2003 Jazz Auto VTi, noise in 'D' gear.

[zealot42]

Hi guys,

I just recently noticed the noise from the engine when I put in D gear, it has those clicking sounds from the engine bay and I can't really find the source of the noise...

However, when I put it in P or N, the noise goes a lot smaller.

The car is 2003 Vti model has 64000 sth on the clock and still drives smoothly, and CVT shifts very nicely too.

Has anyone else noticed or developed this problem? Or should I go dealer to have a look? Just afraid it could be a major as CVT are costly in terms of repairs.

Any suggestions will be really appreciate!

Thank you.

[ouch]

is it more of a rattle? cos it could be a rattle snake?

LOLJOKES. im thinking timing belt. anyone else? have you had your major service?

[zealot42]

Hi mate,I bought the car a month ago, it has 64000kms on the clock, hence I didn't do the belts and other major service as yet... I was thinking to do it when reaching 70000kms.
It comes with a log book and it does have reguarly service history though.. It's just noise basically; but did have a little bit rattle which I assume it is normal?

Sorry if im being a noob, I'm quite new here. :)

Cheers

[ouch]

haha not many jazz masters on here unfortunately. but this isnt jazz related. you like the jazzz!? cute aye?
umm if im not mistaken the major service happens at 60,000kms? if it hasnt been done, i think it may be time for it - and especially the timing belt. cos as long as the car is on, the timing belt will run, and the noise will still be there. But just wait and see if the jazz gods come down and can help you out ;)

[zealot42]

Cheers mate. I will have a look @ my owner's manual later. Yeh, it's a zippy and economical car, quite roomy as wel! I'm happy with it to take me from A to B point. I might go to visit a shop during weekend.. In you opinion, should i go to the Honda Homebush dealer to check it up or other mechanics shop I used to go ? :)

[ouch]

umm im not really sure man. i go to my mechanic (top one at arncliffe) or if something major then it will be hannys in smithfield. ill just say that a good mechanic will do as good of a job as the dealers, if not better. but trust the dealers to rip you off when something is wrong.

[zealot42]

yeh i might as well just go to my normal mechanic as I've heard Honda dealers are expensive! LOL

Hopefully it's not CVT issue, bcuz they r the bitch to fix up... I also wondering should I change my CVT-F more frequent than what service manual indicated? Because when i bought the car, the guy told me he changed the CVT-F every 20,000kms rather than 40,000 on the book.

[l.ho]

jazz uses a timing chain

[l.ho]

do you hear the noise whilst driving or does it only occur when you are stopped? and is it noticeable when you initially take off?

[zealot42]

I just went out for a drive, when stopped in D, it sounds like a diesel... Noticeable when take off, but not much notice when driving on the road man

[l.ho]

oh no :(. could be a starter clutch problem.

what colour is your transmission fluid?

[zealot42]

Fluid is a bit orange colour. It's a bit dark out there.

[zealot42]

btw, is it a common problem in CVT?? how much will it cost me to fix it?? Or is it going to be a big issue if not done?

[l.ho]

so it's CVT fluid in there... your transmission may need to be flushed (basically changing the CVT fluid twice), then you'll need to recalibrate the transmission. that will hopefully get rid of the noise. if not, your starter clutch may need to be changed.

probably best to consult your honda dealer as they would know more than me. they'll flush the cvt, and if the problem goes away, yay! otherwise you might need a new starter clutch. call up a few dealers for a quote for a CVT flush as some places may try to rip you off. you can also flush the cvt at home and save yourself some money, but CVT-F isnt cheap.

[l.ho]

its a common problem on the jazz. i had the same problem with my previous jazz. got a manual now XD. fixed it by doing a CVT flush at home, which cost me $190 (8L of fluid). I got a quote from a local dealer of $260, and $330 at another one. I remember being told that CVT change fixed the problem most of the time.

it just gets louder over time. i don't know what happens after that XD. i didn't want anything to break so i fixed it asap.

[GU357]

mine sounds like a diesel sometimes too, less noticable now, but it is if u stand outside when its idling.

but the rattle is more likely due to something else like tappets/ valve clearance or something i dunno.

but we cant just go blaming CVT because some of them shudder when you take off, i would be surprised if its even CVT related.

and as for service go to Honda they will use the right oil (higher price but if they screw up u can blame them becasue they are meant to know wtf they are doing)
if it was any other car that didnt have CVT i would say go to a good mechanic.


just take it to honda fork out for the service, get all the oils and fluids replaced tell them about the noise and get the tappets adjusted.

also:
How about S mode, does it still make the noise in S?
my theoary is that the noise is louder because in D mode the engine is under more load then P/N

[l.ho]

yeh i see what you mean. i actually had the CVT problem, which started out as a 'diesel' like noise, then got louder. it was noticeably different to the ticking noise from the engine

[zealot42]

ok i might call up honda tmr and ask about the price.. .don't have in-house facility for oil change though... When the car is warmer, the noise became smaller. sigh...

[l.ho]

just describe the problem to them first and see what they say. it might not be a CVT problem at all...

[zealot42]

@l.ho Ye, honda homebush is right next to my place, I might just take the car down to show them how's it like.

@GU357 Thank you for the advices man! I just went out for a drive. The shuddering mostly happen around 1000-1300rpm and after that it's hard to notice (maybe the cabin noise); In S-mode, it slightly lighter but I can definitely notice the difference.

If I don't fix this issue in a short-run, am I likely to face bigger issue? Is it still safe to drive the car right now? As I described in the beginning, the noise just developed a week ago and I can still drive it very smoothly without any hassles though.

Thanks guys! :)

[GU357]

@l.ho Ye, honda homebush is right next to my place, I might just take the car down to show them how's it like.

@GU357 Thank you for the advices man! I just went out for a drive. The shuddering mostly happen around 1000-1300rpm and after that it's hard to notice (maybe the cabin noise); In S-mode, it slightly lighter but I can definitely notice the difference.

If I don't fix this issue in a short-run, am I likely to face bigger issue? Is it still safe to drive the car right now? As I described in the beginning, the noise just developed a week ago and I can still drive it very smoothly without any hassles though.

Thanks guys! :)

The reason the shudder is at those revs is because thats when the clutch is disengaging, the shudder is caused by wear to the clutch, so whilst you go to accelerate from a halt the clutch slips/shudders after you take off and your firmly on your way (ie 20km/h or something) the clutch is already completely off.

mine still does it, its not a real probem it just sounds a bit wierd, my jazz is the 03 VTi with 120k kms on it i think and its still pushing strong. just put a nice exhaust on and you wont notice it.

but if you need your major service i would go in at about 65000 kms and tell them the problem whilst your at it, suggest the tappets.

you should be fine

[zealot42]

The reason the shudder is at those revs is because thats when the clutch is disengaging, the shudder is caused by wear to the clutch, so whilst you go to accelerate from a halt the clutch slips/shudders after you take off and your firmly on your way (ie 20km/h or something) the clutch is already completely off.

mine still does it, its not a real probem it just sounds a bit wierd, my jazz is the 03 VTi with 120k kms on it i think and its still pushing strong. just put a nice exhaust on and you wont notice it.

but if you need your major service i would go in at about 65000 kms and tell them the problem whilst your at it, suggest the tappets.

you should be fine

Thanks man. I was reading through the owner's manual this afternoon. It didn't have any service item until 70,000kms... Should I still do it? Thanks

[GU357]

in that case if it doenst need it till then take it in at the 70 000 mark then, like i said i had the problem before it was quite loud then after the service it was much less noticable. i think its normal to an extent.

have fun with the jazz, enjoy it. im lovin mine

[zealot42]

in that case if it doenst need it till then take it in at the 70 000 mark then, like i said i had the problem before it was quite loud then after the service it was much less noticable. i think its normal to an extent.

have fun with the jazz, enjoy it. im lovin mine


Yes, I agree! Thank you, man! You guys are awesome, being really helpful for a newcomer! Cheers!

[GU357]

The jazz is configured so that the engine is mounted to the CVT and then the clutch disconnects the CVT from the wheels ie, Engine>CVT>Clutch>wheels.
The jazz's clutch is multi-plate and built into the CVT (i believe) which means it has the CVT fluid running through it all the time, if the fluid is not right then it will cause damage.
some ppl say that Honda put the wrong transmission oil in their car and that, which would definately damage things but so far as i know Honda has not declared the actual cause.

in regards to fixing the CVT shudder i believe that requires a new clutch, Honda estimated me $1600 for a new clutch incl fitting, in the long run its probably worth it, but you never know if the CVT problem is ever fixed because the real reason for how the shudder came to be is unknown (there is only speculation), so it is possible fro the shudder to re-appear. if u can afford it ask them to flush the transmission using the Honda CVT-f fluid (im pretty sure its called CVT-f, makes sure they don't use regular automatic fluid).
if a flush is too expensive (which is understandable because its isn't cheap) then you could buy the fluid off them and just empty it and refill it yourself, or again get them to do it.

some ppl will also recommend having the CVT oil changed every 10 000kms (or every service - depending how far they are apart).

but i dont believe the ticking noise is due to the actual CVT itself, it might be another problem caused by the CVT, like an extra vibration causing something to shake somewhere else.
most likely tappets, once youve had them checked and they adjust them or whatever needs doing and its still there we will look for alternatives, it might just be normal and you have never noticed it (unlikely).

but either way its not immediately dangerous - my car has had it for a while and with that logic would brake down/ blow up because of it before yours, so if that happens ill let you know.

[l.ho]

honda originally used standard ATF (red) when CVT-F wasnt developed, and people started having issues with their starter clutch. the initial solution was to replace the starter clutch under warranty, but changing the transmission fluid to CVT-F later became the preferred solution (much cheaper). i remember reading somewhere on ozhonda that there was a free transmission fluid change (a few years ago) for jazzes still under warranty.

a few months ago i called up my local dealer and managed to talk to one of the technicians about the cvt shudder. he said that changing the transmission fluid had fixed problem every time, and the need to change the starter clutch was quite rare. the standard procedure was to flush the fluid, then if the problem reappeared, flush again. if that didnt work, the starter clutch needed replacing. he told me the shudder was due to contaminants on the starter clutch arising from 'old' CVT-F.

you should open your bonnet to check where the noise is coming from. if its from the engine, then you will most likely need a valve adjustment (tappets). if its from under the airbox (i.e. from the transmission), then its most likely the transmission. also have someone hold down the brake and select 'D' to replicate the noise. (im not actually sure if this will help, but its worth a try :P)

[GU357]

yes i remember hearing something like that, and even though the wear had already damaged the clutch Honda tried to tell us it wasnt there fault and gave it a flush, when it was brought up again Honda admitted it be there fault but then refused to fix it because warranty expired the month before.

[zealot42]

yes i remember hearing something like that, and even though the wear had already damaged the clutch Honda tried to tell us it wasnt there fault and gave it a flush, when it was brought up again Honda admitted it be there fault but then refused to fix it because warranty expired the month before.

LOL my warranty ran out already... I took it to my mechanic yesterday and he rekon it's normal gear engagement sound and tell me not panic on this... However, to ensure that, I'm taking it to Honda local dealer to have a look. :) I'm getting the CVT-F changed next service day, and also getting Oil Extreme additive as it's used by many Singapore Jazz owners to eliminate the problem, considering they have a quite similar climate condition comparing with us.

[zealot42]

honda originally used standard ATF (red) when CVT-F wasnt developed, and people started having issues with their starter clutch. the initial solution was to replace the starter clutch under warranty, but changing the transmission fluid to CVT-F later became the preferred solution (much cheaper). i remember reading somewhere on ozhonda that there was a free transmission fluid change (a few years ago) for jazzes still under warranty.

a few months ago i called up my local dealer and managed to talk to one of the technicians about the cvt shudder. he said that changing the transmission fluid had fixed problem every time, and the need to change the starter clutch was quite rare. the standard procedure was to flush the fluid, then if the problem reappeared, flush again. if that didnt work, the starter clutch needed replacing. he told me the shudder was due to contaminants on the starter clutch arising from 'old' CVT-F.

you should open your bonnet to check where the noise is coming from. if its from the engine, then you will most likely need a valve adjustment (tappets). if its from under the airbox (i.e. from the transmission), then its most likely the transmission. also have someone hold down the brake and select 'D' to replicate the noise. (im not actually sure if this will help, but its worth a try :P)

I did try to manipulate the noise, sometimes good sometimes bad... It's more likely to appear when the car was cold.

[GU357]

I did try to manipulate the noise, sometimes good sometimes bad... It's more likely to appear when the car was cold.

when its runnig everything warms up and is in the right shape so vibrations are bound to reduce, ontop of that when cold the jazz revs higher (around 1500RPM) when the engine warms up the revs drop (to around 1000)

[zealot42]

Cheers =] i will update this after i visit a dealer :)

[GU357]

yeh, that would be best, as there is no point going any sooner then the next service.