Engine Performance Choices

[Steven1]

Hey forum,

Im thinking about what engine performance modifications to do to my EK1 civic in order to perform great on the streets and for some form of hill climb/track events.

This is taking into account that im going to do my suspension work before any of these performance mods take place.

My problem is for what would style of performance would be best for the style of car i would want, on a budget style build layout for a uni student.

I had a stock d16y4 in the car at the moment and was thinking about a self built t25 or t28 turbo kit which will give usable boost power on the streets and wont have much lag.
Or would it be better to go with a motor swap such as b16a/b18c/K20a and keep it N/A??


Guys please help me out with this choice. What would be the pros and cons of these set ups for a street/hill climb set up.

Help would be appreciated
Steven

[SLOBRO]

how much ccan u spend on motor

[Steven1]

Assume that i can spend the money on the swaps while saving up. (probs not K swap thou )

[SLOBRO]

Then best thing would be Type R conversion :)

[DarkAgent]

Y8 head and small turbo.

[Steven1]

Interesting options guys,
What are your reasons for these choices?

[DarkAgent]

Y8 and turbo is pretty good bang for buck and make decent power. Personally though, I would keep it NA and get B18CR but that would be easily twice the price with not too much difference in power.

Research what the D16 is capable of, d-series.org is a really good resource.

[infurNOS]

Guys please help me out with this choice. What would be the pros and cons of these set ups for a street/hill climb set up.



B20VTEC, cheapish compared to other engine conversions around the same displacement and torque (needed for hiill climbs). Not sure about NSW, but SA it can be done without engineering/inspection. That could be a MASSIVE pro along with reliabilty :) Cons - not much power to be gained once you go the all motor set up.

Turbo you will run the risk of understeer with a FWD (where with NA you have a bit more linear approach of power, reducing understeer somewhat), cooling issues if not done properly, probably a rebuild depending on your Kms and reliability. Which brings me to my other point. All equipped with an LSD gearbox.

[Steven1]

Ah interesting choice there infurNOS, didnt think about a B20 style build up.. I do like the idea of uniqueish builds like d and b20's due to many ppl going the straight up b16/18 route. Since I hadnt thought about it, How much would a B20VTEC build cost on rough estimate?

Well with my turbo d series thoughts, i was thinking that a small turbo on stock engine only pushing 6odd PSI and it would be ok to compensate the understeer with suspension? could easily be wrong there.

My car has 100000km on the d16y4 engine atm so was thinking to take advantage of it by using it for the build. Heard it can be done quite cheap if you source the parts yourself and do the labour (minus tuning).


On the LSD point, without a doubt need one of them :)

[Riced_Civic]

if u set ur car up right understeer wont be a problem with a turbo.

in saying that im an biased towards a b20 set up and a turbo set up, as i have a B20 Turbo.
both will give good low end torque to pull u out of the corners and if u have the right equipment in the car it can be a great set up.

both can be had at reasonable prices these days.

[connorling]

track use and daily, i would go for the late model b18cr, get the front cut which has brakes for upgrade as well, and the gearbox has lsd plus shorter final drive, which is what u want on the street and track.

if you go turbo D, u will be wanting more power, and soon you will spend more $$ rebuilding the motor, and all the cooling and braking as well.

[connorling]

I agree with Riced_Civic, my b18c turbo seems to do a good job on the track, suspension set up is important, and good control with your right foot in the corner, i think u will be alright.




if u set ur car up right understeer wont be a problem with a turbo.

in saying that im an biased towards a b20 set up and a turbo set up, as i have a B20 Turbo.
both will give good low end torque to pull u out of the corners and if u have the right equipment in the car it can be a great set up.

both can be had at reasonable prices these days.

[Fraser]

Best budget performance would be an Integra VTIR damaged donor car from the auctions.170 hp is a huge jump from a D16Y4 and you get virtualy everything you need.Lets not get away from the fact you are a student and you did say budget.Later on when more $s come along you can update the bottom end with a B20.

[Steven1]

Good ideas coming in guys,

Fraser, I didnt think about buying the integra VTIR damaged whole car for all the bits that I need.
Would even be better if i could pick up a rare late model DC2r damaged with the Type r engine and get the seats from it to. Then I could sell off the extra bits that arent needed for some cash flow afterwards.

[joe.teg]

K20 setup man. if you have the money go for a k20/24 frankenstein setup with a 6 speed type r gearbox. Even if you were to go for a straight k20 swap, the k series will always be far superior to b20 setups for the simple fact of the gearbox. shorter ratios due to it being six speed and power delivery on k swapped hondas in incredible. Im not biased as i drive a heavily built b18 dc2 but i have driven a few k swapped integras and a few b20 integras and the power delivery is so different. For your hill climb events you cant go past the k setup, even for the street its an awsome options. MUCH MUCH MUCH better than a turbo d series, although the raw sound of the b series is pretty amazing :P

[Steven1]

I agree with you joe.teg,
A K series would be an absolute monster to drive and use on the track. Just for the cost that I would have to do to get it to happen may be out of my league.
As I said, im a uni student atm, so a cheapish style build is in mind.

Hence why I contemplated the D turbo, making advantage of what engine I have at the moment. Like not thinking it would be a complete monster, but would be fun to have a little 6-7psi t28 doing some work :)

[Fraser]

You seem to have answered your own question.

[ericl33]

d15b7

end thread/

[SLOBRO]

yer Type r would be better coz u'll get the better engine+gearbox bigger brakes and so on

[Monetz]

depend what u want man if u want nice VTEC+Turbo i would have to say go for B20 2L Block+ B16/B18 VTEC Head+ Turbo + ITR 4.4 or 4.7Gearbox,TB,IM,Hondata s300 that would give u something that u prefer for a turbo.

if u want nice VTEC only go for B18CR swap or K swap depend on your budget. and i found 2 JDM B18C type R and 1 AUDM B18C7 on ebay in your Local u can check this out your self.

B18C7
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-Integra-Type-R-B18C7-Engine-Package-inc-Gearbox-/170856302915?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c7d44943#ht_564wt_1265

98 JDM
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JDM-B18C-DC2-Type-R-147KW-Engine-Conversion-Kit-LSD-gearbox-98Spec-EG-EK-Civic-/320921884518?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab86f5766#ht_931wt_1031

JDM
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-Integra-JDM-B18C-DC2-Type-R-147KW-Engine-Conversion-Gearbox-Harness-/320916158601?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab817f889#ht_931wt_1031

[Steven1]

Thanks for all the good advice guys, its giving me lots of food for thought.

Im leaning towards either doing a turbo on the d series for some fun and a little bit more power under the hood. Or ill save up and do a B18c swap for the car but it will have to be further down the track due to costing a decent chunk.

Two questions thou:
- How much boost with a t28 can i run through a stock internal D16y4 series safely, was thinking about 6-7PSI??
- My car is a 2000 EK1 and in NSW, am i correct in saying that the motor has to be a later year than my car when it gets swapped in?

Steven

[DakDak]

1. Yes you can run 6-7 PSI with a T28. Provided your D16 is healthy. T28's seem to max around 1 bar/14.7psi. Try to snag one off a JDM S15. So you get the T28 BB
2. Yes. The engine has to be the same or later year than the car, never earlier.

[IVTECI]

1. Yes you can run 6-7 PSI with a T28. Provided your D16 is healthy. T28's seem to max around 1 bar/14.7psi. Try to snag one off a JDM S15. So you get the T28 BB
2. Yes. The engine has to be the same or later year than the car, never earlier.

Correct.

Perfect example of this was my old lancer cb wit the vtec d16 turbo running t28bb tuned with EMS ecu.

Pulled 225fwkw @ 1bar boost.

Custom driveshafts tend to start slipping that prevented in obtaining more power back then.

[Steven1]

Yeah stock motor is in good shape, only just ticked over to 100K and gets its service in 2 weeks when im home on uni break. Hence the contemplation for the little turbo set up :)
Getting a T28BB would be sweet and hopefully will make decent numbers even with just 7PSI. How much would that turbo set me back pricewise??

@ IVTECI - Wow those are some good numbers with a lancer! would love to see some pics of the car if your willing to post them up

[Riced_Civic]

A decent turbo set up should net u around 120 to 130 kwatw

[IVTECI]

How much would that turbo set me back pricewise??

@ IVTECI - Wow those are some good numbers with a lancer! would love to see some pics of the car if your willing to post them up

a 2nd hand T28BB would probably set u back around $400-500 for a decent low klms (hard to find though) . OR you can probably go with a STI turbo VF43. They are about the same spec as the T28BB and are capable of handling 245kw max before they shit itself.. LOL.

Yeh ill see if i can pull up some pics of the old beast.... oh the only reason why it was capable of running that much power was because the internals were built from bottom to top. :p

We actually tuned and ran it at 22psi at some stage with AVGAS... but cant recall how much power it pulled.

[Steven1]

Thats a good boost in power than what the stock motor puts out at the moment. Cant wait to get the project under way in the future.
Well thats not to much for the quality of a BB turbo that will last.ill have to find one thou...
Im slowly going to put together the kit and save some money but finidng parts myself.
Is there a particular company that make nice manifolds for the D series??

Yeah would love to see some pics of the car, sounds like a real monster at 22PSI!! that would drive insane mate.