Clutch Issue, Need help!

[FastFwd]

So 3 months ago i took my car off the road when my clutch peddle gave way. Figured it would be slave or master cylinder. At the same time i needed to remove my gearbox as it was on its last legs from having to much power pushed to it and it was just coping a beating and i knew it. So removed my box, completely rebuilt with a dog gear set, put my car back together and at the same time replaced the Clutch Slave Cylinder. After all that the clutch peddle was still floppy. Push all the way down and can pull all the way back with no resistance. So I figured if its not the slave its gotta be the Master. So i replaced the master, installed it and after testing its still the same issue. Floppy peddle with no resistance.

Now im just stumped. Other than busted hydrolic tubing i really wouldn't know where else to look for an issue. It doesn't even sound like there's a leak somewhere, the peddle doesn't even feel like im pushing down on anything behind it. It just falls away when you push it.

Anyone got any idea's?

[Bludger]

Sound's like there is still air in the system.

[FastFwd]

Bludger,

If there was air in the system wouldnt it give some resistance on the peddle?

My peddle stays on the floor if you push it, it doesnt return.

[Bludger]

Bludger,

If there was air in the system wouldnt it give some resistance on the peddle?

My peddle stays on the floor if you push it, it doesnt return.
yeah, you haven't bleed it properly yet, keep bleeding.

2 ppl is best.

[FastFwd]

yeah, you haven't bleed it properly yet, keep bleeding.

2 ppl is best.

I have a Vac Gun so i don't need the second person. Like this >>> http://www.unitedtools.ie/product_images/x/182/BER5202__55245_zoom.jpg

I've bleed a bit so far but it must need quite a bit more. I will try tomorrow and see how it goes.

[Bludger]

I have a Vac Gun so i don't need the second person. Like this >>> http://www.unitedtools.ie/product_images/x/182/BER5202__55245_zoom.jpg

I've bleed a bit so far but it must need quite a bit more. I will try tomorrow and see how it goes.
I bleed a whole bottle of honda brake fluid before it started to go stiff.

need to do it quick, when i pump the pedal, it's pushing the fluid down the hoses, but air is fighting to get back up.

you need to push it down faster than it can rise.

that's why it took me nearly a whole bottle.

[FastFwd]

So i bleed the breaks for almost a full bottle, Got the clutch working fine now but i think my original problem when i first had issues with my clutch is still there. I have a leak somewhere and i dont think its a hydrolic leak because im not loosing fluids.

When i pump down the clutch and leave it to the floor if i instant remove my foot from the peddle and put it back the clutch will start way down near the floor. But if i take my foot off for a while it will be like normal...

And if i keep my foot on the clutch, after about 10 seconds the friction point moves all the way to the floor and the clutch starts slipping.

It feels like i have a leak but yeah i cant explain it because im not loosing fluid.

[bennjamin]

if you have a leak....it IS a hydraulic leak lol. If you arent loosing fluid then consider where else the fluid sits in. It has to be displacing somewhere. Air is displacing first giving you this unual issue , eventually the clutch fluid will work its wa out.


When the clutch line is 100% fine no leaks , it is a sealed hydraulic system and acts as a direct connection to the release fork and thus clutch diaphragm. Hence any feeling in the pedal is directly connected at the clutch disc end.
Personally think you still need to bleed the clutch properly , or the master cylinder has failed internally and fluid is simply bypassing when you push in/out.

[FastFwd]

if you have a leak....it IS a hydraulic leak lol. If you arent loosing fluid then consider where else the fluid sits in. It has to be displacing somewhere. Air is displacing first giving you this unual issue , eventually the clutch fluid will work its wa out.


When the clutch line is 100% fine no leaks , it is a sealed hydraulic system and acts as a direct connection to the release fork and thus clutch diaphragm. Hence any feeling in the pedal is directly connected at the clutch disc end.
Personally think you still need to bleed the clutch properly , or the master cylinder has failed internally and fluid is simply bypassing when you push in/out.

I have defiantly bleed it correctly. I used over a full bottle of fluid to make sure the line had no air in it. I also have a Vacume gun for bleeding breaks etc which has a one way valve on it to stop air from returning back up the line.

This issue was happening months ago before i removed my gearbox. Since then i have purchased a new Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder so i highly doubt the new Clyinders have the exact same fault as my old ones i remove from the car. The issue seems to be with the lines. As i said before though i have checked the lines and have found no moisture or leakage.

Could there be any issues with the reservoir at all? i know it just sucks fluid into the system and doesnt have any pressure to it but could it cause any issues at all?

[hondapop]

Just to clarify. The vacuum bleeder you are using. Do you mean that it is constantly sucking the fluid out or is it as you also say just a 1 way valve. If it's just a 1 way valve then it won't prevent air from getting back into the system because while the bleeder nipple is open, it will stop fluid and air being drawn back via the bleeder hose, but air can still leak past the threads and seat of the nipple itself.

There is only 1 guaranteed way of doing a 1 man bleed and that is by a pressure system connected to the m/cyl reservoir. i.e. pushing the fluid through, not sucking.
Otherwise the only other way is the 2 person method where you have 1 pumping the pedal while the other opens the bleeder on the "down" stroke and closes it just before the "up". Also the bleeder needs to be finally closed, say, 1/2 way on the "down" to make sure pressure is being applied at that instant.

[IV73CI]

Where exactly have u been inspecting for possible fluid leak??

[FastFwd]

Just to clarify. The vacuum bleeder you are using. Do you mean that it is constantly sucking the fluid out or is it as you also say just a 1 way valve. If it's just a 1 way valve then it won't prevent air from getting back into the system because while the bleeder nipple is open, it will stop fluid and air being drawn back via the bleeder hose, but air can still leak past the threads and seat of the nipple itself.

There is only 1 guaranteed way of doing a 1 man bleed and that is by a pressure system connected to the m/cyl reservoir. i.e. pushing the fluid through, not sucking.
Otherwise the only other way is the 2 person method where you have 1 pumping the pedal while the other opens the bleeder on the "down" stroke and closes it just before the "up". Also the bleeder needs to be finally closed, say, 1/2 way on the "down" to make sure pressure is being applied at that instant.

The tool i have is made for a perfect 1 man bleed.

none the less i got my missus out to help and tried it the old fashioned way and after another half a bottle of fluid im almost 100% sure its bleed correctly with no air. But still the same issue occurs, it feels like there's a leek but i just cant seem to find any and i cant see any loss of fluid in the reservoir


Where exactly have u been inspecting for possible fluid leak??

Fluid lines from the Reservoir, Reservoir to the Master Cyl, Master Cyl to the Slave Cyl and the joints in between that fasten to the chassis.

Other than that there isnt any other clutch hydro lines that i know of.

[IV73CI]

Did u look at your clutch pedal assembly from inside the cabin??

Look at the clutch rod/piston that meets or goes through the firewall.

Leaks can occur here and often the fluid will drip down to your carpets.

Inspect and report back.

[dougie_504]

^ that happened to me but even then I didn't notice any difference in clutch pressure at all whilst driving.

The pedal would soften up while parked and I could pump the air out and get it working again until the fluid ran out.

I didn't know how to bleed the system then so I just topped up and cylinder and got on my knees and pumped that fkn pedal for like 30min straight until it held pressure then topped up again. Lol

[hondapop]

Did u look at your clutch pedal assembly from inside the cabin??

Look at the clutch rod/piston that meets or goes through the firewall.

Leaks can occur here and often the fluid will drip down to your carpets.

Inspect and report back.

Was going to suggest that, but the OP says he's replaced the M/cyl so thought it unlikely, but nevertheless while you're under there checking for that (faulty new ones can happen), also check the pedal freeplay, have read somewhere that if insufficient can interfere with the return of fluid to the M/cyl when the pedal is released.

[Bludger]

99% not bleed properly.

through away that vacumm gun POS and get 2 ppl to bleed properly.

[bennjamin]

just grab a bottle half full of brake fluid - lead the clear 5or6mm tube from the nipple to the bottle - make sure the end sits well below the top of the fluid. loosen nipple and pump away. Get a mate to top up the fluid / check nipple so that it hasnt popped off. Keep pumping for 10-15 tries....should be enough or when there is a steady stream of fresh fluid.

[stndrd]

When you had the gearbox out, did you inspect the condition of the clutch pressure plate, as it sounds like you could possibly have a collapsed pressure plate

[Lanzamus]

I had the same issue, ended up being the master cylinder as it enters the cabin, had fluid leaking under my carpet in the cabin. Id say you deffinatly have a leak somewhere.

[Alexplicit]

i would just do what ive been doing for the last 10 years and get a friend... never ... ever.. had a problem

[hondapop]

i would just do what ive been doing for the last 10 years and get a friend... never ... ever.. had a problem

?? ???

[hayashi_1986]

?? ???

He means have a 2nd person bleed while the pedal is being pumped by the 1st. Like what Bludger's been suggesting. Never had an issue with this method either. First I've heard of a vacuum tool lol

[hmetro24]

How are you bleeding it, are you doing the right way? maybe you are doing something wrong. you do not need a full bottle at all.
When ever you bleed it, will the clutch reservoir fluid go empty?
with out any tools when ever you open the nipple and fluid go out freely than you should tight it.

[GSi_PSi]

how is your release/clutch bearing and clutch fork >? manually inspect the clutch fork for play