New s2000 owner. Advice needed for driving in the wet.

[charlie15]

Hey guys

Just bought myself an ap1 (coming from a monaro cv8) and have been reading through many forums regarding people losing it in the wet.

Any advice on how to prevent a sudden incident of snap oversteer would be appreciated. Any other tips would be great as well. Reading these horror stories had made me a little anxious!

Is taking it easy in the wet the key to avoid this happening?

Thanks :thumbsup:

[VeYzZii]

Mmmm CV8.
Welcome mate. A good set of tyres and just common sense. If you dont want to slide, take it easy around the corners, no sudden stomps on gas etc. Try to keep turning radius larger to keep it all held together. But that being said long turns ( like round abouts) the weight seems to shift and it slide pretty easy. Bumpy roads dont help and stickers on the road seem to get the rear loose. Specially on motorways. And if it where to happen, DO NOT STOMP THE BRAKES!
I actually think you will love driving the S in the wet, it just seems to know when you want it to slide and when it needs to stay put.

[curtis265]

right foot control..

i woulda thought u had similar problems in ur monaro no?

[EKVTIR-T]

Yeah dont run chinese/taiwanese tyres

A bit of common sense goes a long way too


If you get the chance maybe go do a skid pan day to learn the cars behaviour

[pure_na]

lol i know where you're coming from. i find the car a bit more squirmy than what i have previously driven in the wet, but i am on horrible tyres.

from my limited experience driving the car 'spiritedly' - as much as it can suddenly oversteer, you will find that if you're quick enough on the counter, fixing it is a lot easier than other cars.
also, this goes with any rwd, but if you're worried about low speed throttle-down oversteer, simply letting off the throttle and countering should fix it. at least it always works for me, but i'm no professional
oh and also, this one made me laugh but be careful when you've almost straightened up if you want to jump on the throttle. don't know if it's the camber on the roads combined with residue or what, but i've been driving in certain areas where the car is pretty much straight after coming round a corner, and kicked the car sideways when putting down power. it's pretty unexpected but i don't know if it's s2k specific :P.

keep in mind that my advice is coming from driving a fairly modded s2k suspension wise, on the worst tyres money can buy :P (temporarily).

[curtis265]

no that's any car

mate's s15 would wobble every time it hit boost

[charlie15]

Thanks guys. My monaro had decent power (244 at the wheels with 560nm torque) but it was manageable at all times. This car feels squirmish even in the dry! The monaro could be taken sideways with control just like my mx5. Both the monaro and mx would feel safe doing speeds over 130 on the highway where this thing feels like its off rails constantly which is weird considering so many people boasted about how well the s2000 handles.

This will be my daily and my trust in it isn't too positive at the moment especially in the wet

Will a set of wide wheels (possibly some rpf1 17x9 all round) help along with some decent tyres?

[curtis265]

Are you bone stock? and are u on shit tyres?

[charlie15]

Yep dead stock. Front tyres are Bridgestone s02 and rears are maxxis (pretty shitty I reckon). But they both have heaps of tread.

[euromandeluxe]

It's pretty simple as far as I see it.

1. Decent rear rubber. Not just tread depth, but compound quality and grip too. I'd replace those rears.
Wider tyres don't give you better grip in the wet, it's actually worse because having the same weight across a wider contact patch makes it harder to force water into the grooves.
2. Proper alignment and tyre pressures
3. (most important) common sense. This car has big changes in weight distribution depending on throttle and that can unsettle the rear. Dont punch the throttle midcorner, but more importantly DO NOT LIFT. Back off a bit to correct but that's all.
4. The AP1 has funny rear geometry where the outside wheel will toe out when the suspension compresses. This gives you the sensation that the cars rotating when it's actually not, so be wary of it.
I have a rear anti-bumpsteer kit and found that it makes the car much more predictable.

Most of all be careful. Well kept S2000s are becoming rarer and rarer and it'd be a shame to see another go!

[curtis265]

It's pretty simple as far as I see it.

1. Decent rear rubber. Not just tread depth, but compound quality and grip too. I'd replace those rears.
Wider tyres don't give you better grip in the wet, it's actually worse because having the same weight across a wider contact patch makes it harder to force water into the grooves.
2. Proper alignment and tyre pressures
3. (most important) common sense. This car has big changes in weight distribution depending on throttle and that can unsettle the rear. Dont punch the throttle midcorner, but more importantly DO NOT LIFT. Back off a bit to correct but that's all.
4. The AP1 has funny rear geometry where the outside wheel will toe out when the suspension compresses. This gives you the sensation that the cars rotating when it's actually not, so be wary of it.
I have a rear anti-bumpsteer kit and found that it makes the car much more predictable.

Most of all be careful. Well kept S2000s are becoming rarer and rarer and it'd be a shame to see another go!

not quite, the contact patch is still the same overall area - i.e. the pressure put onto the ground is still the same, it's not distributed over a larger area

the only way to get more rubger down is to have less grooves.. which as you've said means less wet performance

[Fredoops]

From my limited experience with and early model S2k (only a few hours) I found the car to be very twitchy , to a point where is borderline scary (the rear end doesnt quite snap like an early model 911 but it's not far). needless to say, it's not for the ham-fisted, cause you'll end up in a damn tree.

I heard there's a lot of anti-bump steer kits avail for the early models to change the suspension geometry to make the car more controllable.

And honda itself had softened the suspension setup at the later models to do the same.

so basically you might wanna look at a set of coils and an anti-bump steer kit if yours is an early model to rein the sucker back in.

[stndrd]

Another thing is a simple wheel alignment. Wont help greatly, but if you get all the angles right, it will make it more predictable

[charlie15]

Where would I be able to pick up a kit from? I can't seem to find one on eBay. Also I was driving on the freeway just now and there were grooves on the asphalt I wasn't even accelerating fast and I felt it slip a little and I was going straight.

[daevilone]

I'd recommend getting your s2k's suspension checked out.

Mine is perfectly controllable in the wet - obviously don't be a dickhead but there is no need to baby it everywhere. I sure don't and very rarely have issues.

go get it checked to make sure everything is alright - worn bushings and stuff like that will make these things worse.

otherwise, just drive it carefully and you will get used to it.

[Ten Four]

Mostly what others have said.
I've got RE002s F+R factory sizing and the bugger refuses to slide in the wet above first gear unless you're being an absolute twat. Yes its twitchy in the wet but only if you're going for it - I've no experience with lesser tyres in the wet however so can't comment further.

[black8thgen]

Where would I be able to pick up a kit from? I can't seem to find one on eBay. Also I was driving on the freeway just now and there were grooves on the asphalt I wasn't even accelerating fast and I felt it slip a little and I was going straight.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150493579045?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[le do]

get the toe arms from hardrace australia http://www.hard-race.com.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=20_67 this is where i got mine, top quality and a bit cheaper than the T1R.

[charlie15]

Sweet thanks guys will definitely invest In a set

Edit : it says for track use only how does it feel for daily use

[manonastick]

learning abit from this.
but if you really want to know how to drive the s2000 i reckon you should try to learn to drive with the limits opposed before doing anything to suspension. Coming from s2k owner that has his s2000 for 3 weeks :D
From the day i got i had rear end swing it self out from car wash place and from then i learn to be more careful. Also car with snapsteering like this moving from my front wheel drives i always thought i had to control braking and throttle more (if you go to cruises) you cant just move from throttle to brake as hard and its quite a thrill and challenge for me right now (cause shit tires). Isn't forgiving like my front wheel drives. If you change wheels as well stay staggered and not non-staggered as it more beneficial if for track but potentially more dangerous in in a daily drive. I cannot remember the details, but reducing grip to rear and giving the front end more grip you throw the balance off and in turning on track because of the wide width of the track you get more oversteer to degree that car is over steering fast enough in the corner to be exiting quicker oppose to normal grip in grip out turn. Anyone please correct if i am wrong.

Biggest tip though, is to have fun mate :D

[curtis265]

A good tunning car has to be something you can take out to the streets. The car must be fun, fast, safe on all road condition

[VeYzZii]

A good tunning car has to be something you can take out to the streets. The car must be fun, fast, safe on all road condition

Jesus. Ive heard this somewhere before. :P

[Hasbeen]

Mine is a very low mileage car. I swapped the rear couple of almost 6 year old Bridgestones, with lots of tread, for a couple of new ones. It had near new front. As I expected it made a very large difference. It went from twitchy to nice. Make sure your tyres are up to the job.

The problem I find with the S is the very quick steering. I have let a couple of very quick very competent large car drivers, [V8 Holden/Ford] have a drive of the S. Both were slow to respond to a slide, then over corrected massively, causing snap back oversteer breakaway the other way.

I have never had to put on opposite lock, just a reduction of lock, applied early enough has caught every loss of adhesion very easily for me. I am used to light short wheel base cars.

You will have to adapt somewhat from your long wheelbase, heavy car, which would permit some hamfisted driving, to being more precise, & gentle. However if you handled all that torque happily, you will soon get with the S, just come up to it gently.

[charlie15]

Thanks for all the help and replies. I think my first step is to change the rear Tyres as they're total crap! I'm thinking of buying some wheels maybe some 17s with 9" rears which should also help with grip. Ill also be slapping on some Goodyear f1 asymmetric 2s on all 4 as I've heard they're great.

Can anyone recommend coil overs which won't increase the oversteer in the wet - so something not too stiff and bumpy for daily use?

[curtis265]

tein ss

koni + ground control

[pure_na]

running buddyclub pro spec. imo they are definately not what you are looking for so steer away from them lol.

[stndrd]

KW V3 is my recommendation as they are a progressive spring rate and bump/rebound adjustible

[Dylaan]

I'm planning on going with BC coilovers.

When I first got my car I found out that vtec in the wet isn't a great idea. But lucky I had some experience driving other rear wheel drive cars on a skidpan.

[curtis265]

Why bc? Plan on rebuilding after 40000km?

[rickyboy]

Jumping on his issue also!

I am just a recent owner of an S2000 - picked up a 2000 AP1 with 32xxx kms on it! It is on 90% thread on Kumho's ...

I am having similar issues like OP with the tail being a bit unstable. I think it is a combination of a few things, noticeably is the kart like steering response, possibly the shorter wheel base and lightweight then my previous cars.

I am too a bit concerned and it hasn't been wet in Sydney! Would Eibach springs or a set of BC N+ help it calm down?

[Fredoops]

I am too a bit concerned and it hasn't been wet in Sydney! Would Eibach springs or a set of BC N+ help it calm down?

If you tune the suspension setup right.... Probably get something with progressive spring rates like KW.

[curtis265]

stiff anything will not settle it down

[Fredoops]

stiff anything will not settle it down

If anything you'll need to soften it like the later model S2k's

[jko2]

Check the alignment specs in handbook. Do not let a shop just zero it out!
factory rear specs have 6mm TOE IN - 3mm on each side - this makes it not step out as readily. also believe its factory 1.5 deg neg camber.
the toe in is very important.
AP1 model,

[charlie15]

So after a lot of reading and advice from here and a few mates this is the path I am going down for those interested.

Keep in mind that this is based on security of the car for dd not aesthetics.

1. Scratching the oem wheels for some buddy club p1s (in hope that the ones I'm lookin at are in good condition)

17x8 32 and 17x9 47 - wider wheels for more traction and grip

2. Fitting the wider wheels with some goodyear assymetric 2

3. Uk alignment settings

Lets hope this works