Federal 595RSR on DC2R

[K5WAP]

Hey guys,

Before I start ive tried searching everywhere and cant seem to find the answer im looking for so as my last resort i'm asking.

Now, I have a completely stock 2000 DC2r with 205 55 15 Federal 595rsrs with now about 90% tread. Previoulsy I was running 195 55 15 Re001s which I was more than happy with, heaps of grip and so snappy and stiff. I found the sweet spot for these at 40psi, they were perfect! Now heres my problem, these federals I just cant tell wether im running the wrong pressure or its just a softer sidewall or it needs a better wheel allignment. Dont get me wrong they out grip the re001s by far, but they just dont feel as stiff. Say for example if your doing 80kph and you quickly snap the steering wheel the car will move and youll feel it wabble back over to the other side, they grip hard as but they just dont feel as urgent or as stable as the re001s, perhaps they dont have enough heat in them? Would anyone be able to recommend the right psi? ive tried a fair few just want to see what you guys use. Btw the car pulls slightly to the left but it did this when i first got tyres put on anyway.

Any info would be greatly appreciated :)
Thanks.

[EG30]

40 psi definately way too high.

People I know of at the track run them no more than 32-34psi hot and they start at cold pressure of around 28psi on a 20-25C day.

On the street try 28-30 psi cold and see how you go.

You running 205 55 15 on stock 15x6 rims?

[lil_foy]

Just noting that Federal RSR are only make in a 205 50 15.

[Oz_Striker]

As said above 40psi is too high, to get more responsive, stable and predictable handling maybe you should look into upgrading some suspension components to bring out the potential in the tyres you have bought.

[Stevil]

EG30 interesting you thinking 32-34psi hot at the track is a good number. I've done 2 days at Wakefield on my 205/50/16 RSRs and 40psi Front, 38 psi rear worked for me. If ya go too low the tyre exhibits alot of flex, grips is still good thou but it gives a vague feeling with change of direction

[EG30]

EG30 interesting you thinking 32-34psi hot at the track is a good number. I've done 2 days at Wakefield on my 205/50/16 RSRs and 40psi Front, 38 psi rear worked for me. If ya go too low the tyre exhibits alot of flex, grips is still good thou but it gives a vague feeling with change of direction

On my Advan A050 205 50 15 tyres for competition events only, I run max 34psi hot as recomended by Advan/Yoko Aust. They advise that for a good reason as any higher the wear rate at the centre of the tread goes thru the roof. At 37-38 hot there is more air to support the tyre and yes the sidewalls flex less still and better turn in for sure but at the end of day it's a compromise and need to be sustainable for the number of laps one does during the stint.

The RSR I have no personal experience with, just so happens the hot psi in their optimum window was 32-34 psi for that particular person I know of at the track.

To know if you are running the right psi at the track you need to use a pyrometer to check the temps across the tread after a number of hot laps and take the readings right away when you pit with no cool down lap.

With more air supporting the tyre it will always feel more responsive to your inputs despite the tyre is more 'ballooned" with the contact patch mostly at the centre of the tread, consequently overheat the middle of the tyre. Once you dropped the psi it will always feel relatively lazy to begin with. Don’t forget a super sharp turn in sensation is not a guarantee to a good lap time and one should always turn in smoothly and gradually build up lateral forces in the car.

When I was running the Toyo R888 few years back in 2008, the tyre can't hack any more than 28psi hot due to its very soft carcass. Any more than 28psi even at 30psi hot the centre would wear far too quick and cost too much $ to run. I had to leave the pits often at 21 to 22 psi cold esp on a hot day and for the out lap the steering response was shocking and if I hammer them too much the outer edges wore prematurely due to pressure being too low at the time. It was the only work-around to keep them in their narrow operating window for laps 2 and 3 for the track sprints I did.

[K5WAP]

40 psi definately way too high.

People I know of at the track run them no more than 32-34psi hot and they start at cold pressure of around 28psi on a 20-25C day.

On the street try 28-30 psi cold and see how you go.

You running 205 55 15 on stock 15x6 rims?
Thanks for the info :) ill give it a try.
And yes I am, didn't have time to wait for the 195, this wouldnt effect it at all right?


Just noting that Federal RSR are only make in a 205 50 15.
**** yeah bro, nice.


As said above 40psi is too high, to get more responsive, stable and predictable handling maybe you should look into upgrading some suspension components to bring out the potential in the tyres you have bought.
What I just dont understand is that if it was great with the re001s then why not with the rsr, is it necessery to modify suspension to suit different tyres? If so, what would you suggest? Thanks!

[chargeR]

Thanks for the info :) ill give it a try.
And yes I am, didn't have time to wait for the 195, this wouldnt effect it at all right?


The tyre is taller, wider and not as well supported by the wheel when compared to the 195. I would say that change in size probably hasn't had a positive effect on the response of the tyre.

[EG30]

http://www.federaltyres.com/ultra-high-performance/595rs-r

federal's approved rim width range is 6.0 to 7.0 in wide so yours 15x6 rim falls within range, wont have as crisp of a turn in as say a 15x7 rim fitment but the difference isnt going to be night and day and you might as well enjoy your setup as it is and not worry too much about it.

with a street tyre biased towards comfort, acceptable noise and wear for an everyday tyre like the re001 has relatively soft sidewalls compared to aggressive trackable street tyres like the RSR need high pressure to support the tyre under hard cornering esp at the track. High pressure would make the re001 run too hot at the middle of the tread surface as just it would on the RSR, but it needs the extra air badly so it's the lesser of the 2 evils in this case.

In the RSR it doesnt rely on high pressure to maintain sidewall integrity under duress so you are much better off running non excessive psi and maximise its dynamic footprint and thus maximum grip available from it.

Pics of my re001 after my first track tuning day ( around 20 hot laps total ) in my eg in 2008:

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/9340/img4966n.jpg (http://img862.imageshack.us/i/img4966n.jpg/)
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8849/img4982e.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/img4982e.jpg/)

car had way insufficent front camber ie around 1 deg running on soft King spings+koni yellows and stock eg5 front sway bar. If I didnt run high psi the wear would be even more severe and further towards the sidewall. Once car had 3 deg of neg camber and stiffer setup the shoulder wear much more under control though still getting more chopped up than the rest of the tread area.

[Oz_Striker]

What I just dont understand is that if it was great with the re001s then why not with the rsr, is it necessery to modify suspension to suit different tyres? If so, what would you suggest? Thanks!

It's not compulsary lol but if you buy a softer compound (stickier) tyre, stock suspension wont allow you to use them to their full potential. Upgrading to a firmer spring/shock combo will help to keep the tyres in contact with the road more and will get the most out of the tyres giving the car a more balanced and firmer feel which is good for a street car. However a lot of people go for coilovers (especially if they are going to the track) which are usually even firmer, and are also usually adjustable in height and damper and sometimes camber. Because these are adjustable you can have them set up to suit the tyres you have. UHP street tyres will enjoy a firmer suspension setup more than a set of Bob Jane specials (a large scaled exaggeration but you get the idea). Your allignment has a big effect on this as well as supporting mods like strut tower bars, sway bars, cages, under braces, and bushes. There are loads of things you can do to improve your tyres contact with the tar and as i said make the most out of the money you have spent on your treads.

[hondapop]

I'm glad I found this thread as I am leaning toward buying 15" Federals for my Gen 2 CRX. The 595RS-R is stated as being a street legal UHP, but is obviously designed with the track mainly in mind and has extra steel plies in the sidewalls. The 595 series is the predecessor design which is also street legal UHP and is said to be the choice of drift racers. The other one that is offered in 15" is the 595EVO stated as "street competition" with superior wet weather handling, something both the 595 and 595RS-R only allude to (to my mind). It is still a directional tyre but for the sort of weather extremes we get in OZ, a safer bet for road use and especially on a light car such as the CRX or DC2 which lack the weight to force tyres into road contact at speed if it's got water over it. It comes in both 195/50 and /55. Only the RS-R comes in both 195/50 and 205/50.

URL for 595EVO's if interested. http://www.federaltyres.com.au/high-performance/595evo

I have also held the preference for 205/50's as offering better rim protection, but seeing the rims I have are 6.5JJ and particularly after reading the above comments about wall flex and desiring better steering response I think I'd be better off with the 195's. If I was going 7-8" then maybe I could be influenced to 205's.

[rhys.l]

The tyre is taller, wider and not as well supported by the wheel when compared to the 195. I would say that change in size probably hasn't had a positive effect on the response of the tyre.

I agree. I wanted 205 rsrs, so I went a x7" wheel. The tyre will have a squarer profile to the rim and I believe this is beneficial. Just because you fit the same tyre to your rim doesn't mean you will get the same performance.

[hondapop]

I agree. I wanted 205 rsrs, so I went a x7" wheel. The tyre will have a squarer profile to the rim and I believe this is beneficial. Just because you fit the same tyre to your rim doesn't mean you will get the same performance.

Have you had time to evaluate them and form an opinion ?

[rhys.l]

I've had them for a fair while now, and I like them. I've never had a real performance/semi slick tyre before so I don't have much to compare them to, but to me they grip up really well, especially with some heat. They are good in the wet, and aren't noisy for normal driving. I have taken a decent chunk out of the front tyres after ~3000kms so I'm not expecting them to last for much more than 10-15 000km, but we will see. Backs should have good life.

One strange thing has happened - last mountain run they were really quite skatey and noisy. Not sure what the go is there, whether they have hardened up over time or if it was just a hiccup.

Anyway, would definitely recommend for the price!

[Stevil]

Done 22,000 in the last 4mths on my RSR's and they are holding up well, Two track days at Wakefield took a bit off the outside edge, but I've since put a bit more camber on the front, put in some eibach and flipped the rubber on the rims. I reckon I can get 1 more track day out of them and around 30-33,000 kms. Best bang for buck ya tyres at only $150 a pop. Yeah and the grip in the wet is awesome, except deep pools !

[hondapop]

After the last 2 posts I might change my mind again (worse than an old woman. Well at least half of that's right) and go for the RS-R's. Not many tyres will handle deep water, my main concern was getting caught in a Qld downpour while travelling at 110k on the highway and not being able to pull off, 'cause there are some crazy dumba***s's out there who will blast on regardless.

[nigs]

Shouldn't be doing 110km.hr in downpour driving a civic anyway.

RSR are great for the price. They don't handle heat well though. Grip starts to go after 4 laps at Lakeside. Or about 6-8mins of a downhill chase. Uphill is fine.
They don't really need to be warmed up, thus making them the perfect street tyre. And with a treadwear of 140, still classes them as a street tyre if you choose to compete with them.
Sidewalls feel firmer than KU36 which is also called a "street semi slick" and shares the 140 treadwear rating.
The RSR's also wear better than KU36 I think.......
Both sets of KU36 I had were on a 1560kg car and a 1300kg car.

So if you're looking for a street tyre with plenty of grip for a low price and aren't concerned with tyre wear, RSR are good.

[hondapop]

I agree totally about slowing down in heavy rain and as you must be a local you would know what that can be like here. It's the morons behind who seem to be totally oblivious that scare me.

Good to get that input re Lakeside, 4 laps isn't much to start noticing a falloff in grip. From the brands I've been looking at I think they're the only one with extra steel reinforcing in the walls.

[Oz_Striker]

Shouldn't be doing 110km.hr in downpour driving a civic anyway.

RSR are great for the price. They don't handle heat well though. Grip starts to go after 4 laps at Lakeside. Or about 6-8mins of a downhill chase. Uphill is fine.
They don't really need to be warmed up, thus making them the perfect street tyre. And with a treadwear of 140, still classes them as a street tyre if you choose to compete with them.
Sidewalls feel firmer than KU36 which is also called a "street semi slick" and shares the 140 treadwear rating.
The RSR's also wear better than KU36 I think.......
Both sets of KU36 I had were on a 1560kg car and a 1300kg car.

So if you're looking for a street tyre with plenty of grip for a low price and aren't concerned with tyre wear, RSR are good.

What tyre pressures do you use?

[stndrd]

I would personally be leaning towards Toyo R1R. They are grouped in the same category as the KU36 & 595RSR but are most likely more expensive than the Kumho or the Federal. From personal experience, the R1R's hold up well in Melbourne's wet weather & around Winton (EG, coilovers, standard swaybars f&r) held up for about 5 laps before the pressures started getting a bit to high and had to bring it in (chasing an optimal hot pressure of 30-32psi on 20-25 degree day). I was able to do two good track days at Winton on my R1R's after doing approx 10,000km of street driving and there was still, on average, approx 30% left all round before I sold them.

I haven't personally driven on the 595RSR at the track, but have been for a few passenger laps in a couple of civic's (one EP3 & one FD2) fitted with them and from the passenger seat, it feels like the fronts heat up to quickly & understeer starts to occur only after 2 or 3 laps (and this was using the 32-34psi hot window). The KU36 I have driven on (one DC5 & one EVO6) but only on the street and find that even tho the treadwear rating is quite low, they are, to put it nicely, fairly average when cold (compared to the R1R's) and require some form of heat in them before they start to grip & are quite noisy.

Hope this helps out

[nigs]

R1R should be heaps more. For that price if purchased locally, you'd start looking at getting more serious tyres from tirerack.com

34psi hot. I really have NFI about what pressures are best for wear. With mediocre tyres, it all felt much of muchness to me.

[lil_foy]

From what i've heard R1R overheat pretty quickly as well.