why upgrade brakes

[gnx1987]

Unless you're taking your car to the track what is the point of upgrading your brakes say if you had an ek4 and you put a k20a in it. I hardly think what ever weight difference the engines have are going to make a difference to how quickly your car will stop, when having an extra passenger makes near zero difference too. If you've got two identical cars, one with 160hp and one with 200hp and they're both doing 100kph and they both jam on the brakes, how is the one with more hp going to have more difficulty stopping? The only reason I could see it making a difference is if you illegally dragged off at the lights, the one with more power would get to a higher speed quicker and if they both had to stop all of a sudden it would obviously need to slow down quicker. Is that it?:(

[NeedVtec]

Legal requirements.

[JohnO]

so youre saying if you do a kswap and youre using ek standard brakes its okay?

[tiksie]

are you serious man ? wtf.

[void-]

is this **** for real?

dude are you being srs?

honestly??

my mind right now hurts...

its hurts

mind=exfoliated

[NeedVtec]

so youre saying if you do a kswap and youre using ek standard brakes its okay?

you dont even know

i did ls1 swap on civic, using standards brakes. drums in the rear. all is okay.

[EKVTIR-T]

I see what he means in a way as far as both slowing down from the same speeds etc.

[Vvvtec]

I want race car brakes because they enlargen my e-penis

[curtis265]

basically yes you're right.. you're capable of achieving higher speeds and need the brakes to suit

you don't see HSV's with drum brakes do you (althoug that's a bit different given the different masses)

[gnx1987]

Love the mockery without the rebuttal to my reasoning. Also find it amusing that they seem surprised a probably dumb question was asked in the noob forum

[gnx1987]

so youre saying if you do a kswap and youre using ek standard brakes its okay?

Well as the example has 4 wheel discs....

[Vvvtec]

Love the mockery without the rebuttal to my reasoning. Also find it amusing that they seem surprised a probably dumb question was asked in the noob forum

Don't take it personally man

Your reasoning is correct, as Curtis's reply

Don't qoute me on this either, but I swear I read something a while back about if you're increasing discplacement significantly you must also increase braking power to suit the increased power to have it pass engineering/rego, ie: D13 - K24 etc. No idea if that's the case, or which state it applies to if it is indeed true.

[gnx1987]

Don't worry. Not taking personally. I honestly find it amusing

[curtis265]

Don't take it personally man

anonymously?
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar30053_22.gif

[Vvvtec]

welcome abourd

[gnx1987]

basically yes you're right.. you're capable of achieving higher speeds and need the brakes to suit

you don't see HSV's with drum brakes do you (althoug that's a bit different given the different masses)

But that's just it isn't it. bigger mass is what needs bigger brakes. hsv's also have bigger brakes in the off chance the owner does want to take it to the track. you're not going to buy a hsv to take to the track if it's got the stock commo brakes

[NeedVtec]

Owners of engine swapped cars may want to go track, hence bigger brakes.

bigger brakes = better braking performance = safe

legal requirements as i've mentioned,

ie. In Melbourne to get an engineering cert. for an engine swapped car you will at least need the brakes off the car the engine came from if im not mistaken.

[curtis265]

But that's just it isn't it. bigger mass is what needs bigger brakes. hsv's also have bigger brakes in the off chance the owner does want to take it to the track. you're not going to buy a hsv to take to the track if it's got the stock commo brakes

I'm starting to think t here might be some kind of specification binding the 0-100 acceleration distance to the 100-0 braking distance

[Bludger]

basically yes you're right.. you're capable of achieving higher speeds and need the brakes to suit

you don't see HSV's with drum brakes do you (althoug that's a bit different given the different masses)
what do you see as the main shortfall of drums?


Don't take it personally man

Your reasoning is correct, as Curtis's reply

Don't qoute me on this either, but I swear I read something a while back about if you're increasing discplacement significantly you must also increase braking power to suit the increased power to have it pass engineering/rego, ie: D13 - K24 etc. No idea if that's the case, or which state it applies to if it is indeed true.
engine swap greatly increases the rate of acceleration, need to increase rate of decel too.


is this **** for real?

dude are you being srs?

honestly??

my mind right now hurts...

its hurts

mind=exfoliated
you were just copying what tiksie said.

gtfo.


But that's just it isn't it. bigger mass is what needs bigger brakes. hsv's also have bigger brakes in the off chance the owner does want to take it to the track. you're not going to buy a hsv to take to the track if it's got the stock commo brakes
speed, mass, inertia, laws of physics, etc.


Owners of engine swapped cars may want to go track, hence bigger brakes.

bigger brakes = better braking performance = safe

legal requirements as i've mentioned,

ie. In Melbourne to get an engineering cert. for an engine swapped car you will at least need the brakes off the car the engine came from if im not mistaken.
that ed9 with b18c type r motor that hovers around my life, now that is a bit scary on the roads....

normal driving is fine, but the legal uprated to 262mm disks is still very scary to stop with motor feels way overpowering for the brakes.

driving the dc2r on the other hand, motor is stock, brakes are like hitting a brick wall. the feel, poise, easy of which and how you slow down, nothing makes you feel safer.

so in the end, keep it legal and if your driving habit asks for more, then do an upgrade.

[mocchi]

But that's just it isn't it. bigger mass is what needs bigger brakes. hsv's also have bigger brakes in the off chance the owner does want to take it to the track. you're not going to buy a hsv to take to the track if it's got the stock commo brakes

you would need more stopping power to balance the power:weight ratio after an engine swap

why?
because when one does an engine swap, he or she will have major tendency to accelerate hard
this means more kinetic energy stored in the car in shorter period of time
so you need bigger brakes to stop at lower stopping distance by converting this kinetic energy to heat.

dont focus too much on the brakes, most importantly is to upgrade tires. imagine having ling longs after you upgrade to 280 itr brakes.
skid the moment you hit the brakes

inb4 get fkd m8

[gnx1987]

Yeah I spose I didn't think about my question too well. I was thinking if you're not taking it to the track, what's the point of upgraded brakes. Because unless you're speeding on the street, which you shouldn't be doing cause it's illegal, you don't need them. But then what's the point of point of significantly modifying the power of your car.



dont focus too much on the brakes, most importantly is to upgrade tires. imagine having ling longs after you upgrade to 280 itr brakes.
skid the moment you hit the brakes


you know it.

[butterfingers]

the above arguments are all correct and that.

but iirc, a 300kW car and a 80kW car with the same mass coasting at the same speed, will have the same momentum and therefore require the same amount of stopping power.

this is assuming you take your foot off the gas when you brake. But ofcourse you dont have to... then you would need a brake upgrade.

[Bludger]

you guys looking at it from the wrong perspective.

remember the turtle and hare? what we're taught in school.

theoretically, hare can never win, but in real life, yes.

same with the brakes, in theory sound good, but try real life.

[curtis265]

Yeah I spose I didn't think about my question too well. I was thinking if you're not taking it to the track, what's the point of upgraded brakes. Because unless you're speeding on the street, which you shouldn't be doing cause it's illegal, you don't need them. But then what's the point of point of significantly modifying the power of your car.


you know it.

You're right, but then if they were only for street, then the HSV as a mentioned before would only have regular commie brakes. as part of a safety factor the law's making you upgrade the brakes

[butterfingers]

not saying better brakes wouldnt be beneficial.

[dougie_504]

I think a 262mm front setup would suffice for a K20-swapped EK4. Good tyres and suitable pads you will be fine in terms of stopping power/weight. I doubt they'd require you to go 282mm from 262mm.

Track is another story. Need to consider operating temperatures/brake fade, stopping power etc.

[gnx1987]

You're right, but then if they were only for street, then the HSV as a mentioned before would only have regular commie brakes. as part of a safety factor the law's making you upgrade the brakes

But then if the HSV had stock brakes it would look rate ghey. Like when you see a poverty pack lancer (or any small car really) with those tiny drums in the back while it's wearing 18's.

[EKVTIR-T]

Arent we forgetting touge runs :zip:

You know these kswappers run the touge and need that bbk setup

[Rayle]

It's about the acceleration potential you gain from the swapped motor. The new engine will provide a greater rate of acceleration than your old one, so think about this scenario:

You turn down a side street and go WOT, when you see some drunk wandering across the road, oblivious to your oncoming car. You slam on the stock brakes, and you're only travelling at 40km/h, but because you were accelerating so fast, it takes longer for your car to reach a neutral state (no acceleration or deceleration) before it can begin to decelerate. Maybe you hit him at 20km/h and break his legs.

If you had upgraded your stock brakes, then you would be able to decelerate at a much faster rate despite previously accelerating at the same speed, reducing your braking distance and hopefully stopping just before the drunk.

I know this sounds like a TAC ad, but this is probably how the RTA/vicroads/whoever see it and therefore require brake upgrades if you do certain things to your engine.

TL;DR: upgraded brakes allow you to decelerate faster, meaning that if you're accelerating hard and then have to perform an emergency stop, it will allow you to better avoid the drunk.

[xridox]

^^ lol seen any TAC ads lately?? Wipe off 5 guys!!

Also need to consider extra weight of engine and other parts as well. Bigger engine and box, fatter driveshafts, different subframe in some cases etc.. More weight at the front so need bigger brakes to handle that change.

Even weight transfer can make a difference in braking distance.

Running stock suspension and brakes with k24 in eg breeze. Same speed or not, braking distance will change!

[connorling]

Unless you're taking your car to the track what is the point of upgrading your brakes say if you had an ek4 and you put a k20a in it. I hardly think what ever weight difference the engines have are going to make a difference to how quickly your car will stop, when having an extra passenger makes near zero difference too. If you've got two identical cars, one with 160hp and one with 200hp and they're both doing 100kph and they both jam on the brakes, how is the one with more hp going to have more difficulty stopping? The only reason I could see it making a difference is if you illegally dragged off at the lights, the one with more power would get to a higher speed quicker and if they both had to stop all of a sudden it would obviously need to slow down quicker. Is that it?:(


2 cases here:

case 1: 2 cars doing 100km/h, and brake at the same time

F=m*a (F=Force; m= mass; a= acceleration)
=> F(force required to decelerate)=m*(-a)
=> if mass increase, required force to decelerate increase in order to achieve the same deceleration (-a)

case 2:
comparing two cars one with more hp than others

since acceleration (a) = (v-u)/t ; you are assuming draging off the light, u=0km/h; cause (a) to increase, in turns (v) will increase.

and kinetic energy = energy due to motion = 0.5*m*v^2

(v) increase, kinetic energy increase mean you need more energy to stop the car. so yes, if you have more hp, u accelerate faster in turns u need more energy to stop hence bigger brakes.

[90LAN]

for your safety and others around you when your driving
if you believe you dont need bigger brakes then just drive your car in that state

but you should never over look your brakes

[gnx1987]

I know the importance of having better brakes, but as far as the safety of road use goes it's under the assumption you're going to be doing something illegal. ie heavy and unnecessary acceleration or reckless driving.

[tripleuse]

Unless you're taking your car to the track what is the point of upgrading your brakes say if you had an ek4 and you put a k20a in it. I hardly think what ever weight difference the engines have are going to make a difference to how quickly your car will stop, when having an extra passenger makes near zero difference too. If you've got two identical cars, one with 160hp and one with 200hp and they're both doing 100kph and they both jam on the brakes, how is the one with more hp going to have more difficulty stopping? The only reason I could see it making a difference is if you illegally dragged off at the lights, the one with more power would get to a higher speed quicker and if they both had to stop all of a sudden it would obviously need to slow down quicker. Is that it?:(

please, just dont do the conversion, you're obviously a ****ing retard.

[mocchi]

I know the importance of having better brakes, but as far as the safety of road use goes it's under the assumption you're going to be doing something illegal. ie heavy and unnecessary acceleration or reckless driving.

well thats true, but if you think like that
then its the same with doing a k24 swap on ed/ef, and take out all braking system.

cut a hole on floor pan and brake with your feet or shoe sole.00
same logic but sounds stupid doesnt it.

[gnx1987]

well thats true, but if you think like that
then its the same with doing a k24 swap on ed/ef, and take out all braking system.

cut a hole on floor pan and brake with your feet or shoe sole.00
same logic but sounds stupid doesnt it.

not really. cause that would just be making the braking completely inadequate.

I'm not denying the importance of brakes but I suppose I've gotten too caught up on the type of car needing the brake upgrade.

I figure something like an ek4 with 4 wheel disc brakes wouldn't need a brake upgrade after a k20a conversion but i suppose something like a basic ed civic would need one

[gnx1987]

please, just dont do the conversion, you're obviously a ****ing retard.

oh really? explain how.

[curtis265]

I know the importance of having better brakes, but as far as the safety of road use goes it's under the assumption you're going to be doing something illegal. ie heavy and unnecessary acceleration or reckless driving.

that's wrong to think like that.

speed limits for example, are set low because they know people will always exceed them

design speed for a road are always higher than the speed limit for an additional safety factor

questiong the need to upgrade brakes is liek questioning the need for posted speed limits

[e240]

cause skinny brakes in big wheels look odd.

[connorling]

not really. cause that would just be making the braking completely inadequate.

I'm not denying the importance of brakes but I suppose I've gotten too caught up on the type of car needing the brake upgrade.

I figure something like an ek4 with 4 wheel disc brakes wouldn't need a brake upgrade after a k20a conversion but i suppose something like a basic ed civic would need one

ek4 has b16a (160hp), k20a is around 210hp or so, thats 50hp increase, and its roughtly 35% increase in power.

"NSW law actually requires that brakes be upgraded when engine power is increased by more than 15%, and an engineer's certificate must be provided as proof of adequate braking power." quoted from an sticky post
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?41413-New-to-modifying-your-car-see-here

even you might not from NSW, but there is a requirement for it from one states, means it is important enough for you and other road use sake to have brakes upgrades for the extra power you gain

[gnx1987]

ek4 has b16a (160hp), k20a is around 210hp or so, thats 50hp increase, and its roughtly 35% increase in power.

"NSW law actually requires that brakes be upgraded when engine power is increased by more than 15%, and an engineer's certificate must be provided as proof of adequate braking power." quoted from an sticky post
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?41413-New-to-modifying-your-car-see-here

even you might not from NSW, but there is a requirement for it from one states, means it is important enough for you and other road use sake to have brakes upgrades for the extra power you gain

if there was logic in laws we wouldn't be getting a carbon tax

[gnx1987]

that's wrong to think like that.

speed limits for example, are set low because they know people will always exceed them

design speed for a road are always higher than the speed limit for an additional safety factor

questiong the need to upgrade brakes is liek questioning the need for posted speed limits

actually they're set low because most drivers have very basic driving skills.

not really. the need for speed limits is obvious. most people don't know the capabilities of their car and or are shit at driving and need to be told. questioning the need to upgrade the brakes on a street used car, is like questioning the need to put a scope on a pistol to improve accuracy. the logic doesn't make sense.

let's break it down. two identical cars with identical drivers one with 160hp the other with 200hp traveling at 60 kph. pedestrian steps out onto the road and both drivers jam on the brakes. will the more powerful one take longer to stop? I think not.

the only thing wrong with my logic is why would you make the car more powerful unless you were going to use it in which case you would need to upgrade the brakes.

[JohnO]

Why don't you ask the coppers on their thoughts?

[DreadAngel]

actually they're set low because most drivers have very basic driving skills.

not really. the need for speed limits is obvious. most people don't know the capabilities of their car and or are shit at driving and need to be told. questioning the need to upgrade the brakes on a street used car, is like questioning the need to put a scope on a pistol to improve accuracy. the logic doesn't make sense.

let's break it down. two identical cars with identical drivers one with 160hp the other with 200hp traveling at 60 kph. pedestrian steps out onto the road and both drivers jam on the brakes. will the more powerful one take longer to stop? I think not.

the only thing wrong with my logic is why would you make the car more powerful unless you were going to use it in which case you would need to upgrade the brakes.

If we only look at your case and therefore your logic ie braking from a constant speed, the only logical reason having upgraded brakes is to offset the increase in frontal weight.

HOWEVER - That's such a specific case that basically works for your argument its kinda silly to expect the rest of us to provide you a justification for a brake upgrade for just your scenario.

A proper scenario would view it from multiple angles. So under acceleration, constant low speed, constant high speed, etc would be the logical scenario to look at so when you view it from a broader more logical perspective, why wouldn't you upgrade your brakes to support the increased power, torque, acceleration, speed and sometimes weight.

[connorling]

actually they're set low because most drivers have very basic driving skills.

not really. the need for speed limits is obvious. most people don't know the capabilities of their car and or are shit at driving and need to be told. questioning the need to upgrade the brakes on a street used car, is like questioning the need to put a scope on a pistol to improve accuracy. the logic doesn't make sense.

let's break it down. two identical cars with identical drivers one with 160hp the other with 200hp traveling at 60 kph. pedestrian steps out onto the road and both drivers jam on the brakes. will the more powerful one take longer to stop? I think not.

the only thing wrong with my logic is why would you make the car more powerful unless you were going to use it in which case you would need to upgrade the brakes.

how often you are racing with other car at a constant speed? most of the time (on the road) you use ur full braking force when you are accelerating then suddenly brake, like i said before, the kinetic energy is greater as you accelerate, and the faster you accelerate, ie: more hp, then you have more kinetic energy, therefore require more force to brake.

how stubborn do you have to be to think upgrading ur brake for street use after 35% increase in hp is not necessary?

at the end of the day, getting a better brake pads will cost you ~$250 if you fit it urself.
$250 will decrease your risk of crashing, then why not?

[tripleuse]

oh really? explain how.

this thread explained how.

[curtis265]

actually they're set low because most drivers have very basic driving skills.

not really. the need for speed limits is obvious. most people don't know the capabilities of their car and or are shit at driving and need to be told. questioning the need to upgrade the brakes on a street used car, is like questioning the need to put a scope on a pistol to improve accuracy. the logic doesn't make sense.

let's break it down. two identical cars with identical drivers one with 160hp the other with 200hp traveling at 60 kph. pedestrian steps out onto the road and both drivers jam on the brakes. will the more powerful one take longer to stop? I think not.

the only thing wrong with my logic is why would you make the car more powerful unless you were going to use it in which case you would need to upgrade the brakes.

erm, no, sometimes the road features are such that speed limits are set in place. I'm talking about road curvature in my particular example. A speed limit is set so that you are able to achieve a safe stopping distance before hitting a random object on the road.. The speed limit is set low knowing that there will be the whatever% that does exceed the speed limit.

Similarly to the swapping engines, you need to upgrade the brakes because they know that the engine will be pushed, and if you are pushing it from the lights (overtaking for exmaple), you'd be achieving faster speeds earlier than you would have before, hence the need for bigger brakes

it's called a safety factor


imagine this: a light turns green and u take off with WOT. 4 seconds later a kangaroo jumps out and you brake as hard as you can. On a stock engine you would have reached say 50 km/h (d13), but in your new engine (jdm d15b) you would have reached 80.

Your car (in this example) has 256% more kinetic energy than it did before and you'd need 2.56x the heat capacity of the brakes in order for you to stop

[e240]

At the end of the day, your brakes are as good as your tyres.

[butterfingers]

It's about the acceleration potential you gain from the swapped motor. The new engine will provide a greater rate of acceleration than your old one, so think about this scenario:

You turn down a side street and go WOT, when you see some drunk wandering across the road, oblivious to your oncoming car. You slam on the stock brakes, and you're only travelling at 40km/h, but because you were accelerating so fast, it takes longer for your car to reach a neutral state (no acceleration or deceleration) before it can begin to decelerate. Maybe you hit him at 20km/h and break his legs.

If you had upgraded your stock brakes, then you would be able to decelerate at a much faster rate despite previously accelerating at the same speed, reducing your braking distance and hopefully stopping just before the drunk.

I know this sounds like a TAC ad, but this is probably how the RTA/vicroads/whoever see it and therefore require brake upgrades if you do certain things to your engine.

TL;DR: upgraded brakes allow you to decelerate faster, meaning that if you're accelerating hard and then have to perform an emergency stop, it will allow you to better avoid the drunk.

no. 0-40 in 1 second and 0-40 in 3 seconds on a car with the same mass has the same kinteic energy.

why?

when you hit the brakes you are no longer accelerating, no torque being put to the ground, therefore the car is only being carried by its momentum/intertia.

a 300kw 1200kg car will have the same momentum as a 80kw 1200kg car when coasting at 40kmh, regardless of the rate of acceleration.

All this wrong information coming from a bunch of "car enthusiasts". Lol even my gf knows this...

[gnx1987]

this thread explained how.

elaborate

[gnx1987]

erm, no, sometimes the road features are such that speed limits are set in place. I'm talking about road curvature in my particular example. A speed limit is set so that you are able to achieve a safe stopping distance before hitting a random object on the road.. The speed limit is set low knowing that there will be the whatever% that does exceed the speed limit.

Similarly to the swapping engines, you need to upgrade the brakes because they know that the engine will be pushed, and if you are pushing it from the lights (overtaking for exmaple), you'd be achieving faster speeds earlier than you would have before, hence the need for bigger brakes

it's called a safety factor


imagine this: a light turns green and u take off with WOT. 4 seconds later a kangaroo jumps out and you brake as hard as you can. On a stock engine you would have reached say 50 km/h (d13), but in your new engine (jdm d15b) you would have reached 80.

Your car (in this example) has 256% more kinetic energy than it did before and you'd need 2.56x the heat capacity of the brakes in order for you to stop

For your first point. What if your doing 100k's on the highway and a kangaroo jumps out 50 metres in front of you. Your stuffed. So by your logic the speed should probably be about 30 kph on the highway.

For your second I already covered that in my last sentence.

[gnx1987]

If we only look at your case and therefore your logic ie braking from a constant speed, the only logical reason having upgraded brakes is to offset the increase in frontal weight.

HOWEVER - That's such a specific case that basically works for your argument its kinda silly to expect the rest of us to provide you a justification for a brake upgrade for just your scenario.

A proper scenario would view it from multiple angles. So under acceleration, constant low speed, constant high speed, etc would be the logical scenario to look at so when you view it from a broader more logical perspective, why wouldn't you upgrade your brakes to support the increased power, torque, acceleration, speed and sometimes weight.

see my last sentence you quoted

[gnx1987]

how often you are racing with other car at a constant speed? most of the time (on the road) you use ur full braking force when you are accelerating then suddenly brake, like i said before, the kinetic energy is greater as you accelerate, and the faster you accelerate, ie: more hp, then you have more kinetic energy, therefore require more force to brake.

how stubborn do you have to be to think upgrading ur brake for street use after 35% increase in hp is not necessary?

at the end of the day, getting a better brake pads will cost you ~$250 if you fit it urself.
$250 will decrease your risk of crashing, then why not?

duh, duh, duh. didn't you read the last sentence you quoted me on.

I wouldn't consider getting better pads much of an brake upgrade.

[gnx1987]

Just so everyone knows, I know that a more powerful car will reach a higher speed in the same amount of time than a less powerful car therefore needing better brakes than the less powerful car if it is to stop in a similar amount of distance.

[DreadAngel]

see my last sentence you quoted

I missed it... I'm assuming you're talking about:


the only thing wrong with my logic is why would you make the car more powerful unless you were going to use it in which case you would need to upgrade the brakes.

If so, why does anyone modify their cars? Show? Competition? Standout? Individualism? Or simply for fun? Everyone has their own agenda on modifying their cars. It can come down to more is better no?

For me, I modify my car cause that's what I like doing... Its for my own pleasure and experience =)

I don't go out that much or often and I don't blow most of my pay cheque on food, drinks or partying. Working on my car is how I enjoy my life. Gotta have some pleasures in life right? Well that's mine ;)

FYI - If the rest of your brake's hardware is up to par and just your factory pads are too 'soft', a change in pads makes a massive difference cause your stopping power highly dependent on the pad's characteristics. You can have 16pot calipers but if the brake compound is very mild/soft, your actual braking power won't increase by that much. Not entirely accurate I know, I've posted in here somewhere more about just pads alone but its some food for thought.

[gnx1987]

I missed it... I'm assuming you're talking about:



If so, why does anyone modify their cars? Show? Competition? Standout? Individualism? Or simply for fun? Everyone has their own agenda on modifying their cars. It can come down to more is better no?

For me, I modify my car cause that's what I like doing... Its for my own pleasure and experience =)

I don't go out that much or often and I don't blow most of my pay cheque on food, drinks or partying. Working on my car is how I enjoy my life. Gotta have some pleasures in life right? Well that's mine ;)

FYI - If the rest of your brake's hardware is up to par and just your factory pads are too 'soft', a change in pads makes a massive difference cause your stopping power highly dependent on the pad's characteristics. You can have 16pot calipers but if the brake compound is very mild/soft, your actual braking power won't increase by that much. Not entirely accurate I know, I've posted in here somewhere more about just pads alone but its some food for thought.

very good

[curtis265]

For your first point. What if your doing 100k's on the highway and a kangaroo jumps out 50 metres in front of you. Your stuffed. So by your logic the speed should probably be about 30 kph on the highway.

no amount of safety factor can prevent that, that's just bad luck. Even if you are doing 30, a kangaroo can still jump and land on your car (happened to a mate), so speed limits are chosen for foreseeable circumstances. There are only some things one can design for. A building can't be designed to last 1000 years, neither can a road speed be designed to protect you from your 50m kangaroo.

it's to protect you from yourself rather than the environment



oh and pads are a good upgrade, bbk's are unnecessary,

[trism]

I really can't understand how this thread dragged out for so long.

The answer to the question is so simple.

The law regarding modified cars requires it.

No arguing about doesn't matter what motor is has in it when both cars are doing 100kmh etc.

The law says its required, so you do it.

[amant02]

Mate it all comes down to, how much do you value your life?

There are laws in place to protect life on the roads... Have you ever felt the difference between a stock eg3 brakes to a 5 stud conversion (complete) .... When i did my b18c conversion on the eg wit normal breaks, I wasn't able to push the car to its limits, simply didnt have the balls to do it. Just the feeling i got from the car, after the 5stud conversion i didnt have any problems sitting at 8K rpms around corners. Sometimes it felt like i was over breaking other cars behind me lol

[mocchi]

The law says its required, so













































http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar11984_20.gif

[Bludger]

The law says its required, so













































http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar11984_20.gif
troll thread.

http://s13.postimage.org/j8e21pbaf/tumblr_m30o2xo_GVP1qbalij.gif

[Drifter995]

I still struggle to comprehend how larger brakes and bigger callipers will slow down a car faster than the smaller ones, when in theory, it'd cause them to lock up faster... I know that it will help braking, I just can't logic it in my mind... My mind is just, over there... in the corner, chewing a lolipop...

[butterfingers]

^^would you care to share one?

[Drifter995]

^^would you care to share one?

If you want, lol

[amant02]

Whats so hard to understand about larger surface areas?

[Drifter995]

Whats so hard to understand about larger surface areas?

Lots apparently...
I mean, I understand, I just can't put the thought into words.. if that makes any cents... >.>

[Indie]

But that's just it isn't it. bigger mass is what needs bigger brakes. hsv's also have bigger brakes in the off chance the owner does want to take it to the track. you're not going to buy a hsv to take to the track if it's got the stock commo brakesThe faster a car is capable of going, the more stopping power it needs to bring it back down to a dead stop from its top speed. A higher top speed will require better brakes. A higher top speed is achieved through power, not weight.

Stop being 'amused' by people's reactions to your question, and just actually listen to what they're saying.

[amant02]

Quick DIY Experiment to understand bigger breaks,

Get a drill, turn it on and make it spin now try stopping it your dumb and index finger then try again with with your palm... which was easier?


If it hurts let go! Im not responsible for your dumbness.

[Drifter995]

Quick DIY Experiment to understand bigger breaks,

Get a drill, turn it on and make it spin now try stopping it your dumb and index finger then try again with with your palm... which was easier?


If it hurts let go! Im not responsible for your dumbness.

I don't know how, but that helped me think of how it works... derp to me.

[curtis265]

I don't know how, but that helped me think of how it works... derp to me.

bigger brakes allow for a higher braking torque, (think of using a breaker bar instead of a small spanner)

they also allow for more heat capacity of the rotors (more mass of steel) and a better distribution of braking force throughout a brake pad (even wear and even heat distribution) so the pad will be fully utilised before fading

hope that helps

[Evok]

Just safety and keep your car in one piece

[connorling]

I can't believe this topic can be dragged On for this long...... Don't ask if u don't want to believe bigger brakes will help if u have 35% more power, given the tyres can take it.

Gees.......

[mocchi]

I can't believe this topic can be dragged On for this long...... Don't ask if u don't want to believe bigger brakes will help if u have 35% more power, given the tyres can take it.

Gees.......

listen here mate. i cant believe this thread has dragged for too long
he should not have asked if he didn't want to believe bigger brakes will help if you have 35% more power, given the tyres can take it.

isn't it?

http://im.videosearch.rediff.com/thumbImage/videoImages/videoImages1/youtube/rdhash195/3-FvEhOPc6g.gif

[Bludger]

http://im.videosearch.rediff.com/thumbImage/videoImages/videoImages1/youtube/rdhash195/3-FvEhOPc6g.gif
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk238/fastlikeme/Reaction/gifface250.gif

[butterfingers]

Quick DIY Experiment to understand bigger breaks,

Get a drill, turn it on and make it spin now try stopping it your dumb and index finger then try again with with your palm... which was easier?


If it hurts let go! Im not responsible for your dumbness.

that would assume your accelerating and braking at the same time..

[mytfoz]

LOLs pure common sense.

[gnx1987]

I still struggle to comprehend how larger brakes and bigger callipers will slow down a car faster than the smaller ones, when in theory, it'd cause them to lock up faster... I know that it will help braking, I just can't logic it in my mind... My mind is just, over there... in the corner, chewing a lolipop...

That's when you need tyres with better grip

[gnx1987]

I really can't understand how this thread dragged out for so long.

It doesn't help when people think I don't know that better brakes will stop a car quicker when that's not even the question. And your right, if it's the law then that's all I need for an answer.

Something to think about for everyone though. If you got all the current mass produced cars and put them in a situation where they all had to accelerate hard for 5 seconds, would they all stop in the same amount of time and or overall distance (from start of acceleration to stop) (also this is not a go to woah, in a go to woah they all have to finish in the same spot and it's the et that counts).

[trism]

But isn't it a given that if you're putting in a more powerful motor, or turboing, you like to drive hard, and therefore are going to not cheap out on tires anyway?

[Troy]

But isn't it a given that if you're putting in a more powerful motor, or turboing, you like to drive hard, and therefore are going to not cheap out on tires anyway?

Sadly not a given for everyone.

[GU357]

srry if this has been asked before, but what about rear brakes?
for instance i was to swap my l15a jazz engine out for a k20, i would imagine i would require bigger brakes because knowing i had the k20 would encourage me to drive more spiritidly.
so i would need brakes the equivalent of a DC5 but even the back ones? since the rear handles such a small amount of braking force.

[curtis265]

srry if this has been asked before, but what about rear brakes?
for instance i was to swap my l15a jazz engine out for a k20, i would imagine i would require bigger brakes because knowing i had the k20 would encourage me to drive more spiritidly.
so i would need brakes the equivalent of a DC5 but even the back ones? since the rear handles such a small amount of braking force.

yeah brah brakes need to be upgraded evenly - some people get big brake kits and can still achieve poorer braking distance because there's too much front bias. I think it overloads and slips the front before the rears have fully utilised their traction if that makes any sense.

[mugen_ctr]

yeah brah brakes need to be upgraded evenly - some people get big brake kits and can still achieve poorer braking distance because there's too much front bias. I think it overloads and slips the front before the rears have fully utilised their traction if that makes any sense.

And wouldnt u need to upgrade the brake prop or atleast invest in some sort of adjustable brake bias system if its gonna b full track car?

Well on ek civics, im running ITR front calipers and oem rear brakes an seems to pull up very well with the stock prop valve

[butterfingers]

srry if this has been asked before, but what about rear brakes?
for instance i was to swap my l15a jazz engine out for a k20, i would imagine i would require bigger brakes because knowing i had the k20 would encourage me to drive more spiritidly.
so i would need brakes the equivalent of a DC5 but even the back ones? since the rear handles such a small amount of braking force.

if you braked any harder the jazz would just tip over..

[trism]

if its drums swap to disc.

If it's already disc just put good pads in.

No need to up size

[tripleuse]

if you braked any harder the jazz would just tip over..


hahahahaha

[curtis265]

And wouldnt u need to upgrade the brake prop or atleast invest in some sort of adjustable brake bias system if its gonna b full track car?

Well on ek civics, im running ITR front calipers and oem rear brakes an seems to pull up very well with the stock prop valve

yess correct, but bias can also be adjusted by choosing the correct pads in the correct locations.. Depends on what you can be bothered with i suppose.


if its drums swap to disc.

If it's already disc just put good pads in.

No need to up size

yes that, something people need to learn IMO

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to trism again.

[GU357]

if you braked any harder the jazz would just tip over..

a horse has a higher tip over rate then a jazz.

and plus its lowered to shift the center of weight

[butterfingers]

a horse has a higher tip over rate then a jazz.

and plus its lowered to shift the center of weight

i see you drive a jazz which pertains to why you reacted so defensively.

I dont hyave a horse i have an alligator now, very low centre of gravity

[curtis265]

i ride a beaver

[butterfingers]

your vehicle will repeatedly wrap you around trees...

[curtis265]

not that kinda beaver

[butterfingers]

how long can you hold vtec for in your beaver?

[curtis265]

about 10 seconds, but it takes ages to get there, needs a lot of patience

[butterfingers]

alot of lag to wind that beaver up before vtec kicks in aye. do the recaros hold you in nice and tight?

[Bludger]

alot of lag to wind that beaver up before vtec kicks in aye. do the recaros hold you in nice and tight?
pm sent

[EKVTIR-T]

if you braked any harder the jazz would just tip over..
and if you had a clue about the jazz chassis you would know thats false

when youre so full of bullshit its best to keep your mouth closed

[butterfingers]

but i choose not to.

[EKVTIR-T]

but i choose not to.
Then continue on your way to oblivion :)

[butterfingers]

its cute seeing you get worked up over a sarcastic comment about the jazz

[EKVTIR-T]

Worked up? lol butterfingers pls

Dont make me laugh

[Bludger]

its cute seeing you get worked up over a sarcastic comment about the jazz
you don't pull it off well imo.

[butterfingers]

Worked up? lol butterfingers pls

Dont make me laugh

yu prefer to frown then?

[curtis265]

butterfingers y u only got 1 rep dot now?

did these mean people take it away from you?

[butterfingers]

ive only ever had one rep dot i believe.

[gnx1987]

it wasn't sarcasm, it was an exaggeration. I know it's hard to spot emotion and intent on the internet sometimes but that was blatantly obvious

[Drifter995]

It kinda was.... >.>
I got a chuckle from it

[tiksie]

Go drive a 200kw EG Breeze with standard brakes and drive one with bigger/better brakes and see the difference.

Asking for opinions and shrugging them off is retarded.

Don't ask a question if you can't handle the truth.


inb4youcan'thandlethetruthgif

[amant02]

I thought all modern day chassis were designed to be impossible to flip over? (least for normal road use) Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Apparently A class in the merc range use this as a sales tactic. (Impossible to flip)

Just follow the law, its there for a reason mate.

[Troy]

No such thing as impossible to flip. People still manage it on the roads anyway.

Anyone remember the competition that Mini held when they first released the original Mini?