S2000 NA or SC??

[Newtype]

Hey guys

Ive been wondering for a while the pros and cons between keeping the
engine naturally aspirated or supercharging. Ive read heaps of information from
the internet but still cannot put the pieces together.

The most i know is that NA engines last longer, SC give you more power, torque, etc
but will wear out ur engine more and require a rebuild in the future.

Anyone with any information and knowledge please share it. Will be greatly appercaited =).

+ (pros)
- (cons)

[euromandeluxe]

This is a massively open question, search will give you the most answers.

Briefly:
SC Pros:
More power
Same linear powerband as NA (not massive torque increases), usually picks up noticeably at 5000rpm+
Stock engine can handle some of the SC kits fine (no need to rebuild)
More power
More power. Lol.

SC cons:
$
$
$
less reliability depending on how big the build gets.
theres bolt on kits out there but most will need some form of engine management to get the most gains. ie $. The build will cost you more than just the cost of the kit.
Should do brakes tyre and suspension mods to keep up with the power increase.

[stndrd]

If you are looking it supercharging, I would recommend thinking about twin scroll turbo set-ups.

+ Better fuel economy (at cruising speeds/rpm) than with a supercharger or even n/a
+ With correct turbo sizing, you can have full torque by 2000rpm all the way to 6k+ & massive top end HP

- Will require fuel system & ECU upgrade
- Initial outlay is a bit more than supercharging
- Recommend lowering compression ratio for reliability

Check out Full Race (http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo-kits/honda-s2000-prostreet-turbo-kit.html) for more details

[Chulos2k]

Full race kit will not work as it is not made for RHD. To the OP, there is a lot of info out there and like the guy above said, it is a massively open question, but to answer your question SC all the way!!

Pros: more power
Cons: addiction to boost :)

[Newtype]

so in terms of the engine lasting compared to NA, what would you guys say on average or scale how long does SC or even Turbo charged engine last? I know that SC or Turbo will decrease the lifespan of the engine but to what extent?

[stndrd]

It all comes down to how you drive it and how you prepare the motor. If it is a stock motor (stock internals, stock compression) with even small boost levels & thrash it all day everyday, it will not last very long. If you strip the motor down, install low comp forged pistons, rods, good bearings etc, get the head set up with correct cams and all the rest of it, built by a reputable engine builder, it should last a long time (provided maintenance is kept up)

[s2kjn]

Not just that but also the tuner. The number 1 thing when it comes to FI IMO.

Read what the boys on s2ki who actually have the FI setups have to say:

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/923461-stock-internals-how-much-power-can-they-hold/

Also, stock cams also seem to be the best to use over a/m.

I'd be more concerned with your drivetrain like diff upgrades or transmission in the near future, rather than ur stock engine.

Im planning on going turbo, will be getting all the bits n pieces throughout the year. And from what I've researched, so far IP's stage 2 kit and the Greddy kt (but who wants that), MASE (who is never contactable but sells one hell of a complete kit) are the RHD options out there. Aus2000 on this forum was lucky to get a lovefab kit, but after contacting the owner a few times, he doesn't seem to have a kit for RHD. I'm still to find out if full blown make a RHD kit, and if they do, I'll most prbably go with them.

[Chulos2k]

It all comes down to how you drive it and how you prepare the motor. If it is a stock motor (stock internals, stock compression) with even small boost levels & thrash it all day everyday, it will not last very long. If you strip the motor down, install low comp forged pistons, rods, good bearings etc, get the head set up with correct cams and all the rest of it, built by a reputable engine builder, it should last a long time (provided maintenance is kept up)

curious to know what you mean by not very long with stock internals / stock compression?

I agree with it comes down to how you drive it and how well you maintain it but there are many examples out there of guys running boost on stock motors reliably for an extended period of time.

[stndrd]

From past experiences boosting na cars (mostly na silvia's and skylines), the owners of these vehicles get to a point where they think they can handle the power and either, start driving alot harder (constantly putting the engine on the limiter) or they think "wth, lets up the boost".

Yes a good tuner can over come a fair bit of the difficulties a high compression f/i engine present, but at the end of the day the owner is the weak link. Alot of these guys you have seen running long term f/i cars drive them like you would drive a toyota yaris, from a-b, not flat out everywhere you go. If you are going to go f/i, do it once and do it properly

[ludecrs]

^ Unfortunately doing it once doing it right will cost you the better half of $12k.

[s2kjn]

Yep definitely not cheap, but I would hate to mess around and not be prepared for the worse!

[stndrd]

I am in the middle of corresponding with Full Race at the moment in regards to compatibility of their Pro Street kit with RHD drive cars and they have advised me that their Pro Street kit will fit on RHD models and clear brake master cylinder & booster. Their Forward Facing Twin Scroll Kit will most likely not suit RHD vehicles due to front pipe diameters & the direction you have to run it

[s2kjn]

It's funny how this thread started this week. Just over last weekend to today, I've seen 3 different turbo s2k's and boy do they sound sexy!

[Mr.Brightside]

Rotrex supercharge it. A c38-91 charger on a standard f20c would make around 400-450hp with E85.

[Chulos2k]

I am in the middle of corresponding with Full Race at the moment in regards to compatibility of their Pro Street kit with RHD drive cars and they have advised me that their Pro Street kit will fit on RHD models and clear brake master cylinder & booster. Their Forward Facing Twin Scroll Kit will most likely not suit RHD vehicles due to front pipe diameters & the direction you have to run it

That's great news.. if only I had that option when I was looking at FI :(

[stndrd]

Ok just to update:

I have been corresponding with Full Race all this week as I mentioned earlier, and advised that their Pro Street kit will suit RHD models. They have now gotten back to me (very apologetically as well) saying that this is incorrect and that only their Forward Facing Twin Scroll Kit will suit RHD models, tho you have to get imaginative with dump pipe design.

Full Race have recommend for making between 300 - 450whp (225 - 335rwkw) to use a Garret GT3076R 1.06 a/r twin scroll (T4 flange) and twin 38mm wastegates. I have then gone and spoken to GCG Turbo's and they have said that there is a GTX version (http://gcg.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=212&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1276&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=101) which is a high flowed version that will spool slightly quicker & hold higher top end boost than your normal GT3076R

[tamay_s2k]

Ok just to update:
Full Race have recommend for making between 300 - 450whp (225 - 335rwkw) to use a Garret GT3076R 1.06 a/r twin scroll (T4 flange) and twin 38mm wastegates. I have then gone and spoken to GCG Turbo's and they have said that there is a GTX version (http://gcg.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=212&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1276&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=101) which is a high flowed version that will spool slightly quicker & hold higher top end boost than your normal GT3076R

haha thats my plans for the end of this year =D...the gtx series are debatable. 'apparently' some say that there not as good as everyone thinks and interms of money vs performance increase the extra $800 price tag for this turbo isnt really worth it

[stndrd]

I am able to supply the GTX3076R for near identical price as a GT3076R

[Gizdawg]

I was looking at SC'ing for awhile OP.

ATM running an injen intake, SOS TB, Berk header, Berk 70MM HFC and a T1R sparrow exhaust and have some BC Stage 2 cams I'm deciding if I'm going to put in. Eventually the price of it all started catching up with me, spent about 4k on everything so far, a full SC kit + install and looking at another 10 or so. And with the more mods I'm adding to it, fuel economy is starting to go to crap. If you want a boosted car, go get a Focus RS or an STI or something. S2000's are a brilliant car stock.

My 2 cents.

[dlai5552]

^ You're still deciding to put in a supercharger and by the sound of it, you're leaning more towards buying one. But you are telling him to get another car instead if he wants boost? I don't understand :S

[Gizdawg]

^ You're still deciding to put in a supercharger and by the sound of it, you're leaning more towards buying one. But you are telling him to get another car instead if he wants boost? I don't understand :S

Sorry, I didn't mean to be misleading. I WAS going to SC it, however once I started looking into the prices of this, and finding a trustworthy mechanic, I decided it wasn't worth it. I'll be staying NA and selling my S soon and going with a car that was designed to be boosted, XR5's, RS, WRX's etc.

OT. Stay N/A OP.

[manonastick]

curious question
I don't think it common but would k24 engine swap in a s2k be better value than using the f20c plus +FI?
Im sure the k20a head and k24 block has more potential than the f20c
imagine the torque

[Chulos2k]

k24 is a great engine but seriously guys an f20c boosted with a good setup should make 300rkw no problem and rip all day everyday.. We might not have that many examples here in Oz but the guys in the US have been doing it for years..

I say boost it and clear up the many misconceptions that people on this board seem to have about FI :)

[AusS2000]

I'm boosted and I'm happy. Nuf said.

[Newtype]

k24 is a great engine but seriously guys an f20c boosted with a good setup should make 300rkw no problem and rip all day everyday.. We might not have that many examples here in Oz but the guys in the US have been doing it for years..

I say boost it and clear up the many misconceptions that people on this board seem to have about FI :)


I'm boosted and I'm happy. Nuf said.

Enough Said =)

[Chulos2k]

I'm boosted and I'm happy. Nuf said.

:thumbsup: Exactly!!

[vyets]

I'm NA and I'm happy, each to their own LOL

However I would rather go turbo then sc if you want powarr!!

I chose a different option and bought another turbo car instead of boosting my s2k lol

[Newtype]

mmm i guess it all comes down to what you want the power for..
for the street user i guess supercharging or turboing would be a waste, should track or sometihng to truely show off that power.

[fatboyz39]

If you do decide to boost look into the rotrex superchargers :)

[AusS2000]

for the street user i guess supercharging or turboing would be a waste

Yup, I waste a lot of cars with my turbo S2000.

[Vicks]

HAHAHAHAHA!

To add to that, I don't see how it's "a waste".

[Newtype]

HAHAHAHAHA!

To add to that, I don't see how it's "a waste".

i meant that you dont get to use the full potential of a turbo or supercharge on the streets unless you wanna initial d or fast and the furious or something :P
i was thinking supercharging would be more worth it if you wanted to track with it and show the cars true power.

[AusS2000]

Would I be correct in assuming you have never driven a boosted S2000?

[Newtype]

Would I be correct in assuming you have never driven a boosted S2000?

your assumption is correct ^^, i hear people after they SC they can never look back to NA lol

[AusS2000]

I SC'd my S and couldn't look back. So I looked forward and turbo'd it.

[EKVTIR-T]

and ran low 14s

[greek_rambos2k]

so what would it cost in the end to supercharge? im looking to either do ITB or supercharge but im thinking SC is better. can anyone tell me a rough cost for the entire procedure? parts/tuning labor?

[AusS2000]

It doesn't really have a ceiling. Your kit might cost between $2000 and $5000. Install could cost you about a grand down to $0 if you do it yourself. Allow a grand for tuning. And then there's little accessories like clutches and other gubbins.

[greek_rambos2k]

hmm well im guna start collecting the parts as i go along. I assume the first thing apart from the kit is an ECU. but which is better for an SC? Hondata, motec, aem? or are they all the same in the end?

[stndrd]

I would personally recommend a Haltech

[curtis265]

I SC'd my S and couldn't look back. So I looked forward and turbo'd it.

ballerspec

[FAITHLESS]

it depends on how you drive and what you want from your car.
if you want throttle response and an NA feel go with a roots blower. downside being loss of the well tuned intake manifold supplied by honda, parasitic loss and a small power gain in comparison to the following FI methods.
if you want a smooth power curve with alot of high end power go centrifugal sc. downside is power gains rise with engine speed and parasitic loss.
if you want alot of power go turbo. downside obviously lag.
as long as you run appropriate boost for the setup you have, and minimise the chance of detonation by cooling the intake air and using high octane fuel, there should be no worries with reliability.
and the tune is the most important part as many have already stated.

btw i haven't looked into roots blowers for the f20c so it might not be a feasible option.

[ludecrs]

^ There isn't one in production. But one does exist.

[AusS2000]

I was going to say that post sounds like someone who knows FI in general but has little experience with FI and the S2000.

Fact is, the more shortcuts you take with a turbo the more lag you'll have. And the opposite is true too. Well sized, BB turbo on a nice manifold and you'll make all the power you could ever want with no noticeable lag.