B16a 103kw atw

[alessioo]

21715Hey guys.
Got my car dyno today made 103 kw at the wheels.

Specs.
Brian crower stage 2 cams advanced 4 degrees intake and exhaust.
Brian cam gears
Bring up rated dual valve springs.

2.5 xforce exhaust system
Carbon whale penis.
Hondata s300v2

Should it of made more power?

Should I be happy with it?

Are these cams too big for stock comp

Drives well and the car moves as its a ek4 vtir.

Just thought it would make around 110 to 120.

Any suggestion on what it holding it back.

[SLOBRO]

2L Bottom end thats whats holding it back lol

[EKVTIR-T]

Dynos all read different,and also taking into account other variables.

I would have expected more also but yeah hard to say.Ever compression tested the engine?

[alessioo]

Lol bottom end.

Haven't done the comp test.

Not sure what I should do.

Change cams?

Shave the head?

Itr intake manifold?

[SLOBRO]

Lol bottom end.

Haven't done the comp test.

Not sure what I should do.

Change cams?

Shave the head?

Itr intake manifold?
y u lolling lol im serious do a b20vtec you will love it

[Slaz]

Do you have the dyno run sheet available??

Be good to see what dyno and ramp rates were used, but my stock B16 in a daily I have pumped out 94 kw atw on a conservative dyno, so with the sheet, it would give more insight as to how much power and where you are making it......

[xV73Cx]

I have seen a b16a2 with the usual bolt ons IHE, standard ecu, FPR @ 45psi made 98fwkw - no tune.

So with your mods and s300 combo it would be expected that you would have made at least 115-120fwkw.

Get another dyno run somewhere else and see what it really pulls mate.

As people have said different dynos outputs different figured.

With those mods, u should put out more IMO

[Jccck]

Brilliant, now put your Cam Gear cover back on before you fill the Timing Belt up with dirt.

Maybe try and find somone with a Dynapak, might get a more correct figure.

[curtis265]

i'd say get that compression checked before anything else

[dougie_504]

Can't tell with no other cars dyno'd for comparison.

Compression test it. Shaving the head will bump compression and make more peak power.

How does it drive? Before and after feeling comparison?

[alessioo]

21716

[Super-DA9]

+1 to comp test. can pick up a tester from supercheap for $35.

[nate92]

my dc2 vtir made 101.4 kw stock y0, is it tune properly? with your mods its an easy 120 kw if tune correctly. Make sure its a genuine hondata s300.

[dougie_504]

Lol bottom end.

Haven't done the comp test.

Not sure what I should do.

Change cams?

Shave the head?

Itr intake manifold?


IMO mate.

B20 block.
Shave B16A head, port it a little if you can be bothered.
ITR TB/IM/fuel rail/injectors.
Match your mani's if you can be bothered.
I/H/E.
Re-tune.

[IEVAQ8]

did steve tune it???

or did u just use his dyno???

[GSi_PSi]

Lol go take it down the 1/4. see what mph......

dyno figures will do your head over


Peak power number means jack all, if its not making good torque

B20vtec ftw

[stevem355]

did steve tune it???

or did u just use his dyno???

TOM yeah i did tune it . it is a little rocket on the street . his very happy with it ....

[tripleuse]

Lol bottom end.

Haven't done the comp test.

Not sure what I should do.

Change cams?

Shave the head?

Itr intake manifold?

definately next step is b20 if u want more power, the bottom end is definiately restricting you... stage 2 cams on b16? do u even have a mid range? hahahaha

[alessioo]

Car is amazing for what it is.
I'm going to leave it ATM as I'm happy.

Steve is a top tuner

[alessioo]

217562175721758

[alessioo]

Really happy the way it drives ATM.
Before the tune it was so sluggish on vtec.

Smooth right through the rev range

[na-118]

turbo charge
it

[SU-WOOP]

fresh engine oil? friction loss is a big deal!

[gbpracing]

21715Hey guys.
Got my car dyno today made 103 kw at the wheels.

Specs.
Brian crower stage 2 cams advanced 4 degrees intake and exhaust.




Brian cam gears
Bring up rated dual valve springs.

2.5 xforce exhaust system
Carbon whale penis.
Hondata s300v2

Should it of made more power?

Should I be happy with it?

Are these cams too big for stock comp

Drives well and the car moves as its a ek4 vtir.

Just thought it would make around 110 to 120.

Any suggestion on what it holding it back.

My thoughts would be to go with I.T.B's if you havent done race port then I would .

[Evok]

With that much work done to it . I think you should of got a bit more with s300

[alessioo]

Next step.
Shave head 50
Port and polish
Intake mani and throttle body
Fuel reg
Crower cams 403 stage 3 as I will have the comp for it

[GSi_PSi]

Dude why waste your time and just go for a b18 or b20 bottom. Or are you just chasing dyno numbers ?

[nate92]

Just turbo it if you want more power

[alessioo]

Cause I want N A power and don't want to change bottom ends.

[tripleuse]

if u dont want to change the bottom end or go forced induction, there really isnt much more u can do to get more power.

[ericl33]

he wants that loud crossover.

[Water Boy]

I think it good that you are working on a 1.6ltr. The up to 1600cc is a very competitive class in most state for circuit racing. You have the 4age (both 16v and 20v), Suzuki swift, gemeni's, Mazda 323. Good on you.

I know you have a vtec motor and Honda's are very different but to give you an idea my Dad's Mk1 golf with a 16v 1.6ltr twin cam on ITB's etc makes 99kw's at the front wheels at 8200rpm. So I personally think your car is making good usable HP.

Keep us posted how you go with future mods, 1/4mile and track days.

[alessioo]

I'm sure upping comp and bigger cams plus intake mods will give it some more power.
It is what it is and i want to work with what I have.
Next project will be a ep3r

[alessioo]

Thanks water boy

[VT3C]

A few years back last time i was on a rolling drum type dyno my jdm b16 with i/h/e/spoon ecu only got 92kw but it was next to a dc2 vtir with i/h/e only made 90kw..

dyno's are just a tuning tool unless u have other cars to compare against but even then so many variables.i'd look at your base run before he tuned it and then the post-tune graphs. Mainly you want a linear torque curve with no dips or peaks and your power curve fairly linear to redline (depending on cams etc) before flattening out at your peak. Your cams should make peak power at 7000-8000rmp if you are running a larger than stock cat and high-flow header.

And lastly, the hp figures u see comming out of the us are always optimistic compared to aus, jpn, nz etc.. if they say their stock b16 is putting down 140hp on 92 ron fuel, u can be sure the same engine in aus on 98 will be 120whp... i dont know if they have smaller horses or different dyno calibration or what but thats the way it is.

[blabla]

A few years back last time i was on a rolling drum type dyno my jdm b16 with i/h/e/spoon ecu only got 92kw but it was next to a dc2 vtir with i/h/e only made 90kw..

dyno's are just a tuning tool unless u have other cars to compare against but even then so many variables.i'd look at your base run before he tuned it and then the post-tune graphs. Mainly you want a linear torque curve with no dips or peaks and your power curve fairly linear to redline (depending on cams etc) before flattening out at your peak. Your cams should make peak power at 7000-8000rmp if you are running a larger than stock cat and high-flow header.

And lastly, the hp figures u see comming out of the us are always optimistic compared to aus, jpn, nz etc.. if they say their stock b16 is putting down 140hp on 92 ron fuel, u can be sure the same engine in aus on 98 will be 120whp... i dont know if they have smaller horses or different dyno calibration or what but thats the way it is.

Ive got a b16a2 running CROME ecu mugen style intake headers exhaust tunnd to 92 kw at the wheels BY Bel Garage myself. It's ok considering the engine is stock.

[ekslut]

A few years back last time i was on a rolling drum type dyno my jdm b16 with i/h/e/spoon ecu only got 92kw but it was next to a dc2 vtir with i/h/e only made 90kw..

dyno's are just a tuning tool unless u have other cars to compare against but even then so many variables.i'd look at your base run before he tuned it and then the post-tune graphs. Mainly you want a linear torque curve with no dips or peaks and your power curve fairly linear to redline (depending on cams etc) before flattening out at your peak. Your cams should make peak power at 7000-8000rmp if you are running a larger than stock cat and high-flow header.

And lastly, the hp figures u see comming out of the us are always optimistic compared to aus, jpn, nz etc.. if they say their stock b16 is putting down 140hp on 92 ron fuel, u can be sure the same engine in aus on 98 will be 120whp... i dont know if they have smaller horses or different dyno calibration or what but thats the way it is.

:thumbsup: Well said, completly agree.

End of the day unless your after bragging rights who cares about the number, as long as it feels how you want it to. And if your after a nice high number to tell your mates, then your not going to get much more with a B16. You need more capacity, can get another 15-20% more a B18 or B20 block.

To give you an idea though, I have s B16 with similar mods to you - stage 2 headwork, but I have some higher comp pistons and ITB's (although the ITB's don't give much top end, so wouldn't effect the max figure too much) and I made 110kw. Should have a couple more now I fixed up a few restictions but end of the day I could jump on one dyno and make 115kw then go to another straight after and make 105kw...

[alessioo]

Yeh u guys are right.
ATM the car hammers I just want a little more torque and pull.

Just going to comp it up a bit with crower 403 cams and maybe a lighter flywheel.

If I go b18 it will never stop as I'll have the taste of power lol.

Original plan was to buy a b18c7 and go ballistic with it and then put it in and sell the b16 but what for it's my daily and just a civic.
I'd rather buy a type r and go from there.

[blabla]

B18c7 best all round motor. I should of bought that at the time I was looking at doing my engine conversion.

[ericl33]

B18c7 best all round motor. I should of bought that at the time I was looking at doing my engine conversion.
agreed.

especially an un-opened one.

[GSi_PSi]

Yeh u guys are right.
ATM the car hammers I just want a little more torque and pull.

Just going to comp it up a bit with crower 403 cams and maybe a lighter flywheel.

If I go b18 it will never stop as I'll have the taste of power lol.

Original plan was to buy a b18c7 and go ballistic with it and then put it in and sell the b16 but what for it's my daily and just a civic.
I'd rather buy a type r and go from there.

If you want more pull then I suggest a 4.7 ITR gearbox or an 4.9FD upgrade.
Definitely go lighter flywheel , will free up the rev-ability

[ekslut]

If you want more pull then I suggest a 4.7 ITR gearbox or an 4.9FD upgrade.
Definitely go lighter flywheel , will free up the rev-ability

Agree, both those mods make a big difference, more than what you will probably feel with higher comp pistons...although it won't effect your number figure.

Honestly unless there is a specific reason why you want to stick to a B16 bottom end, it would probably work out the same if not cheaper dollar wise (especially if your looking at re-building your head again with new cams) if you were to just using your current built head on a B18 or B20 block. Would get some better figures too, and get you that extra torque you were looking for. I have looked at stage 3 cams for my setup, but the gains aren't worth it. I built a B16 to stay in the under 1600cc class, but in a few years I will build a B20 block and use my current head to compete in the under 2000cc class.

[connorling]

If you want more pull then I suggest a 4.7 ITR gearbox or an 4.9FD upgrade.
Definitely go lighter flywheel , will free up the rev-ability

i was just about to suggest that, then i saw this post.
changing the final drive is one of the best thing u can do beside u get the annoying speedo out, which can be fixed.

i did the final drive on my S2000 and it drives so much better for daily, only problem was it shows i am doing 124km/h when i actually do100 as per my GPS suggest.

[alessioo]

It has 4:4s ATM I think that is good enough

[alessioo]

I'll just have to do research

[ericl33]

It has 4:4s ATM I think that is good enough
you need to feel the difference before you can make that comment.

the difference is night & day.

[alessioo]

U serious.
What's the pros and cons tho

[ericl33]

wrong speedo reading, higher fuel consumption, driving in higher gear for same speed compared to 4.4, less top speed

pros - faster acceleration

[tripleuse]

Yeh u guys are right.
ATM the car hammers I just want a little more torque and pull.



are you ****ing srs? u want more torque and pull but yet ur getting bigger cams?unbelievable!

[ericl33]

are you ****ing srs? u want more torque and pull but yet ur getting bigger cams?unbelievable!
instead of just asking if he is srs....

explain to him why you think his decision is crazy...:)

[alessioo]

? Please explain

[ericl33]

? Please explain
What camshafts do is they move the power band higher in the rev range.

therefore you will lose talk & pull lower in the rev range.

[FAITHLESS]

What camshafts do is they move the power band higher in the rev range.

therefore you will lose talk & pull lower in the rev range.
why is this? please explain how bigger cams effect air flow at low engine speeds.

[ericl33]

why is this? please explain how bigger cams effect air flow at low engine speeds.
an analogy would be two water pipes of different sizes.

with the same amount of water flowing through, the smaller pipe would have a powerful jet of water streaming out.

where as the much larger pipe doesn't have enough volume of water, therefore only trickling out.

@ lower RPM (less airflow) there is not enough speed in the airflow with larger cams.



are you ****ing srs? u want more torque and pull but yet ur getting bigger cams?unbelievable!
your turn......

[FAITHLESS]

an analogy would be two water pipes of different sizes.

with the same amount of water flowing through, the smaller pipe would have a powerful jet of water streaming out.

where as the much larger pipe doesn't have enough volume of water, therefore only trickling out.

@ lower RPM (less airflow) there is not enough speed in the airflow with larger cams.



well explained. i imagine it would also reduce the swirl effect on the intake stroke inside the chamber until higher rpm's.

[alessioo]

Tho I'll be raising compression to accommodate for the cams!

[ericl33]

Tho I'll be raising compression to accommodate for the cams!
this will not effect airflow @ lower RPM.

[FAITHLESS]

What about stroking it?

[FAITHLESS]

Scratch the above. B18 and b20 cranks don't fit b16

[alessioo]

:(:(:(

[Super-DA9]

with stage III or bigger cams you're moving the powerband to the top. 4 cylinder engines need to rev high to make use of large cams.

regardless of your compression ratio the effect ericl33 described is still there.

if you want bigger torque/low end you will need to increase your displacement.

[alessioo]

I got a
Pm from someone offering a b20 to me but I can't reply as there inbox is
Full.
Hopefully you see this

[alessioo]

So I've decided.

Edlebrock victor x mani
68 mm throttle
Mill head 0.050
Race port head
Match port intake and exhaust
Fuel reg
Crower 403 race cams
Cosmic head gasket
Block guard.

Spoke to my turner 115 to 120 kw atw.

I'm happy with that.

If any one has any suggestions other then engine swaps or b20 please comment.

I want to stay b16 as they are a good motor.

Thanks

[GSi_PSi]

how much is all this costing you may i ask?

[mocchi]

I got a
Pm from someone offering a b20 to me but I can't reply as there inbox is
Full.
Hopefully you see this

click his name, do a search of thread created by him
reply back in their WTB or For Sale thread.

[alessioo]

$2200.
Thanks I will do that

[GSi_PSi]

didnt u make like ~130kw atw with ur d16?

[tripleuse]

i know youre not set on b20, but for 2.2k you could build a mean b20 and ur heads already semi built you will get good power 130kw +, gsi psi got 130 easily!! do it man u wont regret it.

[ericl33]

So I've decided.

Edlebrock victor x mani
68 mm throttle
Mill head 0.050
Race port head
Match port intake and exhaust
Fuel reg
Crower 403 race cams
Cosmic head gasket
Block guard.

Spoke to my turner 115 to 120 kw atw.

I'm happy with that.

If any one has any suggestions other then engine swaps or b20 please comment.

I want to stay b16 as they are a good motor.

Thanks
you want to use victor x with b16?

bad

you will have shit power down low and screaming top end.

shit for daily.

[GSi_PSi]

toda spec c have been yielding good results with torqueless wonder.. i mean b16

[alessioo]

Lol.
What mani u recommend.

I know what the b20 holds but what about engineers cert.

Toda c is good and crower 403 just at close to lift and duration.

My d16 made 161 hp atw which is 99 kws atws.

Car screamed and went hard but this car is heavier and more of a daily.

[ericl33]

Lol.
What mani u recommend.

I know what the b20 holds but what about engineers cert.

Toda c is good and crower 403 just at close to lift and duration.

My d16 made 161 hp atw which is 99 kws atws.

Car screamed and went hard but this car is heavier and more of a daily.
type r mani

victor x for boost, used it.

[GSi_PSi]

Lol.
What mani u recommend.

I know what the b20 holds but what about engineers cert.

Toda c is good and crower 403 just at close to lift and duration.

My d16 made 161 hp atw which is 99 kws atws.

Car screamed and went hard but this car is heavier and more of a daily.


lol 161hp is like 120kw

you willing to pay 2grand for like 5kw gain but wont pay like 500 bucks (b20 bottom end)+800 dollars to get your car engineered +30kw gain not to mention a shit ton of
torque

mind is blown

[mocchi]

b16 is nugget

b20 block+b16 head+coilovers+rsb+s300+tune
2200 better spent there i rkn

[alessioo]

I like the b16a
Plus motor has 100.000 on it and I
Like to keep it stock looking un molested so one day I can sell it.

Finest example of a clean ek4 going around.

Once it's got a b20 in it no one will buy it.
I wouldn't

[alessioo]

For intake isn't short runners good for down low and long runners for top end.
Victor x is small runners so why bad for low down

[gnx1987]

I don't get the bigger cam thing. Doesn't bigger cams = more air flow which = more air in the cylinder which = more fuel too which = bigger bang which = more torque?

[mooshie]

For intake isn't short runners good for down low and long runners for top end.
Victor x is small runners so why bad for low down
other way round...

[EK1 Civic]

dropkick

[alessioo]

??? Dropkick

[ekslut]

I like the b16a
Plus motor has 100.000 on it and I
Like to keep it stock looking un molested so one day I can sell it.

Finest example of a clean ek4 going around.

Once it's got a b20 in it no one will buy it.
I wouldn't

Personally if I was looking at buying a car, I would much rather a mildly tuned B20 over a highly tuned B16...engine hasn't been as highly strung and would most likely be in better condition. And looks wise you wouldn't notice the difference if you were just looing in the bay if you want to keep it stock looking.

Anyways, in my opinion I think your going about this build all wrong. To re-do the head again is a waste I think, and I wouldn't be spending the $2k+ for 5kw. There are much better places to put the $$ into and get more gains like in the suspension especially seeing as though in another thread you said you were running reset springs. Set of coilovers would do wonders and if not done already some improvements to your brake system, and as mentioned before I think you will feel the gains more from a new final drive and lightened flywheel than another 5kw.

But as long as you will be happy with the results in the end, then good luck to you!!

[mocchi]

For intake isn't short runners good for down low and long runners for top end.
Victor x is small runners so why bad for low down

fat n short for high rpm
narrow and long for low rpm

[Jccck]

I don't get the bigger cam thing. Doesn't bigger cams = more air flow which = more air in the cylinder which = more fuel too which = bigger bang which = more torque?

Most performance Camshafts don't really add power overall, they just adjust the power curve.
So you rob a little power from low RPM and give a lot to high RPM!

Ofcourse you can get Camshafts suited for low end torque.. Quite popular in 4x4ing.