Alternative PS fluid? Penrite HPSO (Honda Power Steering Oil)

[Fredoops]

Today I was browsing Penrites website looking at a Bach of new oils they introduced this month.

Then I bumped into this thing.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/power-steering-&-suspension-fluids/hpso_(honda_power_steering_oil)

Specifically designed for Hondas due to our "special" seals in our ps unit, I know how paranoid we Honda owner get with certain fluids. This Penrite is a full synthetic fluid at less or equal to Honda pricings, which is what intrigues me.

Anyone here used it before?

[jdm_b16a]

Well spotted mate. This is especially timely.

I always bought Honda Power Steering fluid from Damelian's at Leichhardt because it was convenient (on the way home) and reasonably priced (around $10-$12 a litre container).

However with Damelian's going bust the only alternative was an inconvenient trip to Rydalmere to Trivett's where I last bought HPS fluid at over twice that price. I was a bit taken aback at the price hike so this new Penrite product will definitely get a trial especially as I can buy it just up the road at SuperCheap Auto.

Thanks,

Peter

[bennjamin]

The only people that can dismiss this fluid as "to suit Honda special seals" would be the servicing departments at Honda or the warranty departments. Last time I spoke to a spare parts bloke at Honda he said to use only Honda power steering fluid.
Other fluids used in Hondas CAN be swapped and recognised in a maintenance schedule.

[jdm_b16a]

The only people that can dismiss this fluid as "to suit Honda special seals" would be the servicing departments at Honda or the warranty departments. Last time I spoke to a spare parts bloke at Honda he said to use only Honda power steering fluid.
Other fluids used in Hondas CAN be swapped and recognised in a maintenance schedule.

http://images.penriteoil.com.au/images/w320-h350/files/0HPSO.jpg

There are two issues here?

1. Does using non-compliant Power Steering fluid damage your car's power steering system?

We have been educated to believe/understand that using non-compliant fluids can damage the seals and/or components in the Honda power steering system. This has never really been a problem since HPSF has always been reasonably priced to ensure we all used it. But now I find that the cost of the HPSF has more than doubled - why? It does look different pouring from the container so maybe they've tweaked the formula. Who knows!

If Penrite have released a product that they claim is HPSF compliant then it would be safe to assume that they have rigourously tested it and found it to be good on seals/components. To not do so would leave them open to litigation especially in the US, both for making the "claim" and if the system failed and there was an accident attributed to the Penrite product.

So I would say that the new fluid is OK to use as a replacement for OEM HPSF but everyone has to make their own decision.

The Penrite website specifically states

Customer Benefits
• Reduces power steering noise.
• Extends seal and hose life.
• Good low temperature fluidity.
• Protects against rust and corrosion.
• Reduces leakages.
• Correct viscosity for Honda units.
• Compatible with OEM fluid.

The last two points are most important.

2. Warranty issues.

If your car is still under warranty then more than likely you get it serviced at Honda, and they would use OEM HPSF. All good.

If your car is no longer under warranty and you don't get it serviced at Honda or you do your own servicing, then there is no issue. You have to make a decision based on price, availability and ease of purchase. The question of whether Penrite has a viable product is neither here nor there. You either buy/try it, or you stick with OEM HPSF.

As far as price goes, it's not listed on the SCA web store but it may be on the shelf so I can't confirm the price. If it's in the OEM ballpark then I would say most would stick to OEM for peace of mind, but if it's cheaper and combine that with greater accessibility, I'd certainly give it a try.

Peter

[grifty]

it has been around for a while, I purchased it in late 2010.

i would stick to OEM honda because it is more expensive than the OEM stuff.....

[mocchi]

oem jdm is best

[Fredoops]

well it IS a synthetic fluid, if anything it should have better properties than the OEM.

In regards to Honda dealer know best, I have a story:

Some of you may know I have a thread about Honda automatic transmissions, until recently I was under the understanding that there is only an internal filter that cant really be replaced for the K24 euro, which is what Honda dealers been telling all the owners.

Only that it isn't true, there IS an inline filter, it sit on top of transmission, I even got the part number.

It wasnt' until I showed the dealer the part number AND showed them under the hood did they yield, then they tried to say it's not serviceable.... while giving me a quote for replacement.

[bennjamin]

well it IS a synthetic fluid, if anything it should have better properties than the OEM.

In regards to Honda dealer know best, I have a story:

Some of you may know I have a thread about Honda automatic transmissions, until recently I was under the understanding that there is only an internal filter that cant really be replaced for the K24 euro, which is what Honda dealers been telling all the owners.

Only that it isn't true, there IS an inline filter, it sit on top of transmission, I even got the part number.

It wasnt' until I showed the dealer the part number AND showed them under the hood did they yield, then they tried to say it's not serviceable.... while giving me a quote for replacement.


a different story.All im saying is I agree , when it comes to power steering fluid (if applicable) - genuine honda fluid should be used for piece of mind / warranty keeping.

[markismaximus]

Has anyone ever come across data or test results which specifically show how non OEM fluid damages seals? Is it possible that Honda just says "MUST USE OEM"

Could it be a scare tactic....

[jdm_b16a]

Has anyone ever come across data or test results which specifically show how non OEM fluid damages seals?

HPSF used to be a mineral oil based power steering fluid but from looking at my last batch pour it's very clear which leads me to believe it's synthetic. Certainly the Penrite stuff is advertised as synthetic and they claim it's not only compatible but imply you can safely mix it with OEM.

One site I reviewed suggested ...

"Its all about lubricating the seals in the pump, that the specific compound of the rubber seals requires that they be kept pliable."

My question: given that Penrite have probably "reverse engineered" the HPSF product, they may have used the same ingredients or very similar.

Another site suggests it has to with the requirements of the rack and pinion, the additives in HPSF lubricate the joints.

Peter

[bennjamin]

What's the bet Peter - that even if the Penrite is 100% the same product , (if you use this product) a honda dealer will still try and squirm their way out of a warranty job or recall relative to the ps rack !

[Fredoops]

What's the bet Peter - that even if the Penrite is 100% the same product , (if you use this product) a honda dealer will still try and squirm their way out of a warranty job or recall relative to the ps rack !

and that is the company's problem not the product.

this kind of peace of mind is like being held hostage... not exactly kosher

[jdm_b16a]

(if you use this product) a honda dealer will still try and squirm their way out of a warranty job or recall relative to the ps rack !

Agreed. I would use OEM if my car was under warranty. In fact, I may continue to use OEM in my older cars. It's just very inconvenient to buy.

Here's a story as to why I find it inconvenient:

I have to travel to Rydalmere to an out-of-the-way industrial park to get to the dealership's spare parts centre.

But why don't I go to another dealer you ask? Well, twice I tried doing just that.

I diverted off the Freeway to go to a dealership on Parramatta Road at Homebush. There's nowhere to park but I finally parked up the side road a short distance, walked back, went in to the Spare Parts office. No-one on the counter, so I ring the bell, and a very young guy comes out, says he's new but no-one can help me because everyone's busy. I say all I want is a bottle of HPSF but he doesn't know where it is or how to use the computer to print an invoice. I tell him its not good enough and leave. About a week later I try again. Again no-one in the department so I leave. This same dealership would not give an inch when we were negotiating to buy an new Honda Accord Euro Luxury back in 2005. I'll never ever go there again.

Peter

[Daveho1]

castrol have recomended using fork oil 15 for years... no idea why but i like castrol and in my experiance they have always made a good product and there tech line is on the ball.

[stndrd]

At the end of the day tho how is Honda going to prove that you are using non genuine PS fluid? Dealerships arenot equiped to chemically test what fluid you have and they will not know unless you tell them you are using non genuine fluid.

If they were to release a recall on a rack, pump or hose, 99 times out of 100 it is due to a design fault, not because you are using a non genuine fluid.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen pump seals start leaking within 12 months when you use Dexron as a PS fluid in Honda's, but if Penrite claim that their oil meets OEM requirements, I personally would not doubt it for a second

[mocchi]

jdm is best

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customavatars/avatar11984_24.gif

[Glocker]

mekong is best

[vs2306]

castrol have recomended using fork oil 15 for years... no idea why but i like castrol and in my experiance they have always made a good product and there tech line is on the ball.

I'm also trying to work out if all this talk about non genuine power steering fluid is true or not. Has anyone ever had problems when using aftermarket PS fluid (Specifically Castrol Fork Oil 15W)? I've heard the same things with Gearbox Oil, but Castrol Manual Transmission Fluid seems to working fine on my 98 Integra.

Started a thread specific for my car:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?180504-Integra-GSi-Power...

[grifty]

Will it work fine? Yes it will

Will it damage the seals? Who knows, only time will tell....

[stndrd]

I have been using HPSO for the last couple of years and have not had a single drama arise from it

[Dyinghearts]

DONT USE PENRITE HPSO. eversince i changed from oem, my rack started to fricken leak, so i brought a used rack and took that rack to the specialist for pressure test and i got the all good sign. swaped the racks. a few months or so later it started to leak again.

[Fredoops]

DONT USE PENRITE HPSO. eversince i changed from oem, my rack started to fricken leak, so i brought a used rack and took that rack to the specialist for pressure test and i got the all good sign. swaped the racks. a few months or so later it started to leak again.
your problem isnt the fluids... time to check your seals.

[bennjamin]

your problem isnt the fluids... time to check your seals.


Apart from a very strange coincidence - his post strongly implies "...it is the choice of fluid."
He said he used cheaper fluid for awhile , rack leaked - got a new rack then continued to use same fluid and new rack leaked again. I would bet if you got another rack and used the same
fluid it will leak again lol.

Out of interest Dyinghearts - where did the fluid leak from ?

[Dyinghearts]

Apart from a very strange coincidence - his post strongly implies "...it is the choice of fluid."
He said he used cheaper fluid for awhile , rack leaked - got a new rack then continued to use same fluid and new rack leaked again. I would bet if you got another rack and used the same
fluid it will leak again lol.

Out of interest Dyinghearts - where did the fluid leak from ?

from what i saw on my old rack. its the end seals, i trust the steering specialist that he did his job and paid him 300ish for him to check the seals before i put them on my eg myself. so i probably have to blame the fluid itself or i should go find a thicker oil or oem honda if they have one. any suggestion? if anyone willing to donate a steering to me that doesnt leak, i would defs try again with HPSO and try to prove something out of it.

its a shame that brought everything else new. new dustboot, inner and outer tie rod.