FD2 Performance Upgrade Options

[Mr Abzii]

Hey guys, I own a FD2 which is the civic sport featuring the k20z2 engine which performs at the following specs:

Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore x Stroke: 86 mm x 86 mm
Power: 155 hp (114 kW) @ 6000 rpm (SAE net J1349 Rev 8/04)
Torque: 139 ft·lbf (188 N·m) @ 4500 rpm
Redline: 6800 rpm

My initial plan was to just install bolt ons such as
RBC Intake Manifold $ 395
Injen CAI $ 450
Headers $ 250
X Force Cat Back $ 800
PiggyBack Ecu + Tune $ 1000
Total : $ 2895

Although now i am considering super charging, turbo charging or a swap with a higher powered k series engine. So the question is what power gains and costs should i expect from either of the options.

1.) Bolt ons
2.) Turbo Charging
3.) Supercharging
4.) Engine Swap

Any suggestions on which option i should go with and things i should look out for would also be useful =] with either option i am looking for roughly type r performance and have a limit of $10,000 budget.

[CitizenErased]

what type of injen CAI did you get for your fd2? im planning to get one but not sure to which one would be right..

[DakDak]

Ask yourself this - What do you want to do with this car? Before you even buy a mod. Street warrior? Hill climb? Daily driver with some oompf? etc This way you can put things into perspective, and find a better solution to your needs.

[xenonkuraz]

Hey mate. The best bang for buck mod would be turbo charging your car. But to appreciate the power you should initially do those small mods to mentioned. But don't do them all at once...you'll learn to appreciate each part more this way.

I would mod in this order:

1. Intake
2. Catback exhaust
3. Headers (if you don't think you'll turbo charge down the track, also good if you decide to supercharge)
4. RBC intake manifold
5. Forced induction.

Atleast this way you will be more prepared for the power...but keep in mind you may also need to upgrade your brakes and clutch.

That covers the basic performance mods.

Don't forget you also need handling mods, ie suspension, sway bars, wheels and tyres.

[Mr Abzii]

what type of injen CAI did you get for your fd2? im planning to get one but not sure to which one would be right..

The one that is specified for the FD2 from JDM YARD although you need a RBC intake manifold aswell, EG5 on ozhonda sells both items im sure he can help you out. And then there is the other cheaper alternatives such as Simota Carbon Charger 2 intake, but it probably isnt as effective in enchaning performance as Injen.


Ask yourself this - What do you want to do with this car? Before you even buy a mod. Street warrior? Hill climb? Daily driver with some oompf? etc This way you can put things into perspective, and find a better solution to your needs.

Cross between daily and street warrior, i want power but not so much that it significantly affects the longevity and driveabilty of the car.


Hey mate. The best bang for buck mod would be turbo charging your car. But to appreciate the power you should initially do those small mods to mentioned. But don't do them all at once...you'll learn to appreciate each part more this way.

Yeah thats what i had in mind aswell, steadily get the bolt ons installed in the order you mentioned and then go for the forced induction at the end.

Can anyone give me a rough figure on the gains i should expect from all the bolt on i mentioned in my initial post with the piggyback ecu tune ?
Its 114 kw stock, i believe it would reach 130+ kw. Is that hoping to high, or is it reasonable ?

Btw thanks for the feedback guys.

[DakDak]

The one that is specified for the FD2 from JDM YARD although you need a RBC intake manifold aswell, EG5 on ozhonda sells both items im sure he can help you out. And then there is the other cheaper alternatives such as Simota Carbon Charger 2 intake, but it probably isnt as effective in enchaning performance as Injen.

Making gains NA is going to be very, very expensive. I used to have an Injen now Gruppem. I hate Injens cause it got my engine hydraulic lock one rainy night. The gruppem is good but its cost me like 1100. If I could do it again I would just make my own.

As mentioned above turbocharging is the cheapest way to get horsepower per dollar spent. If you go for sensible boost like 6-8 psi I dont see why the k20z wouldnt last. It really depends on your tuner and a good kit. If you have one and not the other its going to fail.

Yea you should be able to hit 130 with those mods. Again, its all about the tuner, all those items mentioned would give small gains until the tune.

[Mr Abzii]

Making gains NA is going to be very, very expensive. I used to have an Injen now Gruppem. I hate Injens cause it got my engine hydraulic lock one rainy night. The gruppem is good but its cost me like 1100. If I could do it again I would just make my own.

As mentioned above turbocharging is the cheapest way to get horsepower per dollar spent. If you go for sensible boost like 6-8 psi I dont see why the k20z wouldnt last. It really depends on your tuner and a good kit. If you have one and not the other its going to fail.

Yea you should be able to hit 130 with those mods. Again, its all about the tuner, all those items mentioned would give small gains until the tune.

Making my own CAI sounds like the most cost efficient way but im not very mechanical minded so i wouldnt trust my own DIY work in the engine bay yet. I considered groupem aswell but the cost turned me off, im going to pick up Injen Cai today. I hope i dont run into the same problem as you did, im suprised your engine got hydraulic locked from the intake. Dont you need water level as high as the filter, how did you experience that in sydney and what options are there to counteract that problem.

Yeah a good tune is necessary to make the most of all aftermarket engine mods, is there any tuner you could recommend me in sydney ?

[black8thgen]

if its a really rainy day, and theres huge puddles in the road (which there often is with the shit sydney roads), if you just so happen to be on full throttle (which you shouldnt in the rain with a CAI) the filter will suck up all the water and ur effed. but i believe it does need to be quite a big puddle lol.

in regards to the mods... i kinda gave up tryna find power for the k20z1 based on difficulty in finding quality parts with gains and also lack of tuners for the engine. Most tuners are more familiar with k20a and k24s or the k20z in the dc5s. But despite that, I'm sure you'll be able to get some guidelines from guys in the states who've done pretty decent mods to their civics and made good power both NA and after FI.

[xenonkuraz]

I made my own short ram intake. It worked a gem. Seriously don't drop off 500-1000 for an intake. Just not worth it.

Here's my car at the workshop today:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9075/img1684o.jpg

Will be picking it up in a few hours :)

[black8thgen]

exciting =D

[Mr Abzii]

if its a really rainy day, and theres huge puddles in the road (which there often is with the shit sydney roads), if you just so happen to be on full throttle (which you shouldnt in the rain with a CAI) the filter will suck up all the water and ur effed. but i believe it does need to be quite a big puddle lol.

in regards to the mods... i kinda gave up tryna find power for the k20z1 based on difficulty in finding quality parts with gains and also lack of tuners for the engine. Most tuners are more familiar with k20a and k24s or the k20z in the dc5s. But despite that, I'm sure you'll be able to get some guidelines from guys in the states who've done pretty decent mods to their civics and made good power both NA and after FI.

Thanks for the heads up, Ill make sure im really carefull with the throttle in the rain. Yeah i keep an eye on the threads from the 8th gen civic forum, they have nearly everything covered.


I made my own short ram intake. It worked a gem. Seriously don't drop off 500-1000 for an intake. Just not worth it.

Nice man, wish i could do something like that myself. but the sad truth is that i can't. If i could, i would :)
Have you got the final figures of the output atw of the FD2T ?

I just bought the RBC intake manifold and the Injen CAI. Im getting quotes for installation, whats a reasonable price for installation?

[xenonkuraz]

Again I'd be installing it myself...haha but since you're not keen expect to pay 2-3 hours labour.

The intake manifold without tuning may cause problems however...another forum member on here did it on his car and had to use flashpro with an american ecu to tune it to stop the car from frequently stalling

[Mr Abzii]

Yeah, I will get it tuned ASAP after everything is installed. I hope this doesn't turn into one of those cel horror stories that I have heard of with other fd owners installing intakes, I have yet too see someone install this intake on their FD2. If worst comes to worst ill turn to the one who sold and recommended it to me and let them handle it. Any recommendations on what ecu management device I should use ? Hondata has nothing compatible with the k20z2, so a piggyback ecu chip will have to suffice.

[xenonkuraz]

Yes Hondata will is not compatible unless you use a U.S model ECU.

I'm using Emanage Ultimate and it works pretty well.

[stndrd]

Get a Haltech ECU (www.haltech.com). There isn't a direct plug'n'play, but they will have something available for you. Very easy to find a tuner for it and good backing as it is Australian made & owned

[Baygon]

if its a really rainy day, and theres huge puddles in the road (which there often is with the shit sydney roads), if you just so happen to be on full throttle (which you shouldnt in the rain with a CAI) the filter will suck up all the water and ur effed. but i believe it does need to be quite a big puddle lol.

I heard a hydroshield works wonders for days like that.

[Mr Abzii]

Yes Hondata will is not compatible unless you use a U.S model ECU.

I'm using Emanage Ultimate and it works pretty well.

Oh k is there i significant difference if i choose either ? Ill probably go for the cheaper and easier alternative, Emanage Ultimate.


Get a Haltech ECU (www.haltech.com). There isn't a direct plug'n'play, but they will have something available for you. Very easy to find a tuner for it and good backing as it is Australian made & owned


Yeah there products look pretty good, ill look into it. thanks for the recommendation.


I heard a hydroshield works wonders for days like that.

Yeah i have heard the Hydo Shields work well but the affect it has on the little gains and sound achieved by the intake is reduced a very little bit even though it would be hardly noticeable. Any other methods of countering it other then putting a Hydro Shield over the intake ?

[Mr Abzii]

Installed the RBC intake manifold and Injen Intake today, Results were dissapointing. Best of stock dyno runs 91 kw atw, best of after installation runs 99.2 kw atw. Power output until 6500 rpm is pretty much identical and then from there on till the rev limiter there is 8 kw atw increase. Also 600 idle RPM now, with the car sounding like its about to stall every 10 seconds when stationary and all i can do now is get it used to it until i do an engine swap. $1200 down the drain and i dont recomend it to anyone. Any ideas on what engine i should drop in ? currently considering 2007+ Cl9, FN2, FD2R engines.

[DakDak]

WOW. I would of thought you would of atleast touched the 110kw barrier. K20z's arent as strong as I perceived.

[xenonkuraz]

I would not expect much more until the exhaust is upgraded and the car is tuned

[Mr Abzii]

Yeah there isnt much more to expect out of the k20z2 unless you use force induction. My tunner said that with the RBC, CAI, headers and cat back exhaust installed + tune i shouldnt expect more then 110 kw atw, and i cant turbo it or supercharge it as yet because im still on my provisional licence until the end of next year. And it is so hard to drive now, so i have decided the whole engine ASAP.

[d15z1SUX]

u need a tune for the new intake manifold...

[ryaan]

i know what engine... the s2000 k20 ! :D

[u mad?]

i know what engine... the s2000 k20 ! :D

You mean f20c?


Op did you upgrade the throttle body and port match the the rbc? And you have not tuned it? No wonder its running like shit. 8kw increase is not to bad for just rbc and injen, considering it hasn't even been tuned yet. Just leave it stock until you get your opens, then decide if you wan't to turbo the car or sell it and move onto something more performance oriented.

You'd be looking at big bucks for fd2r k20 plus bolt ons and tune.

[xenonkuraz]

Big big bucks for any engine upgrade into your very oh so tight engine bay. Expect $10k or so for the block + install + tune

[Mr Abzii]

i know what engine... the s2000 k20 !
lol that would be pretty epic but i dont think its possible because my fd2 is drive by wire and also for the reason you mentioned in your edit.

[Mr Abzii]

Op did you upgrade the throttle body and port match the the rbc? And you have not tuned it? No wonder its running like shit. 8kw increase is not to bad for just rbc and injen, considering it hasn't even been tuned yet. Just leave it stock until you get your opens, then decide if you wan't to turbo the car or sell it and move onto something more performance oriented.

You'd be looking at big bucks for fd2r k20 plus bolt ons and tune.

No i didnt upgrage the throttle body or port match the RBC although i was told that it was very small and that i should look into getting a throttle body from a Acura TSX 07/08 for improvements. Aparently its not that expensive to source, about 4.5 k for the k20z4 or the k20a and most affordable choice is the k24's for 2 k and to drop either engine in for $1000 from my tunner


Big big bucks for any engine upgrade into your very oh so tight engine bay. Expect $10k or so for the block + install + tune

Hope fully i can get it done within a decent price range.

Correct me if i am wrong, i will be getting qutoes for these engines that i believe are compatible with my car.

-K20A FD2R
-K20z3 FG2
-K20z4 FN2
-K24z3 2008+Euro
-K24a3 2003+Euro

[xenonkuraz]

Any updates?

[David321]

Installed the RBC intake manifold and Injen Intake today, Results were dissapointing. Best of stock dyno runs 91 kw atw, best of after installation runs 99.2 kw atw. Power output until 6500 rpm is pretty much identical and then from there on till the rev limiter there is 8 kw atw increase. Also 600 idle RPM now, with the car sounding like its about to stall every 10 seconds when stationary and all i can do now is get it used to it until i do an engine swap. $1200 down the drain and i dont recomend it to anyone. Any ideas on what engine i should drop in ? currently considering 2007+ Cl9, FN2, FD2R engines.

hey Mr abzii i am in the same shoes are you was just wondering if you tuned after installing the RBC manifold and injen intake, and also when i drove teh car did you feel abit of power?

[lolmclol]

No offence man, but bolt on upgrades really aren't going to give you that much power. You'll end up spending an astronomical amount for maybe 40hp. I had the same idea as you when I got my civic, and eventually reality hits you in the face ;-).

If you do choose to go with the upgrades though and want to tune your car, I'd recommend buying the Flashpro, and doing the e-tune route, and seek VitViper, I've only read good things about him.

http://www.hondata.com/

http://www.e-tunez.com/ <- VitViper

[curtis265]

No offence man, but bolt on upgrades really aren't going to give you that much power. You'll end up spending an astronomical amount for maybe 40hp. I had the same idea as you when I got my civic, and eventually reality hits you in the face ;-).

If you do choose to go with the upgrades though and want to tune your car, I'd recommend buying the Flashpro, and doing the e-tune route, and seek VitViper, I've only read good things about him.

http://www.hondata.com/

http://www.e-tunez.com/ <- VitViper

40hp if you're lucky...

[hencanwa]

mine was around 148hp with bolts on

[butterfingers]

idk about you, but my ass doesnt care for kw numbers. it only understands gains in terms of responsiveness, pull, and various other affects of g-force.

i also dont drive into ditches and puddles.

[curtis265]

idk about you, but my ass doesnt care for kw numbers. it only understands gains in terms of responsiveness, pull, and various other affects of g-force.

i also dont drive into ditches and puddles.

so you want talk

go buy a bigger engine

[butterfingers]

buy one for me

one with heaps of talk and powa

[threesix]

Buy a V8 m8

[Mr Abzii]

Any updates?

I am planning on going through with the k24 swap and am still in the process of saving up, it sucks being a full time student -_- Good news is i have nearly reached that amount and will be starting the engine swap project within the following month. The Plan ATM is as follows:

ECU
Haltech ECU install + Tune
$2250.00
Engine
K24a3 Block
$ 1750.00
50 Degree VTC
$ 220.00
70mm K series Throttle Body
$ 200.00
RBC Intake Manifold - Owned
Injen CAI - Owned
Exhaust
Buddy Club Race Spec Headers
$ 1000
3 inch Mid Pipe + Installation
$ 500.00
Kakimoto Exhaust Muffler - Owned
Labour
Remove & Install engine to vehicle
$ 1200.00
Fit supplied parts to K24 - VTC, manifold, Throttle, oil pump, sump pan - including port match throttle to RBC
$ 400.00
Total = 7520

The prices that i have in my plan are not all quotes, several are just estimates i have made myself. I know alot of you guys have more experience and knowlege regarding kswaps, so let me know
if there is anything i am missing out in my plan or anything worth keeping in mind.


hey Mr abzii i am in the same shoes are you was just wondering if you tuned after installing the RBC manifold and injen intake, and also when i drove teh car did you feel abit of power?

Nope, i didnt end up tuning the RBC and Injen Intake. My initial plan was to go I/H/E + tune but the disappointing results shown on the dyno results from the CAI and Intake Manifold installation really turned me away from it. My tuner was also suprised with the lack of reponse from the mods, he told me that i shouldnt expect anything more then 110 kw atw with I/H/E + tune. which is 20 kw more then a stock FD2 and could easily set you back about $4000, not worth the money. IMO Your better off throwing a K24 in the FD2 for another $3000 - $4000 and gaining 60 kw over stock. Also regarding my butt dyno results from the CAI & RBC, Felt less responsive and less smooth low down in the revs and slightly more fluid and agile higher up in the revs.

[David321]

wow really felt less responsive inthe lower rpms mhmmms thats not very goood so the torque was less then usual too? mhmm what about adding a Ethrottle would that help?
now that i hear this it kinda turns me away but im not sure =s i mean i dont want to have a less responsive car

[curtis265]

wow really felt less responsive inthe lower rpms mhmmms thats not very goood so the torque was less then usual too? mhmm what about adding a Ethrottle would that help?
now that i hear this it kinda turns me away but im not sure =s i mean i dont want to have a less responsive car

you get bad lowRPM response because it's such a long pipe.

[David321]

you get bad lowRPM response because it's such a long pipe.
mhmmm then would a short ram intake be better off ? ova the stock airbox for more airflow since the CAI will make it have less response at lower rpms which i dont want OR is there someway to have a CAI and yet maintain low rpm response =s

[lolmclol]

enjoy your heatsoak with SRI.

EDIT:
SRI, takes air from the engine bay, which is going to be hot, hot air isn't efficient for the engine. Heatsoak can also occur when you are just idling at the lights as there is no air flow, flowing through the engine bay. This can be somewhat avoided but the options either require a lot of work which once again heavily outweigh the gain.

CAI, takes air from outside the car, which is cooler than the engine bay, thus "cold", only issue being is hydrolocking, which is easily avoidable with a hydroshield, although once again this isn't 100% fail safe, especially if you are trying to drive your civic like a submarine. CAI is also susceptible to heatsoak, but it isn't as common as you would experience on an SRI.

Personally, I bought a CAI, but honestly, no offense, but the civic isn't a racecar man.

[butterfingers]

i personally find Injen CAI to have decent low end gains

[lolmclol]

i personally find Injen CAI to have decent low end gains

I'm waiting until after my car goes in for its service to install mine ... >_< ... its sitting on my couch staring at me every night lol.

[curtis265]

I'm waiting until after my car goes in for its service to install mine ... >_< ... its sitting on my couch staring at me every night lol.

just put it in already you know you want to

[David321]

I'm waiting until after my car goes in for its service to install mine ... >_< ... its sitting on my couch staring at me every night lol.
Let me know how it feels and goes with your injen CAI installed cheers XD

[David321]

oh btw do you own a fd2 sports lolmclol

[lolmclol]

curtis265: You really don't know how bad I want to install it, it literally eye balls me at night time, and considering I stay up all night, its begining to plot against me 0-:
The only reason why I haven't is I don't want to give them a reason not to honour my warranty :-P

David321: VTi/R18, just get the injen CAI, it will increase your performance somehow man, and it makes your engine sound more beastly.

[butterfingers]

its like a massive shiny **** looking at you begging you to put it in

[David321]

oh okk, when are you installing your Injen CAI lolmclol and let us know of how the performance and feels after installation XD

[butterfingers]

she comes harder and screams louder when she hits that sweet spot.

[curtis265]

Do you sleep with it? lol



its like a massive shiny **** looking at you begging you to put it in

are you still talking about intakes?

[David321]

LOLOLOLOL shes comes at 5.5 rpm trololol so dirtyminded hahahah

[David321]

Do you sleep with it? lol




are you still talking about intakes?
His talking about different methods of intaking =s

[lolmclol]

haha, I should be getting my car serviced either late next week or the week after .. but I haven't slept since Friday night, and where I watch TV it sits right next to it, so its constantly eye balling me >_>

butterfingers, why do you think I have it sitting on the chair ;-), I could accidently sit on that chair! 0-:

[David321]

HAAHAH the intake is gonna make you VTEC lolmclol at 1 rpm bawhhhh oh wait AHHHHHHH o.O

[curtis265]

only lasted 30seconds before vtec

[David321]

doing it unprotectedly *shakes head* get some protection and purchase a hydroshield!

[butterfingers]

doing it unprotectedly *shakes head* get some protection and purchase a hydroshield!

yes hydroshield children.

lesson 1 in unprotected open intakes. more pleasure, more risk

[lolmclol]

Hydrolock .. is just a fancy term for explaining when your engine gets pregnant and is unable to perform at normal performance.

[lolmclol]

Serious: When I received my hydroshield .. I was looking at it like hmm .. over-glorified shower cap?

[curtis265]

Hydrolock .. is just a fancy term for explaining when your engine gets pregnant and is unable to perform at normal performance.

it's when your engine gets pregant with water and you end up with a busted crank

[butterfingers]

no, its a fancy term for a new infection. only occurs during wet weather.

kids,dont do it on rainy days.

[lolmclol]

Have to admit .. I am somewhat glad I haven't installed it .. when I've been on the road the last two weeks, been through a dozen car parks with nice cold water intake sized puddles >_> .. and the torrential rain haha

[butterfingers]

its overrated.

it wont suck in water unless you submerge the actual filter.

[lolmclol]

I know lol, you actually have to forcefully try to kill your car to do it, and even then I'm pretty sure logic would kick in that your racecar civic won't make it through a metre high pool of water.

[curtis265]

I know lol, you actually have to forcefully try to kill your car to do it, and even then I'm pretty sure logic would kick in that your racecar civic won't make it through a metre high pool of water.

what if you can't tell that it's 1m deep

some poeple have their pods so low to the ground that they're exposed through the splash guards

ultimate stupidity

[brody]

At the end of the day, if your that worried about it. Stay with your OEM. Lost probably better than Sri.. and you know its safe.

But seriously.. nothing to worry about with cai. You shouldnt he driving through big arse puddles anyway.

[lolmclol]

what if you can't tell that it's 1m deep

some poeple have their pods so low to the ground that they're exposed through the splash guards

ultimate stupidity

http://db.tt/zkh8NjJX

EDIT: haha, reminds me saw some "tiiiiiiiiiittteee" 180sx last night spend about a minute negotiating a speed bump in maccas drive thru, they went over on a 45º angle, still heard the crunch of their back bumper. All I could think was "needs moar slammed they said, look mad fresh tiiiitee yo, they said". Plus the massive puddles outside of the drive thru I was just waiting for some nice sound effects ;-)

[Mr Abzii]

wow really felt less responsive inthe lower rpms mhmmms thats not very goood so the torque was less then usual too? mhmm what about adding a Ethrottle would that help?
now that i hear this it kinda turns me away but im not sure =s i mean i dont want to have a less responsive car

No the torque was about the same, the power of the engine wasnt lacking but there was a change in the initial response when you press on the accelerater that had slowed down and it was also jerky. Which is likely due to the reason that curtis mentioned and also the fact that the RBC and throttle body wasnt port matched for smooth air flow. I am pretty confident that if i had port matched the RBC and tuned the engine i would have seen gains through out the whole RPM range. No the E throttle would not help.