For the sound system experts! Need your help. 1998 Honda Civic Ek1

[Honda]

To keep things short:
- I currently have Kenwood KDC U449 Head Unit
- I want to Replace front
- I want to Replace back
- I want to Purchase Amp
- No Sub (boot is quite small but maybe sub if speakers are not good enough)
- Installation fee is needed

Sound preference:
- Bass/beaty
- RnB

Budget
- Value for money

I'm currently looking over here:
http://www.soundmaster.com.au/Car-Audio/Speakers/6x9-inch-Speakers/

Any recommendations on BOTH speakers + amp?

After doing some research, it seems the way to go is to get quality/clarity sounds on the front and do watever to the back. I also think that the speaker size for both front and back are 6x9. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[hoojee]

Front: 6" split system
Rear: 6x9 or keep original and get a sub.
Amp: 4ch to drive your fronts and your sub, and run the rears 6x9 off your HU.

Since you're looking for more bass you wont be able to achieve that with 6x9 at the rear in a value for money aspect. Get a sealed box too. You will get less volume compared to ported box but will be much clearer.

[TbM]

Whats your budget?
this should be in ICE section.


Front: 6.5 inch components, brands i usualy recommend to look at are focal and morel
Rear: nothing, better off spending money on front speakers, they are the ones you listen too.
Amp: 2 ch amp or 4ch bridged, alpine make quite good amps

Sound deadening and proper mounting is some thing you should consider, without it your speakers will sound hollow and lack bass, heres a diy if your interested in doing it yourself http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?163443-Dodgy-Sound-Deadening-your-doors the work i see come out of audio shops is usualy not the best so your better off doin it yourself if your handy.

[Honda]

Whats your budget?


Front: ?
Amp: ?
Installation: ?

Unknown, I would probably say 600-800? Provided that I source the products from cheap places rather than retail stores as the difference is about 200-400 depending on the product. Just a rough estimate as I don't really know the best prices for the one I want yet. (I don't know which to get! there are so many!!)

I'm thinking of sourcing the products then getting some place to install it for me.

Back: Considering leaving it stock
Sub: Have one lying around so I could probably use that

If anyone knows where to get audio products at cheap prices, let me know!
I see some on amazon from quick google searches

[TbM]

whats your location?
do you already have the wiring and interconnects to hook up the amp?

Front: 2 way morel tempo 6.5 inch $350 ish retail
Amp: alpine mrx-f35 $250-$300 online
Install: i have no idea what they charge as i DIY, i recommend you do the same.
Extras: Dynamat door kit $70 ish, 1 inch mdf spacer

[mocchi]

tbm ice master
ill report you to afp m8

[TbM]

tbm ice master
ill report you to afp m8

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/0c478a5b87102d3700fa683784d58838.gif

[Honda]

whats your location?
do you already have the wiring and interconnects to hook up the amp?

NSW Liverpool
I don't have wiring/interconnects



Front: 2 way morel tempo 6.5 inch $350 ish retail
Amp: alpine mrx-f35 $250-$300 online
Install: i have no idea what they charge as i DIY, i recommend you do the same.
Extras: Dynamat door kit $70 ish, 1 inch mdf spacer

I haven't heard of morel before. Would it be hard to find a place that has it on display?

Do you know any DYI to hook up and AMP + Speakers by any chance?

[TbM]

you will need to add another $50-100 ish for the wiring and rca's

fhrx is the place to go in sydney, dont know if they are close, they should have some morels on dispay iirc, listen to other speakers too dont just go off what i say

dont know of a diy but this might help, http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?161793-Basic-Wiring-diagram-for-Headunit-to-amp-to-sub. explains the basics of it, i can show you pics of where i ran my cables if you need some help

[Honda]

you will need to add another $50-100 ish for the wiring and rca's


Any recommendations on those? A link to eBay or a online shop would be nice :D

[TbM]

Any recommendations on those? A link to eBay or a online shop would be nice :D
i use stinger wiring and rca's for my car, they do the job well. Elite electronics have some decent prices and ship quickly, if you dont mind waiting it can be better to order stuff from usa ebay but that takes a while to get here usualy.

heres a couple examples of wiring kits which makes it easy, you can also buy the individual parts if you prefer.
http://www.elite-electronics.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79_93_110&products_id=1165
http://www.elite-electronics.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79_93_110&products_id=1214
http://www.elite-electronics.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79_93_110&products_id=445

[TbM]

you will only need 8 gauge wire and 2 ch rca's if you just running front speakers, if your planning to run a sub or more speakers in the future you should get 4 gauge and 4 ch rca's. to save you from replacing the wire.

[Honda]

This may be a silly question, but what is the difference between speakers and component speakers?

Also, what are the things to look for in front speakers and amps? Is it the Watts?

I've took out my speakers for fun and it doesn't seem hard to DIY (take out speaker and plug in a new one?), I think the main challenge is to tune the amp and knowing which wires goes where.

Choosing the system seems like the hardest task!!

[CRXDEL501]

Fronts - Polk - they love r&b
Amp - jay car , Coustic or something with decent power to power the polks
Backs - look at Polk again

Front polk splits on eBay like $190 shipped

Headunit I like pioneer

[CRXDEL501]

This may be a silly question, but what is the difference between speakers and component speakers?

Also, what are the things to look for in front speakers and amps? Is it the Watts?

I've took out my speakers for fun and it doesn't seem hard to DIY (take out speaker and plug in a new one?), I think the main challenge is to tune the amp and knowing which wires goes where.

Choosing the system seems like the hardest task!!

Components have a tweeter that separates the highs

What to look for... Yeah I guess rms and db sensitivity .

[Honda]

Fronts - Polk - they love r&b
Amp - jay car , Coustic or something with decent power to power the polks
Backs - look at Polk again

Front polk splits on eBay like $190 shipped

Headunit I like pioneer

It is currently $130 shipped. I like the price value, do you have any more recommendations? I like to keep my options open!

Seems like we have similar taste in music so it might mean that we prefer similar sounds!

[CRXDEL501]

Nah I like the polks
I've used them twice in two different cars

[mugen_ctr]

IMO id get alpine Type-G splits, they offer great all round splits and its not to pricey

Installed em into my bros Euro an they are fantastic, good low to high range frequency and bass is crisp.

[CRXDEL501]

Yeah I don't know about alpine

Used the type r's and didn't like them for the price

Way over priced

[TbM]

This may be a silly question, but what is the difference between speakers and component speakers?

Also, what are the things to look for in front speakers and amps? Is it the Watts?

I've took out my speakers for fun and it doesn't seem hard to DIY (take out speaker and plug in a new one?), I think the main challenge is to tune the amp and knowing which wires goes where.

Choosing the system seems like the hardest task!!
The difference between coaxial speakers and components(aka splits or 2 way) is that the coaxial speaker will have the tweeter mounted in the position of the phase plug rather than being seperate, haveing seperate speakers will give you better sound providing they are installed properly.

For speakers and amps its not the watts its the Rms or nominal power rating you want to look at, also the ohm rating is important.

You will only be able to take out and "plug a speaker in" if you get shallow 5.25 inch or 6 inch as the plastic basket in the ek door restrics the size of the driver, to install properly you need to cut out the plastic in the door panel and mount the driver to the door skin, heres some pics to show you what i mean, this seals the speaker to the door and gives it an enclosure so it doesnt sound hollow like improperly installed speakers do.

mounted to the door
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/IMAG0272-1.jpg

door trim cut to fit mdf spacer and 6.5 inch
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/IMAG0479.jpg

stock grill still fits
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/IMAG0274-1.jpg

The amp is simple, your not running a sub atm so hpf filter is off then set head unit to 75% of max volume and start withe the gain at the highest voltage and turn it up till you hear clipping/distortion then bring it back just before you heard it. attunate the tweeters to the level you like on the crossover and your pretty much set.

[TbM]

Yeah I don't know about alpine

Used the type r's and didn't like them for the price

Way over priced
probably wernt installed and/or amped properly, alpine make decent splits, heard them used in an sq car and sounded amazing.

[Honda]

Do you have some sort of tutorial when you installed your front speakers?

and/or do you know any good speakers that have shallow 5.25 inch or 6 inch as the plastic basket?

I have to check again with my car in the morning, but I don't notice anything different when i opened it today with the trim cut (second picture)

[CRXDEL501]

probably wernt installed and/or amped properly, alpine make decent splits, heard them used in an sq car and sounded amazing.

Lol

m8


I had a amp that could power most speakers you could buy

They were well powered

And the install, well... That was good. I did it myself so I would know

I've done enough installs to know what I'm doing and I spend hours just tuning my system

So no, alpines are not the best speaker for the price you pay

Polk are half the price for the same power rated ones and blow them away

[TbM]

Do you have some sort of tutorial when you installed your front speakers?

and/or do you know any good speakers that have shallow 5.25 inch or 6 inch as the plastic basket?

I have to check again with my car in the morning, but I don't notice anything different when i opened it today with the trim cut (second picture)
I dont have a diy for that sorry, its pretty straight forward, roughy cut out the basket then you mount the spacer by countersinking 3 screws into the mdf using the 3 factory screw locations after that you line up the door panel too see how much you cut off the spacer and door panel to fit over.

I dont remember how deep the factory panel allows for without modification so you would have to take out the speaker and measure the depth.

If you didnt notice anything different the basket may of been cut out by the previous owner, this is what im talking about

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/IMGP3134s.jpg

that restricts the depth and width of the speaker, its alot easier to leave it inplace and just mount the new speaker to the door panel but you get better sound using a bigger driver so the extra time and effort to cut the panel is worth it imo.


Lol

m8


I had a amp that could power most speakers you could buy

They were well powered

And the install, well... That was good. I did it myself so I would know

I've done enough installs to know what I'm doing and I spend hours just tuning my system

So no, alpines are not the best speaker for the price you pay

Polk are half the price for the same power rated ones and blow them away

Were they deadened, mounted to the door skin and service holes sealed? Woofer/tweeter on axis or off?

Thats your opinion, Ive been less than satisfied with the entry range polks ive heard. Regardless i still prefer morels over both and focals over morels.

[CRXDEL501]

Everyone's ears are different I guess

He wants to play r&b so I think the Polk are good for that

[PHO]

If you want good value speakers, and dont want to spend much, go morel. If you dont want to pay for the tempo's, go for the maximo's, ~$200 and they sound really good for their price. Another one similar (and just as good) are the crescendo Opus 1's. These two speakers are probably the best value for entry level sq.

I've currently got maximo's in the shitvic and they sound awesome for their price. Running them off a jaycar response 2x150 amp.

edit, if you got a keen ear, you'll hear the maximo's will be a bit harsh in the higher frequencies, only $$ to better splits will fix that, but I dont mind, the mid's are awesome!

[TbM]

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/products/reviews/affordable_65_two_way_components_review/

[Honda]

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/products/reviews/affordable_65_two_way_components_review/

Interesting read! You guys a spot on when it comes with sound systems!

I think Crescendo Opus 1 is suited for my needs but Morel does sound good too! As it is easier to set up for a first timer DIY as oppose to the Opus 1.

morel tempo vs Maximo is the next question! They are about $70~ different. But I wouldn't know anything about the specs! Is it worth the $70?

If i go with the Morel Maximo, which amp is best suited for the speakers? (Nice 4ch amp that will do the job well!) Or should i get a 2ch amp instead?

I know for certain that I'll use the amp for two ch for the fronts but may have future upgrade later. Or is it better to have two sets of two ch amps- Buy another one when the upgrade happens?

[Honda]

I've currently got maximo's in the shitvic and they sound awesome for their price. Running them off a jaycar response 2x150 amp.


Could i ask which type of music you listen to? also, is it the ek1?

What do you mean by harsh in the higher frequencies? Is that bass or vocals? I don't think my ears will notice

[PHO]

Higher freq = trebs = comes from tweeters.

Yeah its in the ek1. I had to chop up my door trim a fair bit. Around the same amount as tbm did.

I listen to rnb/hiphop/electro/trance.

I haven't heard the tempo's myself but I've heard they're pretty good. Personally I'd go 2ch for the front speakers and get a mono later on for a sub. But if you're planning to get a sub now. Might as well get a 4ch and have the fronts off 2ch and bridge the others for the sub.

Don't have much experience with amps as I've only ever used jaycar ones. The jaycar ones are more than enough imo.

Get the 4ch response "fully digital" (not really a digital, its a class D amp, jaycar just mistook it for digital) from jaycar.

100rms is enough for the maximos

[CRXDEL501]

Get the 4ch response "fully digital" (not really a digital, its a class D amp, jaycar just mistook it for digital) from jaycar.

100rms is enough for the maximos

good amp!

[Honda]

I think I've came to a conclusion!

- Polk DB6501
- Morel Maximo 6

They are both approx $190~ so it will be a good comparison.

@ CRXDEL501 and Pho: Which Polk/morel speaker model are your running? If they are the two above. It would be awesome if you could record a quick clip for comparison at the same volume level!

I think Polk provides a more stronger bass while Morel are more clear but has a lower bass kick than Polk. My ideal speakers are the ones that provides the bass kicks. I notice that speakers are design in one of the two ways? (my assumption)

[TbM]

Interesting read! You guys a spot on when it comes with sound systems!

I think Crescendo Opus 1 is suited for my needs but Morel does sound good too! As it is easier to set up for a first timer DIY as oppose to the Opus 1.

morel tempo vs Maximo is the next question! They are about $70~ different. But I wouldn't know anything about the specs! Is it worth the $70?

If i go with the Morel Maximo, which amp is best suited for the speakers? (Nice 4ch amp that will do the job well!) Or should i get a 2ch amp instead?

I know for certain that I'll use the amp for two ch for the fronts but may have future upgrade later. Or is it better to have two sets of two ch amps- Buy another one when the upgrade happens?

Yeh its a good article, interesting that the reviewer chose the morels over the opus even though the opus scored higher, I don't know anywhere that sells opus so I haven't had a chance to listin to them.

The tempos are more powerful than the maximos(and the polks) and come with tweeter attenuation which is a setting which allows you to change the tweeter volume in relation to the woofer.

you just need an amp that will output more than the required rms at the ohms your speakers are rated at, once you decide what speakers you want you can start looking at amps. 2 ch or 4 ch bridged doesn't really matter, just need certain ammount of rms.

you will be best gettin an amp for your front speakers now then a mono block amp if you decide to get a sub later.

[TbM]

I think I've came to a conclusion!

- Polk DB6501
- Morel Maximo 6

They are both approx $190~ so it will be a good comparison.

@ CRXDEL501 and Pho: Which Polk/morel speaker model are your running? If they are the two above. It would be awesome if you could record a quick clip for comparison at the same volume level!

I think Polk provides a more stronger bass while Morel are more clear but has a lower bass kick than Polk. My ideal speakers are the ones that provides the bass kicks. I notice that speakers are design in one of the two ways? (my assumption)
them recording it will not give you any indication of how the speakers will sound, the microphone will not accurately reproduce the sound and what ever speakers your using to listen to dictate how the recording sounds to you, give fhrx a call and see what morels they have set up on the sound board and go listen yourself, your ears are the best judge of what you like.

While I haven't heard the Polk model you listed I read some reviews from the Polk website on that model and there were people saying they lacked bass and sounded hollow ect which I have not heard said about morels........

speakers are not just designed one of 2 ways, there are countless ways to design a speaker.

[Honda]

Unfortunately, they don't have them on display as they are a high end store :(

Adjusting the woofer and tweeter sounds very appealing however it is best to keep my budget low and go for the Morel Maximo 6 + pho seems to like it!

Since I know the speakers to get, which will be the best 2ch amp that supports the speakers? Also, a link to the cables I need as I'm not aware of the specs.

I have to connect the front to the amp and backs to the HU.

Also some additional questions:
- Will the HU suffice?
- Will the battery suffice?
- Where did you guys install the tweeter in your ek1?

[Honda]

Higher freq = trebs = comes from tweeters.

I listen to rnb/hiphop/electro/trance.



Do you have subs or rears by any chance? or is the front maximio enough?

[PHO]

I personally want to upgrade to the tempo's. Just for the tweeter adjustment. The harshness of the tweeter just annoys me.

As tbm said, me recording will not do anything for you, besides for you to know what song I'm listening to.

If you're going the morel's, go for a jaycar response 2x150rms amp. Thatll be more than enough. Add a monoblock later on when/if you get a sub

My tweeter is installed where tbm's is, its probably the best place to put it. I don't have rears or a sub. Don't need them. If you really want have the feeling of the car being full of sound. Get a sub, or just run your stock speakers at the back from the headunit and keep them low.

You can run the maximo's off the headunit. But you will have a lot more mid bass if you amp it (a lot more). If I were you, amp them, why buy good speakers if you're only feeding it minimal power and not using it to its potential?

If your planning for a sub(now or in the future). Get a 4ga wiring kit now. If not. 8ga will be enough.

And yes, the best way is to listen to the speakers yourself. If you want to know why, go to any high end store and go to the focal board. Tell the guy to go from the cheapest to the most expensive (all of them) you will notice the difference, lower end ones will seem more muddy and vague. While the expensive ones sound awesome. I had a friend with morel's and they sounded the best out of other sub 200$ speakers

[Honda]

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j480/tbmindustrys2/IMGP3134s.jpg


Would I have to cut the deep hole where the arrow is pointing?

Do you reckon the tempo 5 or maximo 5 will fit perfectly in the ek1? They are 5.25inch

[Honda]

This is what mine currently looks like:
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg854/scaled.php?server=854&filename=imag0648y.jpg&res=landing

Is this kit any good?
http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/car-sound/car-accessories/sony-sony8ga-4-channel-8-gauge-amp-wiring-kit/451296

[TbM]

Would I have to cut the deep hole where the arrow is pointing?

Do you reckon the tempo 5 or maximo 5 will fit perfectly in the ek1? They are 5.25inch
If you look at the picture i provided of my speaker with the door trim on you will be able to see where ive cut.

I dont know off the top of my head, you have an uncut door panel tho so get out a ruler and look up the speaker measurments and answer it yourself.

[Honda]

I personally want to upgrade to the tempo's. Just for the tweeter adjustment. The harshness of the tweeter just annoys me.


Interesting.. How long have you had the Maximo for? and how deep are your spacers?

The jaycar response 2x150rms amp sounds good for about $160~ on eBay

I think it will suffice for the tempo's too as their RMS is 120W

[TbM]

I personally want to upgrade to the tempo's. Just for the tweeter adjustment. The harshness of the tweeter just annoys me.


i think the tempos only have +db attenuation(makes the tweeter louder). heres a quote from Winno about installing splits, explains it better than i ever could and should help you fix your issue.




BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER, TURN OFF ALL EQ AND BASS/TREBLE SETTINGS, TURN OFF ALL HIGH PASS AND LOW PASS FILTERS - SET EVERYTHING BACK TO FACTORY DEFAULTS OR ZERO POINTS.

There's three areas you need to focus on to begin with. I've gone into quite a bit of detail but these are simply;
1. Ensure your mids are mounted properly
2. Work on your tweeter angling
3. Adjusting eq settings in the head unit.

So let's begin.

If you can, make sure that your mids are fitted snugly with no gaps between or around them, their door spacers (if you're using any at all) and the door. Any 'leaks' will allow the sound from behind the speaker to come through and cancel the sound from the front of the speaker. This can result in a thinner sound because the bass is being cancelled out slightly.
Fixing this issue enhances the bass and let's the speaker perform properly and give you to sound you're supposed to hear. It also helps balance the sound of the whole system relative to the sound of the tweeters.

Some people even go as far as sealing up the entire door with sound deadening sheets to get truely striking results from 6.5" drivers. I'm not saying you should be going this this extreme but consider if you can, maybe sealing up some of the smaller service holes in the doors as well as securing your drivers properly.

Now that we have that done, let's look at your tweeters.
Many systems with tweeters mounted away from the mids and up high 'can' sound a little harsh. Some people choose to put their tweeters down low in the kick panels or much lower in the doors to combat this. It works but tends to result in a sound that comes from down near your knees rather than straight ahead at or very near head height.

Let's stay with a high mount postion for now and take a look at what we can do with their angles.

Trust me on this one, if the tweeters are in surface and angle mount pods, try swiveling them to face more towards each other. I'd even try swiveling them so far that they start to fire forward and actually into the windscreen.

Try it and see what happens to the sound. Most drivers start to sound 'quieter' when you are sitting out of their direct path or their 'axis point'.
Many high end speaker systems (I'm talking about speakers costing as much as or more than $100k) use this principle to stunning effect. It may also give your sound stage more depth of field so that it's not all so 'in your face'.

When you get things sounding better and you feel that it's as good as it'll get, THEN, and only then should we be moving on to some of the things your head unit can do.

Set your amp to play normal. Switch off all high pass and low pass filters because they don't do what you've been told previously. They're for other stuff.
If you head unit has them, turn them off there too.

Go to your head unit equalizer and if you can, select a frequency around 8 or 10khz to adjust. Depending on how effect your swiveling was with the tweeters will determine how much you may want to turn down the volume on the selected frequency.
If you don't have frequency options up this high, try choosing the next highest one down. Hopefully it'll be something above 5khz. If not, you may just be better off using your standard treble adjustment instead.

If you do have a few frequency bands up high to play with, try knocking back the volume a little on two or three of them and see how you go.

This should help things quite a bit overall. And don't forget that things will settle down from new as your speakers are played more over the next few weeks.

Take your time, and have fun.