tracking street cars

[gelo]

just recently went down to wakefield with circuit club
i went with my full stock ek4

anyway
2 cars blew their engines that day
one of them is my friends full stock dc2r

anyway
this got me a bit worried
ive always wanted to keep my car stock while i track
to improve my skills
but it seems i have to do somethings 2 ot in order to make it more durable on the tracks
i spoke will some ppl from BEL that day
and they told me i definately need and oil cooler
and like the apex FC controller

can i get some advice from some ppl who track their cars often?
what is the bare essentials i need

thanx guys

[edw-R]

Oil cooler, bigger radiator, oil pressure gauge and oil temp. gauge.

[JDM.Power]

well's i aint a track person or a driver yet!!..but il say for sure..a oil cooler.bigger radiator,spark plugs an some oil to change every 5-10 lap's...and tyres

[pgclee]

just get a Toda Oil pump gear...

[ekslut]

My EK4 had only a oil cooler (besides suspension) and I had no problems at all. Watch your temp gauge, if its rising, then replace radiator. Some extra gauges are helpful too, so you can see what your engine is doing. Toda oil pump gear will be good too. And make sure you service your car often, with good oil.

[wynode]

Define what 'blew' and how it blew ????

[gelo]

well
2 cars blew their engines
the Bell EAT22B Sti, i didnt ask about that much
i was on my friend's stock dc2r when the engine started makign clunky noises in the middle of a lap
we pulled into pit and got the BEL guys to check it out
the guys reckon its to do with the crankshaft bearing or something
took it to honda and my friend has to replace the entire bottom block
i actually didnt ask specifically what happened
coz i dunno much about technical stuff anyway
so yeah...
dats what happened

[wynode]

well
2 cars blew their engines
the Bell EAT22B Sti, i didnt ask about that much
i was on my friend's stock dc2r when the engine started makign clunky noises in the middle of a lap
we pulled into pit and got the BEL guys to check it out
the guys reckon its to do with the crankshaft bearing or something
took it to honda and my friend has to replace the entire bottom block
i actually didnt ask specifically what happened
coz i dunno much about technical stuff anyway
so yeah...
dats what happened
Sounds like he spun a bearing.

Most common cause is lack of oil (did he chech his oil levels?)

As for the STi.....it wasn't stock.

[Steer^Gimic]

interesting post! was just at winton the other day for the first time. car didnt skip a beat till the fourth session, the temp was getting pretty high. oil levels where fine, water levels where fine. weather was pretty damm hot though!
can someone explain the advantages of a toda oil pump gear?

[panda[cRx]]

well's i aint a track person or a driver yet!!..but il say for sure..a oil cooler.bigger radiator,spark plugs an some oil to change every 5-10 lap's...and tyres

change oil every 5-10 laps?:rolleyes:

like u said ur not even a driver yet

[tinkerbell]

rofl...

the dc2r had a busted header flange, lol!

def. not a blown engine!

and gelo, i lapped faster than most of the cars there and i was driving a COMPLETELY stock B18C2 engine and a cat back.

if the moral of this story is anything - stock is MORE reliable than modified ;)

my VTiR pulled up fine and i pushed it hard all day until my brakes were eaten (stock pads on DBA 4000 rotors = pad dust!)

gimic - toda oil pump gear is only if you are revving past 8500rpm...

[tinkerbell]

Watch your temp gauge, if its rising, then replace radiator.

And make sure you service your car often, with good oil.

two very good points :thumbsup:

[Disciple]

is takin it to the track if ure not sure good enough chances to put ure engine on the line? i wouldnt do it.. i would get it setup properly before i even tried

[wynode]

ROFL @ blown engine from a busted header!

[gelo]

rofl...

the dc2r had a busted header flange, lol!

def. not a blown engine!

and gelo, i lapped faster than most of the cars there and i was driving a COMPLETELY stock B18C2 engine and a cat back.

if the moral of this story is anything - stock is MORE reliable than modified ;)

my VTiR pulled up fine and i pushed it hard all day until my brakes were eaten (stock pads on DBA 4000 rotors = pad dust!)

gimic - toda oil pump gear is only if you are revving past 8500rpm...


think did u take a look at the car or something
seriously i have no idea
i only said what i was told
it doesnt make any sense to me anyway
so it DIDNT blow its engine?

anyway
yeah tink ur lap times were bloody good
but u did have suspension mods and that helps
my vti-r stock sussy was a bit too soft
but yeah
u kept up with the worked ek4 well
i was watching and it was pretty mad
( is the ek4's plate EK 004?! coz mine is EK400 !!!!)
i didnt see his plate

[ekslut]

I have also heard that a baffled oil pan is necessary if you will be tracking your car. That way your engine wont get starved of oil when your cornering.

Also a lot of these mods mentioned, you can go to track and be fine without. Hondas are made well and can deal with a bit of track work. But in the long term, your engine will be much better off having these things on it. And as the saying goes, better to be safe than sorry. I'm happy to pay $300 for some of these small mods, for the peace of mind and knowing that my engine will be ok and has the support system to keep it going and in good condition.

[chris2k]

Best thing to do is service your car straight after the track day.

An oil cooler is a necessity if you track your car often. A reason why you should also get an oil temp gauge to check the temperature. If you run around 4-6 laps per session, it's usually ok.. But anymore than that ii recommend getting a cooler

[Steer^Gimic]

good tips!
ekslut, a baffled oil pan? more shallow inside? i know the idea behind it, but how would it work?

also, one more q. can oil temp gauge be fitted easily to b16?

[ekslut]

yeah, oil temp gauge can be fitted easily to a B16

The oil baffle pan, to the best of my knowledge, helps keep consistant flow of oil to the engine when cornering. It does this by helping to keep oil where the pickup is, under heavy cornering situations.

The pans from Spoon & Mugen are usually just OEM ones with some baffles added. Where as ones like Morose and Canton are full aluminium made up ones, that usually can hold a bit more oil too. You can also get your pan and get baffles added to it, but most places I have asked want the pan totaly oil free or else they charge heaps for cleaning, like same price as a new Spoon or Mugen one.
I just remember on one of my videos Mr Spoon himself (forgot his name) said if you are going to be tracking your street car, a oil baffle pan is one of the important mods to do, to help with engine life.

[spoondc2]

I have also heard that a baffled oil pan is necessary if you will be tracking your car. That way your engine wont get starved of oil when your cornering.

Also a lot of these mods mentioned, you can go to track and be fine without. Hondas are made well and can deal with a bit of track work. But in the long term, your engine will be much better off having these things on it. And as the saying goes, better to be safe than sorry. I'm happy to pay $300 for some of these small mods, for the peace of mind and knowing that my engine will be ok and has the support system to keep it going and in good condition.

I agree......... experience that everytime when i turn the S bends on the track

[euGeR]

I tracked my DC2R for 3yrs before any mods :D Albeit, not that often - 4 times a yr?

No problems whatever - just simple rules
1. Don't do to many laps - 4-5 is usually a good limit - It's a great car and will hold up in short spurts. You'd probably find street tyres get greasy after that many laps anyway

1 warm down lap and your car will drop 10 degrees. 2 Warm down laps and your oil temp should drop to near stock - 90c
(I see this with my oil temp guage)

2. Change your oil after a track day - though I find some oils are better than others at keeping its consistency after abuse....

If you use OEM gearbox oil, I find that i need to change that as well. However I would put in twice as many laps as most :D

3. Keep things torqued. I like to check any visible bolts under the car for loosness
4. If something sounds strange to you, get it checked out - though this can lead to paranoia, I feel that chances are, something has changed hahaha but I always get called paranoid.

If you want to track more - definately use an oil cooler.

Baffling - to stop oil starvation - is definately recommended on semi's! the corning G-force will slosh your oil around. On street tyres this is less pronounced.
With a baffle, I see no oil pressure drops.

Oil pump gear for high rpm applications :D

------------------
I think one guy had the cracked manifold but the other 2 DC2R's blew their engines.

One had over 130,000k's and was mainly tracked (I think) - I would like to know what happened too :D

[Steer^Gimic]

euGeR that really does sound reassuring. after all, our cars where made to rev, just treat it well and maintain and should be ok.
but i know i will be getting a oil cooler within the next couple of weeks
cheers

[BRU51N]

i was there that day, and the weather was a scorcher.. that would of played a huge factor of ther cars blowing.. plus they might not of been preped for the track. oil etc..

[gelo]

nice advice eugeR
i will porb track my car around 5-6 times a year ( its according to the circuit club calender)
i usually go warm up lap, then around 3 hot laps then 1 slow slap and 3 again
that kinda pattern

im just realli worried
coz i love my car and i love tracking
i dont wanna **** up my car coz of the other
so yea

[euGeR]

Yes, I believe our cars can maintain high RPM for short spurts (Type R's) :D
The world of type R's is proof in itself :)

God knows I always bounce off the rev-limiter atleast 4-5 times a session hahaha... but then, I get my valve clearance checked more than most and I virtually change oil every 2-3000kms (gets expensive). Gearbox oil if Honda MTF - i'll change at the same time (after track), but with syntrax or motul the shifting feels smoother for longer.

My engine is stock - but i have tried to improve reliability ...

Oil cooler, baffled pan - the next thing I gotta watch out for is high water temp

gelo: that's a good habit, and I don't think you'll have any issues - of course the risk gets higher as the age of the engine grows... but you'd naturally expect that.

My last stock car (Corolla SX) - I was still tracking it @ 250,000km :D and that car never gave me any problems - I just checked and serviced things earlier.

Also its good to see what you can do in a stock car, coz when you start modding it, you appreciate the improvements and you've got a baseline for comparison!

Personally I didn't start modding till I wanted to push my car harder for longer ....
but that's where the fun really begins hahah ;)

[ek004]

great post Euge, I'd agree with everything euge said.

In saying that I've tracked MY VTI-R and it doesnt have oil coolers and what not, I limit my driving to about 7-8 hard laps, I change oil before and after a track day and gearbox oil too if need be.

but i'd think an oil cooler and a baffled sump is a very worthwhile upgrade.

Euge - time for an alluminuim oil cooler me thinks , but your car is built with brains for the track, Euge proves that power is not everything at the last track day.

[euGeR]

Yeah do it dave :D go a 16row!

And what the hell do u mean that I proved power is not everything? ahhaha
You're the faster mofo - who proves ek's are just as fast as r's - Tinkerbell also broke the laws of physics ;)

[ek004]

Yeah do it dave :D go a 16row!

And what the hell do u mean that I proved power is not everything? ahhaha
You're the faster mofo - who proves ek's are just as fast as r's - Tinkerbell also broke the laws of physics ;)

hahah im telling you too get the radiator..
im not the one out there doing 15 + laps a session.

[h22a accord]

i agree with wat ppl say about not doing too many laps. 5 laps etc, maybe a few more if its a cool day or a couple less if its hot. oil coolers and baffled sumps are a great idea!

hey did anyone else know that h22a engine have a built in oil cooloer, there is an oil line which runs through a pipe full of the water out of the radiator, while not as effective an 'front mount' oil cooler, its better than nothing!

[tinkerbell]

hey did anyone else know that h22a engine have a built in oil cooloer, there is an oil line which runs through a pipe full of the water out of the radiator, while not as effective an 'front mount' oil cooler, its better than nothing!

nearly all VTEC engines have this :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

nearly all VTEC engines have this :thumbsup:

AFAIK , most honda engines have a oil cooler of sorts too - my D series d16a8 has a small oil cooler on the back of the block too - water direct from/to waterpump runs thru it to cool it down i think?

*back on topic*

[Steer^Gimic]

on the topic of a more appropriate radiator, has anyone had any experience?
anything interchangable with other models, or even aftermarket aluminium ones?
cheers

[tinkerbell]

a clean OEM radiator is more than appropriate,

if you are overheating it is usually due to too much timing (and therefore pinging) or another engine problem.

if you are overheating once you come into the pits, then you are not doing enough of a cool down lap...

[Steer^Gimic]

tinkerbell i would do a cool down lap and it would go down to its appropriate temp quickly, it would be fine by the time i was in the pits, problem was only while i was driving hard. and pinging was not an issue...do you think that it was almost 30degrees it could have been genuinely hot???

[intacivic16v]

Hey guys i have been racing my stock honda's at hill climbs and track events at morgan park (Warick) for the last three years and i havn't blown a think. In the first year i was racing my stock 1986 SiR import civic. This year i have been racing my newer 1988 CRX. i raced it about a week ago and the only thing that was a problem was the brakes... They over heated after 2 laps or so. I guess it depends how many laps you want to do, but i havn't had a problem yet.

[Cyrus]

I've tracked my civic with a 16 row oil cooler, and a twin core radiator (not aluminium), I can pretty much go for 15 laps non stop and it will be under or at 100 degrees during summer. It will last through a whole session and still give me consistent power. Most of the time, the car outlast my fitness though, it gets extremely hot and tiring.

I am not saying to go for such a big oil cooler (I got it because I got it really cheap on e-bay). But all of these do keep ur engine more reliable and obviously a peace of mind. If you guys are looking into getting a radiator, there's always the 2nd option of recoiling ur existing radiator or a 2nd hand stock one. twin core is enough but triple core if you wish.

[tegstar83]

Alos if any of u's watch best motoring when they have their battles's they only do MAX 5 laps before the battle is over. Plus type R's seem to have oil tempreture problems. I recon but not neccessary is to have an Oil catch can for track work as oil is sloshing around in the engine and the high revs are obiously gonna make a lot of oil mist wich will get back into the intake.

One other thing is how easy is it to instal an oil cooler and is it a mojor modification.

[wynode]

Oil cooler isn't too hard to install if you get a sandwitch plate which site between the block and your oil filter.

Then you just route the lines to your oil cooler and have to work out a place to mount the cooler.......thats it!

Also, dont' forget to top up with a lil extra oil :)

[panda[cRx]]

oil coolers are EXTREMELY easy to install as wyn said. i plan on putting one on my baby soon :)

[tegstar83]

']oil coolers are EXTREMELY easy to install as wyn said. i plan on putting one on my baby soon :)

Mad! Well Im looking to buy a cooler as well, but should I buy 19 Row Oil cooler or 13 row?? I found some on E bay and was wondering if there the right type of cooler??
Would I be better off getting a brand name cooler or are they all the same and just do the same job??
Also Panda when u install ur cooler can u do a write up??

[tegstar83]

Also how can u tell if its a sandwich plate type cooler.
Are any of these sandwich type?? (http://search.ebay.com.au/oil-cooler_W0QQfromZR41) :confused:

Ps: Panda, Maybe I can come down and give u a hand installing ur cooler so I can get a grip on how to do it my self. :o

[BlitZ]

hahaahha pit crew style... hahhaha


change oil every 5-10 laps


im an em1... track it non stop all day... never ever sat out on a session...
stock cooling ....
my needle has never ever raised above normal temperature..
i still want an oil cooler though...

hondas are made to rev..... as long as u have good oil(i run oem)(top up maybe) and periodic radiator fluid change... going to the track and fanning it crazy should be ok...

but i would highly recommend a larger radiator or oil cooler..

but stockwise your car is fine...

thats if u drive it normal and dotn drop gears and pop ya revs to 10k

[spoondc2]

hahaahha pit crew style... hahhaha


im an em1... track it non stop all day... never ever sat out on a session...
stock cooling ....
my needle has never ever raised above normal temperature..
i still want an oil cooler though...

hondas are made to rev..... as long as u have good oil(i run oem)(top up maybe) and periodic radiator fluid change... going to the track and fanning it crazy should be ok...

but i would highly recommend a larger radiator or oil cooler..

but stockwise your car is fine...

thats if u drive it normal and dotn drop gears and pop ya revs to 10k


I got a q's....... If the Water Temp is ok, does it mean Oil temp is ok?

[ATSEK4]

I got a q's....... If the Water Temp is ok, does it mean Oil temp is ok?

i think so, if the engine is cool water should be cool. if the engine oil is running hot, water will be hot too.. coz water is trying to cool down the engine.

My water temp is always 97 when i stop at the light. i will find out whether my oil is too oil after i put the gauges. i will let u know.

[wynode]

I got a q's....... If the Water Temp is ok, does it mean Oil temp is ok?
NO!

[BlitZ]

interresting... i thought they were related.. it wont be the same but both would be respective to the other...

[Kawasaki]

Mad! Well Im looking to buy a cooler as well, but should I buy 19 Row Oil cooler or 13 row?? I found some on E bay and was wondering if there the right type of cooler??
Would I be better off getting a brand name cooler or are they all the same and just do the same job??
Also Panda when u install ur cooler can u do a write up??

Why do ppl buy performance items off ebay???!!1!one

stupid if you ask me. quality always!!