FD2 Sport?? & K20 engines??

[troys2000]

Hi,
Am looking into a civic to replace my S2000.
Can someone explain the FD2? I thought its the Jap Type R
Found some people saying there 06 civic have the K20 engine? Is this correct?
Would love a civic with the extra power of the K20 engine.

Thanks
Troy

[Fredoops]

Fd2r does has the K20A. But it's rare as fk and expansive as fk, cost something like $50g plus last time one was advertised.


Civic sport has a pretty mild k20, something like 114kw.

[troys2000]

Thanks.
So how come that civic on the link has the different engine? its black motor not like the usual civic sport that has a silver top that looks like the old integra engine

[Fredoops]

^^^^ edited to include civic sport and k20z2 Don't worry too muh about the black top vs silver top.

Thats the manifold cover, and it differs between the cars, for example, myk24 cl9 has silver cover, but a k24 CU2 has black cover


Honda ain't Toyota, top colours don't count as much lol

[troys2000]

Why is it so detuned? Or are allot of the internals different too? Can you chip it to get more power?
Just having 178kw to 114kw will feel slow compared to what I am used too lol.
I thought it would have the integra motor.

[curtis265]

here's a build if you're interested.. turns out it has no exhaust vtec :S

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71150

[troys2000]

WTF why put vtec on the inlet only and not exhaust does not make sence.
Dont know what else to get under $20,000 other than a civic sport

[Stevil]

Piss the FD2 conversion off, better off starting with an FD1 which is a hell of a lot lighter, just drop a FD2 subframe in and your away.

http://www.modproject.com.au/?p=15/

and where the Type R FD started..

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0702_ht_spoon_honda_civic_type_r_sedan/viewall.html

[ekay1]

Cheapest option, get a 2nd hand fd1 for the lowest price with a straight chassis and k24 it lol

[Stevil]

Now ya Talking ekay1 !! cheaper K24 motor would certainly lessen the conversion cost.

[ekay1]

Now ya Talking ekay1 !! cheaper K24 motor would certainly lessen the conversion cost.

Exactly ey! Just buy like a fd with tons of k's straight chassis for like 13k? k24 + parts + labour, all up like 25k for a fd with a k24? thats like the price of a new fd1, but with a nice torquey engine.

[Fredoops]

That's like the price of an Evo 7/8.... Just sayin

[Stevil]

I know which would id rather track ! 1100 kgs with 200+ kw would be quick

[aaronng]

Don't bother modding the FD series up unless you were planning to go hardcore. Even then, a cheaper car will still munch you. You remember back during the times of EM1, EK4 and EJ8? This civic is like the HRV. You can make it go fast by throwing money at it, but why would you?

[Stevil]

Id agree with you aaronng, if you mod the fd you either improve the handling and spend 2k and be happy with no power or you spend 15k and build a sleeper. Having owned 1 of the first HRVs in the country (had it for7yrs and 300,000kms ) I cansay ur comparison with the FD is hilarious. The FD is sweet handling modern 4 dr with heapsof room,classic styling !

[xenonkuraz]

Unlike the HRV, it's got the looks.

[aaronng]

Even something as simple as a CAI or SRI will cause the ECU to throw a CEL. It has an AFM after all.

[Sherweeeny]

Don't bother modding the FD series up unless you were planning to go hardcore. Even then, a cheaper car will still munch you. You remember back during the times of EM1, EK4 and EJ8? This civic is like the HRV. You can make it go fast by throwing money at it, but why would you?

wtf? how fail is this comparison? humour me as to how this is the case? the civic has a semi decent chassis with a semi decent motor. if by cheaper car you mean older, then thanks captain obvious, older cars are cheaper.

[Fredoops]

wtf? how fail is this comparison? humour me as to how this is the case? the civic has a semi decent chassis with a semi decent motor. if by cheaper car you mean older, then thanks captain obvious, older cars are cheaper.

Slap the ITR down as a yardstick. Price the work required for a FD to have the same performance level as an ITR or ITS, is going to cost the same as buying a ITR/ITS of the same age. That's how I understood Aarongs argument anyway.

[NeedVtec]

turbo.

[stndrd]

I know the owner of the black FD that was shown on the Modproject website and it cost a shit load to convert (as Modproject are not exactly cheap). In a straight line, his FD munches my EG B18C2 but around Winton, for what he has spent putting K20Z4 and coilovers, I have been able to get a comprehensive suspension, brake, tyre/wheel set up and I end up being about 3 sec a lap quicker (yes yes I know some people are going to scream power to weight, but we both have I/H/E and he has RBC or RRC & K-pro). For the money you are going to spend modding a FD chassis, I would personally go and buy an EG/EK, put a K20 or K24 in it, get a nice suspension & brake package happening and you will come out in front dollar wise and time slip wise

[Fredoops]

I know the owner of the black FD that was shown on the Modproject website and it cost a shit load to convert (as Modproject are not exactly cheap). In a straight line, his FD munches my EG B18C2 but around Winton, for what he has spent putting K20Z4 and coilovers, I have been able to get a comprehensive suspension, brake, tyre/wheel set up and I end up being about 3 sec a lap quicker (yes yes I know some people are going to scream power to weight, but we both have I/H/E and he has RBC or RRC & K-pro). For the money you are going to spend modding a FD chassis, I would personally go and buy an EG/EK, put a K20 or K24 in it, get a nice suspension & brake package happening and you will come out in front dollar wise and time slip wise

It puzzles me why all that effort for a K20Z when they could've well had a K24 Frankeinstein in there. The FD isn't exactly light.

3 second on a 3km track is a pretty big gap.

[stndrd]

I am not trying to trash his car in any way, shape or form. But I just thought this is a good comparison for the topic at hand

[Sherweeeny]

It puzzles me why all that effort for a K20Z when they could've well had a K24 Frankeinstein in there. The FD isn't exactly light.

3 second on a 3km track is a pretty big gap.

I guess you could try taking out all the airbags? Maybe then it would be as light as an EK.

[aaronng]

wtf? how fail is this comparison? humour me as to how this is the case? the civic has a semi decent chassis with a semi decent motor. if by cheaper car you mean older, then thanks captain obvious, older cars are cheaper.

Semi decent is semi decent. Firstly, the car is heavy. That is a major setback for outright acceleration. Even if you coax 140kW ATW out of the engine, it still won't accelerate as quickly as you expect it to because of its weight. This is a car that weighs 1260kg stock.

The next thing is the engine. It is an engine designed for fuel economy and low RPM torque flexibility. You are not going to be able to turn it into a smoking hot motor generating peak torque high at the top of the RPM range without major work. It has VTEC only on the inlet side and even then it is to promote better fuel mixing (12-valve low-cam/16-valve high-cam). Then you start looking at turbo options to push beyond 140kW. You're looking at an aftermarket programmable ECU. This is assuming that there is a solution like the Kpro for the FD2. Last I checked, the FD2 was not on the supported ECU list. So you end up with something like a KPro'd FN2R ECU harnessed to the stock FD2 ECU in order to keep the dashboard and aircon working. Even with this solution, cruise and traction control do not work anymore. So if you were going to go to this level of cost, you should do an engine swap to a K20Z3 or K24A3 instead of cracking open the K20Z2 in the hope of getting it to reach 8500rpm.

I'm not saying that the Civic is a bad car. It is a great car for regular use. But if you are trying to turn it into a track/acceleration monster, there are many hurdles to overcome which will cost so much money that it would be cheaper for TroyS2000 to keep his S2K, get the FD2 Civic and keep it stock compared to modding the FD2 to go as quick as his S2K. I own a CL9 and we have the exact same problem. Great engine, great chassis, extremely heavy car and no way to reliably and cost-effectively push high power numbers to offset the weight (we also have the ECU issue as well).

[curtis265]

I know the owner of the black FD that was shown on the Modproject website and it cost a shit load to convert (as Modproject are not exactly cheap). In a straight line, his FD munches my EG B18C2 but around Winton, for what he has spent putting K20Z4 and coilovers, I have been able to get a comprehensive suspension, brake, tyre/wheel set up and I end up being about 3 sec a lap quicker (yes yes I know some people are going to scream power to weight, but we both have I/H/E and he has RBC or RRC & K-pro). For the money you are going to spend modding a FD chassis, I would personally go and buy an EG/EK, put a K20 or K24 in it, get a nice suspension & brake package happening and you will come out in front dollar wise and time slip wise

then i'd buy an s13? because it's right wheel drive and turbo?

[Fredoops]

I guess you could try taking out all the airbags? Maybe then it would be as light as an EK.

Not.even.close.
Your civics 1300 odd kg's compared to 1050 and 1100 odd for eg/ek

You can cut the roof open and ripout the engine/tranny/all wirings an it'll still be heavier than a bloody b-swap eg/ek

[Stevil]

Whats a stock EK weigh ? 1050-1070kg (only guessing), thats only about 100kg lighter than an FD1, 200kg lighter than an FD2 and about 330kgs lighter than a Euro. So tell me if ya want for 4 doors and a decent boot which has the most potential ????

[aaronng]

Whats a stock EK weigh ? 1050-1070kg (only guessing), thats only about 100kg lighter than an FD1, 200kg lighter than an FD2 and about 330kgs lighter than a Euro. So tell me if ya want for 4 doors and a decent boot which has the most potential ????

I'm not doubting the potential of the FD2. But it is the cost of reaching that potential which is the issue. There are other cars beyond the Honda range that would better suit the performance 4 door requirement. For straight line, even an Aurion will munch a 140kW FD2 (to match the power to weight ratio, you need a 157kW FD2). This is assuming that the owner does not take it onto a circuit track, where the Civic will corner much better than the Aurion.

It's just that one should not buy the FD2 with the expectation that it will be a high performance sedan.

[Stevil]

Aaronng mate Im onside with the fd1 ! I bought fd1 as a cheap work car and to flog on the track, it does both well ! If ya gunna build a 4Dr lighweight cheap trackable modern car then what r th choices ?

[JohnO]

Why not just save the hassle and opt for the usual evo/sti/golf r32/r/gti/skyline and silvias

Straight out of the box fun, you can always throw money in there and you'll smile



Modern day cars to mod would be the evo x, sti spec r, golf gti/r
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[Fredoops]

Aaronng mate Im onside with the fd1 ! I bought fd1 as a cheap work car and to flog on the track, it does both well ! If ya gunna build a 4Dr lighweight cheap trackable modern car then what r th choices ?

A 2006 FD Civic sport is between 17000-19000 approx
A 2005-2006 WRX is 18000-20000 approx....

Once you started to work on the FD, with the usual K-frank etc etc, you'll be approaching Evo 8/STi prices of comparitive age.

[Stevil]

Evo/STI/GTi,Golf R all weigh how much ? Thats right about 1400 kg +, I guess there is a tiny potential for weight loss but with extra diffs and multiple clutches they are alway gunna be heavy.

They all cost a shit loads to service and insure. A 5-6 year old WRX is heavy old smoking time bomb, how much is a quality rebuild of one of these motors. I've been to Wakefield twice last year and I am yet to see either a GTI or an WRX of any sort on the track !! I wonder why ? have seen an R36 wagon and the piece of shit vti wlaked away from it !

Yep plenty of Evo 7/8/9's banging round the track and most I saw were smokey as shit off and on throttle, hell ya'd almost think they were a 2 stroke. The only Evo worth owning would be a VI, perfect blend of power/handling and weight.

My 2011 FD1 was 19.9K drive away, in 3 years mine will be worth 9-10K tops, If I could K24 add a few bolts ons it still gunna be more fun and cheaper than the cars listed. Each to their own I guess.

[u mad?]

Evo/STI/GTi,Golf R all weigh how much ? Thats right about 1400 kg +, I guess there is a tiny potential for weight loss but with extra diffs and multiple clutches they are alway gunna be heavy.

They all cost a shit loads to service and insure. A 5-6 year old WRX is heavy old smoking time bomb, how much is a quality rebuild of one of these motors. I've been to Wakefield twice last year and I am yet to see either a GTI or an WRX of any sort on the track !! I wonder why ? have seen an R36 wagon and the piece of shit vti wlaked away from it !

Yep plenty of Evo 7/8/9's banging round the track and most I saw were smokey as shit off and on throttle, hell ya'd almost think they were a 2 stroke. The only Evo worth owning would be a VI, perfect blend of power/handling and weight.

My 2011 FD1 was 19.9K drive away, in 3 years mine will be worth 9-10K tops, If I could K24 add a few bolts ons it still gunna be more fun and cheaper than the cars listed. Each to their own I guess.

lmao, wow. the honda fanboy is strong in this one guys

[u mad?]

I guess you could try taking out all the airbags? Maybe then it would be as light as an EK.

You're not serious..... right?

[JohnO]

Fan boys get the fck over it, its a fuel economy civic. The amount you spend on a kswap you could easily buy something that's got more torque and power than your fd. You might aswell put it into a lotus with a frankenstein k and be making more power to weight. I'm just saying that from factory these cars produce better figures. It's more about skill level on track you could be in a shit bomb with good suspension and tackle corners better than others.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[JohnO]

You can't have everything mate its either for track purposes or street use/ weekend warrior . With modern cars you'll have so many different features it adds weight.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[denrie]

Agree with Johno! Lol

[NeedVtec]

End of the day a four door, fuel economy focused family car will never compare to a high performance sedan.

[JohnO]

Unless he buys that fd2r on carsales

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[NeedVtec]

But then again, correct me if im wrong, thats a 50g+ high performance sedan. Like evo's and such.

[JohnO]

He'll still complain the Evo is fat and heavy

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[NeedVtec]

Hmmm.. dat dere hondarfanboism i think.

[JohnO]

Hardcore fanism has taken control

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[xenonkuraz]

End of the day a four door, fuel economy focused family car will never compare to a high performance sedan.

What makes you think you can't have a fuel economy focused high performance family car?

Because if any of you dare say it's impossible, then none of you know what the f*ck you are on about.

I have modded my FD2 to 180KW ATW and with the amount of torque and power I have can leave most typical turbo cars in the dust.

I also get BETTER fuel economy than I did previously due to the nature of the tune.

43 litres will get me 470km mixed freeway and city driving, rev-happy.


Then you start looking at turbo options to push beyond 140kW. You're looking at an aftermarket programmable ECU. This is assuming that there is a solution like the Kpro for the FD2. Last I checked, the FD2 was not on the supported ECU list. So you end up with something like a KPro'd FN2R ECU harnessed to the stock FD2 ECU in order to keep the dashboard and aircon working. Even with this solution, cruise and traction control do not work anymore.

I have an aftermarket ECU running air con, cruise control, have no CELs, etc.


Fan boys get the fck over it, its a fuel economy civic. The amount you spend on a kswap you could easily buy something that's got more torque and power than your fd. You might aswell put it into a lotus with a frankenstein k and be making more power to weight. I'm just saying that from factory these cars produce better figures.

I don't think you get the point these guys are trying to make.

They don't want an off-the-production-line-typical-high-performance-car-with-no-daily-driver-features.

They want the FD for it's stylish looks, family-friendly seating, luxury creature comforts, etc...AND be able to make it an enjoyable, zippy sports car at the same time.

It's not asking for too much.

How much they spend? That's up to them.

I was able to accomplish my dream car, spending less than what it would have cost me buying a new evo or sti.



Honda fan boy what?

[aaronng]

I have an aftermarket ECU running air con, cruise control, have no CELs, etc.

Which ECU is this? Is it a piggyback/interceptor like the Haltech/Emanage/AEM? Or is a fullly programmable standalone like the Kpro?