HELP!! - Coolant Overflow filling up and not returning - WTF?

[IV73CI]

Ive search the entire universe and cant obtain a concrete solution as the answers where all over the place ... lol. :(

Hi guys,

In the last couple of days,

noticed that the coolant overflow bottle is filling up and not returning the coolant back into the radiator. Therefore i am constantly topping up the radiator when it has cooled down.

There is signs of coolant in the top tank when i top up - so the radiator is not dried up.

Seems that its not holding pressure or there is AIR in the system.

Inspections
- No signs of any leaks/worn rad hoses or punctured clamps etc.
- Temp needle fluctuates from middle line to just above the middle line
- Radiator has no signs of any leaks, damaged core/fins, or any signs of oil/gunk residue.
- Water pump is good as gold and no signs of leaks either
- Coolant has not reach boiling point level (coolant not boiling)
- HG not damaged/leaking (afaik)
- Heater hoses are connected correctly
- The siphon on the overflow is good and no signs of holes/punctures etc.
- Overflow bottle/cap is on and not damaged
- Radiator fan turns on but very late - and i would assume its too late when it turns on that the coolant overflowed to the bottle by this point.

Whats been done
- It has a low temp thermostat
- It used to have a low temp fan switch but was replaced back to OEM item due to connector damaged.
- Radiator is an ebay 43mm Alloy high quality core
- Radiator Cap is a 1.1bar (came with the radiator)
- Coolant was flushed recently 40c/60w mix

What could be the problem?
- Should i replace back to a low temp fan switch?
- replace to a new low temp thermostat for assurance?
- Reflush the entire system again for assurance?
- Bleed the system? (how do you bleed the cooling system properly? is there a DIY? - where is the bleed valve on the top hose housing?)
- Replace the crappy 1.1bar rad cap for a 1.3bar cap ftw?
- Radiator fan turns on but very late - and i would assume its too late when it turns on that the coolant overflowed to the bottle by this point.

oh its a B20VTEC conversion recently.

thnx fellaz

[stndrd]

By the sounds of it, the radiator cap is faulty. Replace the cap and see how you go

[hondapop]

It may also be that the cap you're using is not matched to the radiator. Check the diameter of the washer and whether it is contacting it's seat. You should have to push it down slightly against it's spring before turning.

[IV73CI]

It may also be that the cap you're using is not matched to the radiator. Check the diameter of the washer and whether it is contacting it's seat. You should have to push it down slightly against it's spring before turning.

yeh im getting one this weekend, its funny coz when i put the rad cap in it just slips in smoothly without any force .... doesnt seem right ..but yet again ..was working ok when i had my b16 ...


By the sounds of it, the radiator cap is faulty. Replace the cap and see how you go

getting one on the weekend ... hopefully someone's got one that matches the diameter of my rad ...

[Banana_hammock]

Problem is definitely the cap. It's spring loaded to allow coolant flow from the overflow bottle to the radiator. Looks like yours allows flow from the radiator to the bottle but not the other way.

[IV73CI]

Problem is definitely the cap. It's spring loaded to allow coolant flow from the overflow bottle to the radiator. Looks like yours allows flow from the radiator to the bottle but not the other way.

I hope so.. Imma change to low temp fan switch anyways and get a rad cap.

Will update shortly

[stndrd]

If you are running low temp fan switch, low temp thermostat & high pressure rad cap, you will need to re-tune your ecu so that your afr's are all accurate to the lower engine temp's instead of having it over fuel thinking that it is still in the warm up period

[jezza30]

the oem fan switch is fine. never had any dramas with it.
even when pushing the car hard. still stayed cool, temp bar never went any higher. even with a leaking radiator core ;)

Most likely what everyone is saying, the radiator cap.

[IV73CI]

i Changed to the below;

New Mugen Low temp thermostat
JRacing Low Temp Fan switch
New Greddy 1.3bar Rad cap

and still does it .. doesnt overheat at all, but everytime im done driving and let the engine cool down ...i checked the radiator and the top tank always requires top up as the fluid is in the overflow reservoir...

the radiator is not dried up nor has any leaks ..

might have to get a proper KOYO rad and see if this resolves the problem ..

[stndrd]

Try re-bleeding the cooling system with the heater on & then see what happens. You could still possibly have an air pocket

[IV73CI]

Try re-bleeding the cooling system with the heater on & then see what happens. You could still possibly have an air pocket

ive bleed it so many times ...even having the fan turn on like 3-5 times on idle with the heater on full blast ..still not fixing the issue.

when i leave the rad cap open, i watch the coolant levels go up and overflows from the top tank (not blubbling) then drops the levels in the top tank as the fan turns on - i then top it up with coolant as the fans go on..

weird shit.

apparently it never had any issues with a full sized radiator tank.

mayb i need to switch to full size?

[stndrd]

Have a chat to the boys at BYP as they supplied the engine for you and will be able to advise you accordingly

[IV73CI]

Have a chat to the boys at BYP as they supplied the engine for you and will be able to advise you accordingly

already did ...but there is nothing more they can do ...as it was working fine in the previous car donor.

only suggested solution was to go full sized as my current ebay twin core alloy rad could probably not handle the heat (maybe shit fin cores etc).

*sign*

[stndrd]

If the previous car was running a full size, I would say to upgrade, or even just see if you can borrow one off someone you know that has one kicking around and see what the difference is

[seihoa]

headgasket....

[IV73CI]

If the previous car was running a full size, I would say to upgrade, or even just see if you can borrow one off someone you know that has one kicking around and see what the difference is

yeh tru ..ive spend shit loads already on the most easiest fix.

now the big mulla comes down to a full sized radiator.

prob is i dont know of any1 who can lend me a full sized rad or even a half size rad KOYO or similar (better quality than the one i have) and test trial it.

*sigh again*

[IV73CI]

headgasket....

reckon?

no signs of overheating nor blubbles or smoke from the zorst.

prev car donor had no issues with o/heating in the dc2.....and they even had a leaking radiator too .. lol (topped up fluid all the time)

[stndrd]

If you want to make sure it's not a headgasket, get the car to operating temp, take out all the spark plugs & stick a screwdriver in each cylinder one at a time and after you have removed it, see if there is any condensation on the screwdriver. If you get condensation on the screwdriver after a particular cylinder, that is the cylinder where the headgasket is not sealing correctly. If nothing shows, try cranking the engine over with no plugs in and see if any coolant shoots up and out.

Otherwise carry out a TK head check on the cooling system to see if you are getting any combustion gases into the cooling system

[IV73CI]

If you want to make sure it's not a headgasket, get the car to operating temp, take out all the spark plugs & stick a screwdriver in each cylinder one at a time and after you have removed it, see if there is any condensation on the screwdriver. If you get condensation on the screwdriver after a particular cylinder, that is the cylinder where the headgasket is not sealing correctly. If nothing shows, try cranking the engine over with no plugs in and see if any coolant shoots up and out.

Otherwise carry out a TK head check on the cooling system to see if you are getting any combustion gases into the cooling system

man ..i think ill get the BYP boyz to this this or similar checks, i dont want to fcuk the engine up which would result to being my fault.

wats a TK head check?

[jdm18c]

http://www.warrenandbrown.com.au/IncludeFolder/PTPDF/54_TK01.pdf

try a full size raditator first i reakon

pretty much with the tk head tester you get the thing and you pour the dy in it, start car and remove the radiator cap, run and put the tester over where the cap should be, hold down firm and if it changes colour you have a problem could be pouress head or block ect

[JayTea18]

I had the same problem in my teg . Turned out to be a commen sense fix the reservoirs tube that sucks the coolant out wasnt there. I had to figure it out my self. Might wana double check if its there

[IV73CI]

I had the same problem in my teg . Turned out to be a commen sense fix the reservoirs tube that sucks the coolant out wasnt there. I had to figure it out my self. Might wana double check if its there

Yeh the tube is there and its not punctured..

[GSi_PSi]

hey bud, like i told you, i suggest its the radiator, upgrade to a branded halfsize with 3cores

[IV73CI]

hey bud, like i told you, i suggest its the radiator, upgrade to a branded halfsize with 3cores

just trying to figure out whether i should go half or full sized..

[stndrd]

If you know that there was no problems like this with a full size, I would recommend a full size, as you may possibly end up forking out for a koyo half size and it doesn't make a difference

[IV73CI]

If you know that there was no problems like this with a full size, I would recommend a full size, as you may possibly end up forking out for a koyo half size and it doesn't make a difference

ikr ...but i want to keep my AC..so im in risk here..

either buy a half sized and retain AC or buy full size and loose AC or retro fit AC.

[stndrd]

I don't know whats invloved but would you be able to use a dc2 condensor with a full size rad?

[IV73CI]

I don't know whats invloved but would you be able to use a dc2 condensor with a full size rad?

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?160004-Converting-from-Half-sized-Radiator-to-Full-size-on-an-EM-EK-Keeping-AC

[XB-16-AX]

a recent conversion? ...

sounds like a head gasket or someting

are you sure u didnt buy a lemon conversion motor?

if u have tried everything and still doing the same thing, the its obvious that its not holding pressure in the cooling system and overflowing the coolant reserve.

the cooling system is suppose to be sealed pressurised - no air / leaks / cracks. if one of these mishaps occurs, then you will have erratic cooling system and wont make it a sealed pressurised system.

[Bludger]

so much bad advice.

I've had this problem.

If you've checked everything then it's BHG.

big radiator aint gonna do shit if the coolant isn't returning back to the radiator.

[Bludger]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?143471-coolant-issue-need-quick-answer-please.

[IV73CI]

so much bad advice.

I've had this problem.

If you've checked everything then it's BHG.

big radiator aint gonna do shit if the coolant isn't returning back to the radiator.

Ill be getting a cooling pressure test tomorrow.. Aint buying a new rad since ive never had issues wit my current rad until the conversion...

What are the pressurised reading am i suppose to be expecting...?

Never had a this test before..

[TODA AU]

Hold 13-15psi for 20 mins

[IV73CI]

Hold 13-15psi for 20 mins
Thanks Adrian..

If its lower or higher what does it mean??

[TODA AU]

Thanks Adrian..

If its lower or higher what does it mean??

Set the pressure to say 15psi & walk away.
15~20mins later, come back & see what the pressure is...
If it has dropped, you have a leak.
If it's the same, all good...
If it has increased, someone is hiding in the dunny playing tricks on you. :p

[IV73CI]

Set the pressure to say 15psi & walk away.
15~20mins later, come back & see what the pressure is...
If it has dropped, you have a leak.
If it's the same, all good...
If it has increased, someone is hiding in the dunny playing tricks on you. :p

So if all hoses, radiator are not leaking then could it be the HG leaking even just a bit cracked could cause my erratic overflow issues?

Im not getting any smoke coming frm the zorst nor any signs of gunk on the rad cap or inside the overflow??

[seihoa]

As i said before its the Headgasket.

Would be asking the supplier of the engine to provide some sort of warranty esp if its from a shop.

Also why not just take it to a mechanic n get them to suss it out?

HG doesnt always mean milky oil , gunk on radiator cap n blowing smoke.

Full size half size same shit, Wouldnt affect the return flow.

[IV73CI]

As i said before its the Headgasket.

Would be asking the supplier of the engine to provide some sort of warranty esp if its from a shop.

Also why not just take it to a mechanic n get them to suss it out?

HG doesnt always mean milky oil , gunk on radiator cap n blowing smoke.

Full size half size same shit, Wouldnt affect the return flow.

Yeh.. Its gone down to the last resort.. Pressure test then HG.

All other possibilities has been looked at and replaced. Now its down to the big shit. Which has pissed me off as everytime b4 i run the car im always checking and topping up the radiator. And whilst driving always monitoring the temp needle as its fluctuating from half to above half.

Isnt having a low temp thermo n fan switch should make my temp needle to sit liwer than half right??

[Bludger]

mine was BHG.

checked everything.

[TODA AU]

How did you go?

[Sexc86]

You have a weeping / leaking head gasket (not a blown head gasket, slightly different). You probably dont see any bubbles when your bleeding the system. Most leaking / weeping head gaskets only start once your engine is under driving load and up to full operational temperature.

Fill up your system & bleed it as best you can. Take your car for a good hard drive then pull over and remove your radiator cap strait away. Obviously be carefull that it does not explode on you! .. put a big towl over the cap and slowly release all the pressure from the radiator. If you see lots of small bubbleing - leaking head gasket. Go buy a Tee-kay tester and do a test, if the tekay solution changes colour from blue to yellow - you are passing combustion pressure into your cooling system, that is pushing all your coolant out of your radiator.

[IV73CI]

You have a weeping / leaking head gasket (not a blown head gasket, slightly different). You probably dont see any bubbles when your bleeding the system. Most leaking / weeping head gaskets only start once your engine is under driving load and up to full operational temperature.

Fill up your system & bleed it as best you can. Take your car for a good hard drive then pull over and remove your radiator cap strait away. Obviously be carefull that it does not explode on you! .. put a big towl over the cap and slowly release all the pressure from the radiator. If you see lots of small bubbleing - leaking head gasket. Go buy a Tee-kay tester and do a test, if the tekay solution changes colour from blue to yellow - you are passing combustion pressure into your cooling system, that is pushing all your coolant out of your radiator.

We did do a TK test and the solution stayed blue = PASS


How did you go?

FAIL - Couldn't do a Cooling System pressure test as the radiator cap adaptor did not fit my crappy radiator top tank.

We did a comp test results: 230|220|220|230 (11.3.1 CR) = PASS

ARC trial 53mm radiator to the test as we speak = TBA.

I am draining out the entire cooling system (coolant). i unplugged the 19mm drainage bolt which sits below the Exhaust manifold (B20 block).

I opened up the thermo housing and removed the newly fitted thermostat to drain the old coolant.

Clean and flushed the trial radiator.

stupid EK fan mounting didnt fit the ARC trial rad as this was for an EG. = retro fitting the fan now.

will update after everything is fitted and new coolant is in.

[TODA AU]

FAIL - Couldn't do a Cooling System pressure test as the radiator cap adaptor did not fit my crappy radiator top tank.

Maybe go somewhere that can do the job,
It's not rocket science.

Re 1-4 / 2-3
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Benson]

Engine temps were perfect on the dyno! 84'c on pulls and 90'c max on constant dyno runs. It also picked up a few more kw's :p

[IV73CI]

OK

just done the flush and refit everything.

burp the entire system (allowed the fan to switch on 5 times by hitting the revs to raise the temp levels up. (took me 45mins)

..and went for a drive..

the overflow bottle was on MIN level before i drove out.

after a good 45mins hard runs Vtakking and also tuning the S300 TPS ...

ECT showed a steady 82-87 ... fan switched on several times

Got back home and idled for abit .... to let the engine cool ...then off.

checked the overflow and the levels was just above max line.

i let it cooled and opened the rad cap slowly to release any pressure.... pressure was released... checked the top tank and topped up the coolant.

i will test trial this ARC radiator and see how it goes ..FCUK!!

[Lukezen27]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?156645-solved-Need-help-car-heats-up-on-VTEC!-But-only-on-very-hard-runs!&p=3121310#post3121310 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?156645-solved-Need-help-car-heats-up-on-VTEC%21-But-only-on-very-hard-runs%21&p=3121310#post3121310)

HG mosted times :(

Always test before getting works done

[Sexc86]

Did you do your TK test before or after you went for a drive?

Also i would recommend doing a cylinder pressure test (with the radiator cap removed) and a radiator pressure test (with your spark plugs removed)


We did do a TK test and the solution stayed blue = PASS



FAIL - Couldn't do a Cooling System pressure test as the radiator cap adaptor did not fit my crappy radiator top tank.

We did a comp test results: 230|220|220|230 (11.3.1 CR) = PASS

ARC trial 53mm radiator to the test as we speak = TBA.

I am draining out the entire cooling system (coolant). i unplugged the 19mm drainage bolt which sits below the Exhaust manifold (B20 block).

I opened up the thermo housing and removed the newly fitted thermostat to drain the old coolant.

Clean and flushed the trial radiator.

stupid EK fan mounting didnt fit the ARC trial rad as this was for an EG. = retro fitting the fan now.

will update after everything is fitted and new coolant is in.

[Bludger]

why are you trying another radiator for?

[IV73CI]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?156645-solved-Need-help-car-heats-up-on-VTEC!-But-only-on-very-hard-runs!&p=3121310#post3121310 (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?156645-solved-Need-help-car-heats-up-on-VTEC%21-But-only-on-very-hard-runs%21&p=3121310#post3121310)

HG mosted times :(

Always test before getting works done

yeh ikr ...thats why i have been wasting alot of times testing, troubleshooting ..and still no good.


Did you do your TK test before or after you went for a drive?

Also i would recommend doing a cylinder pressure test (with the radiator cap removed) and a radiator pressure test (with your spark plugs removed)

the TK was done after a drive and approx 1hr later .... engine was running to full temp on idle and revving before the test was done.

isnt a cylinder pressure test a Compression test on each cylinder? we did this test with all the spark plugs removed and crank start the car .... = cylinders/compression was ok..

as i said ...ill test trial this ARC rad with the matching rad cap. but first i need to NOW replace my TOP and U shaped rear hose (from IM to Thermostat housing) hoses. as they started to FAT/expand like a mofo lastnight after a long drive to moore park to mosman to the westside... 2hr driving ..

if this new rad still fails, then the last resort is a NEW HG... as it may not show oil/coolant mixtures, heavy gunk, white smoke, leaks but it could be a leaking HG somewhere where its not returning pressure back in to the cooling system.

[IV73CI]

why are you trying another radiator for?

im test trialing another radiator (borrowed - working order) to eliminate the possible causes.

so far..i have replaced and completed tests as below;

REPLACED

1) Thermostat replaced to a new Mugen low temp
= Operating temperature: 68C (STD.: 76-80C), Full-throttle acceleration temperature: 81C (STD.: 90C

2) J'Racing Low tem fan switch
= Beginning operating temperature 80c(OEM 95c), temperature of Stopping 75c(OEM 90c)

3) Test trialing ARC 53mm Alloy Radiator (used - but working)
= Old radiator was a twin core allow ebay special - also used the rad cap that came with the radiator rated at 1.1bar

4) Trial use the radiator cap that came with the ARC.
- will also trial use my new Greddy/Trust 1.3bar cap after a couple of days of trialing the above.

5) Will replace OEM TOP hose & U-shape rear hose (IM to thermostat housing).
- only needed to replace this as it was soft and expanded due to high pressure in the cooling system.

IF ALL FAILS THEN;

6) Head Gasket **************will be the only thing left to do/replace once 4 & 5 is done and if it fails.

COMPLETED TESTS;

A) Cylinder compression tests (removed sparkplugs and crank start whilst testing with the Comp tester)
= Results were 230|220|220|230 all seems normal for a 11.3.1 CR.

B) TK blue solution (tested on idle, cap off, engine revving steady, norm Engine temp)
= Solution remained blue - unchanged

C) Cooling pressure test ****************
= Could not test due to rad cap adaptor didnt fit on ebay special radiator. will test on the ARC trial radiator soon.

D) No signs of any white smoke from the zorst
= though there is the normal condensation

E) There was minimal gunk in the coolant before changing to the ARC trial radiator
= have flushed system and no signs of gunk :)

F) No other signs of leaking hoses, oil/coolant mixtures.
- coolant only bubbles on a hard run and only inside the overflow bottle.
- will recheck this on the trial ARC radiator.


will update soon on the result of the new hoses and ARC trial use radiator.

Need to seriously get rid of these gremlins inside my cooling system so i can actually go for a track day :)

[Sexc86]

You need to do the teekay test strait after you have been for a drive - after the car has been under load and still warm. There are two types of cylinder pressure tests.

* Cylinder Compression test (These may indicate a blown head gasket - but usually not a leaking head gasket)
* Cylinder leak down test - Need to rotate your cylinder to TDC. Then you screw in a fitting to your spark plug thred with a pressure gauge / regulator (similar to one that is use to pump up your tyres) - This is a regular air tool run from a air compressor. You pressurise your cylinder chamber with the radiator cap off and take note of any bubbles or loss in pressure on the gauge.

I feel your pain mate, but i honestly think you have a leaking head gasket.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DUAL-GAUGE-LEAKDOWN-LEAK-DOWN-TESTER-NEW-/330584650378?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item4cf861728a




yeh ikr ...thats why i have been wasting alot of times testing, troubleshooting ..and still no good.



the TK was done after a drive and approx 1hr later .... engine was running to full temp on idle and revving before the test was done.

isnt a cylinder pressure test a Compression test on each cylinder? we did this test with all the spark plugs removed and crank start the car .... = cylinders/compression was ok..

as i said ...ill test trial this ARC rad with the matching rad cap. but first i need to NOW replace my TOP and U shaped rear hose (from IM to Thermostat housing) hoses. as they started to FAT/expand like a mofo lastnight after a long drive to moore park to mosman to the westside... 2hr driving ..

if this new rad still fails, then the last resort is a NEW HG... as it may not show oil/coolant mixtures, heavy gunk, white smoke, leaks but it could be a leaking HG somewhere where its not returning pressure back in to the cooling system.

[IV73CI]

Wat we did was a cylinder leak down test as it involved removal of spark plugs and insertion of a pressure gauge tool in the spark plug holes..

[Chr1s]

^ Compression and leak down are two different tests mate....

lol @ hoses starting to fat

[IV73CI]

Ikr... Da hoses were expanding dat it was gunna blow up lol...

Ive ordered a cometic 84.5 0.030 HG and timing belt/tensioner pulley..

Hoping for da parts to arrive early next week.

[u mad?]

so its confirmed it was a bhg?

how long had you had the engine?

[IV73CI]

well I and pretty much the entire WWW and other reputable local cooling radiator places said that its leaning towards a Blown or Leaking HG. As most of the tests has been done and shows signs/symptoms of a HG.

Others have even said ..just one of those unexplained problem .. LOL ..

the motor/conversion has just reached 2mnths.

So atm just waiting on parts to arrive from U.S. and then get crackin in removing the Head.

[grifty]

so u changed the radiator and still the same problem?

[IV73CI]

so u changed the radiator and still the same problem?

Yeh dude, same thing..

More signs now leaning towards a BHG.

1) im now startin to loose coolant too, theres no leaks on any hoses, so its being burnt in the engine.

2) smoke is coming put of the zorst in startup/idle and even after driving for 1+hrs.. Still smokin...

3) alot if condensation coming out of the zorst too on any engine temp. And has alredy destroyed my exhaust pipe gaskets. :(

4) idle is very rough now too. Cold or warm...

5) bubble activities are happening inside the overflow like a mofo

Those above signs are BHG yeh??

Can i get an amen??? Hellelujiah!!!

[hondapop]

It's now become very obvious and must be deteriorating rapidly. Amens are in order but not sure about the Halleljiah's. If you can avoid driving it will be best as now water will be getting into the oil.

[IV73CI]

It's now become very obvious and must be deteriorating rapidly. Amens are in order but not sure about the Halleljiah's. If you can avoid driving it will be best as now water will be getting into the oil.

Amen!! Lol

Water/coolant hasnt mixed yet wit oil (well dont know what it will look like, some say like a milky choc shake or something)

But def getting worse.

Car is no longer being driven until parts arrive.

Cars eh.. Its like a mofo!!

[GSi_PSi]

damn, headgasket is no biggie though, GPC did one for $500

[dougie_504]

Yeah just keep checking your oil in the dip stick + oil cap. Chocolate milkshake is a good description. This is bad. Coolant into cylinders isn't as bad though, can go either way.

[IV73CI]

damn, headgasket is no biggie though, GPC did one for $500

Ikr .. But bcoz the motor still has warranty it will be sorted accordingly.

And GPC wont knw wat HG to get. They mite just wack in an oem spec and make things worse latter in the track!! No offence at all, but they dont knw wats been done to the motor.

[IV73CI]

Yeah just keep checking your oil in the dip stick + oil cap. Chocolate milkshake is a good description. This is bad. Coolant into cylinders isn't as bad though, can go either way.

Been doin dat b4 but have now decided to let her rest until all replaced and resolved.

If it still doesnt come to a HG.. Im going shoot myself .. :p

[GSi_PSi]

Ikr .. But bcoz the motor still has warranty it will be sorted accordingly.

And GPC wont knw wat HG to get. They mite just wack in an oem spec and make things worse latter in the track!! No offence at all, but they dont knw wats been done to the motor.

Lol bro, GPC have done hundreds if not thousands of B20 conversions, im pretty sure they would be know what head gasket to use.

[stndrd]

Make sure when the head comes off that it is crack tested at combustion chamber pressure, as I have come accross a few heads in the recent past that have cracked, but are not evident at cooling system pressure

[IV73CI]

Lol bro, GPC have done hundreds if not thousands of B20 conversions, im pretty sure they would be know what head gasket to use.

No doubt at all.

But probably STD B20 with standard internals.

But to be on the safeside i rather get the person who build the motor or knows the motor build from scratch to replace it..

This motor was built for track/drags.. So internals has been tweaked and pretty much modded.

[IV73CI]

Make sure when the head comes off that it is crack tested at combustion chamber pressure, as I have come accross a few heads in the recent past that have cracked, but are not evident at cooling system pressure

Yep.. Thanks will definately ensure they make the necessary tests when the head is off.

[TODA AU]

Lol bro, GPC have done hundreds if not thousands of B20 conversions, im pretty sure they would be know what head gasket to use.

& every one of them was a turd...
Nuf said........

[IV73CI]

& every one of them was a turd...
Nuf said........

LOL .

hahah

[Bludger]

I really don't get this reppin people feel they have to give people.

GPC, BYP, BAU.

Even the most trusted of mechanics. they work on time. rush it.


I trust DIY.

[IV73CI]

I really don't get this reppin people feel they have to give people.

GPC, BYP, BAU.

Even the most trusted of mechanics. they work on time. rush it.


I trust DIY.

Would love to do DIY but dont have torque tools.. :(

[Bludger]

send me pm.

[IV73CI]

Fck USPS express .. Hurry the fck up and deliver my Comitec HG..

Accordig to the tracker, it left the NY International sorting facilities on thursday, so it should arrive aust customs tonight and hopefully be delivered monday or tuesday the latest.. Its a 3-5day service..from the moment its been posted at the PO.

[rndy444]

had the same dilemma before, I just changed my radiator cap to 1.1, and also double check the wirings of your fan.

[IV73CI]

had the same dilemma before, I just changed my radiator cap to 1.1, and also double check the wirings of your fan.

Yeh did all that as part of the preliminary checks and all was fine.

Rad fan came on and off when required.

Pretty much leaning towards BHG

[u mad?]

& every one of them was a turd...
Nuf said........

shhhhiiiiiieeeeettttt.gif

[IV73CI]

Crack in da sleeve. (cyl 3) :(

[Lukezen27]

Crack in da sleeve. (cyl 3) :(

WTF?

Was it a built motor?

[IV73CI]

WTF?

Was it a built motor?

Yep .. Built. Motor..

But no sleeve protector or block guard.

Shame coz i could feel da potential for more..

[Lukezen27]

Yep .. Built. Motor..

But no sleeve protector or block guard.

Shame coz i could feel da potential for more..

Dang

Warranty?

What power was she put'n out to damage the block?

Even the boost guys don't always sleevethe block

[GSi_PSi]

Damn B20's gonna B20 lol. Maybe time to go all out and sleeve them walls to 86mm

[IV73CI]

Dang

Warranty?

What power was she put'n out to damage the block?

Even the boost guys don't always sleevethe block

Warranty etc is all sorted.

she pulled with CAI max 155fwkw with a cracked sleeve. LOL.

short ram = 149fwkw


Damn B20's gonna B20 lol. Maybe time to go all out and sleeve them walls to 86mm

lol ..too much money and time, cbf anymore with B20.. i even got a new Cometic HG 84.5mm which im just going to sell off...

its time for a new project.. :p (work in progress as we speak)

[Lukezen27]

Warranty etc is all sorted.

she pulled with CAI max 155fwkw with a cracked sleeve. LOL.

short ram = 149fwkw



lol ..too much money and time, cbf anymore with B20.. i even got a new Cometic HG 84.5mm which im just going to sell off...

its time for a new project.. :p (work in progress as we speak)

Good to hear :thumbsup:

[u mad?]

k24 in the works for sure

[Sexc86]

Warranty etc is all sorted.

she pulled with CAI max 155fwkw with a cracked sleeve. LOL.

short ram = 149fwkw



lol ..too much money and time, cbf anymore with B20.. i even got a new Cometic HG 84.5mm which im just going to sell off...

its time for a new project.. :p (work in progress as we speak)

Sorry to hear that mate, hope you learnt a thing or two from the whole process !

[IV73CI]

k24 in the works for sure

K20 or K24 sounds good to me ..but i need to know which of the two will be better for potential power in the long run..


Sorry to hear that mate, hope you learnt a thing or two from the whole process !

yeh i learnt not buy built motors... lol

[Lukezen27]

K20 or K24 sounds good to me ..but i need to know which of the two will be better for potential power in the long run..



yeh i learnt not buy built motors... lol

Was your B20 legally registered?

[u mad?]

K20 or K24 sounds good to me ..but i need to know which of the two will be better for potential power in the long run..



yeh i learnt not buy built motors... lol

k24

srs, i wen't with jdm k20a, but i didn't know all that much about k series at the time, as much as i love the k20a i wish i went 2.4.


unless you plan on racing in under 2lt classes ect

[IV73CI]

Was your B20 legally registered?

didnt even get the chance to do all that - which is good in a way


k24

srs, i wen't with jdm k20a, but i didn't know all that much about k series at the time, as much as i love the k20a i wish i went 2.4.

unless you plan on racing in under 2lt classes ect

so u reckon K24 ftw?

was thinking along the K20Z from Type S?

apparently better for turbo over the K24 block in the long run...?

[Lukezen27]

didnt even get the chance to do all that - which is good in a way



so u reckon K24 ftw?

was thinking along the K20Z from Type S?

apparently better for turbo over the K24 block in the long run...?

Its very hard to do a K24 legally man

Look into it first

[u mad?]

k20z is goot for boost yes, one here in aus was making over 400 hp with rotrex c38-81 (or 91, can't remember), stock engine.


just go k24 with c38-91 with bost by gear for driveable 1-3 and wastegate to regulate peak boost. run on e85 with goot tune. way more then enough for the street. this is what i'd love to do.

plus if k24 goes pop no big deal, just buy another long block for fuk all and chuck it in.

[Lukezen27]

k20z is goot for boost yes, one here in aus was making over 400 hp with rotrex c38-81 (or 91, can't remember), stock engine.


just go k24 with c38-91 with bost by gear for driveable 1-3 and wastegate to regulate peak boost. run on e85 with goot tune. way more then enough for the street. this is what i'd love to do.

plus if k24 goes pop no big deal, just buy another long block for fuk all and chuck it in.

I'm rotrex my K20A

can't wait heheh

[u mad?]

I'm rotrex my K20A

can't wait heheh

Nice! you wont be dissapointed

[IV73CI]

yeh the main factor of the k24 is engineering ...esp nowadays with operation "KILOWATS" .. lol

so i think K20 (type S) ftw ..but will depend again on budget restraints.. as the fcken B20 cost me my many yrs of CC payback back to zero. lol

and if the K20 block ever dies, then pop in a K24 block for a super dooper ftw! lol

[Lukezen27]

yeh the main factor of the k24 is engineering ...esp nowadays with operation "KILOWATS" .. lol

so i think K20 (type S) ftw ..but will depend again on budget restraints.. as the fcken B20 cost me my many yrs of CC payback back to zero. lol

and if the K20 block ever dies, then pop in a K24 block for a super dooper ftw! lol

lol I know the feeling man

My current loan for my EP3 still has 8k for work owing from my old EG5 Turbo project hahah


Nice! you wont be dissapointed

Hoping for high 11's

[IV73CI]

yeh same boat bro ...mortgage, other debts, 3 kids, single income earner - **** the list goes on .. LOL.. shit we do for happiness

[Mr.Brightside]

Both a K20 and a K24 will require a eng cert going into a EM1 chassis. So same steps to get it registered, imo i'd go 2.4

[IV73CI]

Both a K20 and a K24 will require a eng cert going into a EM1 chassis. So same steps to get it registered, imo i'd go 2.4

Tru..

Prob is that the engineers also go by the engine displacement output power vs total brake power (safety) and emission testing.

So thw bigger the engine cc means the better the brakes should be.

Too much hassle.

But will a k20z shit on k24 both standard form in an ek/em?

Btw cant wait to see ur dc2 finished @ BYP workshop..

[Mr.Brightside]

I've had experience with many K-Swaps, and i always prefer the K24 over a K20 swap, ESP for daily driving. Peak power isnt everything :P

[u mad?]

as in just boltons and tune?

k24 will have similar peak power as k20, though it (2lt) wont have anywhere near as much grunt from 1000-6000 rpm


k24 is pretty much better in every way

chuck on 50vtc and tsx intake came, k20 oil pump and you'll have a ripper of an engine

plus.... your going from a 150kw b20, doubt you'd be all that impressed with a k20.

[u mad?]

I've had experience with many K-Swaps, and i always prefer the K24 over a K20 swap, ESP for daily driving. Peak power isnt everything :P

yep, loved the low end /midrange power on the gold byp k24 even though it was pretty basic. felt great to be pushed into your seat by 4k rpm. nice to drive in traffic minus the power steering (or lack of it lol)

[Mr.Brightside]

as in just boltons and tune?

k24 will have similar peak power as k20, though it (2lt) wont have anywhere near as much grunt from 1000-6000 rpm


k24 is pretty much better in every way

chuck on 50vtc and tsx intake came, k20 oil pump and you'll have a ripper of an engine

plus.... your going from a 150kw b20, doubt you'd be all that impressed with a k20.
Even the standard IM and TB (budget setups) which will make somewhere around 135kwatw such as the old brown BYP DC2 daily (~130atw), i prefer over a k20a with a higher peak power, due to the low end.

As Jarrod said, RBC, 70mm TB, 50 deg VTC and k20 oil pump, and you will have one serious street car. :)

[fatboyz39]

Tru..

Prob is that the engineers also go by the engine displacement output power vs total brake power (safety) and emission testing.

So thw bigger the engine cc means the better the brakes should be.

Too much hassle.

But will a k20z shit on k24 both standard form in an ek/em?

Btw cant wait to see ur dc2 finished @ BYP workshop..

How are brakes effected since the test are at stopping the car 80km/hr? K-series engine isn't much heavier then a B series setup. Emission test should be ok since the K series engines are alot younger esp K24 which are 06/07.

K24 great for daily duties unless your planning to rev the guts out of a k20 everyday to get it anywhere.

[IV73CI]

Only reason y im leaning towards the k20;

1) redlines longer
2) better matched for my long term plan going the snail route.
3) if ever the k20 block blows, i would then frank it to the k24.. (if i decide to stay the NA route).
4) vtec sounds louder :p

[IV73CI]

Ok after so many chats and home work.. Ive leaned towards a k24 ftw!

[u mad?]

nice!

[IV73CI]

So im hoping to get 150fwkw ... Well i hope so with the below supporting parts;

PRB IM port matched 70mm TB
50Deg VTC
650cc injectors
Works engineering fuel rail
Ktuned 4-2-1 headers
2.5inch zorst
Lightened flywheel
Tuned KPro on E85
Custom CAI

U reckon its achievable??

Wot are the figures ppl nowadays achieving on stock k24?

[u mad?]

replace prb with rbc (or rrc if you got money to throw around)
replace 2.5" with 3"


easy 150kw, probably more.
mat it to an ep3r/dc5r gb and you'd be laughing.

[IV73CI]

replace prb with rbc (or rrc if you got money to throw around)
replace 2.5" with 3"


easy 150kw, probably more.
mat it to an ep3r/dc5r gb and you'd be laughing.

Tru bro.. But cant afford no more mula for the rbc or rrc :(

Ill be using 5sp gb.. Instead of the 6spd

And 3inch zorst would be at a later track when i decide to boost her.. Lol

[Mr.Brightside]

Expect around 140-145 with those bolt ons.

[Chr1s]

What is all this CRAP about it's hard to engineer a K24? (or K series in general for you civics)

Have any of you actually tried and been down the path or even bothered to download the light vehicles regulations and read what's required?

I got my car engineered with absolutely NO problems. The engineers actually like the K swapped Hondas for their simplicity and design philosophy (good engine, good gearbox, good brakes, good chassis) - I have not seen one owner with a K series try to engineer the car with sub standard brakes, and if you do, you deserved to get reemed for being a tool. Fact is, all OEM brakes with a good setup will pass you engineering. Just make sure you have tyres that actually grip...

Regarding EPA - again... easy as shit. Make sure that airbox is closed, the fuel tank isn't venting to atmosphere, the rocker cover breather is plumbed accordingly and there is no reason for them to deny you. I have the EM240 drive cycle data logged in K-pro with me and I passed easily with a tune that was too rich. The guys are good.. they want to pass you, if you fail, it's no big drama, you just come back the next week. They were kind enough to let me sit in the car with the laptop and tune as they ran the test.. which is all over in a matter of minutes.

So for those, who are interstate or those who have absolutely no idea on the process, please.. do the community a favour and keep your weightless comments to yourself. I once upon a time believed all the crap about how hard it is to engineer a car, until I tried to do it...Stick to ADR/ASNZ standards and there is no reason you won't pass.

PS - All engineering signatories have been canned as of late, there are new regulations and signatories to be announced soon. (I haven't looked into it since, but this was the last I heard as of last month)

[Chr1s]

Here we go again...




1) they knew the amount of work, money involved for the conversion and the first thing that came into their head was the unlimited amount of $$$ they can charge for their services. (ridiculous amount on 1 engineer was charging) Rta have no control on what these engineers charge as it is entirely up to them.



Does this surprise you? What did you expect engineering to cost? $150 like your headgasket? By the engineering signing off the car he is essentially putting himself liable for your modifications, if you have an accident due to a failure of a component and that component was not ADR approved (can be engineered at the engineers discretion) well he gets done for it....hence the massive amount of money expected for you to pay.


2) one engineer said, if u fail a category, fix it then Come back and it will be another charge. I was like wtf??

Yes... does this surprise you again? It's their TIME... which normal person works for free in this world?



3) one engineer even said "once u have an exhaust, air filter automatically that fails your emission gases - no exception. So i said even detuning the ecu?? And he said yes which will make your car run very lean and yet still will fail. Put the stock zorst, filter setup then you should be sweet.. So i said fair enough.

^ lol - please....did you call your friend down the street? If an engineer thinks "detune = lean" they don't deserve their signatory license (which is now invalid anyway). It's also offensive, or maybe you're that obtuse to understand that you completely disregarded my previous EPA comment where I had my car on the Botany EPA rolling road which is known as the worse station to get tested at (where that logic comes from I don't know..) I had a 3" exhaust, high flow cat, non standard intake and managed to pass with ease.




Ive spent hours on the phone and in person with these engineers and pretty much turned me off from conversions originally...

LOL this one makes me laugh the most... you spent hours on the phone with an engineer who should be charging ~$150/hr for their time? LOL.



But ever since operation Kilowats is inplace, theyve decided this is our time to shine and make money from these car enthusiast.

Take the immaturity off this board, this is for blatant illegal cars. If you have complied to the rules there is no reason for you to be done.


Do me a favour and post up the 3 engineers you have been talking with, if I recognise the name, I will call them and speak with them to see why they refuse. I dealt with 2 engineers, chose one for reasons that the first guy was just too busy and I wrote my own report for the car to be signed off, I have a fair idea of what needs to be legal and what doesn't so I find this rather idiotic that you can't find someone to engineer your car without a hassle. Everyone in this industry knows the Hondas are a good car to engineer.

[Chr1s]

Honestly, we should start a new thread.

I still don't understand where half your comments are coming from?

Regarding your friends who keep getting knocked back by the EPA, who the hell tuned their car? There is no need for two cats.. half the problem is getting heat into the cat and if you're using the right one, tell them to look into CAT placement rather than jamming two together.. I can have four cats and still not work as good as one.

De-tuning the ECU will not pass you EPA....... you need to tune the car, and no, a lean tune will not pass you EPA either. Lean tunes = high levels of NOx.

If you need a hand with setting your car up for engineering, PM me...

^ oh but... I just realised you don't give a **** what I know, so stick to your ignorance and get reemed by the cops, idiot.

The future of this country is ****ed...

[u mad?]

Chris is trying to help you op.

[IV73CI]

Chris is trying to help you op.

OP was about cooling issues not engineering a car.

But it did went astray from the OP and ended up on a off a OP topic.. Lol

[GSi_PSi]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpf836CatD1qzugii.jpg

[u mad?]

LOL are you threatening him.

[YeahByuddy]

http://i.imgur.com/NsJee.jpg

y u idiot fight on internet

[Chr1s]

^ LOL ! The keyboard warrior is out.

I don't see how "Now that you have started it - IDGAF of what you know nor what you have experienced. as i said your lucky to get away with it. +1 rep for that" is in any manner "supportive" - that is blatant ignorance...

As Umad says, I came here to HELP you, but you obviously don't care what I have to say, or the rest of the board?

Also I might add, as an Engineer myself, guess what - seems that you just had another salty beginning. YOU must be the problem.

Now if you wake up to yourself and apologise for your offensive/childish comments, I'd appreciate it.

If you're wondering why I'm so defensive.. I know what half these engineers had to go through to get that piece of paper to let them be signatories for modified vehicles, it's not easy and we don't do things because we FEEL like it.

[IV73CI]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpf836CatD1qzugii.jpg

Lol lovin it!

[Lukezen27]

now now girls

But man Engineering is not as simple as people think!

I've been through Engineering twice and emissions testing 7 times and only passed once hahah

Simple guide to passing after all I've dealt with

For emission (free just need to book)
Run stock ECU for the motor you'll installed (no tune)
Run stock cat and exhaust
Run stock 02 sensor
Run E85

I've tried the retune, detune route without luck!

Engineering ($800 to $1200)
Main thing is good brake upgrade
keep the rest of the car stock IMO including real air box and not stupid pod

Most peole do it wrong by moding the hell of their car and power tuning the new motor coze they can't wait :(

[Chr1s]

I'm still struggling...

A "power tune" shouldn't affect your emissions testing result as the driver is never really 100% throttle and high enough RPMs (for us to even get into vtec too), even if the tuner has opted for max power at cruising conditions, the fuelling won't be anywhere near ~12.8:1. (assuming peak energy mixture for gasoline)

What were the reasons for being knocked back with cat/exhaust, etc etc?

[IV73CI]

now now girls

But man Engineering is not as simple as people think!

I've been through Engineering twice and emissions testing 7 times and only passed once hahah

Simple guide to passing after all I've dealt with

For emission (free just need to book)
Run stock ECU for the motor you'll installed (no tune)
Run stock cat and exhaust
Run stock 02 sensor
Run E85

I've tried the retune, detune route without luck!

Engineering ($800 to $1200)
Main thing is good brake upgrade
keep the rest of the car stock IMO including real air box and not stupid pod

Most peole do it wrong by moding the hell of their car and power tuning the new motor coze they can't wait :(

now thats exactly the answer i wanted.

so your saying running a base map with supporting stock parts installed - then it shouldnt be an issue.

excellent to ALL who shared their experiences.:thumbsup:

-1 except for those who posted trolling pics rather than helpful info .. LOL :p

[Lukezen27]

I'm still struggling...

A "power tune" shouldn't affect your emissions testing result as the driver is never really 100% throttle and high enough RPMs (for us to even get into vtec too), even if the tuner has opted for max power at cruising conditions, the fuelling won't be anywhere near ~12.8:1. (assuming peak energy mixture for gasoline)

What were the reasons for being knocked back with cat/exhaust, etc etc?

Anyways emissions :(

so many fails

Mostly they said cat/exhaust would be the likely reason or cheap 02 sensor


now thats exactly the answer i wanted.

so your saying running a base map with supporting stock parts installed - then it shouldnt be an issue.

excellent to ALL who shared their experiences.:thumbsup:

-1 except for those who posted trolling pics rather than helpful info .. LOL :p

Correct but stock cat/exhaust and 02 sensor is a must

[Chr1s]

I bet you that if you turn up there with aftermarket exhaust, intake and the stock ecu, you will fail.

IVTECI - You're obviously best mates with BYP, why don't you get them to tune the car before you go to EPA? simple!

[Lukezen27]

I bet you that if you turn up there with aftermarket exhaust, intake and the stock ecu, you will fail.

IVTECI - You're obviously best mates with BYP, why don't you get them to tune the car before you go to EPA? simple!

Yup

you need max cat flash with the added displacement to pass emissons and nothings better than OEM

Mine was added power being turbo but its the same thing

[IV73CI]

I bet you that if you turn up there with aftermarket exhaust, intake and the stock ecu, you will fail.

IVTECI - You're obviously best mates with BYP, why don't you get them to tune the car before you go to EPA? simple!

Thats what i was thinking. Put base tune and see what the emission gasses puts out. Then if all passed, then power tune as planned.

Should still work with all the mods n crap on?

[IV73CI]

Yup

you need max cat flash with the added displacement to pass emissons and nothings better than OEM

Mine was added power being turbo but its the same thing

Max cat flash?? Wtf is dat?? Lol

U mean a higher CEL rating cat?

[Lukezen27]

Max cat flash?? Wtf is dat?? Lol

U mean a higher CEL rating cat?

means the cat getts hot enough to burn off the extra crap!

most aftermarked high flow units don't accomplish this

[IV73CI]

So how does one get or achieve this max cat flash??

Sorry noob to the above

[Lukezen27]

So how does one get or achieve this max cat flash??

Sorry noob to the above

its the quality of the OEM units and the size also makes a difference

hence why I said to use stock cat and exhaust

[IV73CI]

its the quality of the OEM units and the size also makes a difference

hence why I said to use stock cat and exhaust

Farkk..

Dun have any of those.. Oh wells see how it goes

[EG5]

No replacement for displacement

[Chr1s]

Tune the car at 14.7:1 or slightly leaner to get as much heat into the cat, but if you don't heat it up enough and you run that mixture you might fail based on NOx readings.

Cat placement plays a big part, with our K series headers it's hard to get a good cat placement, but try get it as close to the engine as possible...

[carlosshane1477]

a bad radiator cap will cause one to do this,it allows too much of he coolant complete by the cap,and works the over circulation jug over on it,id change that first,its also the most affordable,if that doesn't help it,check the temperature i it,this may be going bad,if that doesn't help it have a store look at it for you,the rad cap may fix this though and they only price a few dollars,at the toughest it probably could be would be a bad rad or a water push,good success with it. you can prevent it doing some pressure test. here are some guides lines on how to pressure test a radiator and cap (http://www.automd.com/112/how-to-pressure-test-a-radiator-and-cap/).

[IV73CI]

Thanks dude. But after 3 diff types of Rcaps, 2 working rads...all the tests were done and result = cracked sleeve.

Mods pls close this as the problem was found.

[aaronng]

Closed as requested