Engine Swap Rules and Regulations

[HondaGee]

Hey guys this such a newbie question but is it illegal to put a k20 engine into a civic ek in NSW....I heard all this stuff about engineers signatory which I dnt knw wat the hell it is nd that I apperently need 1?...Please Helpppp

[Bludger]

no...

[HondaGee]

For p platers it is

[Bludger]

For p platers it is
and P platers are a very minor percentage of the population.

plus, in your OP, you mentioned nothing about P platers.

[HondaGee]

Oww damn my bad

[trism]

Do a google search for nsw rta engineers certificate. Go from there.

[gen2 CRX]

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf

[HondaGee]

Chekd it man its talkn bout engineering signatory...so does this let civics have 15% ova its stok power....nd wer can I get engineer signatories?

[Bludger]

Chekd it man its talkn bout engineering signatory...so does this let civics have 15% ova its stok power....nd wer can I get engineer signatories?
http://www.yellowpages.com.au/

[dougie_504]

Chekd it man its talkn bout engineering signatory...so does this let civics have 15% ova its stok power....nd wer can I get engineer signatories?

15% more displacement.

What's your budget before you keep going on? You have a lot of research to do before you seriously consider this.

[trism]

Chekd it man its talkn bout engineering signatory...so does this let civics have 15% ova its stok power....nd wer can I get engineer signatories?

Please. Don't write like a 14 year old girl. Use correct grammar and spelling, and you'll get much more help. I'm sure you don't actually speak this way in real life, so don't write like it.

Secondly, don't expect to be spoon fed. You need to put in some effort yourself. Search google. Make phone calls, ring the rta. You aren't the first person to ever do this, so all of the information is already on the internet.

[HondaGee]

15% more displacement.

What's your budget before you keep going on? You have a lot of research to do before you seriously consider this.

Now I can grab k20a engine with conversion kit for 5600-6000. Nd wt else do I need loll I just cnt get my head wrapped around the engineers signatory?... And the 15% displacement

[HondaGee]

Please. Don't write like a 14 year old girl. Use correct grammar and spelling, and you'll get much more help. I'm sure you don't actually speak this way in real life, so don't write like it.

Secondly, don't expect to be spoon fed. You need to put in some effort yourself. Search google. Make phone calls, ring the rta. You aren't the first person to ever do this, so all of the information is already on the internet.

Ye true I don't okay so that's a lesson learnt. Also I have put in a lot of work but I just can't seem to find much and straight forward answers.

[senna]

U rnt listening r u? lol...

This kind of thing takes time to research mate, look up some build threads and read the sticky threads in the workshop section.

You will need to take notes, there is a lot of information there.

If you want someone to do everything for you then use your unlimited budget and take the whole car to someone like BYP and let them do the whole job for you.

Good luck.

[HondaGee]

Half half...

[dougie_504]

You want to do half of the conversion?

Good luck, given that you can't get your head around the 15% increase on displacement.

Look at it like this:
Standard engine is 1590cc I believe.

1590x1.15 = 1828.5

So you will need an engineering certificate for the k20 which will cost probably $800 and they will inspect the mounting setup, braking setup, exhaust setup, suspension setup etc to determine if it's safe.

Budget yourself a good $10,000 minimum.

[HondaGee]

so ur saying afta i get the engineering certificate i can drive it on my p plates??

[trism]

no. an engineers certificate allows you to register the car.

[HondaGee]

Then there is no point in doing the build for me because I'm on my P's....then wb the b18c7?

[trism]

no.

as a p plater you are not allowed any sort of modification that increases power.

this means engine swaps are out

[HondaGee]

Then how come I see p players driving around with eg or el civics with b18's...

[HondaGee]

Platers*

[Bludger]

you're like a lil baby

why

why

why

[senna]

Then how come I see p players driving around with eg or el civics with b18's...

Because they don't give 2 shts about what they can and can't do on P plates

[Emnesty]

Then how come I see p players driving around with eg or el civics with b18's...

Coz these guys u see dont giv a **** bout the laws..

They make their own laws...

Theyre too hardcore for me.. :p

[oopoc]

I'm not sure about nsw, but up here in qld if you have owned the car since and the work/swap was done before (2003 I think) and it still falls under the power restrictions you can apply for an exemption. But only to and from work/uni (of whatever you "need" it for) but seriously wait till your off your p's then go nuts lol. In my experience p plates draw far too much attention, as they are trying to keep you alive. I can't remember how many times I've been pulled over and they've given my baby a good check over. So if their doing wrong they will get done.

What I'm saying is some guys may be rolling on bigger blocks on their provisionals. But as I see it they are realy missing out. Enjoy the car for what it is, till your off your p's then mod for a purpose, not to be 'cool'

[GSi_PSi]

Actually, owning and knowing a couple of people with engine swapped hondas on my Ps. If the engine meets the ~15% capacity increase you can drive it no problems..

Also ...I have been driving my K20 swapped crx for 1 year now, been pulled over countless times, never once got booked ...to them its just a normal
honda motor as long as it has the Honda sign on it lol... In saying this i now have my fulls so i am in the clear but i havent heard of any of my other P plater mates with K24, B20, swaps
ever being done for driving a enginered engine swapped car.

[HondaGee]

Lmao...well wen registering the car I will have to put it under some1 that is full licenced bcs if I do unda my name dey clearly wud knw tht I'm in my P's nd doin an e.c[QUO
TE][/QUOTE]

[senna]

Lmao...well wen registering the car I will have to put it under some1 that is full licenced bcs if I do unda my name dey clearly wud knw tht I'm in my P's nd doin an e.c


http://www.p0lecat.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1116&g2_serialNumber=1

[trism]

didn't I already the you to stop writing like a 14 year old girl?

[Wru]

While on my P's I was driving my H22A civic for awhile registered still with the D engine, I got pulled over a few times, not once has a cop given me hassle about it, they will see a honda engine and think all is normal, however you can get unlucky for example and get pulled up by a high way patrol who knows his shit and is on a mission to rid the streets of all P platers then you'll be ****ed.

Engineer signatory allows you to blue slip the car with the swapped engine which then allows you to go to the RTA and actually register the car with the engine.

If you do the swap and do not get it checked by an engineer and signed off then when it comes time to pink slip it you will not be able to pass the pink slip inspection until the engine is registered to that chassis (Unless you know a real dodgy guy who will pass it)

In terms of the legality on P plates, like I mentioned before you're only going to get screwed over if you get the wrong cop. You can still register the car in your name the RTA won't have a clue. However another thing to consider is insurance, if something happens to your car your insurance probably won't cover you if they find out you're on your P plates and driving a car that you technically shouldn't be.

Also **** me everyone in this thread just answer the guys question and stop bitching about his typing or telling him to google it. This is what forums are for to ask questions and to get help.

[Vvvtec]

Just cough up the cash and do it properly

[dougie_504]

Call your RTA and ask if you can drive it if it's engineered.

Then call mum and dad and tell them you need $10,000+ for a faster engine.

Then call your insurance company and ask if they will insure you to begin with, because you will need it.

Then call lawyer to arrange your will and funeral arrangements :D

[Emnesty]

Call your RTA and ask if you can drive it if it's engineered.

Then call mum and dad and tell them you need $10,000+ for a faster engine.

Then call your insurance company and ask if they will insure you to begin with, because you will need it.

Then call lawyer to arrange your will and funeral arrangements :D

absolutely spot on right here!!

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/22122/slow_clap_I_dont_care-s500x371-139710-580.png

[curtis265]

Call your RTA and ask if you can drive it if it's engineered.

Then call mum and dad and tell them you need $10,000+ for a faster engine.

Then call your insurance company and ask if they will insure you to begin with, because you will need it.

Then call lawyer to arrange your will and funeral arrangements :D

Top response!

[ALLMTR996]

New laws have come into place within NSW to do with engine upgrades,we have been fighting with the blueslip guys/engineers/RTA for the last 2 days once I get a email back from the RTA I will post up the details.

[Emnesty]

New laws have come into place within NSW to do with engine upgrades,we have been fighting with the blueslip guys/engineers/RTA for the last 2 days once I get a email back from the RTA I will post up the details.

What new laws??

Pls fill us in once u knw

[HondaGee]

What about if I buy a k20 swapped civic (with the motor registered on the car by the previous owner) of someone that has already did the conversion? Then will I be able to drive it?

[HondaGee]

Also would I be able to drive it if I register the civic under a full licensed person e.g dad or mum?

[Bludger]

Also would I be able to drive it if I register the civic under a full licensed person e.g dad or mum?
do you want an exact answer or an opinion?

you will get opinions here.

ring up the RTA for a definitive answer.

[trism]

What about if I buy a k20 swapped civic (with the motor registered on the car by the previous owner) of someone that has already did the conversion? Then will I be able to drive it?






Also would I be able to drive it if I register the civic under a full licensed person e.g dad or mum?


No. It doesnt matter who registered it. You are not legally allowed to drive it.
The car now has a bigger motor, and so is classed as a high power vehicle, just like a v8 or Turbo 6.

You would be able to register under your name but still not be able to drive it.

[HondaGee]

I don't get this bs man. Then how do p platers with civic with a b18c7 engine in it register and drive the car?

[DakDak]

I don't get this bs man. Then how do p platers with civic with a b18c7 engine in it register and drive the car?

P platers are NOT allowed to drive any vehicle with an engineer certificate.

[trism]

They do it because they don't give a fcuk if they get caught. How is that so hard to understand

[curtis265]

I don't get this bs man. Then how do p platers with civic with a b18c7 engine in it register and drive the car?

For the same reason you're now allowed to download movies.

[curtis265]

Then how come I see p players driving around with eg or el civics with b18's...


Platers*


Because they don't give 2 shts about what they can and can't do on P plates


Coz these guys u see dont giv a **** bout the laws..

They make their own laws...

Theyre too hardcore for me.. :p


I don't get this bs man. Then how do p platers with civic with a b18c7 engine in it register and drive the car?


P platers are NOT allowed to drive any vehicle with an engineer certificate.


They do it because they don't give a fcuk if they get caught. How is that so hard to understand

and dude.... seriously? asking the same simple question twice?

[Emnesty]

I don't get this bs man. Then how do p platers with civic with a b18c7 engine in it register and drive the car?

See my post #25 potna!

[DakDak]

^ Yea so just so you dont ask again a P PLATER CANNOT, SHALL NOT, WILL NOT be permitted to drive a vehicle with an engineers certificate.

SO FORGET THE K20 IN YOUR CIVIC

NOW. I will tell you what you can do.
You may be able to put a B18C7 into a civic, PROVIDED it previously had a D16y or something similar. This is because the change in dispacement between the two motors will be smaller than 15%

For example

PERCENTAGES AND YOU

This is the formula:
1.8[Desired B18C7] DIVIDED [because we want to find the percentage ontop] by 1.6 [our current displacement] eguals = 1.125

1.8/1.6=1.125

Now we take 1.125 [the answer] and multiply that by 100 [to give us the percentage]

which is 112.5%
Minus 100 [because we want to see how much over the current displacement we are]
=12.5%
So 12.5% increase which is below the 15% rule. SO YAY!

Now if we did it with a K20
2.0/1.6=1.25
1.25X100
=125
-100
=25% over. So we would need an engineers certificate. Which is unplausible for you.

Now if you got a Integra with the B18C2, C7 etc. A k20 swap would be well within legislation
2.0/1.8=1.11
I'll let you try and finish this equation.

[curtis265]

holy crap man do you study aerospace engineering or something? Because that's rocket science!

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqqvio7viR1qiakemo1_500.jpg

[Emnesty]

holy crap man do you study aerospace engineering or something? Because that's rocket science!

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqqvio7viR1qiakemo1_500.jpg

http://fuuu.us/235.png

[FAITHLESS]

Haha it's simple maths dude

[Bludger]

^ Yea so just so you dont ask again a P PLATER CANNOT, SHALL NOT, WILL NOT be permitted to drive a vehicle with an engineers certificate.

SO FORGET THE K20 IN YOUR CIVIC

NOW. I will tell you what you can do.
You may be able to put a B18C7 into a civic, PROVIDED it previously had a D16y or something similar. This is because the change in dispacement between the two motors will be smaller than 15%

For example

PERCENTAGES AND YOU

This is the formula:
1.8[Desired B18C7] DIVIDED [because we want to find the percentage ontop] by 1.6 [our current displacement] eguals = 1.125

1.8/1.6=1.125

Now we take 1.125 [the answer] and multiply that by 100 [to give us the percentage]

which is 112.5%
Minus 100 [because we want to see how much over the current displacement we are]
=12.5%
So 12.5% increase which is below the 15% rule. SO YAY!

Now if we did it with a K20
2.0/1.6=1.25
1.25X100
=125
-100
=25% over. So we would need an engineers certificate. Which is unplausible for you.

Now if you got a Integra with the B18C2, C7 etc. A k20 swap would be well within legislation
2.0/1.8=1.11
I'll let you try and finish this equation.
but why?

[EG52NV]

Also **** me everyone in this thread just answer the guys question and stop bitching about his typing or telling him to google it. This is what forums are for to ask questions and to get help.

Amen!

[Emnesty]

Amen!

http://m.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/determined-questioning-pondering.png

[HondaGee]

^ Yea so just so you dont ask again a P PLATER CANNOT, SHALL NOT, WILL NOT be permitted to drive a vehicle with an engineers certificate.

SO FORGET THE K20 IN YOUR CIVIC

NOW. I will tell you what you can do.
You may be able to put a B18C7 into a civic, PROVIDED it previously had a D16y or something similar. This is because the change in dispacement between the two motors will be smaller than 15%

For example

PERCENTAGES AND YOU

This is the formula:
1.8[Desired B18C7] DIVIDED [because we want to find the percentage ontop] by 1.6 [our current displacement] eguals = 1.125

1.8/1.6=1.125

Now we take 1.125 [the answer] and multiply that by 100 [to give us the percentage]

which is 112.5%
Minus 100 [because we want to see how much over the current displacement we are]
=12.5%
So 12.5% increase which is below the 15% rule. SO YAY!

Now if we did it with a K20
2.0/1.6=1.25
1.25X100
=125
-100
=25% over. So we would need an engineers certificate. Which is unplausible for you.

Now if you got a Integra with the B18C2, C7 etc. A k20 swap would be well within legislation
2.0/1.8=1.11
I'll let you try and finish this equation.

Then b18c7 it is :). Thanks a lot man you more then answered my question

[DakDak]

Then b18c7 it is :). Thanks a lot man you more then answered my question

No problem. :thumbsup:

Bet I know what your going to start a thread on next.

[dougie_504]

Buy an ITR dude, save yourself the hassle of a swap. Only cost you a few grand on top maybe if you sell your Civic and consider the cost of the conversion.

Far superior car.

[HondaGee]

No problem. :thumbsup:

Bet I know what your going to start a thread on next.

Loll take a guess :)

[HondaGee]

Buy an ITR dude, save yourself the hassle of a swap. Only cost you a few grand on top maybe if you sell your Civic and consider the cost of the conversion.

Far superior car.

Na man I'm a fan of the EK9 loll

[ALLMTR996]

New NSW rego laws with engine swaps 15% capacity + 15% MAX power increase under this blueslip only over this you MUST have an engineering cert.

[dougie_504]

Na man I'm a fan of the EK9 loll

Good luck getting a legit one.

Seriously mate, DC2R. Stiffer chassis, stonger subframe, no sound deadening, larger sway bars, close gear ratios, OEM LSD blah blah. Wtf more could you want! Screw the Civic IMO. You're only trying to get it to ITR spec anyway and it will cost you an arm!

[HondaGee]

Then instead of buying a dc2 ill save a loll more then buy a dc5r loll....aniway which one would win both bone stock?

[lilthug]

win in what??

[GSi_PSi]

win in what??

in drifting

[curtis265]

donuts

[EKVTIR-T]

Seriously mate, DC2R. Stiffer chassis, stonger subframe, Screw the Civic IMO.

Not really true actually


The DC2 is based on the Civic (1991-1995). Therefore the closest platform shared with that generation Civic is the EG6 SiR.

The EK9 is obviously a newer design and therefore the suspension and body is stiffer. However, Honda made the DC2 Type R quite a lot stronger than the EG6 or DC2 SiR when is debuted in 1995 autumn. When the EK9 debuted in 1997 autumn with its increased handling performance, the 98 Spec DC2 quickly followed in 1998 winter. The 98 Spec had increased body reinforcements to bring it on par with the EK9. However, the basic design is still based on older technology, making the EK9 still stiffer. Many Honda enthusiasts agree that the EK9 handles more neutrally and stable in corners, partly due to its longer wheelbase and short rear overhang. The DC2 has a slight tail out stance under constant velocity in corners.

EK9 the body structure folding and welding points as well as some materials used already makes it heavier than the EG Civic, even though it isn't that much bigger. On the EK9, the front and rear reinforcement bar is much thicker than the DC2.

One area that I feel is more rigid than the DC/EG chassis is the design of the front lower arm. On the DC/EG, the lower arm is a bolt on 2-piece type while the EK uses a L-shaped one piece type.

[Bludger]

^^

spoken from an EK fanboy

[EKVTIR-T]

You just couldnt resist could you

I was expecting your reply as I posted

[Bludger]

One area that I feel is more rigid than the DC/EG chassis is the design of the front lower arm. On the DC/EG, the lower arm is a bolt on 2-piece type while the EK uses a L-shaped one piece type.
I have no idea how you could feel this.

the two piece has it's advantages over the one piece.

one piece being cost saving measure.

[HondaGee]

win in what??

A street race or drag

[Bludger]

A street race or drag
post reported.

[curtis265]

A street race or drag


no talk of street racing on ozhonda

period

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/2/1238710377305/Police-stop-G20-protester-001.jpg

[tiksie]

What a waste of people typing out responses.

This guy isn't going to buy anything. He will end up with a EG carby and put a muffler and pod filter on it and leave it at that.

[JayTea18]

Very interesting info

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&redir_esc=&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-search-app&v=133247963&qsubts=1333926264692&action=devloc&q=engineering+engine+swap&v=133247963

[JayTea18]

Very interesting info

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&redir_esc=&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-search-app&v=133247963&qsubts=1333926264692&action=devloc&q=engineering+engine+swap&v=133247963

Once your on that page click on 1st link

[curtis265]

party's over bro

[Bludger]

party's over bro
exactly, welcome to last month.


next month, jacking off over s15's

[JayTea18]

party's over bro

Yeah i know.

Just wanted to contribute because im doing research for my future
- k swap