Which is faster? A stock FD Civic or a B18C2 EG?

[Glocker]

Am curious to know which car is faster (straightline and cornering)? Lets say they had the same bolt ons (intake, headers and exhaust) and are manual rolling on 17in (for FD2) and 15in (for EG)... Lets hear your viewpoints and arguments in this.

[EKVTIR-T]

Compare the lap times & 1/4 mile using same driver for both cars and you have the answer

[v__]

hmm. i think the eg could beat it.
just cause its much lighter.

[dc2r-0636]

EG will eat it

[curtis265]

is this a serious thread?

[integragsi96]

Serious thread is serious!
The Eg will be faster, and better around corners in the dry because its so light.
In the wet you would have more weight to the ground in the Fd so you wont wheel spin so much at take off and less likely to fall off the road around corners.

[fitme]

even an ek sedan with a b16a will eat an FD2 on straight

[redefine]

Serious thread is serious!
The Eg will be faster, and better around corners in the dry because its so light.
In the wet you would have more weight to the ground in the Fd so you wont wheel spin so much at take off and less likely to fall off the road around corners.

wouldn't the extra grip given by the weight be offset by the fact that it takes more force to change direction/speed, meaning all else being equal, the heavier car will handle worse, even in the wet?

[curtis265]

Serious thread is serious!
The Eg will be faster, and better around corners in the dry because its so light.
In the wet you would have more weight to the ground in the Fd so you wont wheel spin so much at take off and less likely to fall off the road around corners.

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of traction - more traction comes when a vehicle has more weight over the wheels - yes the FD able to put more power down, but that power is required to accelerate the car

maximum horizontal force = vertical weight distrbuted to the wheel x coefficient of traction x whatever other coefficients
if say, a vehicle weighs double, i thas twice as much traction.. but also needs twice as much force to move at the same rate as the lighter car

i hope that makes some sene

also note the engien specs: the stock FD comes with either
K20Z2
Found in:
2006- Acura CSX (Canada)
2006- Honda Civic (JDM)
2006- Honda Accord (Europe)
Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore x Stroke: 86 mm x 86 mm
Power: 155 hp (114 kW) @ 6000 rpm (SAE net J1349 Rev 8/04)
Torque: 139 ft·lbf (188 N·m) @ 4500 rpm
Redline: 6800 rpm

or
R18A1
Found in:
2006+ Honda Civic (JDM FD1, American/Canadian-market FA1 and FG1)
Displacement: 1,799 cc (109.8 cu in)
Compression: 10.5:1
Bore & stroke: 81.0 × 87.3 mm (3.19 × 3.44 in)
Power: 140 PS (103 kW; 138 bhp) @ 6300 rpm (Japanese Spec)
Torque: 17.7 kgf·m (174 N·m (128 ft·lbf)) @ 4300 rpm
VTEC for economy 1500-3000rpm

they're not performance engines at all. The R18 civic weighs just under 1180 and the k20 civic weighs 1260... you do the maths on your egg


oh and wtf is a b18c2 lol . maybe that's why i thought this wasn't a serious question

[eg5civic]

Idk how fd2s compare to fn2's but I blew a stock fn2r away. Like pulled a car and a half in 2nd fro
60 and same again in 3rd and was still driving away from it

[u mad?]

Serious thread is serious!
The Eg will be faster, and better around corners in the dry because its so light.
In the wet you would have more weight to the ground in the Fd so you wont wheel spin so much at take off and less likely to fall off the road around corners.
no. just...no.




Eg will flog it in every way.

[eg5civic]

oh and wtf is a b18c2 lol . maybe that's why i thought this wasn't a serious question


Dc2 Vti-r integra motor

[DreadAngel]

http://thumbs.anyclip.com/tEKAqL5Zs/tmb_2700_480.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/muscle_beats_import_every_time_tshirt-p235939143063021170trlf_400.jpg

[Foxx]

B18 in EG = will win

[redefine]

fd will only win if you swap out for a d16

[Fredoops]

fd will only win if you swap out for a d16
or a K24...
http://autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20110829/CARREVIEWS/110829856/AR/honda-civic-si-review.jpg&maxW=630

[Riviera]

Lol eg will win fds are slow r18 sohc got nothing... And yea fn2rs are slow stock...

[curtis265]

another thing is... the R18 motor's not a race engine, neither is the k20z2... what point are you trying to prove?

[mugen_ctr]

another thing is... the R18 motor's not a race engine, neither is the k20z2... what point are you trying to prove?

What defines race engine? a dry sump setup with custom profile cams, with forged pistons, rods crank, ecu etc etc.....???? That to me is a race engine, not a b-series or K-series motor

Race = Motorsports

[curtis265]

my bad, wrong term - you are right, nothing's a race engine in stock form.

I meant say that it's not a performance engine. This comparison is like comparing a D series to B series.

[tripleuse]

Serious thread is serious!
The Eg will be faster, and better around corners in the dry because its so light.
In the wet you would have more weight to the ground in the Fd so you wont wheel spin so much at take off and less likely to fall off the road around corners.

??????

[eg5civic]

I fall off the road all the time.... And what

[mugen_ctr]

my bad, wrong term - you are right, nothing's a race engine in stock form.

I meant say that it's not a performance engine. This comparison is like comparing a D series to B series.

spot on.... cannot compare the two... unless u work the R18, it will never be as capable as the b18, despite being newer... how ever the K20z, although it was never designed as a sports motor, it can be modded to be like the sports variant K20, but than again any motor can lol

R-series is the new d-series imo

[curtis265]

^it actually is, the D died out in the 7th gen civic and R came in the 8th gen civic. the R engine is nice to drive with for a daily though, has good torque: something i miss.

[Glocker]

Comparing the K20Z in an FD:


K20Z2
Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore x Stroke: 86 mm x 86 mm
Power: 155 hp (114 kW) @ 6000 rpm (SAE net J1349 Rev 8/04)
Torque: 139 ft·lbf (188 N·m) @ 4500 rpm
Redline: 6800 rpm

And the B18C2 in an EG sedan (balance the weight issues out)

Displacement: 1,797 cc (109.7 cu in)
Compression: 10.0:1
Bore: 81 mm (3.2 in)
Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.4 in)
Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.4 in)
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
Power: 170 hp (127 kW) @ 7600 rpm
Torque: 128 lb·ft (174 N·m) @ 6200 rpm
Redline: 8100 rpm (Fuel cut-off @ 8200 rpm)
VTEC Engagement @ 4400 rpm
VCIS Engagement @ 6000 rpm

Then calculate the curb weight (EG is 1144kg, FD is an estimated 1300kg)

So the EG has 148hp/ton and the FD is 128hp/ton. For torque the EG has 152N.M/ton and the FD has 138N.M/ton. On paper the EG would eat the FD2 on the straights in pure power-to-weight ratio, but when it comes to cornering I think the FD has the upper hand, due to stiffer chassis and a modern suspension setup (independent rear wishbone suspension and a much better Macphearson struts up front).

[eg5civic]

more modern suspension setup? WTF how do you call macpherson strut a better setup than double wishbone suspension??

Hondas went backwards after the 2000's in terms of suspension design. Look at a new fn2r. Torsion bar rear end. Really modern. Sporty too if your comparing it to a swift sport. Ef/eg/dc/ek hands down best tuning platform Honda has ever released in terms of suspension and ease of engine swaps

[Glocker]

more modern suspension setup? WTF how do you call macpherson strut a better setup than double wishbone suspension??

Hondas went backwards after the 2000's in terms of suspension design. Look at a new fn2r. Torsion bar rear end. Really modern. Sporty too if your comparing it to a swift sport. Ef/eg/dc/ek hands down best tuning platform Honda has ever released in terms of suspension and ease of engine swaps

Sure, in terms of pure design the macpherson is a lousier set up than a double wishbone, but with modern tuning and stiffer chassis, results speak for themselves: FD2R is faster than an S2K on Tsukuba and just a bit slower than an NSX Type-S. A Mugen RR is only a 6th of a second slower than an NSX Type-R. A FF sedan with shit power catching a MR supercar (Source: http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/tsukuba.html)? Shit is unreal, there is potential in the FD2's suspension/chassis setup.

[curtis265]

an FD2 or a FD1 is anything but a FD2R.... suspension design may be similar but the FD2R is tuned and the FD's aren't

[Glocker]

an FD2 or a FD1 is anything but a FD2R.... suspension design may be similar but the FD2R is tuned and the FD's aren't

Yeah but the point is there IS potential. An FD2R compared to a DC2 Type R is faster around a circuit, despite being heavier, nearly the same power, and Mac struts up front. I was at a wet skid pan day with some friends, and a modified Evo 8 was easily the most rated car there...but did it get the fastest time? Nope, it was an 2L auto VRX Lancer (current gen) that won. Driven by a girl. By 3 seconds.

[eg5civic]

lol look at what your quoting, the mugen rr, a civic with a major tuning company backing it, doing major work, is still slower than a STOCK 97 nsx r and a STOCK 01 nsx type s.

Yes it is fast, by all means, but like all designs has its limitations. And you keep going on about this whole stiffer chassis thing, at the end of the day when its a race car they all have a weld in cage, and there once again comes limitations to how stiff, and you will see where the suspension is flawed and limited.

If you want to bring tuning company cars into it, ummm spoons street legal k20 ek9 runns 1:02s and so did their b16b ek9 with 1800cc stroker and that was way back in 97'

[eg5civic]

Yeah but the point is there IS potential. An FD2R compared to a DC2 Type R is faster around a circuit, despite being heavier, nearly the same power, and Mac struts up front. I was at a wet skid pan day with some friends, and a modified Evo 8 was easily the most rated car there...but did it get the fastest time? Nope, it was an 2L auto VRX Lancer (current gen) that won. Driven by a girl. By 3 seconds.

yes the potential is there, no you will probably never have the money to do the rnd mugen did to their civic to make it that fast.

And thats because the owner of the evo 8 probably couldnt steer to save himself. At the end of the day you could own a ferrari fxx and still be beaten by a stock car if you dont know how to drive.

And with that last point i'd suggest to you (before you waste any more money on your eg sedan on seats) to actually take you car to the track and see what you NEED to improve on your lap times at wakefield instead of reading on the internet that an fd2r with its stiff chassis makes such a good base for a circuit car, and thinking hmm if i put a million braces on my sedan i'll be as fast as an fd2r.

[aznboiio1]

the FD will win, if the egg gave it a 10 sec head start :D lol