, people pumping vpower seems to have issues as well, so now its limited to certain brand as well?

This is like car lovers slaving for the car, kinda like alfa or peugot owners claiming that their car have soul when it breaks down and stranded them in the middle of no where.

I am no VW hater, I kinda like the direction they are going, force induction, good FC when driven slowly, etc, pretty tempted to get one to replace the euro but the stories as well as the service issuse and stories of vw denying warranty on stock car claiming the owner mod it makes me think twice. I am all for manual as well, so no worries of DSG issues for me as well. I will most probably end up sticking to my euro for a while.

------------------------------------------

Anyone check if the new euros fresh from japan got any trace of cessium 137 or other radioactive stuffs? I read some news that recondition are parts cars from Jap are found to be radioactive.

[tron07]

I won't be looking forward to a Euro/TSX V6. Go read up on TSX V6 review. If I recall this model has a 62% front weight bias. Very nose heavy.

This to me sounds like an after-thought solution to provide more power to appeal to the American buyers.

They should've turbo'ed the I4.

I agree with this.
CU2 is already overweight, a V6 would make it even porkier. Supercharge the K24.

[natnat]

that lame excuse... I never bother to check engine oil level unless going for long distance as I know the car is reliable. I might have to check if the car is not reliable. for the correct fuel, people pumping vpower seems to have issues as well, so now its limited to certain brand as well?

This is like car lovers slaving for the car, kinda like alfa or peugot owners claiming that their car have soul when it breaks down and stranded them in the middle of no where.

I am no VW hater, I kinda like the direction they are going, force induction, good FC when driven slowly, etc, pretty tempted to get one to replace the euro but the stories as well as the service issuse and stories of vw denying warranty on stock car claiming the owner mod it makes me think twice. I am all for manual as well, so no worries of DSG issues for me as well. I will most probably end up sticking to my euro for a while.

------------------------------------------

Anyone check if the new euros fresh from japan got any trace of cessium 137 or other radioactive stuffs? I read some news that recondition are parts cars from Jap are found to be radioactive.

performance cars just need a bit more attention..

my GTI only chews oil on track when driven at oil temp of 135 degrees for 15 mnts (and yes it has stock OIL temp display) , on normal daily drive it does not chews any oil.

a Mazda RX8 chews oil all the time.

i think some WRXs do chew oil too.

it's the little price to pay for high performance.. :) but could be just those cars above..

dunno about heavily tuned STI's / EVO's that do 250-400kw at the wheel. you can just ask them if they need to check their engine frequently..

a stock bone K24A does not need any attention, open the bonnet every 6 months is just fine.

the mk6 golf 118tsi pumps the same amount of torque, 230nm, as the K24A in the CU2.

[DanGamage]

true that VWs tend to have problems, especially for owners who don't know much about cars (ie: never check engine oil level, no using the correct fuel, etc...). bear in mind, VW makes a lot more cars than Honda worldwide :)


performance cars just need a bit more attention..


A Passat is not a performance car. So why would a passat need more attention than a Euro? That is a major drawback, if you think about the market segment.

On a side note, I have worked at Robert Bosch...who do a lot of work for VAG and some work for Honda. The engineers hated doing work for the Japanese (Honda in particular) because of how anal/tight they are and the questions/amount of info they ask for, complete opposite for locals (GMH, FoMoCo) though

You make it out like Honda do not invest in R&D and put a car together with 'simple' engineering (this is hilarious). Also you are comparing the R&D of the VAG group to Honda.
Just off the top of my head..
- FCX Clarity
- F1
- Hybrid tech?
Of course all of the above involves no R&D and is simple engineering. I might enter a car into 2012 F1 Season next year.. :)

Also could you please clarify the VAG-COM system, I wasnt involved in software side at Bosch. But if I am not mistaken VAG-COM is just a third party software (Windows based - yuck) used for diag work. All cars have a CAN-BUS system or similar. I'd be interested in finding out if VAGCOM is anything but a diagnostic tool (give me some reading to do haha)


the mk6 golf 118tsi pumps the same amount of torque, 230nm, as the K24A in the CU2.

A bit unfair comparing the volumetric efficiency of a FI car to NA car isnt it?

[I CU2]

Nsx..

[natnat]

A Passat is not a performance car. ........

the above oil consumption stuff was related to the performance cars driven hard and on track and twisties.

i don't think regular non performance Passat / Jetta buyers take their cars to such extreme.

i'm fully aware the F1 and hybrid stuffs Honda has been involved in.. i've owned 3 Honda cars and worked for a Honda dealership before.

the simple engineering i referred to was related to the electronic connections.

[DanGamage]

Amen to that!

Back on topic, I dhave some bias...but I will stick to my Hondas. I only know two people with VW's one rattles like hell and the other is brand spanking new ~1 week, so we'll see what happens there. The worse that I have experienced in my 3 generations of hondas (1xcivic, 2xeuros & Honda mower, outboard and generator) is a torn speaker on my CU2 (which I believe I caused...by pumping the volume up too high on a cold start). I am not going to have a wank over, base my decision on or justify my purchase based how much R&D a company sinks into their product or what CAN system/diag system...as long as I am happy with the product, that is all that matters.

[Fredoops]

A Passat is not a performance car. So why would a passat need more attention than a Euro? That is a major drawback, if you think about the market segment.
He's talking about engine performance vs displacement.


On a side note, I have worked at Robert Bosch...who do a lot of work for VAG and some work for Honda. The engineers hated doing work for the Japanese (Honda in particular) because of how anal/tight they are and the questions/amount of info they ask for, complete opposite for locals (GMH, FoMoCo) though
Germans arent any better.


You make it out like Honda do not invest in R&D and put a car together with 'simple' engineering (this is hilarious). Also you are comparing the R&D of the VAG group to Honda.
Just off the top of my head..
- FCX Clarity
- F1
- Hybrid tech?
Of course all of the above involves no R&D and is simple engineering. I might enter a car into 2012 F1 Season next year.. :)
Honda only supplies F1 engines, rest was outsourced.

We're talking about tech applied to mass market cars, theres no point talking about concept tech thats not applied to mass market or added to the corporate part-bin (no, FCX and it's lease program dont count).

Honda's IMA (Hybrid tech) while commendable, is one of the less efficient systems around, especially compared to the Toyota HSD or GM/Chrysler GHC

Regardless of all the robo-cop rubbish Honda put on their website, it doesnt matter if the company makes God-damn space shuttles, if its not (or cant be) applied to the mass market for consumers it means nothing.

The majority of cars (for all manufacturers) are made from the corporate part-bin and it's tech content is comparitively low, the current K-series engine (the bread and butter 4-cyl engine) is overdue for replacement. The AVTEC program(replacement for i-VTEC) was shelved back in 2007 (Fiat multi-air now passed AVTEC in this field). Insight hybrid was a disappointment, CR-Z was anything but 'sporty'. The i-DTEC n-series turbo engine is behind in both effiencity and power compared to the european rivals.

What do they have right now to apply to mass market (par the parallel hybrid system) models thats new or evolutionary?

The european emission standards is a big issue for Honda, the i-DTEC engine aint gonna do.


A bit unfair comparing the volumetric efficiency of a FI car to NA car isnt it?
Why not? With the way emission/CO2/fuel consumption standards going, most manufacturers will need to go the FI path.

[DanGamage]

He's talking about engine performance vs displacement.
If I am not mistaken, he said that VW have more problems typically for owners who do not know much about their cars...my old man has a CL9, knows nothing about cars...hasnt even checked the oil. Just gets it serviced.

Never mentioned performance vs displacement??!?!/


Honda only supplies F1 engines, rest was outsourced.

We're talking about tech applied to mass market cars, theres no point talking about concept tech thats not applied to mass market or added to the corporate part-bin (no, FCX and it's lease program dont count).

Honda's IMA (Hybrid tech) while commendable, is one of the less efficient systems around, especially compared to the Toyota HSD or GM/Chrysler GHC

Hang on, this might be a hard concept to grasp, but we are talking about research and development. The R&D conducted in the past few years is filtering into cars now. The big R&D projects being done now will be seen in cars in the future. For example, I'd hazard to guess that KERS or similar will be implemented in cars in the future. R&D projects that are being worked on now, we may/may not see in the future. I was talking about R&D, so yes there is a point talking about concept tech, that does not cater to the mass market...natnat seemed to make out (maybe unintentionally) that VW spend $$ on R&D and Honda do simple engineering. So why come in and say that there is no point talking about concept tech, when we are debating 'concept tech'

Edit-Don't get me started on Honda's F1 History. Yes Honda made the engines and the rest was outsourced duh! That has been common practice with Mercedes, BMW, Renault etc. F1 = R&D, simple as that...unless you are Toyota (just a joke)


Why not? With the way emission/CO2/fuel consumption standards going, most manufacturers will need to go the FI path.

Yes I agree with natnat there, he did raise a good point. But my point being that FI is always going increase volumetric efficiency, but can see how it is a flawed argument.

[aaronng]

Honda was known as a company that prided itself on innovation to overcome problems. The problem is that to survive in today's economy without much volume (they don't do much fleet car business in Aus for example), they need to reduce operating costs and focus on products that people will buy in volume in exchange for less investment into R&D. It is not a bad thing as I would rather see Honda still exist as a company rather than to go the way of Saab. Unfortunately for enthusiasts, it means that the main thing that drew us to purchasing a Honda (the engineering innovation) is now disappearing/diluting.

[boleh]

No one is immuned to changing global circumstances, which is why even porsche is building suvs these days. Ferrari is also considering a hybrid. And who would have thought just 5 yrs ago that toyota will have a proper sports car in production next year. Its all abt capturing a wider audience. Competition will only get harder and everyone is trying thngs they have never done before to stay alive. Honda the way i ser it... Not only did they stop doing the thing they do best, but they also did not explore new things

[tron07]

performance cars just need a bit more attention..

my GTI only chews oil on track when driven at oil temp of 135 degrees for 15 mnts (and yes it has stock OIL temp display) , on normal daily drive it does not chews any oil.

a Mazda RX8 chews oil all the time.

i think some WRXs do chew oil too.

it's the little price to pay for high performance.. :) but could be just those cars above..

dunno about heavily tuned STI's / EVO's that do 250-400kw at the wheel. you can just ask them if they need to check their engine frequently..

a stock bone K24A does not need any attention, open the bonnet every 6 months is just fine.

the mk6 golf 118tsi pumps the same amount of torque, 230nm, as the K24A in the CU2.

You mention "especially for owners who don't know much about cars...."

I doubt people who drive performance cars dont know about oil check or which fuel to use.

[antony]

I know nothing about cars,have owned 4 VWs,and now a Honda.

As a buyer,I think its the little things that count,eg the Euros centre console is neatly covered up.

The previous Jetta was also very neat,in that the centre drinks holder slid opened and closed,and even had a bottle opener with the VW logo on it,which was such a great idea.

The all new Jetta has 2 blank spaces,where you put your bottles into.

Looks unfinished,and very disapointing.

[I CU2]

Ya'll calm down. You can't have a VW vs Honda fight on a Honda forum, all your opinions are biased.

The peeps at the Toyota forum call us Euro owners lil rice rice boys who think they'll win all the time cause we looking for sick street cred.

[antony]

I am a VW person also,as have bought 4 new VWs over the years,and have persuaded many freinds and family members to buy VW,but think I am becomming more of a Honda person every day,as am so impressed with my Euro every single day.
Bur will visit a VW dealership on Monday...just for fun.

[Fredoops]

Ya'll calm down. You can't have a VW vs Honda fight on a Honda forum, all your opinions are biased.

The peeps at the Toyota forum call us Euro owners lil rice rice boys who think they'll win all the time cause we looking for sick street cred.

They ARE right tho in some respect... Theres a song about us....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbOlXjJb6Sc

That aside, I reckon the Jetta wont take sales of the euro... much, it will however make the Civic Sport and Mazda 6/3 look overpriced

[I CU2]

They ARE right tho in some respect... Theres a song about us....


Why are there so many riced Civics, is that a trend or something? I never understood that...

[antony]

For those of you interestrd in the VW brand,they have a very good forum as well,which is www.vwwatercooled.org.au , and I am quite active on that as well.

Am still thinking the Euro is the nicer of the 2...the boot lid and inside the bonnet is fully carpeted,the Jetta is not,Jetta does not have that compartment to keep change in,the old one did............................................... .................................................. ....................................

[praja6]

Personally i dont like the shape of VW and it doesnt give the luxuary look like Euro cu2

[tron07]

Personally i dont like the shape of VW and it doesnt give the luxuary look like Euro cu2

Get a Passat CC, its have luxury all over... lol

[I CU2]

Rather an A5

[denot]

I think nowadays people shouldnt by car because of the brand and the reputation of the brand anymore. I cant believe when my bro in law went to a honda dealer, and asked them "What good about the new euro compare to the competitor?" they first answer is "oh it has 5 star ancap rating!"

From my point of view here, 5 star ANCAP rating is not a biggie anymore. How many $30k+ car has less than 5 star now? The seller also mentioning all the features on the new Euro including the ones that I think not really a "great feature of a $30k+ car" (It has a CD player, Airbags, Audio controller steering wheel, 17" alloy wheels, etc etc)

Its either the salesman is a noob, or Honda just cant compete with the rest of the pack . We've made comparison between the new Euro to the Korean counterpart (i45, Optima) and if we forget about the brand reputation, I think there's many people will move on from the euro...

Dont get me wrong, my Euro was the best car I ever bought and drive, but Honda just have to step up on the design and innovation for their cars...

PS: Having said that, I cant wait for the CRZ! :p

[I CU2]

Why do you drive a C200k then ;o

[denot]

Why do you drive a C200k then ;o
I'm not... its a C200 CGi ;)

Nah, its a wifey thingy... She wants it, she gets it... :p Soon we'll move on to 7 seater though... and no, its not the Honda "Coffinmobile" Odyssey :p

[I CU2]

I'm not... its a C200 CGi ;)

Nah, its a wifey thingy... She wants it, she gets it... :p Soon we'll move on to 7 seater though... and no, its not the Honda "Coffinmobile" Odyssey :p

Any hints as to what it may be :cool:

[denot]

Any hints as to what it may be :cool:

Not sure yet... I'm not a fan of 7 seaters myself. So we might get something cheap but good (e.g. CX9, Teritory, Sorento or Santa Fe) but hey, lets not hijack this thread with my boring stuff :)

[natnat]

.........It has a CD player, Airbags, Audio controller steering wheel, 17" alloy wheels, etc etc...........

.

these things were luxury items... back in the early 90's for some people from remote rural areas..

car ads and salespersons that try to emphasize these items are simply... sooo left behind. it's like trying to sell a walkman in the midst of iPod sales.

Well... at least the new facelifted CU2 Luxury SatNav version now has bi-xenon.

[furythree]

i dont get what the deal is with the jettas...theyre so ugly.
to this day, i still havent seen a better looking car in our euro's category.

as a daily, performance doesnt make much of a difference, and i never plan on taking it to a track....thats what i pay my road taxes for


that being said, *sadface* that the new euros have dropped like 10% in price, but since its not a MAJOR change in price or features, im happy with my purchase because it took like a good solid 3 years for second hand models to drop to like 35k.
Also, i drove it like everyday during those 3 years while i was in uni. These days i work full time so only use it on weekends. So in reality, i had the best combination of use out of it.
Planning to keep it like forever....unless maybe when the toyobaru ft-86 II comes out and is priced reasonably at the 40k mark.

[SPQR]

For three week in a row now, the local newspaper in Darwin (there is only one newspaper here) has run, in its syndicated (from southern states) questions and answers section, letters from VW owners complaining about the DSG transmissions having problems, often in the first few months from new. The owners commonly report a not too helpful reaction from VW Australia; some being fobbed of with the "its normal" crap that Honda also uses. So much so that the particular Q&A section is now keeping tabs on the plague of VW DSG failures.

[antony]

I drove a 118 Jetta comfortline today,and its much the same price as a Euro base model automatic.

The Euro is STILL a far nicer car,with a far better finished interior,nicer looks,the new Jetta is very bland,and goes better,and you dont have to worry about engine or DSG failiures...

[natnat]

i like my CU2.

only complain: the torque of 230Nm@ 4200-4400 rpm for 1.6tonne of weight is just not enough! even worse when the car is fully loaded with 5 regular adults...

besides that, for daily commuting in the traffic, it's all good (besides 12.5L/100km economy).

for relaxed driving it's good,

for spirited driving, and traffic light gran prix against V6's and turbo's, it's the wrong car!

[alfS14]

i like my CU2.

only complain: the torque of 230Nm@ 4200-4400 rpm for 1.6tonne of weight is just not enough! even worse when the car is fully loaded with 5 regular adults...

besides that, for daily commuting in the traffic, it's all good (besides 12.5L/100km economy).

for relaxed driving it's good,

for spirited driving, and traffic light gran prix against V6's and turbo's, it's the wrong car!

It depends on your definition of spirited driving, I find the Euro more than capable for a sunday squirt through some nice twisty roads.

There is definitely a lack of torque and total power output but I think the handling more than makes up for the lack of power. Once you get used to the power band the car is extremely fun through the twistys.

But your spot on about traffic light grand prix! The Euro isn't winning many of them:)

[buddah51au]

Best price i could negotiate on a new MY12 CU2 Auto was $35,765 drive away. Included in the price are Tint, Floor Mats & Fog Lights. (car on order - pearl white again) I have a set of OEM 18's ready to be fitted - got tyres today.

[denot]

Best price i could negotiate on a new MY12 CU2 Auto was $35,765 drive away. Included in the price are Tint, Floor Mats & Fog Lights. (car on order - pearl white again) I have a set of OEM 18's ready to be fitted - got tyres today.

u got it yet mate?

[I CU2]

u got it yet mate?

Isn't it the one in his dp?

[buddah51au]

On order mate, no hurry. Give the old 1 a hard time for a change

[denot]

On order mate, no hurry. Give the old 1 a hard time for a change

actually from your display pic, the new model doesnt look that bad... but when I saw the grill in the real life... er... not really that good lookin after all :p

[buddah51au]

can always go the Modulo kit before i fit the clear bra, but it is the same kit as the series 1 CU2 & i wasn't keen on the Modulo Grille

[Fredoops]

actually from your display pic, the new model doesnt look that bad... but when I saw the grill in the real life... er... not really that good lookin after all :p

roger that... Modulo grill is like... compulsory lol

[denot]

wonder how it looks with the old grill... hmmm

[I CU2]

I thought that the dimensions of the new grille and old grille were different so you can't fit the Modulo grille without the Modulo bumper on the facelift?

[buddah51au]

I thought that the dimensions of the new grille and old grille were different so you can't fit the Modulo grille without the Modulo bumper on the facelift?

That's right, The Modulo Kit for the MY12 is the same as for the MY08 CU2, which makes the Modulo Grille compolsory. I Like the Modulo B/Bar, but not the grille.

Looking at the Accessory list for the MY 12 there are no fog lights listed which has me thinking, but as it is on the contract the Dealer will need to comply with that contract, even if it means they have to order the components individualy from a lux model.

[antony]

Nice,when will you get the new Euro ???

[denot]

Looking at the Accessory list for the MY 12 there are no fog lights listed which has me thinking, but as it is on the contract the Dealer will need to comply with that contract, even if it means they have to order the components individualy from a lux model.

MAke sure its a Honda's fog light and not some cheap ebay one then... :)

because they can say "Oh, it didnt say that it has to be a honda accord euro fog lighs" (this happens few times with ppl and the "tailored matt" - which some get the genuine matt, others got supercheapauto one...)

[praja6]

Denny,

There are after market foglights there as well. I didnt get foglight, but wheni ask for foglight price at trivett parramatta the guy at spareparts said they can fix the after market foglight for cheap. genuiine honda one is bit expensive... after market means they can get ebay one as well?

i am really surprised with supercheap auto matt they give with brand new car.....


MAke sure its a Honda's fog light and not some cheap ebay one then... :)

because they can say "Oh, it didnt say that it has to be a honda accord euro fog lighs" (this happens few times with ppl and the "tailored matt" - which some get the genuine matt, others got supercheapauto one...)

[buddah51au]

Nothing but genuine is acceptable to me

[buddah51au]

Nice,when will you get the new Euro ???

I have been quoted 3 to 4 weeks

[Fredoops]

MAke sure its a Honda's fog light and not some cheap ebay one then... :)

because they can say "Oh, it didnt say that it has to be a honda accord euro fog lighs" (this happens few times with ppl and the "tailored matt" - which some get the genuine matt, others got supercheapauto one...)

I'm not an OEM whore, accessaries just has to do their job, I'm not fussed where it's from.




They are all made in china anyway

[praja6]

Only thing is if you fit genuine honda accessories the warranty for the accessories will be also covered with the car warranty ie 3yrs/5yrs. If after market the warranty is just 1yr...

[Fredoops]

For the price of OEM... The aftermarket can be replaced one every year an I'll still be ahead.

[Tai]

OEM is only about $200-300 new, though my contacts.

[antony]

I have been quoted 3 to 4 weeks

Are you trading your old Euro in ???

[buddah51au]

yes, the old CU2 has been traded after too many hours of negotiations. The decision has been a long & difficult 1 to make, but recently made easier by a blind old women.

I also thought long & hard about sourcing a good set of OEM Lux 18's vs after market, but the choice came down to long term future if something was to happen to an after market wheel, the chance of replacing 4 if 1 was damaged on the goat tracks around where i live is what swayed my decision. The only non OEM item I am fitting is the Michelin tyres were way over priced in my opinion. after obtaining many quotes i was browsing the Goodyear site & found they have a special going at the moment where if you get 4 new tyres, you only pay for 3. I then found they have a newly released Eagle F1 Directional which seems to have good reviews & i was quoted $1,114 for 4 tyres. Even though i have never been a Goodyear fan it was an exceptional deal, so the tyres are fitted up waiting to go on the car.

[I CU2]

How much did you get the OEM rims for?

[buddah51au]

1600 including frieght from WA. They had never been driven on the road, changed prior to delivery - wheels only

[antony]

Your new Euro will look even more stunning with the 18 inch alloys,cant wait to see pictures of it.

What are you doing with the 17 inch alloys ???

[buddah51au]

Your new Euro will look even more stunning with the 18 inch alloys,cant wait to see pictures of it.

What are you doing with the 17 inch alloys ???

Hoping to sell wheels & tyres as they will be changed as soon as i get the car home, approx 7 km from dealer + any kms driven prior to delivery.

[ryaan]

are the new standard cu2 wheels like in gunmetal colour? ive seen some on the street.. but not sure.. it looks pretty cool though

[buddah51au]

17" & 18" wheel designs have not changed for the MY12.

[I CU2]

1600 including frieght from WA. They had never been driven on the road, changed prior to delivery - wheels only

Oh, off Jones right?

[buddah51au]

17" & 18" wheel designs have not changed for the MY12.

My mistake, I just got home from inspecting my car at the dealer, the new 17" wheels do have a partial 2 tone effect. Call it a darker silver or pale graphite between the spokes. Still has Yokohama Decibels factory fitted.

Obvious differences are new seat trim, darker silver dash trim, USB port, Bluetooth, total redesign of front bumper with 2 bar Chrome grille which to my eyes looks better.

The 1 thing i was unhappy about was a build date of Feb 2011, Australian compliance 08/11 which means it has been in a holding yard somewhere for several months. If this is the norm for all early MY12 models in Australia it could explain the discounted prices at the moment. Should take delivery next week.

[ryaan]

My mistake, I just got home from inspecting my car at the dealer, the new 17" wheels do have a partial 2 tone effect. Call it a darker silver or pale graphite between the spokes. Still has Yokohama Decibels factory fitted.

Obvious differences are new seat trim, darker silver dash trim, USB port, Bluetooth, total redesign of front bumper with 2 bar Chrome grille which to my eyes looks better.

The 1 thing i was unhappy about was a build date of Feb 2011, Australian compliance 08/11 which means it has been in a holding yard somewhere for several months. Should take delivery next week.

Oh thought so..cus I saw 2 standard fl euros like that..thought I had to get my eyes checked lol

[antony]

Yes,the new standard alloys have a slightly shinier effect...

[buddah51au]

Ventureshield Clear Bra Pattern already available for the MY12 Euro.

http://www.ducoscratch.com.au/proddetail.asp?prod=HondaEuro11FullKit

[Fredoops]

Ventureshield Clear Bra Pattern already available for the MY12 Euro.

http://www.ducoscratch.com.au/proddetail.asp?prod=HondaEuro11FullKit
isnt there a spray on version of that?

[buddah51au]

isnt there a spray on version of that?

Not to my knowledge - why would you want a spray on version? If a section of Venturshield PPF is damaged it can easily be removed & replaced.

[Fredoops]

Not to my knowledge - why would you want a spray on version? If a section of Venturshield PPF is damaged it can easily be removed & replaced.
found it
http://www.armorcoatusa.com/

[buddah51au]

found it
http://www.armorcoatusa.com/

Very Interesting link, I wonder how long before that product gets to Australia. After reading the PDF application chart I think it will be a long time before it gets to this country. My other thought is that it is requiered to be a minimum 6mm thickness, therefore it would always be visible. Ventureshield & 3M PPF have been around for many years & are well proven products. Installation companies are growing as the products become better known to the general public.