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EuroAccord13
22-12-2003, 11:49 PM
I've heard that the Greddy Emanage works very well with VTEC engines, can or has anyone installed this in their cars yet and what are the power gains etc etc?

CHEERS

Setanta
23-12-2003, 11:18 PM
Yeah - especially as they come with Type-R stickers to make it go even faster. :P

In other words, do real mods first, then upgrade the ECU :)

ATSE
24-12-2003, 09:43 AM
If you own a Euro Accord, the Greddy EManage will not work on your engine, as it is not compatible with I-Vtec (K-Series). Therefore your only option is either V-AFC II (which is a waste of money) or Hondata who i think have just released a chip which supports I-Vtec. As previously stated, mods such as I/H/E and preferrably cams too should be done first before you even touch the ECU. Unless you have alot of money and time and want to tune mod tune mod all the time...

pornstar
24-12-2003, 03:23 PM
dont bother with the e-manage, get a full standalone, or a hondata if u want to modify ur ecu

AP1 F20c
24-12-2003, 06:40 PM
Do you guys even know what the K24a can or cannot do and what you're trying to achieve from an ECU upgrade/modification? Just because a vague idea of something doesn't necessary mean it's a gut accuracy that it works. In reality, Hondata's has nothing for this engine as yet, same goes for all the usual JDM tuners with performance ECUs (IE - Mugen, Spoon, Mines', Feels'). Doesn't that show indication that you should do a bit more research before jumping on a discussion wagon with no real clue on what you're trying to achieve and heading?

ginganggooly
24-12-2003, 06:57 PM
Do you guys even know what the K24a can or cannot do and what you're trying to achieve from an ECU upgrade/modification? Just because a vague idea of something doesn't necessary mean it's a gut accuracy that it works. In reality, Hondata's has nothing for this engine as yet, same goes for all the usual JDM tuners with performance ECUs (IE - Mugen, Spoon, Mines', Feels'). Doesn't that show indication that you should do a bit more research before jumping on a discussion wagon with no real clue on what you're trying to achieve and heading?

wtf?

if you wish to share your pearls of wisdom with us mere mortals, do try to bear in mind that we don't like to be spoken down to.

leave your arrogance at the door next time. thankyou.

booget
24-12-2003, 07:16 PM
hahaha tru dat
mate AP! F20C u speak like u know so much shiet
share mate thats wat we r here 4

Weq
24-12-2003, 07:48 PM
i have to agree with F20c, u guys really dont have much an idea.
the e-manage can be used as a more accurate AFC, and only needs to be compatible with the said MAP sensor of the engine to use basic function.
Second of all, full stand alone ecu's are kinda illegal for street use.

lastly, the engine has nothing to do with the compatibility of said units, rather the ECU's they run and how complex they are.

booget
24-12-2003, 08:59 PM
yeh that tru not many of us know wats really goin on thats y we come on these forums

but his tone is not very plzing!!

mo
24-12-2003, 09:31 PM
lol his tone is never pleasing but always a great read :D

eknine
24-12-2003, 10:38 PM
"...truth can sometime be like a slap on the face, if you took it to heart..you just got slapped!" ;)

ATSE
24-12-2003, 10:58 PM
yeh sorry... i got no clue...

Go install a e-manage in a K-series then... see if it works... go find a person with a DC5R or a Euro Accord with a e-manage installed... good luck cause you won't... dun forget e-manage acts as a vtec controller as well... if u change the A/F ratio and not adjust the crossover to the changed settings.. whats the point???
Why the fuk u think they released the V-AFC II for as well? for Fun? It was designed to work with K-Series engines, because V-AFC I is not compatible with it...

then again i have no clue eh...

mo
24-12-2003, 11:23 PM
Whoa I can feel the heat here...It's just a discussion don't take it to heart mate...

Setanta
25-12-2003, 12:11 AM
Something which has just about alienated everyone in this thread.

I'd suggest you buy a personality upgrade before commenting, I hear they may have done an upgrade to your latest offensiveness - although I *am* a little vague on this :x

AP1 F20c
25-12-2003, 08:41 AM
Blah, don't bother. There's no basic understanding of tuning possiblities in what one is trying to achieve, let alone discuss options. If you wanna talk about the CL9, I'd first ask you a very simple question, how much do know about this car to begin with? Why is everyone suddenly a tuning specialist with great years of racing experience and foundation behind them when a simple question (IE - What exhaust is the best for my car?) when there are so many different ways of playing with altering the powerband? Along with a host of multiple variables? What may be good for one may not necessary mean it works for the other." So what if Hondata now has a K24a application? Is anyone around here going to get it right now? And what's the point of bumping a VAFC-II in an application that has saw no basic NA tuning mods - Headers? Intake? Catback Exhaust?

Perhaps venturing further than car forums all day long would net a better understanding on what you're trying to achieve. And please talk to me about tuning, I'm not here to bitch about what I know. I'm here to pass a fact that there needs to be more acquired knowledge before raising meaningful discussions. No wonder why there is a general consensus out there that OzHonda serves no real meaningful purpose, not that I agree but threads like these certainly don't look good. You feel offended? Sorry, I'm merely stating the facts from an observant's point of view.

In general, take this as a good pointer. For one to start improving their cars regardless of what aspects. Start by searching for the weak points and work from there, if you haven't even gone pass pushing the limits of what the stock car can produce ... It's all a waste of slapping this on or fitting that on to brag to everyone that I have this and that on my car. Since this is clearly a CL9 discussion, let's keep it to that. I'm willing to contribute some very meaningful pointers on what should be one's focus rather than endless speculation on what's gonna be released or made available next.

5 Weak Links - CL9 Only
-----------------------------
Weight = This car carries too much because of all the luxury features included, if you wanna be fast, move fast and handle better. Think about how to reduce weight. How much you wanna go depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice your luxury creature comforts.

Suspension = Soft, soft and more soft. You may find the handling to be "pretty" up to specs and can handle well but when you go into steep handling and quick off-camber cornering, this car offers a whole lot of understeer with or without VSA. Understeer is the common enemy and major speed reducer, highly advisable to get this changed if you want to compete with the DCs in real-time action.

Powerband = Everyone's greatest obsession it seems. Yes, 2.4L of massive torque to haul that heavy weight off, but low on horsepower when compared to the other K series, especially the DC5Rs. Powerband nets i-VTEC in use of only 5½ to 7½RPMs much like the H22a Preludes. The basic components of bolt-on performance upgrades to improve that aspect is definitely essential before considering moving further into the tuning chain about how to be the quickest CL9 ever. So what if you got all that power? Whatabout the rest of the aspects of the car?

Brakes = Looks big doesn't it? Unfortunately, that's all to it. Good initial braking power but nothing sufficient to pull that weight to a halting stop in quicktime when required before cooking the pads. If you're heading to improving power and handling, this goes hand-in-hand to provide the all time necessity of major stopping power alongside. Pads cook quickly and should be seriously looked. Rotors are good enough for even track use but most certainly braking power is nothing impressive with those weak pads.

Tyres & Rims Size = Thanks to Honda Australia, we've got ourselves a joke of a 16s with some very imperative crap Dunlop rubber (Unlike the 03 NSXs running the SP9090s), whatever happened to the Honda + Bridgestone Only venture deal? Oh well. Don't complain though, you aren't paying alot for a car that's already very well built/tuned and provides ample performance for the average Joe. Think about how much to upsize and increase that contact patch along with much much better rubber required to really show good handling aspects without touching suspension, brakes or power upgrades. 1st thing on the list to get rid of if possible.

Anyone else interested ... Or are we gonna continue with this childish know all behavior?

ginganggooly
25-12-2003, 11:23 AM
:?
mmm yep. okay.

:roll:


No wonder why there is a general consensus out there that OzHonda serves no real meaningful purpose, not that I agree but threads like these certainly don't look good. You feel offended? Sorry, I'm merely stating the facts from an observant's point of view.


did you also know, that on the honda, internet forum community, there is a general consensus that you serve no real, meaningful purpose?
given your displayed attitude, i can't say that i disagree.

trs
25-12-2003, 01:28 PM
there are so many different ways of playing with altering the powerband? Along with a host of multiple variables? What may be good for one may not necessary mean it works for the other."[/b][/i] So what if Hondata now has a K24a application? Is anyone around here going to get it right now? And what's the point of bumping a VAFC-II in an application that has saw no basic NA tuning mods - Headers? Intake? Catback Exhaust?

Start by searching for the weak points and work from there, if you haven't even gone pass pushing the limits of what the stock car can produce ...

5 Weak Links - CL9 Only
-----------------------------
Weight = This car carries too much because of all the luxury features included, if you wanna be fast, move fast and handle better. Think about how to reduce weight. How much you wanna go depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice your luxury creature comforts.

Suspension = Soft, soft and more soft. You may find the handling to be "pretty" up to specs and can handle well but when you go into steep handling and quick off-camber cornering, this car offers a whole lot of understeer with or without VSA. Understeer is the common enemy and major speed reducer, highly advisable to get this changed if you want to compete with the DCs in real-time action.

Powerband = Yes, 2.4L of massive torque to haul that heavy weight off, but low on horsepower when compared to the other K series, especially the DC5Rs. Powerband nets i-VTEC in use of only 5½ to 7½RPMs much like the H22a Preludes. The basic components of bolt-on performance upgrades to improve that aspect is definitely essential before considering moving further into the tuning chain about how to be the quickest CL9 ever.

Brakes = Good initial braking power but nothing sufficient to pull that weight to a halting stop in quicktime when required before cooking the pads. If you're heading to improving power and handling, this goes hand-in-hand to provide the all time necessity of major stopping power alongside. Pads cook quickly and should be seriously looked. Rotors are good enough for even track use but most certainly braking power is nothing impressive with those weak pads.

Tyres & Rims Size = Thanks to Honda Australia, we've got ourselves a joke of a 16s with some very imperative crap Dunlop rubber. Think about how much to upsize and increase that contact patch along with much much better rubber required to really show good handling aspects without touching suspension, brakes or power upgrades. 1st thing on the list to get rid of if possible.

Anyone else interested ... Or are we gonna continue with this childish know all behavior?

Being rather childish myself, I took the liberty of editing ap1's post into something a tad more 'forum friendly' without all the condescending crap he is known for.
You raise some interesting if not obvious points without really giving any specific answers..
If you are taking this car on track or even for spirited driving, pretty much all sporty luxury sedans from the factory could do with a:
brake pad, brake fluid upgrade/ a suspension setup more inclined towards performance than comfort / weight loss program /more power.

IMO there is nothing wrong with going straight for a standalone tuneable ECU straight off the bat without any other engine mods. The difference comes down to the tuning[i'm talking about your general fit all systems like autronic, motec, microtech etc the specific hks, greddy stuff i have no idea if it works on an accord so i'll stay right out of that lol]. Sure you probably won't see much gain from a stock engine, but you have a good foundation which allows you to individually tune for every future bolt on you add in the future.

This might be slightly controversial, but I also disagree with the idea that you should change tyres first to improve 'handling'. You may gain a crapload in grip levels, and sidewall stiffness response etc but underneath all that you still have the same stock handling characteristics - only at a much higher threshold of speed.
I believe if you're going to do it properly, sort out your car's handling the way you want it to handle first before aiming for better grip. You don't have to go out and buy expensive off the shelf 'JDM parts yo'.. You could probably take it to a proper suspension place and upgrade shocks/springs/swaybars all in one hit for the price of a middle of the range jdm height adjustable coilover setup. On the cars ive owned: I've found that a good mildly aggressive wheel alignment makes a very noticeable difference whilst being relatively cheap!

of course all this shite means crapola if you only drive on the street at semi legal speeds ; so i guess the usual routine of throwing together some bolt-ons and praying will do the trick.

trs
25-12-2003, 01:40 PM
No wonder why there is a general consensus out there that OzHonda serves no real meaningful purpose, not that I agree but threads like these certainly don't look good. You feel offended? Sorry, I'm merely stating the facts from an observant's point of view.

Stating the facts from an observant's point of view? That isn't called a fact mate, that's called an opinion... an opinion which comes from a source noone here knows nor gives a shit about.

and hehe yes I believe the general consensus out on you speaks for itself:
faan forums[banished], s2ki.com[banished], te forums[banished], clubrsx[still there lol],
next : the TK/noel and ek9/bro sideshow hit ozhonda baby. I wonder how long it will take on this forum before you start giving everyone the shits.

gruB frabar

AP1 F20c
25-12-2003, 03:42 PM
Being rather childish myself, I took the liberty of editing ap1's post into something a tad more 'forum friendly' without all the condescending crap he is known for.

If it ain't my personal internet beef distributor, welcome! HarryB, I see you've caught up to raise your further continual grudge against me from forum to forum without ending your last one. Indeed, very disturbing and true to my statement of you, a net stalker with nothing better in life to do. Would you like me to give a full listing of the number of forums I visit? So you can continue your endless regurgitation of how much you hate me? I'll keep saying this to you, about how pathetic and lame you're. Had to sign up a new account just to have another paper war with me on a new board hoping to raise a better outcomes this time round?


You raise some interesting if not obvious points without really giving any specific answers. If you are taking this car on track or even for spirited driving, pretty much all sporty luxury sedans from the factory could do with a: brake pad, brake fluid upgrade/ a suspension setup more inclined towards performance than comfort / weight loss program /more power.

A discussion true to it's nature, I raise pointers and made statements, other discuss. Am I suppose to give clear cut answers as well? Imperatively stupid for shooting yourself in the foot once again. I better hope you have better responses this time round with you substandard flaming personal attacks.

And no, this is clearly specific directed at the CL9 instead of other so called "Sporty Luxury Sedans". (IE - 325/328, IS200/300) just to name a clear simple field that has much consistent, better, stronger braking standards when compared to the CL9 from factory. I highlighted the weak points of the car, I didn't say it's substandard, but you on the other hand has decided to scrutinize based on using track/spirited driving as an example that is factless BS. Once again, I cannot understand where you get your "shit all, thinks it looks like that" kinda judgement from.


IMO there is nothing wrong with going straight for a standalone tuneable ECU straight off the bat without any other engine mods. The difference comes down to the tuning[i'm talking about your general fit all systems like autronic, motec, microtech etc the specific hks, greddy stuff i have no idea if it works on an accord so i'll stay right out of that lol]. Sure you probably won't see much gain from a stock engine, but you have a good foundation which allows you to individually tune for every future bolt on you add in the future.

You're throwing an endless variable into a discussion without any substantial evidence on how it works, let alone any proof of whether it can work. Then you add the fact that you don't know how it works on an Accord. So why did you even bother to raise a point that means absolutely nothing? If you're simply trying to raise a point to win a discussion, you really aren't heading anywhere. And no, I have not seen anyone or any tuner as a matter of fact as smart as you to get a fully tunable aftermarket ECU on a completely stock car and tuning it every step of the way. Further proof that you have **** all knowledge about what you're even talking about.


This might be slightly controversial, but I also disagree with the idea that you should change tyres first to improve 'handling'. You may gain a crapload in grip levels, and sidewall stiffness response etc but underneath all that you still have the same stock handling characteristics - only at a much higher threshold of speed.

For **** sakes, go and book yourself for a decent test drive, not one of those lame sales person that lets you drive around the block before you raise such a comment. The OEM tyres will get you from A to B but it will not even produce performance from a simple tyre like the Bridgestone RE010s. If you think that's not important without even driving the car, what else matters from your "know all" knowledge about Hondas?


I believe if you're going to do it properly, sort out your car's handling the way you want it to handle first before aiming for better grip. You don't have to go out and buy expensive off the shelf 'JDM parts yo'.. You could probably take it to a proper suspension place and upgrade shocks/springs/swaybars all in one hit for the price of a middle of the range jdm height adjustable coilover setup.

Thanks for the fictitious tuning advise once again, WHO in the wide land of Australia currently offers shocks/spring/swaybars all in one hit for the price of 2 pieces of coilovers? Perhaps you're trying to point out that maybe some good shop will use a so called set of performance upgrade from an old Accord to see if it works on this one. Once again, factless crap.


of course all this shite means crapola if you only drive on the street at semi legal speeds ; so i guess the usual routine of throwing together some bolt-ons and praying will do the trick.

Actually all this does mean shit because all you've done is add your 2 cents of "fantasy tuning predictions", "perhaps this will work", "maybe it works like this" kinda statements when there's no substantial proof of what really works and what doesn't?

AP1 F20c
25-12-2003, 04:20 PM
Stating the facts from an observant's point of view? That isn't called a fact mate, that's called an opinion... an opinion which comes from a source noone here knows nor gives a shit about.

Since you've been lurking around, you should have clearly paid more attention to the current forum highlights. One of them being the "Honduh Bashing" thread http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2080. Now I have not made a comment about it, and I'm most certainly disagree with what has been said on the Fast Fours Forum about OzHonda by your Nissan counterparts. And yes, that is an observation, not an opinion. What more do you wanna add to that? Why don't you join your Nissan brothers there with what they've said instead of pursuing a personal crusade here?


and hehe yes I believe the general consensus out on you speaks for itself: faan forums[banished], s2ki.com[banished], te forums[banished], clubrsx[still there lol], next : the TK/noel and ek9/bro sideshow hit ozhonda baby. I wonder how long it will take on this forum before you start giving everyone the shits.

You're never gonna end that are you? This is the same crap of BS I see of you posting from one forum to the other. And you've never answered me, "What is your point for stalking me like there's no tommorrow?". Just because you hate what I say and have said to you, you have to preach to the whole world. F*cking Lamer. You truly get that title from me. From me to you, you're nothing but an attention seeker sticking out like a sore thumb whining all day long.

booget
25-12-2003, 04:42 PM
man y is that everyone has something against u AP1 F20c

u must be a real charmer
hehehe
maybe its just u

oh wells

booget
25-12-2003, 04:43 PM
man y is that everyone has something against u AP1 F20c

u must be a real charmer
hehehe
maybe its just u

oh wells

JAP88R
25-12-2003, 04:55 PM
here we are once again... argueing on pointless shit and comment made by each other...

firstly, whats it to u (or anyone else that wants to join this utter BS convo/arguement) if someone wishes to leave a forum and join another? and why the f*** would u follow one and spread rumors or just 'backstab' across every forum someone goes on? whats the enjoyment of that? i think u need to go out more, or even stop stalking ppl in forums and give up, because ur not going anywhere further than where u started from.. also seems like there is a reason for this.. coz u cannot face them in reality and tell it to their face? i would think that is the case, coz u only seem to 'say shit' behind the monitor..

everyone is allowed to have their own opinions and comments whether u like it or not.. someone may like to use JDM parts instead of shopping around in aussie land for 'equivelant' products that 'can' do the job.. 'can' just might not be enough for the individual, hence looking further for better products.. JDM products are known to perform to a high standard as they frequently tested and are built to specifications to suit different models for specific purposes.. so whats the chances of going wrong? besides, whats it to anyone if someone wants to buy this and not that? in the end its not ur money they are spending, so why bother wasting time and effort just to put up a grudge against someone?

get to the point, stop running around in circles, stop starting shit for no apparent reason.. if u want to prove something, u wont be able to do it behind a computer screen.. so theres absolutely no point at all.. :| :| :|

im sure enough is enough... thats abt all i have to say atm... but i guess i just have to wait for a reply and tell some more bullshit.. :!:

one more chance
25-12-2003, 07:33 PM
nice cut and paste job...

mods, would it be possible to make this character a technical guru in which we can all consult on! :roll:

eknine
25-12-2003, 08:21 PM
trs..trs....why...why ..why... :(

whats the bottomline? found it yet? :)

at times i just wonder....if your objective is to issue a personal challenge ..why don't you do what JAP88R suggest .."go out more often"
why not just put what you know to work...end of the day you'd be a happier man...as much as nasty words can mean anything ... all that we can see is just a personal vendatta which you seemed to get off from it:)

apart from that....anyone who love to coin their 2 cents sacasm -. what the point? move on...but if you choose to partake then it only gonna led one or two ways:) - constructive discussion or a bitching session

---------------------------------
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Last Chance to See"

ATSE
25-12-2003, 08:42 PM
itz simple... the guy asked about emanage... i stated that emanage will NOT work on K-Series Engines seeing as he is getting a Euro. And then you come along AP1 F20c with blah blah blah I know everything you don't talk. Hey... u might know more than me... and guess what... I really don't give a shit. This forum is for people to get info and to ask questions so that everyone can share their knowledge. I didn't want that guy to purchase a emanage and then later finding out he couldn't use it for his car. The topic is ECU... and yet you go do a bloody cut and paste job telling us the facts about the car... WOW.... i could read the freakin Euro Accord brochure and write that... hey u might be smart and have a great knowledge on honda's... but i'll be honest... u got a attitude problem.

eknine
25-12-2003, 08:58 PM
btw ATSE, pls take sometime to re-read the posts, apparently there issn't anything directed at yo or at your mentioned of e-managed or anything else... i think because of the heated, environment you got confused in the crowd :roll:

also your mentioned of cut and paste job.. that i'm curious, pls direct me to the original post, from which forum, pls?

pornstar
25-12-2003, 10:27 PM
whoa, ill stay out of the personal attacks.

Anyway, Coming from a noobie that knows nothing about ecu's i'll give u a few reasons why u want a standalone rather than say an e-manage.

From my know nothing experience, the e-manage is a good piggy back tool but like all piggy backs have its limitations on what it can control whether it be auxillery or direct. For example, a piggy back will be limited to the size of the injectors, if the injectors become too big, the piuggy backs fail to control, whether or not u adjust duty cycle or not, the piggy back is just uncappable of "fooling" the factory ecu into reading this.

Look, i know nothing according to apcwhatever his name is, but no matter the amount of modifications or not, tuning will pretty much always gain u power across the board since factory tuning is always conservative.

And just a pointer about taking a "closer look" at the finer points, if ur bringing up the suspension etc, id like to know how the suspension affects the ECU, just from a noobie now nothing, how does those parts affect the decision for ecu?

AP1 F20c
26-12-2003, 07:26 AM
First I raised a simple question about how feasible is it to think about ECU tuning/upgrades. Next I get asked questions as to why I'm not discussing anything useful. Alright fine, I gave my response through intensive testing of this car on what I believe should be focused on the CL9 before the ECU/tuning upgrades process.

If anything, that should be the last thing on anyone's mind who owns a CL9. You're venturing further ahead of big/major ECU/tuners in Japan and US with no real meaning, how would you net a better result than them who're in the midst of releasing their own version of ECU through serious R&D? I know 3 specific companies who are currently doing that. One in the States, and two in Japan. Until they've covered the bases, it's endless speculation on what is the best ECU/tuning upgrade to use. Perhaps no one else bothered to look into what the Honda major aftermarket tuners are doing with their own program for the Accord/TSX.

The discussions raised on E-Manage/Piggyback systems is extremely useful. Especially in a general environment on what can or cannot be used, and I don't see how that should stop. Pornstar raised a few good points on why piggybacks aren't as useful as standalone ECU systems. While my opinions of E-Manage is very similar to ATSE, with given understanding that its not compatible with K series engines. Thus moving forward, there are a few clear options - VAFC-II (Current), Hondata (In Future), Mugen (In Future), Spoon (In Future), Mines' (In Future). Are we stopping there on this discussion?

And to the rest of the others who've made responses, Ginganggooly, Booget, Setanta. What is your point other than taking a swipe at me? Sorry, I'm not here for a personality assessment so if don't like my tone, why bother responding and doing absolutely nothing else contributing this the discussion?

Last but never the least, One More Chance, would you like to substantiate where my comments on 5 weak links of the CL9 is cut and pasted from? I clearly see plain groundless assumption with no meaning behind your statement.

booget
26-12-2003, 04:59 PM
just try n not be so harsh n rude mate
its not plzing to read
and people do take it personally thats y they attack u

i know u prolly know alot about cars
just try n be nicer about it
then u dont look like a prick

revolution
26-12-2003, 10:52 PM
*Sits back and grabs some popcorn*
:P 8)

A'PEXi
29-12-2003, 12:29 AM
lmfao@thread :D

ginganggooly
29-12-2003, 01:54 AM
And to the rest of the others who've made responses, Ginganggooly, Booget, Setanta. What is your point other than taking a swipe at me? Sorry, I'm not here for a personality assessment so if don't like my tone, why bother responding and doing absolutely nothing else contributing this the discussion?


swipe at you?
i wouldn't bother.

it's not personal, i just saw someone acting like an arrogant little know it all, and felt compelled to try and correct their attitude. obviously to no avail.

wynode
29-12-2003, 03:10 AM
Lets keep this purely ECU's please. Nobody likes it when people clutter up the technical forum with unrelated CRAP.