Wanting to make more power...

[Nuci]

Hey all,

I'm in the process of sourcing an rbc and 70mm throttle body for my DC5R, and figured that since I'm planning on buying more parts in the future, I should fit them all at once to save on tuning costs. But the question is, what sort of parts should I be looking at next?

The car currently has I/H/E, Kpro and the rbc and 70mm t/b are on their way. I don't want to do internals yet (rather do that last) and I want to keep the car NA. So what sorts of things should I be looking at? Please give a reason why for each part.

Cheers, Nuci.

[Bludger]

Hi Nuci.

You've done all the breathing modifications that are outside the motor.
You don't want to open up the engine & you're not happy with your current power output.
HMmmmm.
You know, there might be more modifications you could do outside the motor, but srs'ly, do you really think it will make that much difference???
It's not going to make you

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luyzeeLuCV1qfdjos.gif

from the extra power is it......
Open it up is your next step.

regards
your helpful ohsc
watajk

[Nuci]

So no point in doing things like fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors? Those were the types of things that I wanted to do before internals such as cams, etc. That way I get the most out of them. That was my understanding at least.

[Bludger]

So no point in doing things like fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors? Those were the types of things that I wanted to do before internals such as cams, etc. That way I get the most out of them. That was my understanding at least.
those modifications will

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luyzeeLuCV1qfdjos.gif

notsrs tag used.

not srs.



but you want to do them just do eeettttt

do you need a

http://psamkang.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/holdinghands.jpg

to make your decisions?

[DakDak]

Heavy duty clutch - Better clamping and torque load. So better launches and grippier shifts = Fast time 1/4 mile
Lightened flywheel - Engine revs alots quicker but at the same time upon release of throttle decelerates alot faster = More rev happy car
Final drive - This is where the energy from the gearbox is last transfered before it hits the wheels. This modification works through gear ratios. The higher the number the lower the final drive. E.g a s2k has 4.1 where for one rotation the final drive spins 4.1 times if it had a 4.4 final drive it means that for every one rotation it now spins 4.4 times. BUt this has itd downs aswell. Cruising on the highway will suck your petrol.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?149835-S2000-Final-Drive-4.77-vs-4.44!&highlight=final+drive

[Bludger]

Heavy duty clutch - Better clamping and torque load. So better launches and grippier shifts = Fast time 1/4 mile
Lightened flywheel - Engine revs alots quicker but at the same time upon release of throttle decelerates alot faster = More rev happy car
Final drive - This is where the energy from the gearbox is last transfered before it hits the wheels. This modification works through gear ratios. The higher the number the lower the final drive. E.g a s2k has 4.1 where for one rotation the final drive spins 4.1 times if it had a 4.4 final drive it means that for every one rotation it now spins 4.4 times. BUt this has itd downs aswell. Cruising on the highway will suck your petrol.
you need to re read.

you can clearly see by the pixels that he is chasing numbers. I've seen a fair few of those people in my time.

[chauster]

you need to re read.

you can clearly see by the pixels that he is chasing numbers. I've seen a fair few of those people in my time.

That's definately a integrA.

Clutch flywheel do not add any killer wasps.

If you want more killer wasps then you need to open your engine. All the other one stuff may help like 1 killer wasps but that money you may just get moar aggressive cams.

Skunk2 probably bang for buck or maybe Brian corwer.

Also a reputable tuner and a good tune would get you more killer wasps.

From your locally friendly ohsc

Indie

[Nuci]

Ive already got ORC clutch and 3.9kg flywheel, Decided against changing the final drive coz dont want the car to be doing a million rpm on the highway lol. Thanks anyway though. And Bludger I've got NFI what you're on about as usual.

[chauster]

those modifications will

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luyzeeLuCV1qfdjos.gif

notsrs tag used.

not srs.



but you want to do them just do eeettttt

do you need a

http://psamkang.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/holdinghands.jpg

to make your decisions?

His saying that those mods will help get the "wow" and that his not srs

Then his asking that you already know what to do and just need someone to "hold your hand" whilst you do et

[Nuci]

Well why not just say that? Instead of speaking riddles that only clowns like him can understand? I asked a simple question, which requires a simple answer. I don't think it needs pictures. FFS get a job mate.

[chauster]

Well why not just say that? Instead of speaking riddles that only clowns like him can understand? I asked a simple question, which requires a simple answer. I don't think it needs pictures. FFS get a job mate.

Lmzo. Pics say a thousand words mate. Please get with it.

I answered your question. No need to flame bau. His a green whale Ganga. Respect
-ohsc

[DakDak]

you need to re read.

you can clearly see by the pixels that he is chasing numbers. I've seen a fair few of those people in my time.

Wouldnt an efficient drive line make him faster?

TODA AU - Correct... You guess about most people is also correct...
The order things are listed in is in order of deminishing return on investment.
If you have to do things in stages or an order, this is what you aught to stick to...
Fwiw: I always reccomend flywheel, clutch & final drive sets over intake & exhaust because if you put the two cars next to each other.
The stock looking & sounding one, with only the flywheel, clutch & final drive;will chop the noisy bucket (Intake, header, exhaust only) every time...
It will do so, quickly, quietly and by a considerable margin.
For guys who only what a mild improvement to their car this is a sensible path...
There is no compromise to the reliability of the vehicle nor it's plain jane charater.
Adding the intake - header - exhaust after that is smarter.
You already have an efficient driveline, the small gains you get from bolt-ons will now take greater effect

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?12532-Bang-for-your-bucks-%E2%80%93-DC5R-mods

[Bludger]

Wouldnt an efficient drive line make him faster?

TODA AU - Correct... You guess about most people is also correct...
The order things are listed in is in order of deminishing return on investment.
If you have to do things in stages or an order, this is what you aught to stick to...
Fwiw: I always reccomend flywheel, clutch & final drive sets over intake & exhaust because if you put the two cars next to each other.
The stock looking & sounding one, with only the flywheel, clutch & final drive;will chop the noisy bucket (Intake, header, exhaust only) every time...
It will do so, quickly, quietly and by a considerable margin.
For guys who only what a mild improvement to their car this is a sensible path...
There is no compromise to the reliability of the vehicle nor it's plain jane charater.
Adding the intake - header - exhaust after that is smarter.
You already have an efficient driveline, the small gains you get from bolt-ons will now take greater effect

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?12532-Bang-for-your-bucks-%E2%80%93-DC5R-mods
I meant he was chasing power numbers, not times.

regards
sean

[chauster]

Heavy duty clutch - Better clamping and torque load. So better launches and grippier shifts = Fast time 1/4 mile
Lightened flywheel - Engine revs alots quicker but at the same time upon release of throttle decelerates alot faster = More rev happy car
Final drive - This is where the energy from the gearbox is last transfered before it hits the wheels. This modification works through gear ratios. The higher the number the lower the final drive. E.g a s2k has 4.1 where for one rotation the final drive spins 4.1 times if it had a 4.4 final drive it means that for every one rotation it now spins 4.4 times. BUt this has itd downs aswell. Cruising on the highway will suck your petrol.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?149835-S2000-Final-Drive-4.77-vs-4.44!&highlight=final+drive

He wants to put stuff in so he can tune more things and be more worth while. Gearbox fd and clutch has nothing to do with it.

-ohsc

[DakDak]

I meant he was chasing power numbers, not times.

regards
sean

I get what you mean now. I was thinking quartermile instead on dyno machine.

[stndrd]

If your chasing killerwasps just stick a turb on it with a good fuel system and vct hubs and bang, mad power! There are a whole heap of cars in america making up to 600whp on stock k20's with a turbo. Check out www.k20a.org for more info

[bennjamin]

Hey all,

I'm in the process of sourcing an rbc and 70mm throttle body for my DC5R, and figured that since I'm planning on buying more parts in the future, I should fit them all at once to save on tuning costs. But the question is, what sort of parts should I be looking at next?

The car currently has I/H/E, Kpro and the rbc and 70mm t/b are on their way. I don't want to do internals yet (rather do that last) and I want to keep the car NA. So what sorts of things should I be looking at? Please give a reason why for each part.

Cheers, Nuci.

Chuck some nice lumpy cans in there to take
Advantage of the flow , and tune it properly. I've heard of good results from aggressive cams
On a k20 motor.

There you go - stock bottom end and you now have anot more power. That's what you wanted right ?!

[1900-hustler]

OP here are your choices:

Stay NA & Keep motor un-touched:
Get better I/H/E - not sure what you have atm but you can invest $ 000s to getting a full toda or js racing setup
You will yeild next to nothing most likley

Stay NA & Open up motor
Install Cams and whatever else you can do - then tune the car after
of course you can do the fuel rail and all that but it wont add any numbers to your power (since thats what your asking)

Forced Induction
Pretty straight forward - but since you wanna stay NA this aint for you
Too bad though cos this would be your best option if you are chasing power

[Nuci]

I've got a decent I/H/E setup already so don't really want to change much there. I still have a lot to learn on the cams side of things, want to make sure I know exactly what is involved before I go buying anything. Bang for buck cams are your buddyclub and skunk2, but I've heard bad things about both. Other end of the spectrum is toda or even further is Jun. But youre getting really exxy there. Like 3-4 grand tuned?

[chauster]

And then you have like 170+ killer wasps. With port polish and forge pistons your engine is finished. What's left is susssy. And you have yourself a honda

[Nuci]

I think I've got a decent suspension setup already. Got coilovers, thicker swaybars front and rear, camber kit front and rear, and decent tyres.

So what other options can people recommend aside from toda cams? Just so I can compare them.

[stndrd]

If your dead set on n/a, you can't go past a k-frank build. Get a k24 bottom end with some higher compression pistons & forged conrods, put a set of toda valve springs in your k20 head with match porting and you will see good gains thru the whole rev range. Like the V8 boys say, you can't beat cubic inches

[Nuci]

K24 bottom ends are becoming increasingly hard to find now though aren't they? And can I keep my kpro and gearbox etc?

[marquee]

Just biy a longblock off jdm yard and sell the head?

[Nuci]

What do they go for roughly?

[stndrd]

you can get a k24 long block from Hondworld in Clayton, Melbourne for about $1500

[chauster]

If not toda. Go skunk2.

[mocchi]

you can get a k24 long block from Hondworld in Clayton, Melbourne for about $1500

i wouldnt do it. better off paying extra 400 and buy from imlachs.
ALOT cleaner and imlachs will guarantee that nothing is wrong with longblock (6mnths).

no hassle and straight guys at imlachs.

will not vouch for the other.

[Nuci]

And which motor is it exactly? And what model CRVs do they come from? Am I better off using the stock k20a head to begin with or should I do a straight swap?

[chauster]

Will vouch for imlachs too. I thought k24 was from euros. I may be mistaken

[mocchi]

Will vouch for imlachs too. I thought k24 was from euros. I may be mistaken

euros have v6 and k24a3. crv use k24a(?) and it doesnt have proper ivtec head.
only k24a3 from cl9 has proper vtec head.

[Nuci]

And do you know what model year euros come with the k24a3? Cheers for the help appreciate it

[chauster]

09+

Ok

[EKVTIR-T]

Instead of people speculating please refer here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

[stndrd]

It's a K24a3 in australian delivered accord euro's (a2 is american euro, a4 american accord w/intake cam ivtec only). for all your f-frank info refer to www.k20a.org best forum for K series related info on what to do to make x amount of power

[mocchi]

It's a K24a4 in australian delivered accord euro's. for all your f-frank info refer to www.k20a.org best forum for K series related info on what to do to make x amount of power

wrong info brother. CL9 is k24a3.
you read too much USDM stuff.

[Nuci]

Ok getting a lil confused...

[chargeR]

wrong info brother. CL9 is k24a3.
you read too much USDM stuff.

Yep, correct.


It's a K24a4 in australian delivered accord euro's. for all your f-frank info refer to www.k20a.org best forum for K series related info on what to do to make x amount of power

Incorrect.


09+

Ok

Incorrect. The CU2 Accord Euro is not fitted with a K24A3 as far as I know, it is K24Zsomething. In any case if you want a K24A3 locally you must get it from a CL9 Accord Euro.

[chauster]

Isn't the cu engine better than cl?
I'm not k series expert. Please inform me

[Bludger]

I think I've got a decent suspension setup already. Got coilovers, thicker swaybars front and rear, camber kit front and rear, and decent tyres.

So what other options can people recommend aside from toda cams? Just so I can compare them.
just start a build thread already......

[DakDak]

If your dead set on n/a, you can't go past a k-frank build. Get a k24 bottom end with some higher compression pistons & forged conrods, put a set of toda valve springs in your k20 head with match porting and you will see good gains thru the whole rev range. Like the V8 boys say, you can't beat cubic inches

Depends how much you want to spend aswell

The cost of doing k20/k24 isnt worth it compared to gains imo. Yes has extra power from 6000rpm (3-5kw) but the all the money spent on a k series tensioner etc could better spent.
The K20 and 24 head are similar they just have different ports and flanges really. The K20a2 has a really good intake cam, specifcally the secondary intake lobe. The exhaust and intake primary lobes and the secondary exhaust lobe are better on a k24a3. The major weak point in a k24 is the stock VTC

[Benson]

Let me share some useful information. To get more power, you'll need more displacement. A 2.4l bottom is a bang for buck. Here is a good comaprison between a K20/K24 - K20
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/k24Fvsk20z.jpg

Changing cams in a K20 is pointless. The cost vs gains is useless

Here is the potential of OEM Honda parts in an K24 motor
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/bypfrank.jpg

[DakDak]

^OMGWTF are those all OEM parts Benson? Please share.

[Bludger]

^OMGWTF are those all OEM parts Benson? Please share.
answer will be

"combination of OEM parts"

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?91415-Cammed-Motors-Specs-DYNO-Graph-Mandatory&p=3160869&viewfull=1#post3160869

[BoostnDC2]

^ incredible power figures

[stndrd]

What dyno do you use at BYP Benson? Is it a roller or hub dyno?

[DakDak]

answer will be

"combination of OEM parts"

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?91415-Cammed-Motors-Specs-DYNO-Graph-Mandatory&p=3160869&viewfull=1#post3160869

Even I/H/E? Wow

[_bORdO_]

Changing cams in a K20 is pointless. The cost vs gains is useless



really man? your joking right?
are you saying the right setup + cams wont net you 170kw+ in a k20a

[stndrd]

Let me share some useful information. To get more power, you'll need more displacement. A 2.4l bottom is a bang for buck. Here is a good comaprison between a K20/K24 - K20
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/k24Fvsk20z.jpg

Changing cams in a K20 is pointless. The cost vs gains is useless

Here is the potential of OEM Honda parts in an K24 motor
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/bypfrank.jpg


answer will be

"combination of OEM parts"

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?91415-Cammed-Motors-Specs-DYNO-Graph-Mandatory&p=3160869&viewfull=1#post3160869


Even I/H/E? Wow


If you read on the k-frank dyno pic it is using RBC intake manifold, 70mm throttle body, HKS exhaust & K-pro. What Benson & Bludger are saying about a combination of OEM parts is engine internals ie: cams, pistons, rods etc

[Benson]

^ incredible power figures



What dyno do you use at BYP Benson? Is it a roller or hub dyno?

Dyno dynamics - roller dyno


Even I/H/E? Wow

177kw has slightly different bolt ons and type of fuel


really man? your joking right?
are you saying the right setup + cams wont net you 170kw+ in a k20a

You MIGHT make 170kw on the K20, but wont make the same mid range, response and torque as the K24 motor

[r3ckless]

im interested in seeing power gain on that k20z1 with injen/toda header/spoon n1 catback and kpro vs those same parts but with k24 benny :)