Pre-ignition/ Engine Knocking on Civic......Help!!!

[riftan]

I bought the car on september last year. And I have heard this knocking when the car only 3500kms old. I have been using Woolworths Caltex 98 Octane from new.

The knocking/ pre-ignition starts around 4500 - 5500. And always comes up if you try to floor the car all the way from 2250 to 6500 rpm. Never do that before it reaches 1000kms. First time I had that knocking when the car reaches 3500kms. Have tried my brother car which is pre-facelift but still the same engine. It also the same knocking. around the same rpm. I notice the problem tends to go away if I turn the aircon on.

Anybody has the same problem? Or anybody can give me solution please.......:(
I am just thinking could it be caused by spark plug which is used is too hot for Aust condition or the timing is too advanced. But either way I am not sure and just wondering if someone has tried to solve the problem. I live in Quakers Hill area and been using local Woolies. Some say Shell is better but uncle Robert from Hanny's performance suggest to use Caltex. I heard current Euro also has the same problem.

I have contacted Honda Australia and never get their reply since then. It appears they do not want to know about the problem. I am very very disappointed about this. My first Honda is first gen Jazz. Love it. This civic might change my view toward Honda in negative way. I probably will not buy Honda anymore.

[trism]

IF ITS BRAND NEW, WHY NOT TAKE IT BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP?

It will be under warranty still. Why would you try and contact Honda directly, thats just silly.

[riftan]

IF ITS BRAND NEW, WHY NOT TAKE IT BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP?

It will be under warranty still. Why would you try and contact Honda directly, thats just silly.

They have pointing it is the petrol quality. But I have changed gas station since then but the problem persist. I have read somewhere a lot people complaining about similar problem but I never read the solution for it. Last time I read people just left stranded by Honda. That is all. What I am afraid bringing the car to dealership will be waste of time which is the case of most people I read on the most forum.

[riftan]

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mechanical-problems-technical-chat/242214-rattling-pinging-noise.html

My problem is exactly like this guy. The pinging/ knocking/ preignition/ whatever you want to call it happen only on 2nd gear or 3rd if you floor the pedal from 2250 or 2500 all the way to 6500. More likely you will hear it when you drive without aircon on for about half an hour in traffic. Never happen in 1st gear.

[JPR28610]

have you taken it to the dealership yet? if its under warranty and up to date with the services they will fix it. thats why people buy cars brand new....

you shouldnt always go by what you read on the internet, and its either you risk wasting your time, or risk wasting your money.

hope it gets sorted out, and please update if/when you fix it !!

[JDM EP3]

IF your still having issues with this and the dealership doesnt fix it under warranty write them a letter and save a copy, if you have more issues contact the ombudsman, ACCC or fair trading (whatever is relevant to your state)

[jay2]

I've got the same issue as you except mine is on the Accord Euro.
Bought the car new late last year and thought this issue that plagued the 2nd gen Euro would have been rectified but NO!

Ping started after 1000Km servicing.
When back to dealer and test drove with senior mech. Acknowledge ping but advised to "accept it" as ECU reflash will make the car drive differently.

Put in the best RON98 fuel hopping it will go away. Has been 3 tanks already and ping is still there. Don't think it's cause by fuel quality.

Some said after the oil change at 10000 Km service, the ping goes away!

I think there is something wrong with Honda engine quality these days. Utterly disappointed with them. Honda Australia's attitude made it worse.

Will go back to dealer and demand fix if I can't take it anymore.

I feel for you. Let us know how you go.

[JPR28610]

yeah ive been hearing alot of bullshit about honda's service. and alot of problems with jazz's

Where is this PING coming from?

[riftan]

I've got the same issue as you except mine is on the Accord Euro.
Bought the car new late last year and thought this issue that plagued the 2nd gen Euro would have been rectified but NO!

Ping started after 1000Km servicing.
When back to dealer and test drove with senior mech. Acknowledge ping but advised to "accept it" as ECU reflash will make the car drive differently.

Put in the best RON98 fuel hopping it will go away. Has been 3 tanks already and ping is still there. Don't think it's cause by fuel quality.

Some said after the oil change at 10000 Km service, the ping goes away!

I think there is something wrong with Honda engine quality these days. Utterly disappointed with them. Honda Australia's attitude made it worse.

Will go back to dealer and demand fix if I can't take it anymore.

I feel for you. Let us know how you go.

I have brought the car to dealership once. I got recommendation from very reliable friend of mine to bring the car to Trivett Classic Honda Dealership not Larke Hoskin. As mentioned above, they agree there is ping or knocking or preignition noise on the engine at the RPM I pointed out. They agree that they hear it "vaguely". They said the quality of the fuel is to blame. And suggesting to use BP instead. That does not make sense because friend of mine working on Caltex and she assure me that for NSW we are getting all the petrol from Caltex. Since then I use only 1 station only. At the same time I sent an email to Honda Australia. and hear no response or feedback since then.

Using 1 gas station, it does help reduce the noise. But not completely disappear. I notice by turning on the aircon will help reducing it even more. That's why I suspect the cooling of the engine or the spark plug heat range. One of them. I have read many people complaint about the same thing but Honda never find the real solution to it.

I am afraid bringing the car to dealership will just be a waste of time or even messing my car even more. That happen to my brand new toyota before. Toyota lander blacktown ruined by aircon.

I am thinking to bring the car to dealership once more and insist them to fix the problem.

In the past, my 1.5 echo has similar problem, but the problem is gone after I changed my driving style. Adding more load on every acceleration. Not just slow acceleration but rather heavier. I would say like taxi style or bus style acceleration and the problem is gone.

Accord Euro 2nd Gen and Civic 8th gen are the one know to have this knocking problems. Jazz 1st gen is good. Normal accord 2nd gen and Jazz 2nd gen has rattle problems. I am talking in general. You should be thankful if you do not have any.

[riftan]

To all civic 8th gen.

Try this and you should know what I am talking about. The pinging/ knocking/ pre-detonation/ pre-ignition noise on engine.

Turn off the aircon. Drive it around without aircon on for around half an hour. Then accelerate the car using 2nd gear from 2250rpm all the way to 6500rpm. When I say accelerate. Floor the pedal, don't do halfway. You will hear the knocking around 4500 - 5500. Mine and my brother's one come out around 5000rpm. The problem will not appear with 1st gear. Only 2nd and 3rd. I never tried in 4th or 5th.

[riftan]

I've got the same issue as you except mine is on the Accord Euro.
Bought the car new late last year and thought this issue that plagued the 2nd gen Euro would have been rectified but NO!

Ping started after 1000Km servicing.
When back to dealer and test drove with senior mech. Acknowledge ping but advised to "accept it" as ECU reflash will make the car drive differently.

Put in the best RON98 fuel hopping it will go away. Has been 3 tanks already and ping is still there. Don't think it's cause by fuel quality.

Some said after the oil change at 10000 Km service, the ping goes away!

I think there is something wrong with Honda engine quality these days. Utterly disappointed with them. Honda Australia's attitude made it worse.

Will go back to dealer and demand fix if I can't take it anymore.

I feel for you. Let us know how you go.

I have called Honda Australia yesterday to follow up my email which I sent on 14th December 2011 to complain about the car which only 3500km old that time. According to their New Vehicle Warranty document I should call 1800 804 954 to complain about this. Amazingly they did not receive my email!!! And they suggested me to escalate the issue through dealership. If within 2 weeks we do not hear anything from dealership than we can report the dealership neglecting the complaint to Honda Australia. Apparently that is the procedure.

Note: I have been in contact with the sales person where I purchased this car. Hopefully he can give me big help on this one.

Knocking or Pinging or Pre-ignition or Detonation is never OK. They are damaging. Whoever in Honda who said that, you should get their statement complete with signature.....I bet will not like the idea

[riftan]

Update on this topic.

After almost a year....finally I found the solution.
* I have brought the car to my local dealership and they are just useless. First time they admit they hear it and blame the fuel. The second time I am there they did not admit they hear the sound but agree they hear the noise first time. Their excuse is nothing can be fixed if no sound exist. I swear to God it was there when I brought the car to them. Friend of mine who work as sales on other dealership already offer the help but I never took it considering the distance. I will use it in the future as my very last resort.......until I found the solution below.

* New finding:
- Oil: Caltex GTX modern car 10W-30. Fuel: Caltex Woolies 98. Knock occurence: 7 out 10 heavy or medium acceleration
- Oil: Caltex GTX modern car 10W-30. Fuel: Shell Coles 98. Knock occurence: 3 out of 10 heavy or medium acceleration.
- Oil: Shell HX7. Fuel: Caltex Woolies 98. Knock occurence: 8 out of 10 heavy or medium acceleration.
- Oil: Shell HX7. Fuel: Shell Coles 98. Knock occurence: 1 out of 10 heavy or medium acceleration.
- Medium or light load acceleration tends to trigger the knock around 5000rpm. But less likely to happen with All-Shell combination. The knock most likely will not occur on heavy acceleration with All-Shell combination. Close to 100% will not occur.

NOTE:
the knock occurence shown above just to be used as comparison to others fuel-oil combination. But for me Shell HX7, Shell 98, and limiting the rpm to only 5000rpm for light and medium acceleration works like a charm. Not sure what Caltex and Castrol have inside their recipe, but my 8th gen FD1 definitely not like it. Either the gas station playing tricks or something else.....who knows.

[lolmclol]

BP Ultimate, I don't know what the dealer filled it up with, but after that I tried the 98 options with Shell and Caltex, and seriously, nothing beats BP Ultimate.

Better fuel economy, and no "stuttering" that I felt I recieved with Shell and Caltex.

[EK1 Civic]

Shell corrodes your injectors and leaves a slim inside your engine, pretty sure if u google, u would find it numerous times.

And yeah I've noticed my car runs smoother on BP Ultimate since the moment i put it in, haven't stopped using it since. Caltex 98 feels like any 91 fuel.

[lolmclol]

What makes it worse is BP is trying to make us Perthians panic by performing maintenance on their refinery. Keep hearing that its unavailable .. although most service stations have had it luckily .. I think its bad to the extent that I will just catch public transport .. transfail .. if there is no ultimate ha ha ha.

Once again .. Honda engines .. love their fuel .. and good fuel. Before anyone says that paying for 98 is ridiculous, you save more in the long run, cleaner fuel, less crap, less crap to build up in your engine, less miss fire etc.

And if you think its just me with love for BP Ultimate ...
Toyota - http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php/topic/26303-bp-ultimate-vs-shell-v-power/
Maxda - http://www.rx8club.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=7068 (rotor <3)
Pinging noise? - http://www.ozpwc.com/forum/showthread.php/11859-BP-98-versus-Caltex-Vortex-98/page3