EG Drive Shaft Issue

[Paddy Honda]

Help, I have spent the last few days searching the web and all the forums to try and come up with an answer.

My passanger side drive shaft came out of the inner cup. Thats a travel of at least 20mm for the bearings to leave the end of the cup so either the engine has moved 20mm towards the drivers side or the drive shaft has moved this amount.
Below are pictures of a new shaft and cup I put in. Please note that the cup is about 10mm longer then the normal inner cup (I dont know what its from) so this would then give about 10mm more plunge depth for the shaft but you can see from the first photo that the bearings are someway out of the cup. This is with the car on a hoist with full droop. I have used a standard double orange drive shaft.

The second photo is when I have jacked up the wheel to try and get the shaft travel in the other direction. You can see at this it is just inside the cup.
Now I would expect that with the car just sitting on the gound, the bearings should be somewhere in the middle of the cup??

I've also been driven mad trying to work out the different shaft band colours and lengths. From checking numerous, I can confirm that the double orange/red, single blue and single white are all the same length.
The single brown (from EF I think) is short and the double pink (EF3??) is about 10mm longer than the double orange.

So does anyone know why the shaft would run so close to the end of the cup(even with the longer cup). What would cause this??
It is a rally car but I have used standard arms, standard camber and I have swapped the upper control arms to give some better castor.
I do have proflex coilovers and the car does have high ride height.

I can confirm that the steering lock side to side does not really effect the plundge of the shaft within the cup. A mm or 2 max.

Any help/advise please

[mytfoz]

no idea what the bands mean on driveshafts
are they the original shafts from the EG?
what engine is it?

[gen2 CRX]

Id say one of the parts are incorrect or incorrectly installed. Try to get a second hand shaft from an eg of the same model at the wrecker and try to install it. If you have no problem and the shaft is ok just leave it in there. Im not sure why you have a different outer cv or how you know its 10mm longer then the original or where you got it from to try and fix the issue??

[mytfoz]

thats what im trying to think aswell
maybe he see the shaft cups being longer than the stock one.

[hmetro24]

For me it loook kinda alright
where is the problem?
2nd where is the rubber boot and grease?
Do you have any problem with the car?
Get your self a new 1 or used driveshaft

[mocchi]

that looks like aftermarket driveshaft. stock honda doesnt have those plates on rollers
any particular reason for aftermarket driveshaft?

if its popping out then its too short dont you think?


btw i learnt something new thanks to your post.

http://i.imgur.com/qospO.gif

[Paddy Honda]

Ok, I'll answer all the above questions:

The engine is a standard B16A and I had a double orange band drive and standard size inner cup previously and this had the issue.

I then replaced the shaft and inner cup with another set from an EG and the same happened.

I know the new cup is 10mm longer beacause I measured it against the cup that was in there previously.

So the issue happened twice with the shorter standard cup with the standard EG drive shaft.

The problem is that on full droop, the bearings are past the end of the cup. If there is any additonal movement from this, then the bearings will come out of the cup again.

I just put in a dry, non greased cup and bearings so that I could see exactly where the bearings sat on full droop and when the wheel was jacked up.

[Paddy Honda]

The plates were used on some B series engines, not sure exactly what models but they are used on Civics and Integras. If you look in the car manual, there is even a diagram telling you how to install these bearings with the plate on the inside against the shaft. So they are stock cups and driveshafts.

Yes, if its popping out then the shaft is too short but how can that be since its a stock driveshaft. So its either that the engine is sitting incorrectly (dont think so) or the suspension/geometry is out on the passanger side. This is my questions.
There is nothing obvious that wrong.

Does anyone have the dimensions for the front sub frame so that I can measure gaps/distances to see if its bent.

I did change the lower control arm as that seemed bent but that hasnt changed it.

Does anyone know if jacking up the ride height will lengthen the travel of the driveshaft for sure??
I can confirm that lock to lock of the steering wheel really doesnt have any effect


that looks like aftermarket driveshaft. stock honda doesnt have those plates on rollers
any particular reason for aftermarket driveshaft?

if its popping out then its too short dont you think?


btw i learnt something new thanks to your post.

http://i.imgur.com/qospO.gif

[mocchi]

http://i50.tinypic.com/20hx0qt.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/ofq7ow.jpg

did you measure the length as per manual?
which manual did you see having those plates on the rollers?

ive disassembled stock eg/ek/dc driveshaft inner/outer joints and never see any plates like yours.
unless it might be from a different car?

[Paddy Honda]

Not fully sure how to upload the pdf but I've tried.
This is the manual showing the bearings with the collar.

If anyone has some of these I would like to buy them as I need some spares

[mocchi]

4wd? are you looking at eg/dc manual?
d16a9 engine, concerto?

i think youre trying to use driveshafts from other cars, trying to mix match
hence the issue.

i never see any driveshaft popping out from b16a swap in eg.
where does this engine come from?

are you trying to use driveshaft the donor engine?

[mocchi]

either way, did you measure the length of driveshaft like in manual?
i can measure my spare for you if you need it

my spare is from honda integra dc2r '99
i can measure it when fully compressed so we can compare

[ericl33]

I've had this problem.

My driveshafts have the plates too and I believe they are the stock oem shafts.

I was changing front forks and it popped out.......

couldn't get the khunt back in unless the drive boot was off. The plate is rectangular and only goes in a certain way.

[Paddy Honda]

Its an EG manual and covers all D & B series engines

As I said, I have measured 6 different shaft fully compressed and they are all the same and they had double orange, blue and white stripes so no difference.
The only difference I did find on one of the shafts with the double orange band was that the shaft was thicker. I think this was an teg trye R but it was the same length, same number of splines just a thicker shaft

The issue is that something is out of alignment and the standard shaft doesnt have the tolerances to deal with it.

My car is an EG6 shell so should be all good for the B16 engine. Not sure where the engine is from. I think its a B16A from an EK9??

From my searching, there has been a good few cases of drive shafts popping out of the cup but noone had pip pointed the issue.


4wd? are you looking at eg/dc manual?
d16a9 engine, concerto?

i think youre trying to use driveshafts from other cars, trying to mix match
hence the issue.

i never see any driveshaft popping out from b16a swap in eg.
where does this engine come from?

are you trying to use driveshaft the donor engine?

[Paddy Honda]

The way I read the manual, the measurement is used to get the neutral position of the spider bearings within the cup and then you fix the boot when the bearings are in position.

If you could measure would be great and let me know the cup length and what colour bands.

When we have all this info on shafts I think we should get a sticky up on it. Thanjks


either way, did you measure the length of driveshaft like in manual?
i can measure my spare for you if you need it

my spare is from honda integra dc2r '99
i can measure it when fully compressed so we can compare

[mocchi]

Its an EG manual and covers all D & B series engines

As I said, I have measured 6 different shaft fully compressed and they are all the same and they had double orange, blue and white stripes so no difference.
The only difference I did find on one of the shafts with the double orange band was that the shaft was thicker. I think this was an teg trye R but it was the same length, same number of splines just a thicker shaft

The issue is that something is out of alignment and the standard shaft doesnt have the tolerances to deal with it.

My car is an EG6 shell so should be all good for the B16 engine. Not sure where the engine is from. I think its a B16A from an EK9??

From my searching, there has been a good few cases of drive shafts popping out of the cup but noone had pip pointed the issue.

so you bought the car as a shell only no engine?
eg6 should come with b16a from factory.

ek9 comes with b16b from factory.
we need complete history of car & engine to brainstorm what might be causing this issue.

is this your first time running this car
or it was fine before and you're trying to replace driveshaft

how about you measure from cup to cup fully compressed
and ill do the same then we compare?

[Paddy Honda]

The plates make it very hard to get the bearings into the cup. Its a balls. It took me about 10mins on the bench the other night to get them lined up right so good luck to anyone trying to get it into a cup alrady on the gearbox :)


I've had this problem.

My driveshafts have the plates too and I believe they are the stock oem shafts.

I was changing front forks and it popped out.......

couldn't get the khunt back in unless the drive boot was off. The plate is rectangular and only goes in a certain way.

[Paddy Honda]

Yes, bought the EG6 shell and the engine was seperate but its a B16A so not sure whats its out of.

No, I ran the car in the Kuitpo forest rally last September. I got 18km into the 19km first stage and on a really rough section, the back got away from me and I was on full lock and the drive shaft came out of the inner cup on the passanger side and game over.
I got it home (on a trailer) and took out the shaft and it sat like that for a good few months.
So I knew there was an issue but I only got back to it a few weeks back and I needed to get it going so that I could put it through regency as a dedicated rally car so I just got another stock driveshaft and inner cup and put it in. I drove it around the block and it seemed fine and I taught it would only be an issue during competition and not normal driving. I drove down the road and turned left onto a main road with a little speed and there was a bang and loss of drive. Again the damn drive came out of the inner cup.

So I got it home and on the lift and had a look. I measured the the rear tow point to the lower ball joint nut on the bottom of the driver side knuckle and then to the same point on the passanger side and the passanger side was 20mm set back towards the rear. So I taught this might be the problem, I changed out the LCA with another and it brought the ball joint back inline with the other side. I was sure this was the problem.
This is when I put in the standard shaft with the longer cup as per the photos about with no grease and boot so I could see where the bearings sat. So as in the photo, the bearings are past the end of the cup which cant be right. So there must be something else wrong.

There doesnt seem to be any stress on any of the engine mounts so it seems like the engine is in the right position so it must be the driveshaft is extended because the knuckle/hub is further away from the gearbox because of XXXX. Its the XXXX that I cant put my finger on. aaagggghhhhh :(


so you bought the car as a shell only no engine?
eg6 should come with b16a from factory.

ek9 comes with b16b from factory.
we need complete history of car & engine to brainstorm what might be causing this issue.

is this your first time running this car
or it was fine before and you're trying to replace driveshaft

how about you measure from cup to cup fully compressed
and ill do the same then we compare?

[Paddy Honda]

Hi Mocchi,

were you able to take those measurements??


how about you measure from cup to cup fully compressed
and ill do the same then we compare?

[mocchi]

Hi Mocchi,

were you able to take those measurements??

lol sorry m8 i forgot
ill take it tonight.

[ericl33]

Hi Mocchi,

were you able to take those measurements??
LOL

forever_garage, too busy with his kdwap

[Paddy Honda]

Ok, an update if anyones interested.
It turned out that my front subframe was bent.
It wasnt obvious until I took it of. The front legs of it were 20mm wider then they should be.
No idea how it got out that far as I had the bar across the top of the subframe.
I believe that it was bent before I got the car and then the few bangs it got during the rally pushed it over the edge.
So with the extra spread, it was pulling the drive out of the cup.
When I changed the subframe, the drive shaft on the passenger was 12.5mm more into the cup on that side and 10mm on the drivers side.
Had it out over the weekend and all sorted now. What a dose