White Smoke...

[eLtrix]

Hey guys!!

Just recently got a 97 integra gsi. Was fine up until a few days ago where i noticed that everyday when i start the car, A LOT of white smoke would come out of the exhaust....
If i left it idle for about 15- 20 minutes it would go away or if i drove it for a few minutes it would go away also.... But i tend not to drive it just incase something does happen...

Any idea what this could be? Any help would be greatly appreciated

[dc2r-0636]

Condensation ?

Could be head gasket check your dipstick and see if the oil is
Milky

[EK1 Civic]

Its been pretty cold, most likely its just normal exhaust fumes that you can only see when its only cold outside.

[eLtrix]

Condensation ?

Could be head gasket check your dipstick and see if the oil is
Milky

I actually just did a service yesterday changing engine oil and filter because i thought it would be the issue.. problem is still there
And i checked before hand, the oil was not milky at all.


Its been pretty cold, most likely its just normal exhaust fumes that you can only see when its only cold outside.

I dont think so because it was fine up until two days ago and its been just as cold for the past few days...

The smoke is CRAZY, not just small puffs of smoke. Its just large amount of smokes like a house would be on fire haha

[Lukey]

sounds like condensation to me.

check your radiator cap/coolant and over flow and see what it looks like.

[eLtrix]

What should I be looking for on the radiator cap? And what's the over flow?? Pretty new to this stuff. I checked my radiator cap and it's all nice and green

[unl3a5h]

its not condensation i had this same problem car should be okay to drive but might be on its way out my engine is being rebuilt at the moment

[eLtrix]

Not what I want to hear... it smokes every.morning on start up even on idle. Then when the temperate gauge goes up to the averagenpoaition smoked stops. And when I start the car again a few hours later. There's only.minimal smoke and mostly if not completely disappears when it warms up. Only really happens in the morning. Engine has only done 220kkms

[unl3a5h]

yeh exactly same thing was happening to me but i was burning oil as well so not exactly sure what was the eventual cause it also may be stem seals and guides?

[IV73CI]

Take vid of smoke in idle and youtube link it.


Hows the temp gauge? Fluctuating up and down? Check the coolant reserve and see if u got any oily residue or a milky colour..

[eLtrix]

Ill make a vid tmr morning if i get the chance to cause i have work...

Temp gauge does not fluctuate at all, it just steadily rises to just under half way and stays there.
I checked the collant reserve, nothing milky or anything. Just pure green. even checked the coolant bottle, its definitely not leaking or anything as levels has been the since for past 2 days that ive been monitoring it.

[EK1 Civic]

Well Hondas are designed to run rich on startup, does the fumes smell?

[dc2r-0636]

^ rich is black smoke.

Op, don't stress sounds like condensation.

[Setanta]

Rich is black smoke, oil is bluish-black, white is water.

If it's only happening on startup then relax. As people have pointed out, it's condensation. When your motor cools down the exhaust caches a bit of water the same as your house windows do at night. When the exhaust heats up, it gets blown out the tailpipe. You'll see a lot of cars doing this in the first 5-10 minutes of driving.

If you are worried about a blown head gasket (which I wouldn't be if the issue goes away after 10 min of driving) then get a mechanic to run a blow-by test - checking your radiator for gas blown out of the cylinders into the radiator.

[Setanta]

Well Hondas are designed to run rich on startup, does the fumes smell?

Oh god, I forgot I grew up as part of a generation where we had to use a manual choke :D

[eLtrix]

Just tested it again this morning.... the white smoke has reduced a fair bit, i was initially only worried because it smoked A LOT, like what you would expect when a house was on fire and smoke was coming out the window.

But when i did check again this morning the amount of smoke amount was a lot less. Which i find strange because it was a lot more ****ing cold last night than the previous 4 nights. OH well... ill keep monitoring it and see how it goes and just pray it was just condensation. The smoke does go away after 15 minutes of complete idle or 3-5 minutes driving. I just want to make sure that it would be safe for me to keep driving and i'm not making it worst by driving.

And yes the fumes does have a smell... not too sure what it smells like in particular...

Another problem i came across is though i hear ratting in my exhaust I THINK... as if its loose or something? Not too sure, while i was testing the car for white smoke this morning i reved it up to about 2-3 to see if it would cause white smoke as i was suprised there wasnt that much as i expected and i heard rattling noise like rocks in my exhaust or something??? Whats up with that? Any clues

[jase89]

My brother's pulsar has the same issue with smoking in the morning, Its not condensation i tell ya. It blow heaps of white smoke in some mornings that it goes into the next door neighbours yard. I did some research and apparently White smoke in the morning is caused by oil leaking into the combustion chamber overnight. His oil is not milky aswell as its fine, so is the coolant.

So we concluded that the engine is worn out seen better days and it needs to be rebuilt. For now, we use thicker oil and that seems to help abit. It DOES go away after its warmed up. Although I'm not sure if you got the same situation.

[Setanta]

Sounds like you should take it to an exhaust shop - might be a broken mount, broken baffle, anything.

Condensation doesn't increase due to it being more cold. Some of the by-products of exhaust fumes are hydrogen and oxygen which bond in gaseous form. When your car cools, these move from gas to liquid state and ends up sitting in your exhaust, cat etc (which is why exhausts are prone to rusting out over decades). When you re-start the car the next morning, the exhaust heats up quickly and has more H20 being pumped out as steam due to the build-up. Then it reverts to normal once all of the residual water has been expelled from the system.

Ignore "fumes smell"... all fossil fuels smell. In fact, you shouldn't be deliberately smelling an exhaust given all of the carcinogens etc that are being pumped out of an exhaust. If you wanted to see how much water comes out of a tailpipe, start up your car from cold and put your hand over the tailpipe- you'll end up with a sooty, wet hand. Don't leave it there too long though and don't breath in the exhaust fumes.

[Setanta]

White smoke in the morning is caused by oil leaking into the combustion chamber overnight.

Your research is faulty. Oil burns blue. You and your brother need to check your facts. Thicker oil makes absolutely no difference other than as a placebo effect.

[EK1 Civic]

Could mean your cat converter is breaking inside or your heat shield is rattling on your cat converter. Best to just get it checked and diagnosed so you know what the real problem is.

[eLtrix]

My brother's pulsar has the same issue with smoking in the morning, Its not condensation i tell ya. It blow heaps of white smoke in some mornings that it goes into the next door neighbours yard. I did some research and apparently White smoke in the morning is caused by oil leaking into the combustion chamber overnight. His oil is not milky aswell as its fine, so is the coolant.

So we concluded that the engine is worn out seen better days and it needs to be rebuilt. For now, we use thicker oil and that seems to help abit. It DOES go away after its warmed up. Although I'm not sure if you got the same situation.

My problem does go away after it warms up, my mate said it was my engine oil leaking in or some shit causing it to smoke but im pretty darn sure its not because then it would be "blue" white smoke or something like that. Its just plain white.... although previously it was pretty wild and it did go into my neighbours back yard... i even took it for a test drive down my road to warm it up, i looked behind to see the road to be compltely smoked hahaha with an old man staring at me walking his dog thinking my car was gna explode.

As for thicker oil, I'm not sure if that will help or not, i recently did a service with 10w-40 , i might jump to 10w- 50 since the car has been running for 220kkms now....

And for that rattling sound i guess ill just take it to the exhaust shop then... its pretty annoying now that i notice it there, especially since im such a rev head i hear it constantly now, sounds like stupid small pieces of rocks just jumping around having fun in the exhaust. Any good reccomendations as to where i should get it checked out at? I'm located in S.E Burbs, MELB.

PS: where roughly is the cat converter located?

[EK1 Civic]

Pretty much between the driver/passengers seat underneath the car. If your cars stock, you'll notice a heat shield. it'll look like that http://www.jshmotors.com/images/products/thumbs/1324492156-JDM-Dc2-Integra-Type-R-Cat-004.JPG

Just give it a light tap here and there and see if somethings rustling inside.

[eLtrix]

Ahh okay i know what that is, Im pretty new to this stuff, this teg is basically my first car. Planning to work on it and maybe do a engine swap later on... :)

FIrst i need to find a jack that can get under my car... its so ****ing low haha

[jase89]

My problem does go away after it warms up, my mate said it was my engine oil leaking in or some shit causing it to smoke but im pretty darn sure its not because then it would be "blue" white smoke or something like that. Its just plain white.... although previously it was pretty wild and it did go into my neighbours back yard... i even took it for a test drive down my road to warm it up



Lol we do the same thing just drive it straight away, to get the smoke away. It is oil leaking in the chamber. I took it to the mechanic he said nothing you can do but to rebuild the engine or put thicker oil in there to fix it abit. But since your doin a conversion just put up with it for a while lol.

[eLtrix]

I personally dont think it is oil leaking because sometimes it puffs a lot and sometimes it doesnt especially since it aint blueish white smoke

[Jasemas]

Ahh okay i know what that is, Im pretty new to this stuff, this teg is basically my first car. Planning to work on it and maybe do a engine swap later on... :)

FIrst i need to find a jack that can get under my car... its so ****ing low haha

In the meantime, head over to Super Cheap Auto/Repco and get yourself some car ramps for about $50-$70... It'll make it easy to do oil changes to

[eLtrix]

So here's the link of my exhaust going at it: http://youtu.be/TI-i0q7RBnQ

dunno why theres black bars on the side....

Looking at the video it would appear that its bluish smoke? but in real life sure doesnt seem that way.... but it may be in fact blue smoke, im no pro.

SO what do you guys think it is?? Kind of weird for it to be blue smoke considering the smoke does go away, though i do smell some of the fumes still while driving

[eLtrix]

Anyone?

[butterfingers]

My brother's pulsar has the same issue with smoking in the morning, Its not condensation i tell ya. It blow heaps of white smoke in some mornings that it goes into the next door neighbours yard. I did some research and apparently White smoke in the morning is caused by oil leaking into the combustion chamber overnight. His oil is not milky aswell as its fine, so is the coolant.

So we concluded that the engine is worn out seen better days and it needs to be rebuilt. For now, we use thicker oil and that seems to help abit. It DOES go away after its warmed up. Although I'm not sure if you got the same situation.

Worn out? must have been thrashed.

i dont see how normal driving accompanied with regular maintenance can lead to such drastic wear unless the engine was extremely unreliable in the first place and was built with mud and play-do.

[dougie_504]

Have you had a pressure test done? Blown head gaskets don't always mess up you oil but can burn out a little coolant.

[eLtrix]

Nope. Haven't done a pressure test yet. Wouldn't know where to begin with that. Though my coolant level is just about the same every morning

[migoreng]

Any idea what this could be? Any help would be greatly appreciated

It's winter...

Haven't you seen other cars around your area blow white smoke in the morning? It's just steam/condensation in the exhaust system.

And you shouldn't idle for 20 mins. Start, do whatever you need to do for 30secs-1min then drive gently for 5-10mins.

[eLtrix]

It's winter...

Haven't you seen other cars around your area blow white smoke in the morning? It's just steam/condensation in the exhaust system.

And you shouldn't idle for 20 mins. Start, do whatever you need to do for 30secs-1min then drive gently for 5-10mins.

Yeah I have seen white smoke from a cold day on a lot of cars. But I do not see cars which puff so much smoke on a winter day that it would fly over my fence and cover their back yard completely

[Drifter995]

Do a pressure check on the radiator. If it's your headgasket, and you're driving it like that, you could be in for more than just a headgasket replacement... you could blow your radiator and some other bad things.
As said by somebody else, headgasket doesn't always mean water to oil, it can also be oil to engine and water to engine.

Get that checked out, if it's headgasket, bad luck.

[migoreng]

Monitor your oil and coolant overflow levels over 1000km or so.

Then see if you've lost a significant amount of anything...

[eLtrix]

Been monitoring it. And I'm not losing anything. My temperature gauge doesn't fluctuate either. List stays in that spot just. Under tar half way mark

[IV73CI]

Mayb you've got a blown oil spark plug/cam seal.

Causing it to burn and blow white smoke..

[eLtrix]

So many different opinions. What do

[IV73CI]

So many different opinions. What do

Check ur spark plugs ad see if its dark and oily.. If it is then you need to change the spark plug oil seals x 4. This should stop the white smoke.

[Super-DA9]

a solution that will answer your question as to whether its worn and burning oil or not:

go to a shop that has a leakdown tester and have a leakdown test done.

then you should get your answer. you'll pretty much just get guess after guess on forums until you either do some testing or get someone else to do some testing.

[Drifter995]

a solution that will answer your question as to whether its worn and burning oil or not:

go to a shop that has a leakdown tester and have a leakdown test done.

then you should get your answer. you'll pretty much just get guess after guess on forums until you either do some testing or get someone else to do some testing.

Exactly. Until you actually take it somewhere and test it, it's purely speculation, and you're going to have tons of different views.

[Setanta]

Yup - diagnosing via internet is guesswork and is like checking the net for a medical diagnosis - the only real answer is going to be from the guy that slips on the rubber glove and does some probing.

[eLtrix]

Cool ill snoop around in my local area if anyone does it....
Any recommendations as to a spot i should go to? Im in S.E Burbs

Thanks for all the help so far guys! :)

[eLtrix]

So i made some phone calls in my local area and sadly not one could do a compression test....

But i've had some input on several occassions that it most likely is the valve stem seal, due to the fact that "it only smokes on start and doesnt smoke when the engine has warmed up"

[dougie_504]

Pressure test. Get one done at a radiator joint. They can also do a litmus test on your coolant to see if it has carbon emissions in it which aren't always visible to the eye.

Compression test should be manageable at any shop lol.

[eLtrix]

Pressure test. Get one done at a radiator joint. They can also do a litmus test on your coolant to see if it has carbon emissions in it which aren't always visible to the eye.

Compression test should be manageable at any shop lol.

Youd like to think that.. but the asians around here are hopeless... damn springvale, i asked if they could do it and they didnt have a clue LOL. Not sure where else to look, pretty hopeless with this shit

[dougie_504]

Drive to Nunawading. Straight down Springvale road. Find a place called Mideast Radiators near Maroondah highway.

If you want I'll meet up with you and take you.

[Super-DA9]

So i made some phone calls in my local area and sadly not one could do a compression test....

But i've had some input on several occassions that it most likely is the valve stem seal, due to the fact that "it only smokes on start and doesnt smoke when the engine has warmed up"

make sure you get a leakdown test, a compression test is no replacement for a leakdown. compression test will give you an idea as to whether its sealing reasonably ok, but the leakdown will actually tell you how much is getting out and where.

normally the symptoms for bad valve seals will be smoke at high RPM and under load, does not completely go away when warmed up. valve guides is another culprit in B series but don't jump to conclusions until you can prove what's causing it.

[Goku]

dont know if this helps but when i bought my eg it did the same thing. but it turned out to be just condensation. but after a few months, the smoke that came out from my exhaust started to smell like it was burning oil and i got it checked up that it really was burning oil. so i just had an engine swap instead. if your lucky its just condensation! hopefully its nothing major mate.

[Bulbasaur]

Your best bet would be to pm username 'charliebrown' he is located near melbourne. Tell him duc sent you to him. You will under good care from here.

[GSi_PSi]

In b4 bent crank Duc P Nguyen


dude from that video it looks like condensation

[Goku]

oh and i forgot to mention that if your car does burn oil, the smoke will constantly come out. even if the engine is already warmed up smoke will be coming out as well. well thats what happened to my civic anyways. just tryin to give u some ideas.

[eLtrix]

oh and i forgot to mention that if your car does burn oil, the smoke will constantly come out. even if the engine is already warmed up smoke will be coming out as well. well thats what happened to my civic anyways. just tryin to give u some ideas.

Only reason i am thinking its not oil since its not a constant thing....

BUT i think it might be a little oil that builds up over night from a warn valve stem seal or something? Since its pretty cold down here, i think the oil leaks over night which builds up (strange because oil levels are the same really... i think). But when i start the car in the morning it burns all that and runs fine when the engine is warm. I'm not too sure about this either, just speculating....

I'll try and get this checked out this week end when i have some spare time ;/. I only pray that its condensation, but the only thing stopping me from thinking this is that the smoke amount is way too large, im basically covering the entire street behind me just to warm the car up.

[Setanta]

Took my E30 ('80s BMW) to work today and it puffed a ton of steam out for the first minute and then a little on corner stops until the exhaust warmed. The E30 has over 340K kms on its unopened straight 6 - I think your 'teg might be ok. :) BTW, my DC2R with 41K kms on it does it as well - and I can guarantee it's not oil :)

You've eliminated oil (no oil loss)
You've eliminated water loss
You've eliminated an increase in oil (water pumped into the oil galleries)
You've eliminated gas contaminants in your radiator
Your problems stop when your motor is warm

Relax and stop "warming your car up" - get in it, run the motor for 30sec to 1min as already pointed out and drive it. Sitting it still at idle is not going to warm the exhaust up quickly, driving it will. The sooner your motor warms up, the better. Warm-ups are a thing of the past. Hell, I didn't even do that in my old EH Holden :)

Get it checked for peace of mind - auto mechanics can check for contaminants in your radiator using gas readings as an internal water leak blows water into the cylinders/sump and exhaust fumes/oil particles into your cooling system.

Until you get it checked, STOP READING THIS THREAD AS IT'S F***ING WITH YOUR HEAD! :)

[simply.shredded]

last point setanta made is indeed one of the best...

just get it checked to put your mind at ease

[Goku]

completely agree with the others!

[HondaTurboVtec]

White smoke or water vapor from the exhaust. You notice white smoke coming from the exhaust when you start your car. If it is cold out, this may be normal. If the smoke does not disappear after the car is warmed, you have a problem.

Transmission fluid may be entering the intake manifold through vacuum modulator.
Replace vacuum modulator
Cylinder head gasket may be bad.
Replace cylinder head gasket.
Cylinder head may be warped or cracked.
Resurface or replace cylinder heads. (Resurfacing is not a DIY job)
The engine block may be cracked.
Replace engine block.

[eLtrix]

Hey guys, thanks for all the input!! I'm going to take it to a mechanic when ever I can. Constantly busy, ill post back on details when ever I can if anyone even cares. Hah.

[IV73CI]

Let us know how it went with the fix or issue...

[eLtrix]

Hopefully gets checked out this weekend :)

[eLtrix]

YO! So i did a compression test. Cylinder 2 and 3 arent holding pressure so im assumign the rings are worn??

What do you guys think i should do now

[dougie_504]

What the compression readings?

Yeah it means the compression rings aren't any good anymore. But that doesn't mean the car will blow smoke. The compression rings and oil rings are separate so you can lose compression but not blow smoke, or you can blow smoke but not lose compression.

Still, I would assume your oil rings and compression rings are both gone, but really that should be blue-ish smoke not white.



Did you get a pressure test on your coolant system?

[eLtrix]

Err i forgot the exact readings but anyway, the smoke is actually bluish. To my untrained eye it seemed like just white. But taking photos of it and having a closer look at it, it really was a pale blue. And i didnt do it on my coolant. Im pretty sure my rings are ****ed

[eLtrix]

rreadings were 180 - 120 - 120 - 180

[Super-DA9]

rreadings were 180 - 120 - 120 - 180

when two cylinders which are beside each other have equal but very low readings it can indicate a failure of the headgasket between the two, thus passing pressure between each cylinder during the cycle.

[dougie_504]

Interesting. The plot thickens...

[eLtrix]

Looks like im just going to replace my engine now anyway.. hah

[dougie_504]

Get the leak down test. Find where it's losing compression. If its just the HG I'd recommend fixing it. Not all that expensive.

[Rage King]

Time for a D/B/H/F/Kswap for that (_)_) ass

[curtis265]

you need a proper leakdown test... low compression could be headgasket, which i'm inclined to think it is

[eLtrix]

^ Would the headgasket make oil leak through?

[Rage King]

^ Would the headgasket make oil leak through?

No.

It will though cause your car to overheat or loose coolant.

[eLtrix]

Well as of right now, as i have posted in a post earlier. Im leaking some oil, im getting puffs of blue smoke in the morning which goes away after about 10 seconds of driving.

[Rage King]

Well as of right now, as i have posted in a post earlier. Im leaking some oil, im getting puffs of blue smoke in the morning which goes away after about 10 seconds of driving.

Seeing that results of your compression test is not all the same and its cylinder 2 & 3 are the lower compressions, to me this looks like you need a new HG.

This is the reason why your blowing out bluish smoke and your oil leak is a cause of an leaking oil seal (spark plug O ring oil seals).

Get your HG replaced and head machined and replace the oil seals with a VRS kit or similar.