[CL9] To anyone who has HIDs on their CL9

[thezaza101]

This might be just me but...

I installed HID's in my cl9 over the weekend and i've been loving them, but yesterday i was driving behind my mate who has an MR2 (which is extremely low) told my that my lights were pretty much blinding him.

Now i've never been in a car with stock HIDs so i cant compare the brightness.

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in this picture you can see that the HIDs can be seen on the building with is at least 100 meters away.

I will attach more images later if needed, but when you installed HIDs were they that bright? did you change the angle of the lights. (these are 6000k lights running off a 55W ballast)

[carab]

These are projector headlights yes? did you readjust the headlights when you installed them? You need to adjust them, they are not plug-n-play as most are advertised due to the nature of the globe. Line the car up infront of a wall about 30 metres away, the top of the beam ideally should be level or just below the height of your headlights. Look for an adjustment point on the top of the headlight under the hood.

[wammies]

If you've installed an aftermarket HID kit in a stock halogen headlight housing, it will glare a lot since they're not designed to have HIDs. Essentially, it will scatter light everywhere and that's what causes all the glare. When you have 'projector headlights' which designed for HIDs as it gives a very sharp, even cut-off and also spreads the light evenly.

Take a picture of your headlight, front on, during the day and people will be able to tell you what your problem is.

If it's what I'm thinking, you've probably got the Accord Euro, not luxury, only the luxury models have factory fitted HIDs. So you will need to 'retrofit' the HIDs if that's the case for a proper, legal install.

[I CU2]

So you will need to 'retrofit' the HIDs if that's the case for a proper, legal install.

All aftermarket retrofits are illegal (most of them are the really dodgy buy ballast online and plug into headlight set up).

There's a few reasons as to why your HID's are glaring:

1. Not adjusted properly (as they do need an auto-adjusting systems for hills and when the ground isn't level)
2. Halogen lens cut-off
3. 55w - all manufacturer stock ones are 35w, be careful and check the heat of the 55w as they might melt your headlights.

Here's a copy of what I posted on another thread:


Halogen projectors aren't meant to be used with HID bulbs, their internal cutoff line is focused for halogens.

http://www.pakwheels.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/3.jpeg

That's HID's in a halogen projector. Notice how the light is still focusing towards the middle and there is still scatter above the cutoff line (which is what causes glare towards oncoming traffic).

This is a HID designed projector:

http://www.pakwheels.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/1.jpeg

Notice how sharp the cutoff is in comparison and that there's no upward flaring. The beam pattern has a nice consistency throughout and is not focused in the centre or any particular area.

Note: The cut-off of these pictures is slightly higher on the right, ours is reversed. So we'd have a higher section on the left in order to prevent oncoming glare and to light up the footpath - I'm not sure if that's what you meant by focusing to the left? but the light intensity should be consistent throughout.

[curtis265]

IMO it doesn't really matter, either way if you have that particular colour it's more penetrating than the warm white halogen colour.

So even if you had factory HIDs you'd still blind him (think chrysler 300c)

[I CU2]

So even if you had factory HIDs you'd still blind him (think chrysler 300c)

Yep, I've seen other stock HID's which are quite glarey as well (mind you some of them have been other Euro's :P). In say that, what would matter but is if you were in a crash and the other driver claimed visibility issues from your car. Generally, insurance companies would try as hard as they can to get out from paying out for your/other persons car if you have any illegal mods which lead to the accident somewhat like non-ADR approved headlights = not roadworthy = no insurance.

[thezaza101]

If you've installed an aftermarket HID kit in a stock halogen headlight housing, it will glare a lot since they're not designed to have HIDs. Essentially, it will scatter light everywhere and that's what causes all the glare. When you have 'projector headlights' which designed for HIDs as it gives a very sharp, even cut-off and also spreads the light evenly.

Take a picture of your headlight, front on, during the day and people will be able to tell you what your problem is.

If it's what I'm thinking, you've probably got the Accord Euro, not luxury, only the luxury models have factory fitted HIDs. So you will need to 'retrofit' the HIDs if that's the case for a proper, legal install.

Will do, i had a feeling i will need to do something to the headlights.


These are projector headlights yes? did you readjust the headlights when you installed them? You need to adjust them, they are not plug-n-play as most are advertised due to the nature of the globe. Line the car up infront of a wall about 30 metres away, the top of the beam ideally should be level or just below the height of your headlights. Look for an adjustment point on the top of the headlight under the hood.

Are there any instructions for this somewhere? I'll have to look at them this weekend when i have more time.

[charliebrown]

take them out please... i fukin hate kunts that blow their stupid ebay HIDs in my face. usually slam my brakes so they fuk off. piss me off to no end

[curtis265]

Will do, i had a feeling i will need to do something to the headlights.



Are there any instructions for this somewhere? I'll have to look at them this weekend when i have more time.

have a look in your manual. they'll point you to the little screw that you need to turn

[carab]

oh wow i didnt read the 55watt part... that's excessive and would only be needed for the outback where you need the extra power and can justify it. at very least switch to a 35watt globe, but by the time you angle them so far down that your not glaring them into oncoming cars, you will have better results with high quality halogens than the HID.

Spend the money and find some Luxury HID headlights and swap to those if you really want the HID's

[natnat]

again, non-ADR approved headlights = not roadworthy = no insurance. but, it's your car, your money, your choice, just be prepared and save up enough fund (a lot if they other party is a Merc) to pay the other party's claim.

i also heard a story of a car burnt down because of cheap quality ballasts going very wrong.

[Andy]

I'm pretty sure all euros come with projector headlights(low beams).. however the non lux-model headlights don't come with the auto leveling system, which makes it illegal to install after-market HIDs

[HunterZero]

I'm pretty sure all euros come with projector headlights(low beams).. however the non lux-model headlights don't come with the auto leveling system, which makes it illegal to install after-market HIDs

Base model Euro has halogen projectors. Lux model Euro has HID projectors. They are both projectors, but are optically different. You can't adjust a halogen projector to work with HID bulbs because the emitted light pattern is different. HID bulbs in halogen projectors will glare all over the place.

HIDs are brighter, but the HID projectors are designed to have a sharp beam cutoff that stops them being completely blinding to oncoming cars and people you are following.

For HIDs to be ADR compliant, you also need auto levellers AND headlight washers.

- HZ

[curtis265]

base model euro has halogen projectors. Lux model euro has hid projectors. They are both projectors, but are optically different. You can't adjust a halogen projector to work with hid bulbs because the emitted light pattern is different. Hid bulbs in halogen projectors will glare all over the place.

hids are brighter, but the hid projectors are designed to have a sharp beam cutoff that stops them being completely blinding to oncoming cars and people you are following.

For hids to be adr compliant, you also need auto levellers and headlight washers.

- hz

repped

[Andy]

Base model Euro has halogen projectors. Lux model Euro has HID projectors. They are both projectors, but are optically different. You can't adjust a halogen projector to work with HID bulbs because the emitted light pattern is different. HID bulbs in halogen projectors will glare all over the place.

HIDs are brighter, but the HID projectors are designed to have a sharp beam cutoff that stops them being completely blinding to oncoming cars and people you are following.

For HIDs to be ADR compliant, you also need auto levellers AND headlight washers.

- HZ

ty for clarifying things :D

[wammies]

All aftermarket retrofits are illegal (most of them are the really dodgy buy ballast online and plug into headlight set up).



Do you even know what retrofitting is.. there's nothing stating that it's illegal, in VIC anyways.
What you're doing is putting an actual HID projector lens into halogen headlight housing, so this ensures that you get the same 'cutoff' as a "HID designed projector"

So in his case, he's going to need to swap out the halogen projector to a HID one.

[I CU2]

Do you even know what retrofitting is.. there's nothing stating that it's illegal, in VIC anyways.
What you're doing is putting an actual HID projector lens into halogen headlight housing, so this ensures that you get the same 'cutoff' as a "HID designed projector"

So in his case, he's going to need to swap out the halogen projector to a HID one.

So I'm guessing that he'll find a wrecked Euro Luxury and transfer over the auto-level system and connect up the washers etc. as well as the headlights with an engineering certificate?

The act of retrofitting isn't illegal, the use of the HID globes in a set-up not designed for them is.

It can be done legally but it's quite expensive. So technically you are right in the fact that it can be done legally but usually the costs aren't worth it and people just use the dodgy eBay setup (Few grand vs $40).

[thezaza101]

So the general census is its a bad idea and don't do it? I would have gone to the trouble of getting HID projector housings but from what I gather they will still be illegal and void my insurance (i'd rather keep my savings than have shiny headlights)?

Seeing as I've already invested in LEDs for my car and my external and internal T10 bulbs are white (incl my parkers), I should get something like Phillips crystal visions to match? as far as i can tell they are halogen but are much whiter than stock lights, and should be fine in my light housings?

And also what are the point of headlight washers? i clean my headlights every 2-3 weeks and i'm pretty sure they are cleaner than 95% cars running HIDs.

[I CU2]

And also what are the point of headlight washers? i clean my headlights every 2-3 weeks and i'm pretty sure they are cleaner than 95% cars running HIDs.

I think they're to prevent glaring in snowy conditions in Europe (when the snow builds up on your lights), they don't need them in the US but they are for some reason needed to meet ADR specification (imports from Japan with factory HID's but no washers are converted to Halogens upon arrival).

Look up Osram Night Breakers, they're highly rated as one of the best halogen bulbs.

[thezaza101]

I was just driving earlier, i was paying attention to where my lights come up to on normal cars (not super low MR2s), the light seems to cut off just under most car's rear windscreens.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hxWJj1rKYNM/0.jpg
Just an image i found on Google, but notice where the lights hit on the silver car.

My HIDs cut off like the left light in this picture:
http://www.dintek.on.ca/altima/images/projector/IMG_9984.jpg

One main [problematic?] issue that I'm concerned about is my lights don't cut off in a straight line like the above picture, it has a cut of that looks like this \_ _. This may affect traffic on the left lane if I'm driving on the right lane?

In my opinion (I'm yet to test this) a SUV/4WD/people driving with fog lights on, are more annoying than my HIDs.

I'll post a video so you guys can see what i'm talking about, but i'm strongly leaning towards getting some white halogens for insurance reasons.

[carab]

I can vouch for the osrams, have some for sale actually but I'm not sure on your fitment. See my for sale thread. They arnt a perfect match to the eBay leds (leds are around 5-6000k and that bluey tinge, osrams are more natural white at about 4k) but thats me being picky, most people won't notice.

If you want super white to match your parkers like the hids and don't care about brightness then there's Phillips blue vision but they are just tinted, not really much brighter. Your choice if you want high vision; osrams night breakers or style; blue vision.


Side note: Even though the HID's might also be say 200% brighter if only half of that gets to the road, while the rest is being scattered everywhere, then your back to halogen levels but now you've pissed the world off

[wammies]

@theraza, you're going to have to swap out your halogen projectors to a HID projector. From the sounds of it, doesn't sound like you're going to want to play around with it too much and spend too much money, so do some research on the light output for the Phillips Crystal Vision or Blue Vision bulbs (from what I recall, some people weren't happy with it at all, especially for the price they're paying for them)..

From the looks of the pictures, seems like you've taken off your front bumper, and hence taking off your headlights would be a piece of cake. Changing the projectors wouldn't be too hard in my opinion. But it all comes down to what you want and how much money you're willing to spend.

[curtis265]

\_\_ is how it's supposed to be

[HunterZero]

In my opinion (I'm yet to test this) a SUV/4WD/people driving with fog lights on, are more annoying than my HIDs.


Werd.

- HZ

[thezaza101]

@theraza, you're going to have to swap out your halogen projectors to a HID projector. From the sounds of it, doesn't sound like you're going to want to play around with it too much and spend too much money, so do some research on the light output for the Phillips Crystal Vision or Blue Vision bulbs (from what I recall, some people weren't happy with it at all, especially for the price they're paying for them)..

From the looks of the pictures, seems like you've taken off your front bumper, and hence taking off your headlights would be a piece of cake. Changing the projectors wouldn't be too hard in my opinion. But it all comes down to what you want and how much money you're willing to spend.

I would get HID projector housing but the thing is it would still be illigal.

What about something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/04-08-Acura-TSX-Euro-R-CL7-JDM-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHT-D2S-XENON-HID-BULBS-/150914159388?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23232f531c

I may save up to something like that but would they be enough to reduce glare, and i also have a suspicion that those are really low quality housings.

[I CU2]

What about something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/04-08-Acura-TSX-Euro-R-CL7-JDM-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHT-D2S-XENON-HID-BULBS-/150914159388?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23232f531c


Can't use LHD headlights on our roads I'm afraid. If you do, instead of lighting up the path in front of you and cutting off in the opposite lane instead you'll be blinding all the oncoming traffic and having little light for the road in front of you.

[curtis265]

I would get HID projector housing but the thing is it would still be illigal.

What about something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/04-08-Acura-TSX-Euro-R-CL7-JDM-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHT-D2S-XENON-HID-BULBS-/150914159388?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23232f531c

I may save up to something like that but would they be enough to reduce glare, and i also have a suspicion that those are really low quality housings.

you're saying it'll still be illegal.. and then suggest buying ebay stuff? which is also from the US?

serious though, changing the projectors is way cheaper than an entirely new housing

please take a pic of the current cutoff so we can see.

[Rage King]

For HIDs to be ADR compliant, you also need auto levellers AND headlight washers.

- HZ

Funny you mentioned this, NOT all cars with OEM HID came with auto levellers and headlight washers.

read my post here. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?166668-RB1-ODC-**Stance-Build-Thread**&p=3516746&viewfull=1#post3516746

Most new cars nowadays come with the OEM Philips H11 globes - they are rated at 55W normal halogens.

I sell and am using the genuine Philips HID kit 6000k - 35W CANBUS slim ballast on my ODC (projectors with optional OEM HID kit) and they work like a charm. I DID have to adjust the levels after installing them never had anyone high beam me from oncoming or glaring from behind someone....

you never use a 55W hid ballast/kit for use with LOW beams, as they will appear too bright - (projected or not) for road use anyways.

**keep in mind that the RB1/2 OEM HID (from the Absolute JDM models) did not have auto washers but they did come with auto levellers.

to OP. - from the pictures of your HID beam levels they appear to be too high and too bright. change your ballast/globe to 35w and adjust your beam levels and you will be ok.

EDIT: i see alot of accord euros especially with HID kits that are so bright - 55w types and when theyre oncoming - it is annoying i flash them back with my Philips 5000k Diamond Vision High beams!. people think just install and driveaway...what they dont realise is that you have to adjust the levels to make levelled at the correct height.

to be on the safe side, your beam levels should be just below the top of the REAR bumber when your couple of metres behind a car.(cant recall the exact distance).

[I CU2]

Funny you mentioned this, NOT all cars with OEM HID came with auto levellers and headlight washers.

They actually do as it is an ADR requirement for washers and an auto-leveling system to be fitted onto all Australian delivered vehicles with HID's in order to meet import regulations, it's just that the Germans conceal their washers better. They are integrated into the bumper for a straight flush look instead of poking out and covered as is the norm for Japanese cars.

The examples you gave:

Audi A4:

http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/90932/2009-Audi-A4-i003.jpg

Notice under the headlight there is a cut-out in the bumper, similar to the towing hole next to it. The washer is concealed under there, it's on both side of the headlights and the washers will pop out to wash the headlights if needed.

Mercedes C200K:

http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/dealer/carsales/119948882.jpg

Washers can clearly be seen under the headlights.

Mazda 3 MPS:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Mazda3-MPS-017-625x368.jpg

Washers can clearly be seen under the headlights.

NOTE: The Germans will only fit HID's onto their high end compact-executive series cars. The C200k Avantgarde and A4 Quattro have HID's as stock, the base models (which would be the most common models you see on the road) do not have a HID set-up and consequently will not have a washer/auto levelling system.

[Rage King]

^^..

thanks dude,

i know they are a must to ADR compliancing etc etc..

even from those pics... the washers are blocked with a cover... :eek:

EDIT:

The washer is concealed under there, it's on both side of the headlights and the washers will pop out to wash the headlights if needed

so who pops them back in? there are no mechanical part that auto pops in/out these covers behind the bumpers. They are there for EUDM and very rare ive seen an actuall washer on these covers. weird huh...??

ive seen these in person and most people have as well... look closely and u will see no washer etc - on some cars only.

regards,

RK

[I CU2]

ive seen these in person and most people have as well... look closely and u will see no washer etc - on some cars only.


No problem, the cars that you don't see washers on are the base-mid grade model C200 Kompressors/Audi A4 Multitronics as they do not come with HID's. If they do, then they are user installed. The Luxury Marquees like to reserve the use of HID headlights for upper models within the C/3/IS/A4 class in order to differentiate them from the basic ones (yes, Lexus included - HID's standard on only the $80k IS250 Sports Luxury).

C200k Classic/Elegance: No HID's stock = No washers/auto levelling system.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/01/111520606c5189_07.jpg

A4 Multitronic: No HID's stock = Washers and auto-leveller not necessary.
http://www.netguruonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2011-Audi-A4-2.0T-Premium-Sedan-FrontTrak-Multitronic-Front-View.jpg



so who pops them back in? there are no mechanical part that auto pops in/out these covers behind the bumpers.

I assume they're pressure based? All headlight washers are automatic (including your everyday Hyundai's with stock HID's):

Here's a video of them working: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kjwu6IdqP8&t=0m46s

(Notice how well Skoda is able to hide the washers, nevertheless they are still there.)

[curtis265]

Good info here guys

[thezaza101]

you're saying it'll still be illegal.. and then suggest buying ebay stuff? which is also from the US?

serious though, changing the projectors is way cheaper than an entirely new housing

please take a pic of the current cutoff so we can see.

Should change the thread title to 'Aftermarket HID's legality' lol, learning a lot from this thread. i was gonna post some pictures but went home from work sick and instead of pressing download i pressed delete on my phone's photos (thats how much my mind is working right now :/).

[Rage King]

i like how that skoda auto washes :) ... the only purpose of these auto washers are to cool the headlight covers to minimize heat exposure caused by the HID globe temps.

good info here guys

[natnat]

incorrect, proper HID bulbs run much cooler than halogen bulbs. they use energy more efficiently while halogen bulbs loose a lot of energy in heat.

i tested my cu2 luxury headlights with some snow foam while washing the car after sunset and the beam just scattered everywhere. the same would apply if you get enough dirt / snow / mud on your hid headlights, hence the washers are required to cleanse them.

[Rage King]

incorrect, proper HID bulbs run much cooler than halogen bulbs. they use energy more efficiently while halogen bulbs loose a lot of energy in heat.

i tested my cu2 luxury headlights with some snow foam while washing the car after sunset and the beam just scattered everywhere. the same would apply if you get enough dirt / snow / mud on your hid headlights, hence the washers are required to cleanse them.

Theory is right, but the physical examination speaks for itself.

turn on your HID's for 30mins .. then touch your headlight covers..... feel if its hot or cool....

The halogens H11 originally that was fitted, the headlight covers did not get as hot as the HID bulbs which i can actually place my hand on the covers without getting burnt... but for HID's it was hotter :(

[curtis265]

i like how that skoda auto washes :) ... the only purpose of these auto washers are to cool the headlight covers to minimize heat exposure caused by the HID globe temps.

good info here guys

not quite buddy, they run much cooler

dirty headlamp covers cause glare hence the need to wash them

Physical examination speaks for itself



blablalablabla -snip-

HID lights are available in different color temperatures, ranging from 4300K to 30000K. The lower the temperature, the whiter and brighter the light, the higher the temperature, the more blue or purple and dimmer the light. 4300K are the color temperature of OEM bulbs. Over time as they age, their color will shift to closer to 6000K

I chose 6000K as a good compromise of brightness and color. It is a bright white blue color (similar to the color of the car!). It is quite a bit different from the Sylvania bulbs that come with the car.

http://www.gjlenterprise.com/hidinstall/9.jpg

One of the concerns that I had was that the new bulbs might generate too much heat and deform the headlight housing. So I ran a test in which I let the headlights run for 1 hour, and then took their temperature with an IR thermometer. To my pleasant surprise, the headlights were actually running 5 degrees cooler with the new bulbs.

http://www.gjlenterprise.com/hidinstall/10.jpg
http://www.gjlenterprise.com/hidinstall/11.jpg

How do they perform? Very well, the Civic headlight reflector design seems to be able to handle the new bulbs with little to no glare, or other undesirable effects. I have had no one flash their lights at me, and have actually driven in front of the Civic with one of the my other cars to see how it looks from a rear-view mirror. The lights top-cutoff is very good, and the effect is no different from any other car with Xenon lights.

All-in-all, this was a well spent. I recommend it.:D

UPDATE
In the 9 months since I installed these HID lamps, they have worked flawlessly with no problems whatsoever. I have yet to have any other driver complain about excessive glare from them, and their ability to light the roadway is on a par with the Bi-Xenons in my other vehicles.

While a projector retrofit will give you the best light focus and cutoff, a good projector retrofit can cost upwards of $1000. This HID retrofit is probably 90% as good as the Projector retrofit, but costs only 10% to 15% of it. After using this HID retrofit for the past 9 months, I have to say that it is a great value.

2009 UPDATE
Since I last updated this DIY, the HID kit continues to work flawlessly. I have had absolutely no problems, and for the money spent, this continues to be a great value.

[thezaza101]

Sorry it took soo long, been really buys over the last few days, anyway what can you guys tell me from these terrible quality pictures. The lights look a lot brighter in the pictures because of my bad camera phone but they are a lot softer then they look in real life.
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