Track rims, using stock rims or aftermarket?

[YER801]

Hey guys!

So, the tyres on my stock rims are needing new tyres so ive done the smart thing and just bought some 19's for street to cruise on. They arent a rim u would see at the track haha.

so my options are putting some sticky tyres on the stock rims or buying wider aftermarket rims to put tyres on.
My CL9 will be getting coilovers, swaybars and im, as we speak looking at upgrading brakes. although for looks as well as the stock calipers look a tad small on big rims. people have said you are fine with projectMU pads though..

Ill pretty much be upgrading performance as i get my skill better as ive never been to a track day before other than archy drift in my 180.

cheers guys!

[senna]

Throw some R tyres on the stock rims for track, you will be amazed at the difference.

A narrower sticky tyre is much better than a wide crappy tyre

[MingZai]

Where you from YER801?

Just use stock rims if you can't be bothered to purchase light weight rims and if I were you I would just spend the money you would to upgrade brakes to purchase some light rims.

[bennjamin]

the fastst euro ive seen at the race track...uses standard rims.

[YER801]

im from QLD ming, so im looking at going to lakeside!

yeah they actually feel not too heavy so i thought ild throw the question out there. so ill probably run stock rims and get some decent tyres like federals or something!

what general suspension stuff should i be fine with to go out for the first time?


thanks for the input!

[bennjamin]

remember to drop your tyre pressure a good 5-8psi and recheck after each session - and adjust the pressure to keep it around normal pressure HOT !

[BigBen]

Stock rims tends to be very strong and you find that semi slicks are cheaper in the smaller size than the larger size rubbers.

If this is your first time on the track, make sure you are using a fresh set of brake pads and keep a set handy.

[YER801]

thanks for the info bennjamin ill defiantly do that!

yeah ill keep an eye out for some semi slicks cause i can just put them on when i go to the track.

true with the brake pads? they go very quickly?

[YER801]

also with tyres would i be better with semi slicks or a good tyre like federal 595's

[MingZai]

Hmmmm TBH since it's your first time... no need for semi slicks...

I went with Pilot Super Sports and they were awesome but not sure about the Federals 595's.

Just get used to the car and what it feels like and everything :) then make adjustments to improve your time.

[Symphorced]

also with tyres would i be better with semi slicks or a good tyre like federal 595's

Keep in mind there's more than one tyre under the "595" branding. Don't go buying the cheapest 595 and expect it to perform as well as everyone says the 595RSRs do.

[ChaosMaster]

Loosing 1kg of unsprung weight is like loosing 5kg of sprung weight. Having said that, there's a limit to much weight you can loose just from the rims themselves, as tyres weigh more than them. To get a decent set of lightweight racing rims will set you back 2k+ easily so their not the cheapest option. I'ld say money would be better spent elsewhere. If your knew the the track, I'ld suggest something like Kumho KU36. Really sticky tyres in the dry, and cheap for what they are. Tyre wear is a bit crap though, but then so are most tyres when you take them on the track.

Brake Pads will go really quickly, you may want to change over to some performance/track pads especially if you do intend to go tracking often. I think the disadvantage of track bias pads were that they're noiser when cold, and bitey which don't make them as suitable for road use. Road bias pads would go after a few hot laps on the track, although letting them cool down will bring back some bite.

Edit: Should add that cheap rims like Rotas are known to break under track pressure/stress. So if you do go aftermarket, it'll be premium or stock, and no cheap imitations.

[MingZai]

I agree 100%^

Like I said before this is your first time on the track there is no need to invest in expensive rims / tyres (semi slicks).

IMHO

I think the first time on the track is to learn the track and the limits of your car before applying those things as those things are used to improve your track time / safety (in some essence).

Go for stock rims first with some good rubber like the KU36 or Pilot Super Sport (~$800) for the rubber.
http://www.michelin.com.au/Home/Products-Services/pattern-detail/PassengerCar/PilotSuperSport
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Super-Sport.htm
Best performing tyre in the dry ;)

For brake pads go for some Project Mu HC+ because it can be used in the street and track without the problems Chaos has mentioned which he is spot on btw. Pads made for pure track is unusable in the street (well it can but it's certainly not ideal) as you need to warm up prior to use and it loud and screechy. Whereas Project Mu HC+ operates between 0~800 Degrees and requires no warming up and makes no sounds.

Some quick tips for your first time tracking:

After you finish your session and coming back to the pits.

1. Park your car into your area preferably without slopes and put blocks under the car to prevent it from moving.
2. Ensure it's on Neutral and the handbrake is not engaged.
3. Put up the bonnet to allow heat to dissipate faster from the engine bay so it cools down faster.
4. Monitor your tyre pressure and it's different for everyone but I like it at 30 PSI (On top of my head)
5. Let it sit for good 5-10 mins and remove the rocker cover if you like (most of my friends do as do I ).

:)

Oh yes either stock or premium!

[ChaosMaster]

Out of interest; how much do PSS typically go for, as opposed to KU36 of the same size? Last time I checked, Michelin where typically 50% more expensive than Kumho's, and that's just for their regular tyres. Unless of course the KU36 is very expensive. But from memory, 225/40R18 PSS would go for $500+ each. No idea where the $800 price range comes from.

Otherwise, trust Ming. His got track experience in a CL9. (I've only been round in an Evo)

[MingZai]

I can't remember TBH

I think I may have gotten it for cost price because I know people LOL hahaha I just remember looking at the bill of ~$800 or so :p

Hahaha oooo what Evo did you have or still have :P

[Fredoops]

Out of interest; how much do PSS typically go for, as opposed to KU36 of the same size? Last time I checked, Michelin where typically 50% more expensive than Kumho's, and that's just for their regular tyres. Unless of course the KU36 is very expensive. But from memory, 225/40R18 PSS would go for $500+ each. No idea where the $800 price range comes from.

Otherwise, trust Ming. His got track experience in a CL9. (I've only been round in an Evo)

PSS around $200 per corner for 205/55/16

[MingZai]

I don't think they come in 16's not according to tire rack anyway

[ChaosMaster]

Not according to Michellin's own price list either. Can only assume you're talking about PS3. That or it's older stock. Having said that I recall RE002a going for $180 for 205/55/16 so I guess it could be right. Kumho would be cheaper though, around the $150 mark I would think. According to Tire Rack, KU39 go for $172 each while the PSS go for $226 for 225/40R18.


I can't remember TBH

I think I may have gotten it for cost price because I know people LOL hahaha I just remember looking at the bill of ~$800 or so :p

Hahaha oooo what Evo did you have or still have :P

It was a TMR Evo 8 tuned for Tarmac Rally. Had proper roll cage, stripped out interior, foam filled fuel tank, 400kw engine etc. Was a fair well present from my mentor for my Automotive class back about 5 years ago. He was the first to open a Pedders franchise and now works for CAMS as an official, so he had connections with Alan at TMR Dandenong. Was great fun, too bad it was short, about 15mins.

[Fredoops]

Not according to Michellin's own price list either. Can only assume you're talking about PS3. That or it's older stock. Having said that I recall RE002a going for $180 for 205/55/16 so I guess it could be right. Kumho would be cheaper though, around the $150 mark I would think. According to Tire Rack, KU39 go for $172 each while the PSS go for $226 for 225/40R18.



It was a TMR Evo 8 tuned for Tarmac Rally. Had proper roll cage, stripped out interior, foam filled fuel tank, 400kw engine etc. Was a fair well present from my mentor for my Automotive class back about 5 years ago. He was the first to open a Pedders franchise and now works for CAMS as an official, so he had connections with Alan at TMR Dandenong. Was great fun, too bad it was short, about 15mins.

You're right... it was PS3...

[MingZai]

:D ohhh shiettzzz Freddy got proved wrong LOL

But yeah PSS is quite expensive but it lasts and it can get plenty of KM's!!

I'm going to get PSS for my Evo as well when I get new tyres...

Dam that would've been some fun ;) with the Tarmac Rally Evo!

[YER801]

Loosing 1kg of unsprung weight is like loosing 5kg of sprung weight. Having said that, there's a limit to much weight you can loose just from the rims themselves, as tyres weigh more than them. To get a decent set of lightweight racing rims will set you back 2k+ easily so their not the cheapest option. I'ld say money would be better spent elsewhere. If your knew the the track, I'ld suggest something like Kumho KU36. Really sticky tyres in the dry, and cheap for what they are. Tyre wear is a bit crap though, but then so are most tyres when you take them on the track.

Brake Pads will go really quickly, you may want to change over to some performance/track pads especially if you do intend to go tracking often. I think the disadvantage of track bias pads were that they're noiser when cold, and bitey which don't make them as suitable for road use. Road bias pads would go after a few hot laps on the track, although letting them cool down will bring back some bite.

Edit: Should add that cheap rims like Rotas are known to break under track pressure/stress. So if you do go aftermarket, it'll be premium or stock, and no cheap imitations.

champion! thanks for the info mate.
after my own research im finding KU36's popular as a bang for buck tyre as well..

so track pads will be something like a projectMU pad or similar? coilovers are about to be ordered and tax time will get me tyres :D
soo keen to get out and flog around lakeside!

any other experiences anyone would like to share? anyone from qld got times they ran?'


EDIT: aw sheeet only just saw the 2nd page! thanks ming for confirmation! pretty much will look into everything said above :)

wonder how ill fair against the field of other 4 cylinders!

[YER801]

actually look on www.ozzytyres.com.au and see if any of them tyres will do?

[natnat]

the Pilot Super Sport in 225 40 18 is about US$904 + US$350 shipping + AU$60 bank fees shipped from Tirerack.. but I heard Tirerack cannot sell Michelins to Australia anymore...
locally expect $500 each retail.

Kumho KU36 in 225 40 18 should be around $250 and in 225 45 17 is $210 each.

[natnat]

remember to drop your tyre pressure a good 5-8psi and recheck after each session - and adjust the pressure to keep it around normal pressure HOT !

on normal street tyres, it's not a good idea to drop the tyre pressure. a friend followed a stranger advice in Marulan, dropped it to 30psi hot and he shredded his Continental Sport Contact 3 sidewall!! on real semis, go for it.

best to run 36psi cold for normal street tyres unless you hate your tyres.

[YER801]

natnat have a look on ozzytyres.com.au and see if you think any of their tyres to fit stock rims are any good for track? :)

[natnat]

champion! thanks for the info mate.
after my own research im finding KU36's popular as a bang for buck tyre as well..

so track pads will be something like a projectMU pad or similar? coilovers are about to be ordered and tax time will get me tyres :D
soo keen to get out and flog around lakeside!

any other experiences anyone would like to share? anyone from qld got times they ran?'


EDIT: aw sheeet only just saw the 2nd page! thanks ming for confirmation! pretty much will look into everything said above :)

wonder how ill fair against the field of other 4 cylinders!

i have ran on Potenza RE050A on Lakeside 5 Happy Laps sessions now. although happy laps is meant to be 140km/h max on the straight and 110km/h at the back, a lot of guys did 180-190 on the main straight and 150km/h at the back.

i kept my pressure at 36psi cold. it's a rather technical track with minimal run off if you get off the track.

so imo good brakes and tyres are important, then next suspension / sways / bushes / etc..

[natnat]

natnat have a look on ozzytyres.com.au and see if you think any of their tyres to fit stock rims are any good for track? :)

I assume you have 17x7 stock CL9 wheels, so 225 45 17.

for good value ones & when it's dry:

Kumho KU36 and Nitto NT05.

or Advan Neova AD08 from:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/competition-tyres/yokohama-advan-neova-ad08-tyre

should be around AU$930 shipped.

locally the AD08 in 17" is $350 each.

I had AD08 last year and loved them!

[YER801]

mine are 16" :(
cause ive got the preface lux

[natnat]

mine are 16" :(
cause ive got the preface lux

then the tyres are even cheaper for 205 55 16! ;-)

in that size, get something with stiff sidewall such as AD08.

one thing about CL9, it understeers without stiffer rear sway bar, even with coilovers. i had buddyclub coils on my CL9 in the past, understeer and brake fade were the weaknesses on the spirited run on Sydney - Wollonggong RNP twisties.

[YER801]

true, i think ill go out with just coilovers so i get the feel of each upgrade :)

what about the toyo RA1's? i can get them for $585 posted to my door :)

[MingZai]

the Pilot Super Sport in 225 40 18 is about US$904 + US$350 shipping + AU$60 bank fees shipped from Tirerack.. but I heard Tirerack cannot sell Michelins to Australia anymore...
locally expect $500 each retail.

Kumho KU36 in 225 40 18 should be around $250 and in 225 45 17 is $210 each.

Super Sport is that expensive? Wow what about AD08 how does the Super Sport compare to AD08's I wonder....

[natnat]

Super Sport is that expensive? Wow what about AD08 how does the Super Sport compare to AD08's I wonder....

yeh, michelins do cost a lot. the Pilot Super Sport is the stock tyre for the new BMW M5 / M3.

OEM Michelin Primacy HP on CU2 is also expensive.

I have not tried my Pilot Super Sport yet, bought a set from Tirerack because I just had to have a set but still waiting for the RE050A to die..

the AD08 performed really well on Marulan race track when dry (it's a technical 2.8km track with 18 corners i think), also had a few runs in the rain but i slowed down to be safe :P

[ChaosMaster]

Yeah Michelin are expensive. Brands like Conti, Bridgestone, Michelin, GoodYear, etc are all premium tyre brands and charge for it. Kumho and Falken etc are cheaper, mid range tyres I would call it, and are prob the best value for money. Then you got the Bob Jane tyres which are cheap and shit.

If you're new to racing, or tight on money, I suggest grabbing cheap tyres (possibly 2nd hand, but not retreaded ones). Consider grabbing cheaper, low rolling resistance tyres with a much harder compound and treadwear rating. You save money, the tyres last longer, and you learn how to control your car better as you'll have to brake earlier, corner with less grip meaning more time to learn about control over weight transfer, learn how to feel the grip loss from feedback from the steering wheel. Trust me, driving a fast car is a lot scarier than you think, always better to start from a lower level and move up. It took me 2 laps before I actually went full throttle in the Evo and that was with a trainer next to me.