Euro Jerky Throttle

[splashalot2000]

Hi

Have test driven a 6-sp manual Accord Euro - love it - except for the throttle, which was very jerky on light openings, esp. going slightly downhill.

Is there a cure for this, or does one have to live with it. For me, it spoiled an otherwise oustanding car. :(

SS

[baboo]

It's the Drive by Wire thing. just have to live with it.
All electronic throttle are like that.

Bring back the good old cable throttle!!

[PERTH_EURO]

u get used to it

go back to a normal car and that then feels weird

I certainly wouldnt let that stop u from buying what is a freakin awesome car

[Pum[Z]]

Electronic Throttle baby!!

U got get used to it... After a while u should be able master how to change the gears smoothly...

With the old throtle cables u were able to rev the engine when pulling the cable within the engine bay... Wondering if u can do it with these drive by wires... Haven't really tried but looked at it and u can't seem to do it from the engine bay..

[coladuna]

My friend took mine for a spin once and commented that it's not one of the easiest cars to drive smoothly.

It's the worst in first gear probably because it's has the most torque available in first gear.

[splashalot2000]

It's the Drive by Wire thing. just have to live with it.
All electronic throttle are like that.

Bring back the good old cable throttle!!

Many thanks for the replies, gents. Seems I'd have to live with the throttle then..... :rolleyes:

Just to clarify a point - it's my understanding that the "jerkiness" is caused by the injectors being completely closed when the throttle is lifted. This is independent of whether the car has an electronic or cable throttle. For example, my current Subaru Liberty (cable throttle) has this same affliction, whereas our Alfa 147 (electronic throttle) is completely free of this jerkiness.

From my limited understanding - it the jerkiness seems to be a by-product of a desire to save petrol and cut emissions. The Alfa keeps the injectors open s-l-i-g-h-t-l-y when off the throttle - hence the ultra smooth transition between open and closed throttle. This jerkiness is one reason why I'm looking to get out of the Liberty - I was hoping Honda might have an adjustment for the ECU.... oh well.

Lovely car, the Euro - quite similar to the Alfa 156 to drive. Great blend of fun and function.

Thanks again, and enjoy your cars! :wave:

SS

[yfin]

I don't notice any jerkiness on the throttle

[yfin]

I certainly wouldnt let that stop u from buying what is a freakin awesome car

Shhh, keep it down mate. We don't want too many more people buying Euros... We need to say it is an "ok car"- - that is the common message we should be sending. :D

[albii]

i got to say that the jerkiness is quite annoying but i have noticed if you give the car some stick it goes away and comes back when you baby it again...must have something to do with the ecu limiting excessive fuel when driving gently.

[coladuna]

I don't notice any jerkiness on the throttle

That's impossible. This isn't a problem as such. All Euro's are like this. Always happens when you lift off the throttle and get back on the throttle again, especially when you are moving slowly.

[yfin]

That's impossible. This isn't a problem as such. All Euro's are like this. Always happens when you lift off the throttle and get back on the throttle again, especially when you are moving slowly.

I don't notice this when I drive the car. That is not impossible - I just said it.

I have read on acurazine that no throttle input = car turns off the fuel injectors - that is what people think causes the jerkiness when you re-apply throttle. Sounds more like fuel management than DBW.

[EuroAccord13]

Drive properly and the jerky feeling is history in our cars... :p :D

[sodaz]

I noticed this too when i drive at low speeds. Solution? Never drive at low speeds. :D

[Iraclis]

I agree the throttle takes getting used to with drive by wire. I've had my euro for over a week now and my only problem is that I find it hard to want to keep my foot off the pedal. Those speed limits come up awfully fast when running through the gears.

[D16Y]

yeah i find it real jerky at low speeds too

[PERTH_EURO]

Shhh, keep it down mate. We don't want too many more people buying Euros... We need to say it is an "ok car"- - that is the common message we should be sending. :D

i stand corrected
HONDA ACCORD EUROS ARE CRAP ok!! :D

[coladuna]

I don't notice this when I drive the car. That is not impossible - I just said it.

I have read on acurazine that no throttle input = car turns off the fuel injectors - that is what people think causes the jerkiness when you re-apply throttle. Sounds more like fuel management than DBW.

Dude. I didn't say the jerkiness was caused by DBW. All I was saying is that IT IS jerky when you get back on the throttle. You said you don't notice it when you drive your car, which is not possible because it has nothing to do with how you drive the car. It's just how the car is.

[aaronng]

Dude. I didn't say the jerkiness was caused by DBW. All I was saying is that IT IS jerky when you get back on the throttle. You said you don't notice it when you drive your car, which is not possible because it has nothing to do with how you drive the car. It's just how the car is.
Yup, the most irritating thing I find is at low speeds in 1st gear when the revs are around 1000rpm, the DBW can't decide whether to shut the injectors or to spray, so it sprays, stop, sprays, stop, and gives you a nice horse ride while you are at that low speeds. Hehehe... I stay above 4000rpm.

[yfin]

Dude. I didn't say the jerkiness was caused by DBW. All I was saying is that IT IS jerky when you get back on the throttle. You said you don't notice it when you drive your car, which is not possible because it has nothing to do with how you drive the car. It's just how the car is.

I said I don't notice it - why is that so hard to believe. The Euro is no more jerky to me than other manual cars I have driven. I am not saying you are not noticing this - I just think there are other things that are clearly obvious to me - like how the car tramlines, steering alignment, or the engine responsiveness day to day.

When I drive it today - I will see if I can replicate what you guys are talking about at low speeds.

[Type R Positive]

I only find 1st gear can be a bit jerky when trying to go slow in first.
Definately the instant response from DBW and unsteady foot.
Me trying to drive slow rarely happens though!

[coladuna]

I said I don't notice it - why is that so hard to believe. The Euro is no more jerky to me than other manual cars I have driven.

Just because the other cars you've driven were jerky, doesn't mean the Euro isn't jerky. It's funny how so many of the reviews I've read on the Euro also mentions this issue if it's so normal, not to mention most of the other people here that notice this.

[yfin]

Just because the other cars you've driven were jerky, doesn't mean the Euro isn't jerky. It's funny how so many of the reviews I've read on the Euro also mentions this issue if it's so normal, not to mention most of the other people here that notice this.

Your point is other people have noticed this and I haven't. So what? I am not saying anyone is wrong here. I accept others have noticed this.

I drove my Euro today at slow speeds trying to see any jerkiness on and off the throttle. The only way I got jerkiness was if I was off the throttle rolling in 1st gear and then gave the throttle a good prod (say 40%+ application). But I don't drive like that at slow speeds - I am progressive on the throttle at slow speeds as it is usually parking situations - eg driving around a car park in 1st gear I will be on and off the throttle slowly. Try it - there is no jerkiness at all when you apply the throttle gently and progressively from low revs. If you want me to shoot a home movie just to prove to you there is no jerkiness when you drive like that - i will. :D

[coladuna]

Try it - there is no jerkiness at all when you apply the throttle gently and progressively from low revs.

It doesn't matter whether you apply throttle progressively or not. If you apply throttle even tiny bit after coming off it completely, there's always slight jerkiness and I'm not talking about slow speed as in 'car park speed'.

[EuroAccord13]

Let's just rally Honda into going back to Cable yeah?

Besides, they claimed that it was based on the NSX's fly by wire system, I've driven the NSX before and it feels so different from the Euros... Much Better That Is ! :D

[yfin]

It doesn't matter whether you apply throttle progressively or not. If you apply throttle even tiny bit after coming off it completely, there's always slight jerkiness and I'm not talking about slow speed as in 'car park speed'.

Well that is your experience in your car. No jerkiness with progressive application in my car - even your reference to "tiny bit" aplication - doesn't happen in my car. This thread sucks - you just don't believe anything people say unless you see it with your own eyes.

[coladuna]

Well that is your experience in your car. No jerkiness with progressive application in my car - even your reference to "tiny bit" aplication - doesn't happen in my car. This thread sucks - you just don't believe anything people say unless you see it with your own eyes.

Because that's just how Euro is, unless you have a custom made Euro or something. No, it's not just my experience.


Talking of throttle control, the electronic system has a small dead spot at zero percent opening, making for a little jerk each time you get off and then back on the accelerator.


About the only downer in the driveline is a glitch when getting on and off the accelerator. Initially we thought it was a driveline snatch but further into the test we decided that it was associated with the action of the electronic throttle. The slight jerk makes smooth gear changes difficult, and it's noticeable that the cruise control can also be jerky when feeding power back in after descending a hill.

These quotes were taken from Autoweb's review of the Euro, which explains exactly what I'm talking about. From my memory, Wheels or Motors, or both, mentions this in their reviews as well. I don't need to see it with my eyes because it's the same in all Euro's. Judging by your comment about taking home video footage for proof, it's very obvious you are not getting what I'm talking about. Even if you take home video footage, it won't show on the video. It's one of those things that you can only feel when you are actually in the car.

If you still insist that it doesn't happen on your car, fine. I have no interest in convincing you otherwise. I know it to be a fact anyway.

[yfin]

I have seen those quotes before and I know what you are talking about. To say it happens EVERY application on and off the throttle is not correct. The home video comment was a joke - by the way.

Does everyone agree with Coladuna that this happens with EVERY application of the throttle - I disagree. It is not as consistent as that in my opinion.

[exISeuro]

Guys this "jerk" you are talking about, does it only apply with a Manual Euro ?

Reason being lately in my auto i feel a vibration as i take my foot off the brake and gently apply onto the accelerator.

Im not sure what it is, but i hope its not due to the fact that i usually rape my tiptronic around the twisties for 300km at a time , each week.
To compliment my fear of a damaged tranny, when i shift from P to R it is seldomly smooth but occassionaly makes a loud jolt. :(

Both cars that i have owned have electronic throttle and on both cars have felt tempermental and b*tchy.
If i rest my foot on the footrest (where the clutch is for u manual guys) or just have my foot idling on the accelerator, i feel vibration.

Of course this thing i experience is intermittent.

Again it could be totally unrelated to what yous are talking about here
Hope i am not thread jacking :o

[coladuna]

I have seen those quotes before and I know what you are talking about. To say it happens EVERY application on and off the throttle is not correct. The home video comment was a joke - by the way.


When did I say it happens EVERYTIME? It doesn't. I can't exactly say when it happens but it certainly does happen frequently.
What's incorrect is to say that it doesn't happen at all.

[coladuna]

Guys this "jerk" you are talking about, does it only apply with a Manual Euro ?


Judging by what you've wrote, I don't think you are talking about the same thing. This jerking is not really a vibration. I guess it feels like someone's pushing you into the seat lightly whenever this happens.

[yfin]

It doesn't matter whether you apply throttle progressively or not. If you apply throttle even tiny bit after coming off it completely, there's always slight jerkiness and I'm not talking about slow speed as in 'car park speed'.

Here is where you say it. There is ALWAYS slight jerkiness. You also adopted those quotes from the magazine articles which by assumption I thought you agreed with. Those comments in the article - I think you agree are wrong - it doesn't happen EVERY time.

I never said it doesn't happen either - I just said I didn't NOTICE it - read my threads. It was only when you commented that was "impossible" - I tested it out like I explained in this thread. I then discovered it DOES happen - but only in certain circumstances.

It is obvious other people don't notice this - why the question by another owner about whether this happens in the auto? Why - because they don't notice it either!

At the end of the day - we both agree to the same thing - it DOES happen - it CAN be JERKY. It has obviously never been enough, however, for me to notice until now.

I think we can remain in disagreement about the progressive / vs non progressive application of throttle business. ;)

[splashalot2000]

Hi

Have test driven a 6-sp manual Accord Euro - love it - except for the throttle, which was very jerky on light openings, esp. going slightly downhill.

Is there a cure for this, or does one have to live with it. For me, it spoiled an otherwise oustanding car. :(

SS

Thanks to all for your replies. It seems this is a fairly common issue with the Euro. In regards to my original query - does anyone know of a cure for it? I'd have thought it is just a matter of altering the ECU mapping for fuel cut-off points on light throttle openings. I must admit I'm a little surprised that Honda haven't released a fix for this, given their outstanding engineering abilities. :( Perhaps if all you owners start bombarding Honda Aus with e-mails of complaint they will do something about it :)

[coladuna]

Here is where you say it. There is ALWAYS slight jerkiness. You also adopted those quotes from the magazine articles which by assumption I thought you agreed with. Those comments in the article - I think you agree are wrong - it doesn't happen EVERY time.

Yes, it does happen EVERYTIME in CERTAIN situations. That's what I mean. For example, in situations where you come off the throttle to slow down to a red traffic light and it changes to green, if you get on the throttle to speed up again, it will always result in jerkiness. I think you are wrong, not me. Either you are not very sensitive about these things or you don't know what you are talking about at all.


I never said it doesn't happen either - I just said I didn't NOTICE it - read my threads. It was only when you commented that was "impossible" - I tested it out like I explained in this thread. I then discovered it DOES happen - but only in certain circumstances.

Dude, by saying you don't NOTICE it, you are saying it doesn't happen in your car. What else can it mean? Oh I know. It does happen but you don't notice it because you are slow? :) Sorry, but I don't remember you ever saying that it does happen at all.



It is obvious other people don't notice this - why the question by another owner about whether this happens in the auto? Why - because they don't notice it either!

I don't know whether this happens in the auto or not. What does that have to do with anything? You have a funny way of coming to a conclusion. I don't see anyone agreeing with you. In fact, there seems to be more people who agrees that it happens than the ones who don't.


At the end of the day - we both agree to the same thing - it DOES happen - it CAN be JERKY. It has obviously never been enough, however, for me to notice until now

Something you have never ever said until now. It amazes me how slow people can be when it comes to noticing these things. How could you not notice it after driving it for so long? It's as clear as day and night.

[yfin]

Dude, by saying you don't NOTICE it, you are saying it doesn't happen in your car. What else can it mean? Oh I know. It does happen but you don't notice it because you are slow? :) Sorry, but I don't remember you ever saying that it does happen at all.

I didn't notice it - big deal. I never said all others must be wrong - I just said I have not NOTICED what you were referring to. You have a very strange understanding of what the word NOTICE means. I am speaking ENGLISH - so read an english dictionary - then you will know what I mean by saying - I DID NOT NOTICE this.

And good on you for saying I am slow - a personal attack is always going to prove your point. All it does is show your true character.

[albii]

I didn't notice it - big deal. I never said all others must be wrong - I just said I have not NOTICED what you were referring to. You have a very strange understanding of what the word NOTICE means. I am speaking ENGLISH - so read an english dictionary - then you will know what I mean by saying - I DID NOT NOTICE this.

And good on you for saying I am slow - a personal attack is always going to prove your point. All it does is show your true character.
come on guys now its going too far..so what he doesnt notice it BIG DEAL get over it .......some guys enjoy fat chicks and some dont BIG DEAL and some guys notice the jerkiness and some dont BIG DEAL. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT IS THERE AND WHETHER HE NOTICES IT OR NOT ONLY HE CAN DECIDE AND IF HE DOESNT THATS GREAT.BUT IN THE END BIG DEAL.

[sodaz]

come on guys now its going too far..so what he doesnt notice it BIG DEAL get over it .......some guys enjoy fat chicks and some dont BIG DEAL and some guys notice the jerkiness and some dont BIG DEAL. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT IS THERE AND WHETHER HE NOTICES IT OR NOT ONLY HE CAN DECIDE AND IF HE DOESNT THATS GREAT.BUT IN THE END BIG DEAL.

Yeah guys there's no need to take this so seriously.

LMAO at the fat chick analogy.

[coladuna]

I didn't notice it - big deal. I never said all others must be wrong - I just said I have not NOTICED what you were referring to. You have a very strange understanding of what the word NOTICE means. I am speaking ENGLISH - so read an english dictionary - then you will know what I mean by saying - I DID NOT NOTICE this.

And good on you for saying I am slow - a personal attack is always going to prove your point. All it does is show your true character.

Yeah exactly. When you said you didn't notice it, I said that you either mean that the problem doesn't exist or you are simply slow/insensitive to noticing these problems. Thank you for making it clear that it's the latter. If you think saying that you are slow in noticing these things is a personal attack I feel sorry for you, but it's not my problem that you are taking it so seriously and personally. I don't care about trying to show my true character on an internet forum anyway so think what you like. :D The fact is, this problem DOES EXIST. Who cares whether you noticed it or not? I just don't think it's right for him to make it sound like this problem doesn't exist just because HE doesn't notice it.

[yfin]

Yeah exactly. When you said you didn't notice it, I said that you either mean that the problem doesn't exist or you are simply slow/insensitive to noticing these problems. Thank you for making it clear that it's the latter. If you think saying that you are slow in noticing these things is a personal attack I feel sorry for you, but it's not my problem that you are taking it so seriously and personally. I don't care about trying to show my true character on an internet forum anyway so think what you like. :D The fact is, this problem DOES EXIST. Who cares whether you noticed it or not? I just don't think it's right for him to make it sound like this problem doesn't exist just because HE doesn't notice it.

There are so many contradictions in your posts now it is getting ridiculous.

All I posted was a short post saying I didn't NOTICE it - then you say that is IMPOSSIBLE - obviously suggesting I am either a liar or some sort of idiot.

You then say it ALWAYS happens - yet later you say you don't know if it happens in the auto or when it happens exactly...

Saying "you don't notice it because you are slow?" -- that is exactly what you said - is not something that can be interpreted as anything other than a personal attack. It is the same as calling someone an idiot.

And by saying "Who cares whether you noticed it or not?" - is just ridiculous. The real point is YOU don't care what other people say or think and then try to prove other people are idiots. You did exactly the same thing to Type G on the Jazz forum. When you disagreed with him you said:


You sound so much like some chinese people I know. They are all stupid and can't even speak english properly even after living in Australia for many years and they all have daddys who have their own company. .

You are obviously trying to get lots of respect on this forum

[coladuna]

All I posted was a short post saying I didn't NOTICE it - then you say that is IMPOSSIBLE - obviously suggesting I am either a liar or some sort of idiot.

You then say it ALWAYS happens - yet later you say you don't know if it happens in the auto or when it happens exactly...


Haha. The word contradiction coming from someone who denied that such problem existed in the first place and then changed story to 'it happens sometimes'?? How ironic. Ofcourse I said that's impossible because the jerkiness is so friggin' obvious. :rolleyes: Have you tried reading other people's posts? I said it always happens in certain situations, especially when getting back on the throttle after slowing down. How the hell would I know whether it happens in auto or not? I've never driven the auto long enough to find out. Does that make me a liar???? You are so weird.



Saying "you don't notice it because you are slow?" -- that is exactly what you said - is not something that can be interpreted as anything other than a personal attack. It is the same as calling someone an idiot.


If that's what you think, I won't try and convince you otherwise. It's not my fault that you take in everything so negatively. I wonder whether mechanics would say average people are idiots just because they can't tell whether there's a problem with a car just from listening to the sound of the engine, for example. I would just call you an idiot if I wanted to, so feel free to comprehend it in anyway you want.


And by saying "Who cares whether you noticed it or not?" - is just ridiculous.


Actually it's not ridiculous. You are the one who's giving false information to other people by saying you can't notice it when it's CLEARLY there. Let's say there's an engine with its timing off and this guy says the engine's perfectly fine when it's so clear that there's something wrong with it. Should others take that person's opinion seriously? I don't think so. That's exactly what's happening here.



The real point is YOU don't care what other people say or think and then try to prove other people are idiots. You did exactly the same thing to Type G on the Jazz forum. When you disagreed with him you said:

I don't even know why you are even bringing this up. That thread started off like that because TypeG guy said Jazz is faster than Euro which, to any sane person, is a total BS. So disagreeing with someone who says something totally factless is wrong?? Was I supposed to agree with him? I don't know where you are trying to go with this. I didn't prove he was an idiot. Facts did. Free to keep bringing up that thread. It'll only help in making you lose your credibility.


You are obviously trying to get lots of respect on this forum

It seems like you are the one trying to get lots of respect, not me. Nice effort for digging up that old thread :D You must be really desperate to get some respect.

[EuroAccord13]

I vote to close this thread.....

[Splashalot]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but does the CU2 manual transmission Euro suffer the same low speed throttle jerkiness as the CL9?