[CL9] Another suspension related question

[jordiiisme]

Hey guys, i've been thinking about lowering my Euro for quite some time now. I've read many threads about lowering the euro and have come to the conclusion that a spring + shock combo will be right for my needs.
I'm definitely looking to get the Eibach Pro for the springs and am tossing up between the Koni's or Bilstein Shocks. I've read that Bilstein seems to be a better choice for the Euro however,

1. I looked at heeltoeauto.com and the Eibach + Koni is around $1100 USD shipped. (Roughly $1050 AUD).
edit: shox.com - $920 AUD shipped

2. I emailed eibach au and they said that their B12 Pro Kit (which i believe is the Eibach Pro springs + Bilstein Shocks?) is $1320AUD (not sure about shipping yet).

The fact that the B12 pro kit is supplied in Australia makes warranty issues much easier which makes me lean towards them but is the $300 difference worth it? and if anyone knows any places i could get these products cheaper, please let me know.

Also, is a camber kit necessary if i were to lower the car with the Eibachs?

Thanks.

[marquee]

you can get koni eibach combo from shox.com for 900 or so including shipping man. i see what you mean about warranty thats why i went with coilovers. In australia you can get bc coilovers cheaper then spring shock.

The reason i choose coilovers is i kept seeing pictures of positive rake which annoyed the hell out of me so i got coilovers so i could adjust it.

[jordiiisme]

I just checked show.com the koni + eibach combo is $750ish but when i go into the shipping costs they use UPS and costs around $600 making it $1300+ all up. May i know how you got the $900 or so mark?
I first wanted to get coilovers, buddy club n+ to be exact but i kept reading about how it is illegal to have adjustable suspension/coilovers? I know cops probably wouldn't even be bothered to check what kind of suspension you have anyways but i guess i'd rather go the safe route and go for spring + shocks but thanks for the info.
How are the BC coilovers anyways?

[tonysalib]

The reason i choose coilovers is i kept seeing pictures of positive rake which annoyed the hell out of me so i got coilovers so i could adjust it.

Aren't the koni yellow shocks height adjustable?

[jordiiisme]

Yeah, pretty sure they are which makes me lean towards those too D=. Anyone know where to get koni shocks from in Sydney and roughly how much they are? thanks.

[marquee]

600 for shipping? No chance man its more like 250

[jordiiisme]

yeah, $600 is absurd but i cant get any other options. ill try emailing them and see if i can get a cheaper option.

edit: i emailed for a quote and dhl shipping is $239 so yeah all up around $900aud? Damn, that sounds so appealing haha.

[marquee]

See what i mean for 900 you get awesome shocks and awesome struts

[ryaan]

man wheres this show.com thing.. cus im interested as well ! :D

edit.. dw i realised it was shox.com sorry guys

[tonysalib]

man wheres this show.com thing.. cus im interested as well ! :D

It's actually shox.com :)

[Fredoops]

JDMyard has Form over function coilovers.

[ryaan]

damn.. i gotta say that is pretty cheap for a full shock and spring combo .. 900 delivered..

not intentionally to steal the thread but is there any issues in getting shocks/springs from lhd countries? cus i realised they front left and front right shocks have different part numbers. any experiences? im concerned as in the left may be lower than the right etc etc

[marquee]

Nah they are the same part numbers for Australia too

[dee-y]

To OP:
I'm currently using the Eibach Koni yellow setup you are contemplating on getting, and thoroughly recommend it. Dunno what's going on with the exxy shipping, but it is definitely available for 900 shipped from Shox, as a mate got it not too long ago. Though I did contemplate coilovers (mainly for the ease of adjusting the height), I went with a shock and spring combo that was proven and of great quality. Damper adjustability is great and dead easy but full soft is waaaaay toooo sofft, I've basically got mine on full hard setup front and back. If your just using for daily drives on the roads, then it's all you need.

Hope that helps somewhat

[tonysalib]

To OP:
I'm currently using the Eibach Koni yellow setup you are contemplating on getting, and thoroughly recommend it. Dunno what's going on with the exxy shipping, but it is definitely available for 900 shipped from Shox, as a mate got it not too long ago. Though I did contemplate coilovers (mainly for the ease of adjusting the height), I went with a shock and spring combo that was proven and of great quality. Damper adjustability is great and dead easy but full soft is waaaaay toooo sofft, I've basically got mine on full hard setup front and back. If your just using for daily drives on the roads, then it's all you need.

Hope that helps somewhat

So are you able to adjust the height at all with your current setup? I am currently running Tein S.Tech springs on stock shocks and I have a slight positive rake, would I be able to correct that if I get the Koni shocks?

Thanks.

[ryaan]

To OP:
I'm currently using the Eibach Koni yellow setup you are contemplating on getting, and thoroughly recommend it. Dunno what's going on with the exxy shipping, but it is definitely available for 900 shipped from Shox, as a mate got it not too long ago. Though I did contemplate coilovers (mainly for the ease of adjusting the height), I went with a shock and spring combo that was proven and of great quality. Damper adjustability is great and dead easy but full soft is waaaaay toooo sofft, I've basically got mine on full hard setup front and back. If your just using for daily drives on the roads, then it's all you need.

Hope that helps somewhat

did your mate install it himself? Or did he get a mechanic to do it? If sooo , how much?

Thanks

[white_ep3_civic]

You may need to get a rear camber kit depending how low the new setup makes it.

[tonysalib]

You may need to get a rear camber kit depending how low the new setup makes it.

Yeah camber is another discussion (I already need a camber kit with the current height). What I would like to know is if the Koni Yellow (Sports) shocks give you the ability to adjust height and if so how flexible is it (i.e. max and min heights).

[marquee]

It has perches which means you can lower it but due to the rake i think consensus is your rear is on lowest perch your front on lowest perch to give minimal rake

[ryaan]

there is height adjustment but its not much, i was reading on another forum and it said It can go up and down about 20mm (about .8").


http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-gen-suspension/37935-tsxs-koni-yellow-adjustible-non-adjustible.html

[dee-y]

Yes they are height adjustable.

I got a suspension shop to install mine, as it is something I have no expertise in mechanically, and wasn't feeling confident to do a DIY job. cost about 350 including a full wheel alignment.

[jordiiisme]

definetly leaning towards the koni and eibach springs from show.com now. Currently overseas so still have some thinking time. Will most likely decide when i get back to Australia. Thanks to everyone for the helpful info =)

[tonysalib]

Yeah I am considering getting the Koni shocks too to couple with the Tein S.Tech springs i currently have. HeeltoeAuto has them for $750 landed which is not bad i reckon. Good luck and post pics once you get'em :)

[ryaan]

so hows you get 750 landed? i did it and it turned out more expensive than shox..com landed. so tempted if its cheaper !

[marquee]

Id prefer eibsch then then but he probably used the discount code TSXROCKS

[tonysalib]

so hows you get 750 landed? i did it and it turned out more expensive than shox..com landed. so tempted if its cheaper !

I'm talking about the shocks only though, not shocks and spring combo. Are you sure that's what you selected?

See this link (http://www.heeltoeauto.com/acura-tsx-2003-2008-cl9-suspension-shocks/), they list the front and rears separately and they're $295 each so all up $590 plus about $167 for shipping (slowest option) to Sydney comes to $757 :)

[tonysalib]

Id prefer eibsch then then but he probably used the discount code TSXROCKS

No I didn't actually. But thanks for that code, it gave a $20 discount so now it's $737 landed

[ryaan]

Ah yesss my bad! I misread your post ..I thought you were talking about a combo zzzz.. Full got excited for a second

[jordiiisme]

update guys: shox sent my springs + shocks on the 18th and it arrived yesterday and getting them installed today =). All up it was $920 AUD sent to my door

[tony1234]

update guys: shox sent my springs + shocks on the 18th and it arrived yesterday and getting them installed today =). All up it was $920 AUD sent to my door
Nice.what combo did you get?

[jordiiisme]

ended up going with the koni yellow sports + eibach springs

[Fredoops]

hmmm..... how sure if yall aware of this but... Koni shocks can already lower the car by 0.75 inches (20mm)
So.... those if you who have 1.5inch lowering springs are effectively dropping the car by 2.25 inches.... not 1.5.....

PS... why dont yall just get Coilovers for like... 100-200 dollars more.

[jordiiisme]

Oh crap, really? I thought with the koni shocks give you the choice to lower it another 20mm but you didn't have to. Can you confirm this?

[Fredoops]

Oh crap, really? I thought with the koni shocks give you the choice to lower it another 20mm but you didn't have to. Can you confirm this?

Its adjustable, but I think when you open the package it's set to it's lowest setting.

[jordiiisme]

Oh alright, well im getting it installed by a professional mechanic (went to Top One) and i let him know i only wanted the drop from the springs so i hope he does it correctly. Thanks for the info though, scared me for a bit =P.

[Fredoops]

Oh alright, well im getting it installed by a professional mechanic (went to Top One) and i let him know i only wanted the drop from the springs so i hope he does it correctly. Thanks for the info though, scared me for a bit =P.

lol

Im looking for a 1 inch drop... its kinda hard to find stuff for that at a decent price lol

[jordiiisme]

Yeah thats true, ever thought of tein h springs? its F -1.1" R -.7" though.

[Fredoops]

Yeah thats true, ever thought of tein h springs? its F -1.1" R -.7" though.

They are softer than OEM I remembered. so no... hell no.

[jordiiisme]

ooh fair enough

[Fredoops]

ooh fair enough
Fk it, gonna save for coilovers

[senna]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but Tein Street basis might be worth a look, $1450 delivered to you, height adjustable, but no rate adjust.

Shoot me a PM if you would like some options Fredoops! :thumbsup:

[jordiiisme]

Fk it, gonna save for coilovers

haha, good luck! :)

[tony1234]

Oh alright, well im getting it installed by a professional mechanic (went to Top One) and i let him know i only wanted the drop from the springs so i hope he does it correctly. Thanks for the info though, scared me for a bit =P.

Good spring/shock combo and good installer.You'll be right.BTW you'll most likely need a rear camber kit.

[jordiiisme]

Yep, great installer, just got the car back. Do you think a rear camber kit is a must? Is it ok if i just get a good proper alignment done for now?

[marquee]

Depends how much camper you can get back in to it. If you can get within range just leave it.

[jordiiisme]

Ah alright, what would be within range?. thanks.

Also, anyone recommend a good place to do wheel alignment, located in St George area. Thanks

[tony1234]

Ah alright, what would be within range?. thanks.

Also, anyone recommend a good place to do wheel alignment, located in St George area. Thanks
Tubbys Tyres.But they're in Kirrawee.These guys are really good.$70 for 4 wheel alignment.

[jordiiisme]

might go get my alignment done there tomorrow then, thanks!
should i be asking them to do anything specific with the toe, camber or what not?

[marquee]

As close to 0 as possible for camber and 0° for toe.

For daily driving toe is more important and make sure you get a print out.

[jordiiisme]

alright, thanks!

[jordiiisme]

I just got my wheel alignment done at tubby tyres and i'm a complete noob so i'm not really sure how to read the results on the print out. Mind you i forgot to tell them to set the toe to 0degrees and let them do what they thought was best, i don't know if that was a bad idea or not but it seems as though the front toe has been adjusted a lot. Most of the other results seem similar, rear axle toe seems to be adjusted a bit but it isn't close to 0 degrees. My question is, are these results bad? Or will they suffice a daily driven car? Sorry for the noobness and thanks for everyones help.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/img2959d.jpg/

[senna]

Seems fine, the front caster has a higher angle on the drivers side which would make your car go left, this is probably why they have given you toe in on the left and a small amount of toe out on the right. The total is fine for stable driving with tyre wear in mind. Off-set caster bushes will help correct this and allow a more accurate alignment.

The rear has a similar situation - since there is basically no camber adjustment on the Euro standard they have give you 2mm toe in in order to try and offset the tyre wear you will get with -2.5 camber. If you look into an adjustable rear camber kit the camber can be corrected and you can run less toe in which will provide a more neutral handling result.

Hope this helps! Tubby's seems like they have a good aligner!

[tony1234]

I just got my wheel alignment done at tubby tyres and i'm a complete noob so i'm not really sure how to read the results on the print out. Mind you i forgot to tell them to set the toe to 0degrees and let them do what they thought was best, i don't know if that was a bad idea or not but it seems as though the front toe has been adjusted a lot. Most of the other results seem similar, rear axle toe seems to be adjusted a bit but it isn't close to 0 degrees. My question is, are these results bad? Or will they suffice a daily driven car? Sorry for the noobness and thanks for everyones help.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/img2959d.jpg/

So you happy with the wheel alignment?I think they're good.Good to see Senna agrees as he seems to be a suspension expert.BTW get a rear camber kit,it's worth it.

[jordiiisme]

Yep, very happy. Ill definetly look into getting a rear camber kit in the near future, gotta save some up first :). Any idea on the cost to install it?

[jordiiisme]

sorry to double post, on iphone atm. Ive noticed that the rear left wheel gap is about a tight 2 finger gap and the rear right wheel gap is about a loose 2 finger gap, can get a tight 3 finger gap if tried. Im pretty sure that this wasn't the case before the wheel alignment, is this normal? It doesnt really bother me that much but would like to see if the alignmen had anything to do with it. thanks!

[aaronng]

sorry to double post, on iphone atm. Ive noticed that the rear left wheel gap is about a tight 2 finger gap and the rear right wheel gap is about a loose 2 finger gap, can get a tight 3 finger gap if tried. Im pretty sure that this wasn't the case before the wheel alignment, is this normal? It doesnt really bother me that much but would like to see if the alignmen had anything to do with it. thanks!
A wheel alignment doesn't cause this. The difference comes from the design to balance the corner weights of the Euro.

What will shit you more is that the front driver's side is 1 cm lower than the front passenger's side! Oops, shouldn't have told you that. :) It is to compensate for the heavier front driver's side due to the driver.

[senna]

Alignment can cause a different gap - the passenger side has -0.5 less camber than the passenger side so the tyre is more straight up than the other side. You are right with the corner weight though - basically every car has different measurements l/r, f/r.

The difference in front height should be that the drivers side is higher than the passenger side to compensate for the driver when they are in the car, if the passenger side is higher than the drivers side then you should be annoyed!

[jordiiisme]

oh wow never knew that. well as long as it is normal like that then im not bothered. thanks a lot for the help.

[Fredoops]

Actually y'all can help me out here... This is going to be tricky.

Look, the car is stock height ATM. And I'm looking to order a set of new rims, Sparco Assetto Gara's in bronze to be exact.
Obviously the gap neeeds to be reduced a bit.

However.
I've got a farking cusco type 2 lower strut bar. So my car al already 1 inch approx closer to the ground than the rest of youse... Stock

So if I get a coilover that drops 1.5 inches +.... I will bottom out and cause damage... Not to mention defects.
Im thinking the max I can drop is .75 inches there about (because then I'll still be 1.75 inches closer to the ground. Fml

I'm not going to track the car and it's already scraping every day, so I think need a firmer suspension or something to counter the scraping...

Or is the existing scraping caused by deterioated OEM shocks (cars on 130k km)???

[marquee]

Nat my shocks had nearly 190 when changed.

Bit it also depends how you drive over bumps i had my catback which was about 12cm off the ground at stock height.

Firmer suspension will help but it just depends on what is scraping if its scraping on everything no matter how fast or slow you go when firmness may not help.

Just get coils my coils could actually go to stock height lol so you can fine tune between low enough and no scraping.

[aaronng]

Alignment can cause a different gap - the passenger side has -0.5 less camber than the passenger side so the tyre is more straight up than the other side. You are right with the corner weight though - basically every car has different measurements l/r, f/r.
In his case, the rear right has 0.5 more negative camber, yet his rear right is the one that is higher. That's why I believe it is more on corner balancing as the wheel that is more tilted from camber should end up being slightly lower.

The difference in front height should be that the drivers side is higher than the passenger side to compensate for the driver when they are in the car, if the passenger side is higher than the drivers side then you should be annoyed![/QUOTE]
For corner balancing, the height setting is actually in reverse. The heavier corner is set to be lower so that when you place a balance scale under that corner, the suspension pushes down on that corner a bit less and hence reads a lower reading eventhough there is actually more weight on that corner.

[aaronng]

Actually y'all can help me out here... This is going to be tricky.

Look, the car is stock height ATM. And I'm looking to order a set of new rims, Sparco Assetto Gara's in bronze to be exact.
Obviously the gap neeeds to be reduced a bit.

However.
I've got a farking cusco type 2 lower strut bar. So my car al already 1 inch approx closer to the ground than the rest of youse... Stock

So if I get a coilover that drops 1.5 inches +.... I will bottom out and cause damage... Not to mention defects.
Im thinking the max I can drop is .75 inches there about (because then I'll still be 1.75 inches closer to the ground. Fml

I'm not going to track the car and it's already scraping every day, so I think need a firmer suspension or something to counter the scraping...

Or is the existing scraping caused by deterioated OEM shocks (cars on 130k km)???

The Cusco Type 2 bar scrapes even on stock suspension height. I have the Type 1 bar and scraped the hell out of it even when it was at stock height.

[senna]

In his case, the rear right has 0.5 more negative camber, yet his rear right is the one that is higher. That's why I believe it is more on corner balancing as the wheel that is more tilted from camber should end up being slightly lower.


The difference in front height should be that the drivers side is higher than the passenger side to compensate for the driver when they are in the car, if the passenger side is higher than the drivers side then you should be annoyed!
For corner balancing, the height setting is actually in reverse. The heavier corner is set to be lower so that when you place a balance scale under that corner, the suspension pushes down on that corner a bit less and hence reads a lower reading eventhough there is actually more weight on that corner.

I just re-read the original post about the height difference and he says his two fingers are looser on the drivers side - this would tell me that the neg camber on that side is greater meaning that the tyre is further away from the guard. SO the height is basically the same but the tyre is further away from the guard. Don't think height, just think clearance and the tyre moving in an arc.

I'm not sure you are getting the dynamics of the corner weighting though. No matter the height position the spring rate is the same. When you raise the drivers side it is to compensate for when the driver is sitting in the car - this increases the loaded weight of the suspension and lowers the ride height. The spring isn't varying, only the weight on that spring is changing.

Think of a see-saw with a tall weight sitting above the fulcrum point - if you lift one end of the see-saw a small amount it will start to move further than the initial movement because the weight and centre of gravity is moving away from the raised end and on to the lower end.

Move this onto corner weighting a car and you have a similar reaction - lower a corner and it brings the weight of the car towards that corner. Its easier to see on a car that has 50/50 weight distribution like a 350Z or even VE commodore - lower the rear only and the front ride height raises.

***Mods, if you would like to move this to another section i understand, we are a little off topic here***

[ryaan]

sorry to double post, on iphone atm. Ive noticed that the rear left wheel gap is about a tight 2 finger gap and the rear right wheel gap is about a loose 2 finger gap, can get a tight 3 finger gap if tried. Im pretty sure that this wasn't the case before the wheel alignment, is this normal? It doesnt really bother me that much but would like to see if the alignmen had anything to do with it. thanks!

sooo jordiiisme, you wna post a pic up of your car with the spring shock combo? :)