Koni yellows vs F&F coilovers

[YER801]

Hey guys,

so ive been tossing up the differences in these two... i can get a custom spring made from king springs to get my desired height front and rear so height isnt really a problem..

now im after ride quality, ill be on 19's so i dont expect stock quality but its my daily so im after a bit of comfort..

so who has what and is happy with it?

[senna]

My personal and professional opinion is that the Koni is a higher quality damper that is better suited to our road conditions.

My main concern with F&F coilovers is that the body is tiny and this means that the piston size and the volume of fluid is quite small. This means that over complex high frequency bumps and ripples the shock will take longer to control the body movement and it can also heat up quicker and lead to premature seal failures.

There are others that have the F&F coilovers and are very happy with them, so i'm sure you will get many differing opinions...

[DreadAngel]

I was trying to access their site to check out their specs and what not but the site [http://www.f2autolife.com/] is down atm =|

Koni Yellows I had were adjustable [4 step] with KG/MM DR Springs [iirc], perfect imo for any situation from cruise [soft] to daily to 'sport' on the hardest setting. Even on the softest or hardest setting, the Koni Yellows maintained perfect composure, they didn't float nor crash about =)

[YER801]

Im leaning way toward koni yellows but 950 bucks(with springs) vs f&f's 750 with adjust height.

I mean people is the states are loving them but their surfaces arent the same as here.

Thankyou heaps your professional opinion.

I would love to hear from an aussie with the f&f coilovers though as I aleady know I can go low and retain a great ride on some koni yellow shocks

[DreadAngel]

Honestly though, how many times are you going to adjust your height?

And when your F&F Coilovers go bang or have issues, can you rebuild them locally? Or have to send it over to the States [I'm assuming its a US brand]?

At least with Koni you have distributors and specialist that can service it etc.

[Fredoops]

My personal and professional opinion is that the Koni is a higher quality damper that is better suited to our road conditions.

My main concern with F&F coilovers is that the body is tiny and this means that the piston size and the volume of fluid is quite small. This means that over complex high frequency bumps and ripples the shock will take longer to control the body movement and it can also heat up quicker and lead to premature seal failures.

There are others that have the F&F coilovers and are very happy with them, so i'm sure you will get many differing opinions...

How's a DIY koni kit stack up with TEIN street basis?

Also iirc F&F is not rebuildable, unlike Teins.


Hey guys,

so ive been tossing up the differences in these two... i can get a custom spring made from king springs to get my desired height front and rear so height isnt really a problem..

now im after ride quality, ill be on 19's so i dont expect stock quality but its my daily so im after a bit of comfort..

so who has what and is happy with it?
I think koni shocks can drop 1.5 inch without needing to do anything to the spring.

[charliebrown]

F&F coils are fine on australian roads. I've been using them for a few months, not too bad once you get used to it but backseat passengers will bitch, tell them to 90EAD

If they blow buy another set, cheap anyway m8. nah srsly they shouldnt blow, well from what i read anyway havent heard of any shat themself

[Fredoops]

^^i must be getting old ... wtf is 90ead?

[curtis265]

eat a..

[YER801]

F&F coils are fine on australian roads. I've been using them for a few months, not too bad once you get used to it but backseat passengers will bitch, tell them to 90EAD

If they blow buy another set, cheap anyway m8. nah srsly they shouldnt blow, well from what i read anyway havent heard of any shat themself

True? I just dont want to turn a smooth comfy car into something unlike a lux car. How big of a differance is there?

[senna]

How's a DIY koni kit stack up with TEIN street basis?

Also iirc F&F is not rebuildable, unlike Teins.


I think koni shocks can drop 1.5 inch without needing to do anything to the spring.

Tein is good quality although rebuilds can be expensive through Australian dealers. I would still consider the Koni option for this situation

[Lazarus]

^^i must be getting old ... wtf is 90ead?

go eat a...


Tein is good quality although rebuilds can be expensive through Australian dealers. I would still consider the Koni option for this situation

Yeah i was gonna ask the same thing, how's the comparison with Tein SS to Koni.. or even a Eibach/Bilstein setup

[gbpracing]

Im leaning way toward koni yellows but 950 bucks(with springs) vs f&f's 750 with adjust height.

I mean people is the states are loving them but their surfaces arent the same as here.

Thankyou heaps your professional opinion.
I would love to hear from an aussie with the f&f coilovers though as I aleady know I can go low and retain a great ride on some koni yellow shocks
Go for Koni shocks or if you want better Ohlins but I know from first hand experiance Koni are great value. I race on Koni Yellows for over 10 years and never regreted it. I cant say how they go on road but Im sure if set up with the right springs they would be perfect. Just make sure you get the right shock/spring for your particular application.
Any shock has a given stroke length.. if you lower the car so low as to reduce that stroke you will run out and experiance bump steer at the front and bone crushing bang in the rear. You must have the shock modified. If the shock has a normal ... say for example 5" stroke and you lower the car 3" then your left with 2" of stroke and thats not enough to cope with every day road conditions. I hope you get my point here !

[ChaosMaster]

How's a DIY koni kit stack up with TEIN street basis?

Also iirc F&F is not rebuildable, unlike Teins.


I think koni shocks can drop 1.5 inch without needing to do anything to the spring.

Does this mean we can reuse the stock springs? I'm looking at something similar, with comfort high on my list. Not like I'm gonna track my CL9. Only want to drop 15/25mm f/r.

[charliebrown]

Does this mean we can reuse the stock springs? I'm looking at something similar, with comfort high on my list. Not like I'm gonna track my CL9. Only want to drop 15/25mm f/r.

Why drop more on the rear? Is this the look you're after?

http://www.vlturbo.com/images/gallery/819-trixtr-arriving-at-the-et-street-meet-point.jpg

[Fredoops]

Does this mean we can reuse the stock springs? I'm looking at something similar, with comfort high on my list. Not like I'm gonna track my CL9. Only want to drop 15/25mm f/r.

Pretty sure you can.

Senna Comments? Just in case im seeing fairies.

[JohnO]

Why drop more on the rear? Is this the look you're after?

http://www.vlturbo.com/images/gallery/819-trixtr-arriving-at-the-et-street-meet-point.jpg

Like you say low is a lifestyle.

[senna]

Pretty sure you can.

Senna Comments? Just in case im seeing fairies.

Yes, stock springs can be used and then the position of the spring seat can be moved down - i have done this on my civic and it works well

[curtis265]

Does this mean we can reuse the stock springs? I'm looking at something similar, with comfort high on my list. Not like I'm gonna track my CL9. Only want to drop 15/25mm f/r.

yes, it's what i'm running on my prelude



edit: fuak senmun beat me to it

[tonysalib]

can the koni yellows be used with tein s.tech springs?

[senna]

Yes :thumbsup:

[tonysalib]

Yes :thumbsup:

Thanks. PM sent.

[mocchi]

kony > ff

[ChaosMaster]

Why drop more on the rear? Is this the look you're after?

http://www.vlturbo.com/images/gallery/819-trixtr-arriving-at-the-et-street-meet-point.jpg

Lolz, I meant drop the front more. My bad. Measured 60mm gap front and only 50mm gap rear, trying to keep them even.

[DreadAngel]

Koni Yellows can work with pretty much any street/sport spec'd springs, the dampening probably not suited for race springs [ie very high spring rate and very low ride height like -50-60mm Drop] but then again you've got other Koni's for that ;)

[3RotaRX]

How's a DIY koni kit stack up with TEIN street basis?

Also iirc F&F is not rebuildable, unlike Teins.


I think koni shocks can drop 1.5 inch without needing to do anything to the spring.

Function and form are rebuild able.

[ChaosMaster]

Koni Sport + stock springs vs Tein Basis. Which would be better?

[curtis265]

depends if u want a harder ride or not.

[ChaosMaster]

Nope, after a comfortable ride.

[SPQR]

Nope, after a comfortable ride.

Then you should not go the sporty route. I have Koni Yellows. The ride is far too stiff now. I tried them on the softest setting but the car would jiggle about on bumpy roads. I have now set them on stiffest setting and the ride is stiff but controlled and not jiggly. They work very well when you drive quickly even on bumpy roads; but low speed ride is a kidney killer. I don't have experience with coil-over types but I'd imagine that they are a higher order of stiffer again. Why is it that a "suspension upgrade" is stiffer suspension? Why is it not instead smoother but controlled riding suspension? It is well know that suspension that is too stiff will slow you down if the road is not (race track) billiard table smooth.

[DreadAngel]

^

What springs did you match the Koni Yellows with? =)

[Rudy]

Curious to know as well what spring and rate you went with.

[curtis265]

Then you should not go the sporty route. I have Koni Yellows. The ride is far too stiff now. I tried them on the softest setting but the car would jiggle about on bumpy roads. I have now set them on stiffest setting and the ride is stiff but controlled and not jiggly. They work very well when you drive quickly even on bumpy roads; but low speed ride is a kidney killer. I don't have experience with coil-over types but I'd imagine that they are a higher order of stiffer again. Why is it that a "suspension upgrade" is stiffer suspension? Why is it not instead smoother but controlled riding suspension? It is well know that suspension that is too stiff will slow you down if the road is not (race track) billiard table smooth.

softer suspension will jst make you jiggle about more, you have a light car, nothign you can do about it

it's an upgrade because it's still better than stock.

try stock springs srsly

[SPQR]

At nearly 1.5 tonnes, CL9 is not light. My car's springs are stock. Car lowered a whopping 10mm.

I don't consider stiffer suspension an upgrade unless it genuinely allows for faster point-to-point driving on normal roads. I'm not condoning exceeding the speed limit lest governments get bloated on revenue. Bumps slow progress. Stiff suspension over bumps slows progress more.

Limiting suspension travel that can be a result of over-lowering might look good but it's counter-productive to rapid forward progress on (now) ubiquitous bumpy roads.

[curtis265]

you are correct, but IMO for konis to be too stiff you'd have to be driving on the edges of severe ruts - 10-20mm undulations which i know do exist but rarely (where i live anyway)

oh and i really wouldn't try upgrade suspension to go faster on normal roads, i do it to control body roll around roundabouts and give a more confident feeling through high radius bends

you just can't get that stock

[Fredoops]

Stock spring does not necessarily gives you a more comfortable ride.

The damper/shocks has to be matched to the spring rate else it'll just won't work.

Hence why sometimes stiffening up may actually make things more comfortable.

[ChaosMaster]

I basically just want to lower my ride by a bit. Thought that Koni would have been the best bet, doesn't seem like it now. Guess Tein Basis it is. Would have loved the Tein CST which are said to be more comfortable, but they cost way too much.

[senna]

You can't safely make that assumption without being/driving in two cars with the two different set-ups.

This is the problem with forums and suspension set-ups - there are so many opinions on what is Firm, what is bouncy, what is comfortable. You simply can't get and accurate report because you're interpretation of these things will be different to someone else's.

[curtis265]

I basically just want to lower my ride by a bit. Thought that Koni would have been the best bet, doesn't seem like it now. Guess Tein Basis it is. Would have loved the Tein CST which are said to be more comfortable, but they cost way too much.

Suspension/ride quality is a function of somebody's expectations, only people who have driven the same car with many suspension setups will be able to give you an unbaised opinion

but just so you know, nothing will be more comfortable than stock, if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of that, go for konis

lowered springs will give a harder ride (i think... right senna?)

[tonysalib]

I basically just want to lower my ride by a bit. Thought that Koni would have been the best bet, doesn't seem like it now. Guess Tein Basis it is. Would have loved the Tein CST which are said to be more comfortable, but they cost way too much.

If you don't want to lower your car by much (30 mm or so) then just upgrading the springs and keeping the stock shocks might be the way to go. I know a lot of people here will go on about how its such a bad idea to lower a car on stock shocks and to do it right first time and get coilovers and all that, but honestly if you're not going that low, don't track your car, and drive sensibly on the road then you're not really going to wear out your shocks that much with just a small drop.

If the whole why reason you're lowering your car is for looks and less body roll but you want minimum change in ride quality from stock then just going for a reputable brand of after market springs with your stock shocks might be your best option.

I have Tein S.Tech springs on stock shocks on my CL9 and the first time I drove it out of Wholesale suspension after fitting them I could not even notice a difference in ride quality.

[curtis265]

IIRC, senna once said

lowered springs on stock shocks is fine,

lowered springs on old stock shocks isn't

[senna]

Yes, thats fine as long as you are reasonable with the height adjustment - if you want to drop the car 3" and expect a good ride then it doesn't really matter what shock you put in there, you will have no bump travel.

1"-1.5" is perfectly fine for use on Koni's, Bilsteins or even stock shocks to a certain extent

[SPQR]

you are correct, but IMO for konis to be too stiff you'd have to be driving on the edges of severe ruts - 10-20mm undulations which i know do exist but rarely (where i live anyway)

oh and i really wouldn't try upgrade suspension to go faster on normal roads, i do it to control body roll around roundabouts and give a more confident feeling through high radius bends

you just can't get that stock

Perth is blessed with sand. One of the best materials to build on. Relatively stable, doesn't 'heave' and drains water. Not so most other Oz cities where clay type soils play havoc with roads and houses. Adelaide, I think, is the worst with it's 'Bay of Biscay' reactive soils. Brisbane is built mostly on a swampy floodplain. Darwin has soft and hard rocky out-crops with a fair bit of clay soils. Some of the roads I have to travel on are well in excess of the 10-20mm undulations you speak of. I'd class that sort of undulation as a smooth road (lol).

Everyone has different ideas of what is a 'suspension upgrade'. Mine is the opposite of most here present.

[curtis265]

you're correct about the sand, however the pavement engineers are supposed to design a thick enough sub base and basecourse layer of an appropriate material to allow for any deficiencies in the stability of the natural surface, and provide sufficient drainage - the most important factor of pavement design.

obviously they've done it wrong

[SPQR]

you're correct about the sand, however the pavement engineers are supposed to design a thick enough sub base and basecourse layer of an appropriate material to allow for any deficiencies in the stability of the natural surface, and provide sufficient drainage - the most important factor of pavement design.

obviously they've done it wrong

As best they can within budget. NT Government is a poor jurisdiction because it's populaton is so spread out and 35% are indigenous who are very disadvantaged. The tax dollar is spread very thin. Plus there are certain minerals for which the royalties go straight to the Commonwealth government; unlike the states.

[curtis265]

most pavements are specified with a 40 year life

and since you mention badly spread tax dollars... look at the cash cow state i live in lmzo

[ChaosMaster]

Can anyone find the spring rates (or at least the max and min) for the Eibach springs? Seems like their progressive, but that's about all the info Eibach will give.

[EKVTIR-T]

Can anyone find the spring rates (or at least the max and min) for the Eibach springs? Seems like their progressive, but that's about all the info Eibach will give.

Eibach Pro-kit - (1)308F/131R (2)371F/217R

[ChaosMaster]

Thanks. That in LB/Inches? Anyone know what that is in kg/mm?