moving from 10w-40 to 5w-30. isit okay?

[blackdc2r]

hi there just wondering if its okay to move on from 10w-40 to 5w-30. currently my dc2r is not burning much oil when i previously used 5w-30 but im currently on 10w-40 and i thought it might be a little too thick. car is sitting on 140,000km atm.

[khanguskhan]

Me daily dc2r 120k km 15w50 ^^ totally fine

[Bludger]

why are you using 15w-50 on your dc2?^^

[dc2r-0636]

yes its ok, but why did u go to 10w40 in the first place lol
dont just drop the oil, change the oil filter as well since your changing oil viscosity.

and 15w50 is too think for a b18c7... and ur car is sitting on 120 only, which is low still. use a 10w40, eg royal purple

[khanguskhan]

Because I'm chicken and like to play it safe!

[Bludger]

Because I'm chicken and like to play it safe!
safe from what?

you're doing more damage than good.....

If you're under the assumption that thicker is safer/better, why don't you go for a Penrite hpr 40

it's 25w-70

nice and thick, so it's safe.

regards
brainless

[anzai]

Because I'm chicken and like to play it safe!

ummm..... lolol

[khanguskhan]

Thanks, cause that would be too thick then my engine can't move. Thanks for the guidance though.

[Bludger]

Thanks, cause that would be too thick then my engine can't move. Thanks for the guidance though.
well, I hope you realise that 15w-50 is too thick for your motor as well.

[khanguskhan]

I realise now thanks :D

[EgFanatic]

LMAO epic.. convo going on here

[hmetro24]

You should know that oil is sensitive for hot weather. In Australia better to use thicker than recommended oil.


Have a read in here (http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/products/1266801)

[Mikecivic78]

living in Brisbane I use Nulon 10w40, so called fully synth. A lil better than OEM 10w30. For DC2 use similar viscosity and change regularly and u'll be fine.

Do not use 15w50.

In regard to OP, if you switch from 10w40 to 5w30, you may get some oil seepage (sump gasket/other seals)that wasn't there before due to thinner oil

[Super-DA9]

i also use 15w-50 in my dc2. just so you know, it's no thicker then a 15w-40, which is a medium viscosity oil. the 50 means it has a better film strength.

it's normal for a lot of engines from the 90's to run 15w, as they have a bit of age on them. and it's only one step up from FEO which is 10w.

it's not as thick as some are stating. for those of you that may not understand how oil reads, the first number with the "w" is the thickness, and the second number only represents the film strength. you could use a 10w-70 and it wouldn't be any thicker then a 10w-30, only stronger.

also if someone can tell me exactly how a 15w oil can do actual internal damage or more wear then an oil that's too thin, with a provided example. please go ahead, as I can't understand why this would happen.

the only disadvantage I can think of for a slightly thicker oil is slightly less power (maybe -4kw max) and slightly worse fuel economy.

[anzai]

i also use 15w-50 in my dc2. just so you know, it's no thicker then a 15w-40, which is a medium viscosity oil. the 50 means it has a better film strength.

it's normal for a lot of engines from the 90's to run 15w, as they have a bit of age on them. and it's only one step up from FEO which is 10w.

it's not as thick as some are stating. for those of you that may not understand how oil reads, the first number with the "w" is the thickness, and the second number only represents the film strength. you could use a 10w-70 and it wouldn't be any thicker then a 10w-30, only stronger.

also if someone can tell me exactly how a 15w oil can do actual internal damage or more wear then an oil that's too thin, with a provided example. please go ahead, as I can't understand why this would happen.

the only disadvantage I can think of for a slightly thicker oil is slightly less power (maybe -4kw max) and slightly worse fuel economy.

*waits for bludger's entry*

[khanguskhan]

Nooo Super-DA9 you are wrong, I just found out from this topic 15w-50 makes the car go explogooooo. My DC2R cannot handle 15w-50.

[Super-DA9]

well I work in an auto retail store so it's part of my job to know about oil, but if I'm proven wrong it'll be some learning for me anyway.

[khanguskhan]

its ok i'll hold your hand, we'll go through this together ^^

[Super-DA9]

Nooo Super-DA9 you are wrong, I just found out from this topic 15w-50 makes the car go explogooooo. My DC2R cannot handle 15w-50.



haha, well I've been running 15w-50 with 0 problems ever since adrian at toda recommended it to me, because my car was losing a bit of oil past 7000RPM on 10w-40 a while back, it wasn't much but i still wanted to minimize my oil consumption.

[Mikecivic78]

lolz.

[SuperJDM.]

well I work in an auto retail store so it's part of my job to know about oil, but if I'm proven wrong it'll be some learning for me anyway.

well then theres nothing for us to say... you know er thang

[hmetro24]

What ever oil you use in your car, if you start the engine and drive straight away, that's will ruin the engine. That's what i see every body do.
I would use corn oil in my engine.

[Super-DA9]

well then theres nothing for us to say... you know er thang

come on dude thats a bit cold to pay me out about my job. the reason behind that comment is that i need to know about it so I can recommend the right oil to the people that ask, which is like 15 people a day, all with different cars.

i'd rather get some knowledge or share some knowledge out of this then be in a crap arguement, which seems to be what people are expecting to happen...

[SuperJDM.]

come on dude thats a bit cold to pay me out about my job. the reason behind that comment is that i need to know about it so I can recommend the right oil to the people that ask, which is like 15 people a day, all with different cars.

i'd rather get some knowledge or share some knowledge out of this then be in a crap arguement, which seems to be what people are expecting to happen...

im sure people here are glad to lead you into the right direction BUT to me it seems like you're not keen to listen to what people have to say because you work @ a auto bla bla

[Super-DA9]

i'm just saying thats where my knowledge on oil comes from mang. i did say beforehand that I'm open to anyone that can provide evidence of medium weight oil damaging b18c's.

there's been statments saying it's bad but no one has given a "why" yet. I can tell you why it's not bad but as you stated, I work at an auto shop so I'm not a guru I just know what I've learned there.

[hmetro24]

i'm just saying thats where my knowledge on oil comes from mang. i did say beforehand that I'm open to anyone that can provide evidence of medium weight oil damaging b18c's.

there's been statments saying it's bad but no one has given a "why" yet. I can tell you why it's not bad but as you stated, I work at an auto shop so I'm not a guru I just know what I've learned there.

It is not the oil, it is the way the car is driven and the way you maintain the car

[chauster]

i think you need to get your eyes checked byuddy.

i've seen alot of oil in my life and thats definitely 15w-50

[Super-DA9]

It is not the oil, it is the way the car is driven and the way you maintain the car

that is part true, but if you put an oil that is too thin for the engines internal age, regardless of it's good maintainance history it would still burn, no?

[TbM]

well I work in an auto retail store so it's part of my job to know about oil, but if I'm proven wrong it'll be some learning for me anyway.

Well i work as a security guard so its no part of my job to know about oils but i know you are incorrect and should not be giving out advice to people.......

The First number is the viscosity at low tempratures. so 5w is thinner than 10w.

the second number is the viscosity when hot. the higher the number the thicker the oil at running temprature.

Saying 10w -70 is no thicker than 10w - 30 is just plain fail.....

Regards,
I dont even........

[Super-DA9]

thats a harsh way to say it man, i still don't get why people get so angry on forums :/

in some ways you are saying the same thing that I did in different words, thickness or "weight" and "strength" are words I'm used to using so people understand it easier. yes the "w" is the thickness when cold, therefore the natural thickness of the oil itself, correct?

if the second number is the thickness when hot, doesn't that also reflect it's ability to not burn at high temperatures? the strength?

however this can be argued as I've read that oil thins out when it heats up. :/ confusing stuff.

[hmetro24]

The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature

[EKVTIR-T]

I cant find the B18c7 specs right now but these are the FACTORY advised grades for the EK9 with B16B so its pretty much the same
As you can see,for Australian climate 50 is fine...

20 W - 40 - Recommended for climates -10 C to 15 C
20 W - 50 - Recommended for climates between -10 C to 40 C +
5 W - 40 - Recommended for climates between: -30 C or less to 40 C +
10 W - 40 - Recommended for climates between: -20 C to 40 C +
10 W - 30 - Recommended for climates between: -20 C to 30-35 C
5 W - 30 - Recommended for climates between: - 30 C or less to 0 C

[dc2r-0636]

awwwww shit

[Super-DA9]

there should be an oil discussion thread haha :)

ok so i'm guessing my view on the second number was a bit off after all, as thats 2 opinions matched against mine.

exactly what forums are for, sharing opinions and learning from it. (preferably not being offensive about it however :/ )

what i would still like to know is why 15w-50 will do "damage" to your engine? is it because it doesn't flow fast enough? on this subject, EKVTIR-T has stated that in the manual it says 50 is ok for our climate?

if flowing speed is an issue, shouldn't you just let your car warm up in the morning as hmetro24 stated earlier?

[anzai]

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8744/idling.jpg

Regards,
Tom Cruise

[Super-DA9]

what? so we shouldn't warm our cars up? :S

[TbM]

thats a harsh way to say it man, i still don't get why people get so angry on forums :/

in some ways you are saying the same thing that I did in different words, thickness or "weight" and "strength" are words I'm used to using so people understand it easier. yes the "w" is the thickness when cold, therefore the natural thickness of the oil itself, correct?

if the second number is the thickness when hot, doesn't that also reflect it's ability to not burn at high temperatures? the strength?

however this can be argued as I've read that oil thins out when it heats up. :/ confusing stuff.

No the w is not the natural thickness its the oils viscosity at low tempratures. ie cold starting viscosity.

No the second number doesnt mean its more resistant to burning, it means it wont thin out as much when hot. The reason using a thicker oil makes you burn less oil is it reduces the ammount that can get by the rings, VSS etc due to its higher viscosity.

[hmetro24]

Oh man, starter motor gonna go kaput. If i gonna drive in melbourne traffic its gonna pain in the ass.

[khanguskhan]

I was about to say exactly that, so much for looking after your car. Starter motor kaput, precious toda flywheel ring gear kaput.

[Egcivicduty]

I havnt turned my car off in years

also, I'm nobody, but here's what I think I've heard and seen.
the first is the winter rating, that is the cold viscosity, I think its measured at 0ºF or something (~-18ºC)
The second is the weight at operational temperature, which is generalized as ~100ºC
So a 0w30 and a 10w30 are the same thing at operational temperature.
Basically, most days in australia, the lower rating is irrelevant.

The best way to think about it, I guess, is that a 20w50 oil is a 20 weight oil that would only thin as much as a 50 weight oil would at 100ºC

The main reason i could think why 15w50 is too thick is that the polymers added to oil have a tendency to break apart in high temperature or high rpm applications, meaning the oil would break apart over time. Basically 15w50 turns into 15w25 or something.
Meaning you need to change the oil more frequently. Explaining why oil manufacturers would tell you its ok lol.
I'd also say that, as a generlization, the higher the spread between the cold weight and operation weight, the more viscocity index improvers added to the oil. Wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content.
The polymers themselves dont do much in the way of actually lubricating the engine, so a lower spread would be better.
However, the heavier the base oil, the less Vi improvers required, so a 20w-50 would have less than a 10w40, even though they have the same spread.

I'm pretty sure that amsoil makes their 10w30 without any VI improvers.

and well, as stated. This is just my bleak understanding of the subject, and sorry if its hard to read, i wasnt really paying attention as i wrote it.

[Super-DA9]

I think some of those things are slightly different in synthetics, not too sure about how big a difference though. I think it's that synthetics are less likely to break down or something..

well I guess my question is, if you cannot use 15w-50, then are you just supposed to overhaul your engine when it starts to use too much of whichever 10w oil you are using? doesn't really make sense to me :/

[Bludger]

Super-DA9 knows best about his motor.

his choice to run 15w-50. I have no idea how many km's or what condition his motor is in, so he is best to judge what oil he uses.

We run 10w-60 in one of our b18's and 0w-40 in the dc2r.

[Bludger]

^^

that post was contradictory to my previous posts.

but my earlier replies were referring to a b18c where the owner made a blind statement that he runs 15w-50 "because it's safe"

[Egcivicduty]

indeed, I think I might go for 10-40 next time
and in regards to da9
its not the change from 10w to 15w that means its a heavier oil
the w stands for something like winter temperature, its measured at 0ºC, its only a grade for starting your engine
the second number is the relative grade of thickness at operating temperature.
so the thickness you are running at the moment is SAE 50, or something like that. You changed from 40-50 lol, i dunno how best to say any of this lol

[khanguskhan]

Thanks Bludger, it's only because I know that as a rough reason for my usage of 15w50, as I'm not as mechanically sound as the rest of you, and I have full trust in my mechanic, hence sorry if the way I spoke is misleading, but is it wrong for that to be agreed as safe even if my car is not burning oil at lower viscosities. 15-50 does not push the viscosity too far counting for Aus's weather?

[Super-DA9]

Super-DA9 knows best about his motor.

his choice to run 15w-50. I have no idea how many km's or what condition his motor is in, so he is best to judge what oil he uses.

We run 10w-60 in one of our b18's and 0w-40 in the dc2r.

Thanks buddy. my engine has 150,000km and has compression test results of 197-200 on all cylinders, however I'm fairly certain the valve guides have a bit of wear on them, which is the reason I use this over 10w-40.


indeed, I think I might go for 10-40 next time
and in regards to da9
its not the change from 10w to 15w that means its a heavier oil
the w stands for something like winter temperature, its measured at 0ºC, its only a grade for starting your engine
the second number is the relative grade of thickness at operating temperature.
so the thickness you are running at the moment is SAE 50, or something like that. You changed from 40-50 lol, i dunno how best to say any of this lol

yeah it seems this is right, my understanding from what I'd learned previously is that the "w" stood for "weight" meaning thickness, but it's good that I understand this properly now. thanks.

not that this would differ my choice of oil, as I've stated the reasons previously. so far I haven't had issues with 15w-50. maybe it would be really bad if we lived in a cold climate? :/

[Egcivicduty]

well, sure if it was Really cold, but the difference between 0w at -35ºC and 15w at -20ºC is only something like 30%
after 20 i think it gets thicker more rapidly
I remember something like that at least

[IV73CI]

what an epic debate going on right here!

well just to stirr up the convo,

im using Penrite 15/50 with a pint of extra virgin olive oil! :P

havent had any issues, was previously using Catrol Edge Sports 10/40 which was an awesome oil but costs me an arm & leg every 5k oil change intervals. (daily car).

My word of advise is, the correct oil to be used will be up to the below conditions;

- Klms of the engine
- Daily or weekend car
- Do you Vtaakk alot?
- Your location climate
- What type of fuel do u use?
- How often are your oil change intervals?
- What is your budget?

thats my 50cents yo!

[Fredoops]

Www.bobistheoilguy.com
/thread

If Honda dealers in Florida, US (which is Townsville weather) safely uses 5w-20 in Hondas and Acuras, why would I want to use something that's 2.5 times as thick. Honda engines aren't detroit V8's, we don't have as much tolerances in there.

Thicker =/= better
Bitog forums has plenty of oil test results that shows that.

[Egcivicduty]

yes but the reason they run 20 weight is so they can report higher fuel consumption rates to the government, at a cost of engine life.
the engines were most likely designed to run sae30.
especially if you have a high revving engine, whilst it mightnt do serious damage, i wouldnt risk dipping under the ideal oil pressure of 10psi per 1000rpms

[Fredoops]

My k-series euro users manual doesnt even allow anything over 40. I'm sticking with 30 or 40 full synthetic.

[aaronng]

My k-series euro users manual doesnt even allow anything over 40. I'm sticking with 30 or 40 full synthetic.

Yeah, the last engine that specified a 50 weight oil in the manual was the f22a in the CD5 Accord if I remember correctly.

[TbM]

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/integra.jpg
Reccomended oil for normal driving conditions for b18c5, should be roughly the same as the b18c7 iirc.


yes but the reason they run 20 weight is so they can report higher fuel consumption rates to the government, at a cost of engine life.
the engines were most likely designed to run sae30.
especially if you have a high revving engine, whilst it mightnt do serious damage, i wouldnt risk dipping under the ideal oil pressure of 10psi per 1000rpms

Using a lower weight oil will give you lower fuel comsumption readings not higher. Not every engines oil pressure should be 10 psi per 1000rpm. For example the k20a3 requires 44psi at 3000 rpm according to my service manual and the b18c5 requires 50 psi at 3000 rpm.

Heres detailed explanation of oils, long read but has heaps of info on the subject.
http://www.supramania.com/aehaas/index-2.html

[Egcivicduty]

I'm not sure of the exact details, what I meant is that a thinner oil gives a better fuel economy during the actual test the use for CAFE standards.
If a manufacturer fails to meet the standard they can face big fines. During one of the test the lower weight and shear friendly oils perform better, at least it's what I've heard. Let me know if you know differently.

the 10 psi thing.
I'ts not like its a set it stone rule.
http://www.positivespin.us/MotorOil.htm go here to read part 8. Lol taken from the exact same article as the supratech one.
I'll do my best to summarize
although the article is much better,

It's completely to do with your oil relief valve, and its probably safe to say its a theory.
I dont know exactly when it opens on a b16a, I did a search and found 70-75 :/ i dont think its correct, if anyone knows please tell me.
Well I expect it to be at least 80 when it opens, but lets see anyway. Lets say you have 15 psi per 1k rpm.
1k -> 15 psi
2k -> 30 psi
5k -> 75 psi
6k -> 90 psi
8k -> 120 psi
Oil relief valve opens before 6k and reduces flow drastically, the result being your engine revs from 6-8k with reduced lubrication

if you have 10 psi per 1k rpms
1k -> 10
4k -> 40
6k -> 60
7k -> 70
8k -> 80
the result being constant oil pressure and flow figures right up the scale
and I guess hondas with vtec deviate at the lower part of the scale, the reason being that extra oil pressure is required to engage vtec, right? after vtec engages pressure drops slightly

[IV73CI]

aww i knew it! the last page couple of posts were deleted! :P

ok lets keep it to the topic now ..

Royal purple is crap and makes the car sluggish.

Penrite, Mobil, Castrol Edge sports ftw!

[TbM]

I'm not sure of the exact details, what I meant is that a thinner oil gives a better fuel economy during the actual test the use for CAFE standards.
If a manufacturer fails to meet the standard they can face big fines. During one of the test the lower weight and shear friendly oils perform better, at least it's what I've heard. Let me know if you know differently.

the 10 psi thing.
I'ts not like its a set it stone rule.
http://www.positivespin.us/MotorOil.htm go here to read part 8. Lol taken from the exact same article as the supratech one.
I'll do my best to summarize
although the article is much better,

It's completely to do with your oil relief valve, and its probably safe to say its a theory.
I dont know exactly when it opens on a b16a, I did a search and found 70-75 :/ i dont think its correct, if anyone knows please tell me.
Well I expect it to be at least 80 when it opens, but lets see anyway. Lets say you have 15 psi per 1k rpm.
1k -> 15 psi
2k -> 30 psi
5k -> 75 psi
6k -> 90 psi
8k -> 120 psi
Oil relief valve opens before 6k and reduces flow drastically, the result being your engine revs from 6-8k with reduced lubrication

if you have 10 psi per 1k rpms
1k -> 10
4k -> 40
6k -> 60
7k -> 70
8k -> 80
the result being constant oil pressure and flow figures right up the scale
and I guess hondas with vtec deviate at the lower part of the scale, the reason being that extra oil pressure is required to engage vtec, right? after vtec engages pressure drops slightly

Yeh your correct in what your saying about thinner oils reducing fuel consumption but you typed it wrong the first time.
"the reason they run 20 weight is so they can report higher fuel consumption rates to the government, at a cost of engine life.the engines were most likely designed to run sae30."
It should be lower not higher fuel consumption. i dont know why they would want to report higher fuel consumption.

Lol i knew you were using the A E Hass article when you started talking about 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Its not an idea pressure for every engine its just a basic guide.

I was under the impression that changing oil weight and operating conditions(ie track cars with increased oil temps etc) would vary the pressure though the rpm range so i dont think its completely up to the relief valve but i could be mistaken, I thought the relief valve was mainly used to restrict the maximum oil pressure.

Dunno when the oil relief valve opens on the b16a but heres the service specs i could find on the b16a2.
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/b16-1.png

[Egcivicduty]

lol, obviously I dont read what I write :thumbsup:

thanks for the specs bro :)