BANG FOR YOUR BUCK: Koni adjustable or Eibach ANTI-ROLL-KIT - thoughts?

[Alvis]

Hi OH Team,

I've had my spoon springs fitted for some time now, but I think it's time to go that one step further in the new year and I'd like your thoughts.

Aim
Improve the dynamics of the car and sharpen up the handling.

Current situation
* Spoon Sport progressive springs matched to EK1 oem dampers.
* The oem dampers have 67k on them and are in excellent condition according to the last Pedders report.
* Other handling/chassis mod is a Mugen front tower bar

Possible scenarios - I can only do one of these atm!
ONE
Upgrade oem dampers to Koni Yellow adjustables:
Cost = $700 delivered/fitted.


TWO
Fit Eibach anti-roll kit with ASR subframe
RSB = 17mm (3mm thicker than an '00 model EM1/EK4)
FSB = 26mm (same spec as CTR/EM1/EK4)
http://passwordjdm.com/Eibach-Anti-Roll-Kit-96-00-Honda-Civic-FR-P7763C1539.aspx (note this is not the actual pic of the part, but you all know what a sway bar looks like)
Cost
= $700 for kit and ASR subframe
= $300 for harware
= $1,000 delivered


What are your thoughts on what is the best 'bang for my buck' and is going to give me the best handling improvements?

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Alvis :thumbsup:

[meatball]

i vote koni's and why dont you buy ek9 front and rear sway? its cheaper

[curtis265]

I think the sway bars. Do you have lots of existing body roll?

[Alvis]

i vote koni's and why dont you buy ek9 front and rear sway? its cheaper
Have you got a source? The actual Eibach kit and ASR subframe = $476 US. That's pretty good value.

The hardware kit (which is the annoying part) is about $300 on top with delivery, so just over $750 complete. Shipping is about $190.

I'm not too keen on an EK9 rsb, probably overkill... but keen to at least have same/similar specs to an EM1/EK4



I think the sway bars. Do you have lots of existing body roll?
It's not too bad, but not as sharp as I'd like it to be. Still feels like I have some excess roll but want to get it sharper through the bends, without going overkill.

[stndrd]

I can source Koni direct from Australian distributor. PM if you would like me to get prices

[Riced_Civic]

I say get Konis, they will be 10X better then OEM shocks.

[quangsuke]

if u want bang for buck. save yourself the time and just go straight to coilovers. handling will outdo any of your above listed options.

[Riced_Civic]

not necessarily

[Alvis]

if u want bang for buck. save yourself the time and just go straight to coilovers. handling will outdo any of your above listed options.


not necessarily

Yeh, I agree - I purposely decided not to go down the coilover path when I bought the spoon springs - apart from the fact it would lower the car too much for my driveway, there is no reason why a quality spring/damper setup for the street can't do just a good as job - probably even better due to the sh*t nature of our roads - how bad are they with all this rain lately! But each to their own I guess...



I say get Konis, they will be 10X better then OEM shocks.

Thanks for the advice... keep it coming fellas... I'm really undecided on this mainly because my dampers are still ok, but I do understand changing the dampers to match the stiffer springs would also have additional benefits in terms of my braking as well...?

[mugen_ctr]

imo, stay away from the 26mm front swaybar, unless u want under steer...

having the 22mm fsb coupled with the 17mm rear will be adequate, i dont see the need to add more under steer, unless u wanna play it safe lol...

Id use that money towards out fitting new shockers and investing in that 17mm rsb as well....

[Alvis]

imo, stay away from the 26mm front swaybar, unless u want under steer...

having the 22mm fsb coupled with the 17mm rear will be adequate, i dont see the need to add more under steer, unless u wanna play it safe lol...

Id use that money towards out fitting new shockers and investing in that 17mm rsb as well....

Thanks mate - so pretty much what we're saying is if I add a 17mm rsb to a car that currently has no rsb, mated with the stock 22mm fsb; I'm essentially encouraging more oversteer yeh?

I'd still like the car to have more of a 'neutral' feel to it - so I figured Honda knew what they were doing when they put a 26mm on the EM1/EK4 with the 14mm rsb...

Do we know if a stock EM1/EK4 is neutral in it's handling or does it have more of an understeer feel to it?

[mugen_ctr]

Thanks mate - so pretty much what we're saying is if I add a 17mm rsb to a car that currently has no rsb, mated with the stock 22mm fsb; I'm essentially encouraging more oversteer yeh?

I'd still like the car to have more of a 'neutral' feel to it - so I figured Honda knew what they were doing when they put a 26mm on the EM1/EK4 with the 14mm rsb...

Do we know if a stock EM1/EK4 is neutral in it's handling or does it have more of an understeer feel to it?

Manufactures tend to add understeer to there cars than over steer, safety reasons lol.....

imo, see how the car feels with the 17mm and go from there... the swaybar wont add over steer, but it will create a more neutral handling, as the rear is more planted on the road... I dont see the need to go for a larger front end as it will create more of a under steer coupled with the 17mm, if u had gone for the 26mm fsb with the 22mm rsb, there i can understand as it creates a more neutral handling, but thats just me, i prefer a neutral handling car... having that combo, mite create some under steer when pushing hard around bends.

As far as honda and the ek4/em1..... i wouldnt know.... someone else can cover that lol....

Em1 Civic Si road test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FmV9kk09Qs

The part about body roll LOL... its quite evident the body roll is there and bucket seats!?!?!??! hahahahaha.....

[Alvis]

Just like you said mugen_ctr:

"For more neutral handling, an EX front bar (which is smaller than the Si front) can be paired with the Si rear to bring more balance to the under and oversteering effects.

Likewise, a front Si bar with a rear Integra GSR or Type R (or even Civic Type R) will be more like "neutral" handling but that much tighter."

Source: http://www.ek9.org/forum/suspension/31-information-about-ek-sway-bars-useful-information.html

[Alvis]

How oldskool is that video - that is awesome! What about the cash register at the end HAHA... what a bargain in the US under 18 grand. Geez. Lucky buggers.

You hit it spot on mate. I want that neutral feel to the car not too much under not too much over... I guess my only dilemma if I go down the path of the rsb is if I then decide I need the fsb I have to either find one in Oz or pay for shipping again!

A mate on the forum down in Tassie is looking to see if he can send his EM1 rsb up to me - so even though it's 14mm it might be worth seeing if I can get that off him and give that a go... just have to buy the hardware then...

Do you think Honda is a bit rich on the quote below for parts:

D bracket - $8.00 x 2 = $16
Bushes - $11.40 x 2 = $22.80
Lock bolts - $7.85 x 2 = $15.70
End links - $138.00 x 2 = $276 :eek:
Mounting brackets - $27.10 x 2 = $54.10
4 bolts - $5.40 x 4 = $21.60
4 bolts - $2.75 x 4 = $11.00

HARDWARE TOTAL FOR RSB = $417.20

+ ASR subframe = $179 + shipping from US


Why are the end links SOOO expensive! Are there other options for end-links - ie would these fit the oem rsb?

Beaks
http://www.beaksproducts.com/EK_Civic_End_links.htm

ASR
http://passwordjdm.com/ASR-Rear-Swaybar-Endlinks-P2261C10.aspx

[mugen_ctr]

Civic rear end links: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-FRONT-REAR-Sway-Bar-Links-HONDA-CIVIC-96-00-97-98-99-/170542337080?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27b51d8c38

price: $65, much cheaper than paying $276, and yes ive used them :)

Yeah, good plan, try the Em1 swaybar and see how it goes, i found that the em1 swaybar was more than enough for a dd :)

[Alvis]

Thanks for the link, I'll keep it in mind. Did you ever ask the seller who makes them and where they're manufactured - wondering what the difference is...

OH, and this is an interesting development - this quote comes from a contact in the USA who works at Eibach. He's saying the ASR brace will not work with the Eibach rsb for the below reason and more interestingly that a brace is not needed anyway...???



"I want to mention that the ASR subframe brace is NOT needed with the Eibach rear bar and will NOT work properly with the factory D-Brackets you need as the mounting holes are spaced differently. The ASR brace has mounting holes to be used with the ITR D-Brackets which are obviously wider to accomodate the bigger bar.

Just get the Eibach front and rear kit plus all of the necessary OE parts you need to mount it. The ASR brace is not needed.

The bar isn't aggressive enough to cause tear out. We've had this bar in production for over a decade with no tear out issues."

[akira]

I've got koni yellows for sale very soon if your interested

[jajaja]

i vote koni yellows. a mate of mine has them and they give a very stiff and firm ride, even on oem swaybars. plus with the added feature of the adjustable dampers - almost makes them coilovers :P

[Alvis]

Thanks for all the votes fellas - I've decided Koni yellows is the best way to go at this stage. Sways can always come at a later date!

Thanks again! :)

[dc292177917]

Thanks mate - so pretty much what we're saying is if I add a 17mm rsb to a car that currently has no rsb, mated with the stock 22mm fsb; I'm essentially encouraging more oversteer yeh?

I'd still like the car to have more of a 'neutral' feel to it - so I figured Honda knew what they were doing when they put a 26mm on the EM1/EK4 with the 14mm rsb...

Do we know if a stock EM1/EK4 is neutral in it's handling or does it have more of an understeer feel to it?

dont think it has 26mm FSB on the EK4/EM1
btw due to wheelbase difference imo u shudnt reference yr setup to EKs
and EK4 tends to understeer...
if u r looking for some netural turning 26/22 shud be the point to start playing with

[mugen_ctr]

dont think it has 26mm FSB on the EK4/EM1
btw due to wheelbase difference imo u shudnt reference yr setup to EKs
and EK4 tends to understeer...
if u r looking for some netural turning 26/22 shud be the point to start playing with

Em1/Ek4 and Ek9 all use the same 26mm FSB and front end suspension components down to the LCA and endlinks

and also ek/em/ej use the exact same wheel base, the only difference being that the shape coupe vs hatch back, so in saying that there is a difference between the two when talking weight distribution from front and rear, but not that much imo

[Alvis]

Em1/Ek4 and Ek9 all use the same 26mm FSB and front end suspension components down to the LCA and endlinks

and also ek/em/ej use the exact same wheel base, the only difference being that the shape coupe vs hatch back, so in saying that there is a difference between the two when talking weight distribution from front and rear, but not that much imo

Yeh spot on mugen_ctr

But yep dc292177917 there are a few different factors at play - engine power probably being the biggest - and EM1 is probably the closest match, as opposed to EK4

Length 164.5 in (4,178 mm) (1996-97 hatchback)
164.2 in (4,171 mm) (1998-2000 hatchback)
175.1 in (4,448 mm) (coupe & sedan)
Width 67.1 in (1,704 mm)
Height 54.1 in (1,374 mm) (coupe)
54.7 in (1,389 mm) (sedan)

[dc292177917]

oh sorry mate i thought u hv a EK sedan...
i mixed it up with another member from here pbly lol...
but yea play around with the damper settings of koni first