Steering feel..

[Parky]

I really love everything about my S2K AP1. The only thing I want to improve is the steering feel. I have to admit the AP1 has no steering feel what so ever. My previous Golf GTI had much better feel than my S2K. When I drove my mates MX5 and another's new GT-86 I was envious.

I know you can turn the EPS off but it becomes too heavy. Another alternative I read is the RX7 steering rack swap. What do you guys think is a good way to address this weakness?

IS the AP2 and CR models much better in steering feel..

[VeYzZii]

If you swap out to the FD rack, you wont have any form of power steering..

[aozora]

Really? Maybe your EPS is throwing error codes? I've never heard anybody complain about the S2000 steering response... in fact all I've heard is praise...

[charlie15]

Yeah my steering is awesome and I've got an mx5 as well.

[Ten Four]

Every forum I read people complain about the lack of feel.... I kind of agree. My E39 bmw has far more..

[VeYzZii]

Define 'lack of feel'...?

[Hasbeen]

I don't think Parky is talking about steering response aozora, & I agree with you the response is excellent, perhaps almost too good.

The turn in is brilliant, but you can't complain about the feel, there is none to complain about. He is I believe talking about that lightening of the wheel as the rear end looses adhesion, & the sudden loss of all weight as the front end lets go. This is not something you will ever feel in your S2k

I guess it might be an age thing, the mystery of it all known only to those of us with experience of cars built in the days before power steering, particularly of the electric type, made it's appearance, that is us older types. My venerable old TR7, & TR8 tell me through the steering wheel exactly what they are going to do, long before they can pass the message to my bum. A bum, no matter how slim, is a rather blunt instrument when sensing one's cars performance. Of course the old triumphs have no power on their steering to interfere with the "feel".

The lack of feel was not enough to talk me out of an S2k, so much else about the car is just so good, but it did come close. If I had planned to do much really hard driving in the thing it might have. I believe it is this lack of early warning feel that has led to so many disappearing backwards into the scenery.

Our S2ks are brilliant cars, but are not very forgiving. They are no more forgiving than the Lotus & Brabham open wheelers I used to race around Bathurst. I'm sure competent drivers can come to grips with the car quite quickly, & have an absolute ball. But for those like me, getting on a bit, or without experience of light reasonably powerful rear wheel drive cars, the limit should be approached with care, or on the track.

[charlie15]

Ok well in that case, I agree. I don't think this issue can be "fixed" from what I have read (which has been a lot since purchase).

As this was a personal issue i had with the car after I bought it (a week ago) I decided to throw on some 17" wheels with a 9" rear and fit (arguably) the best Tyres on the market (goodyear f1 a2) along with having the uk alignment setup.

All those slight modifications have helped so far for driving in the dry. I'm yet to take out the s in the wet. I really hope it handles as impressively as it does in the dry (with caution of course).

[Ten Four]

I don't think Parky is talking about steering response aozora, & I agree with you the response is excellent, perhaps almost too good.

The turn in is brilliant, but you can't complain about the feel, there is none to complain about. He is I believe talking about that lightening of the wheel as the rear end looses adhesion, & the sudden loss of all weight as the front end lets go. This is not something you will ever feel in your S2k

I guess it might be an age thing, the mystery of it all known only to those of us with experience of cars built in the days before power steering, particularly of the electric type, made it's appearance, that is us older types. My venerable old TR7, & TR8 tell me through the steering wheel exactly what they are going to do, long before they can pass the message to my bum. A bum, no matter how slim, is a rather blunt instrument when sensing one's cars performance. Of course the old triumphs have no power on their steering to interfere with the "feel".

The lack of feel was not enough to talk me out of an S2k, so much else about the car is just so good, but it did come close. If I had planned to do much really hard driving in the thing it might have. I believe it is this lack of early warning feel that has led to so many disappearing backwards into the scenery.

Our S2ks are brilliant cars, but are not very forgiving. They are no more forgiving than the Lotus & Brabham open wheelers I used to race around Bathurst. I'm sure competent drivers can come to grips with the car quite quickly, & have an absolute ball. But for those like me, getting on a bit, or without experience of light reasonably powerful rear wheel drive cars, the limit should be approached with care, or on the track.

Top post, explained it perfectly :)

[Parky]

Hey guys Hasbeen is right. Im not talking about response, that is great. What im talking about is 'Feel' the communication between the road, car and driver. When your pushing the limits this 'Feel' is very important.

In the S2000 this 'feel' is almost non existent. Its like playing Grand Turismo on my logitech steering wheel, i.e. its direct and responsive but has no 'Feel'...

[u mad?]

Take out ps. Learn to live with heavy steering.

Problem solved.

[beanz]

The s2000 was a relatively early adopter of EPS and it is only the last few years that EPS systems have begun to seriously compete with hydraulic / unassisted systems for steering feel.
Take the new 2013 Boxster. Despite the car receiving rave reviews the move from hydraulic to EPS has copped negative attention from critics.

EPS is almost always inferior for feel.

On the flip side EPS doesn't rob the engine of mechanical power that a hydraulic pump would otherwise draw. It's not all bad.

[Indie]

I don't think Parky is talking about steering response aozora, & I agree with you the response is excellent, perhaps almost too good.

The turn in is brilliant, but you can't complain about the feel, there is none to complain about. He is I believe talking about that lightening of the wheel as the rear end looses adhesion, & the sudden loss of all weight as the front end lets go. This is not something you will ever feel in your S2k

I guess it might be an age thing, the mystery of it all known only to those of us with experience of cars built in the days before power steering, particularly of the electric type, made it's appearance, that is us older types. My venerable old TR7, & TR8 tell me through the steering wheel exactly what they are going to do, long before they can pass the message to my bum. A bum, no matter how slim, is a rather blunt instrument when sensing one's cars performance. Of course the old triumphs have no power on their steering to interfere with the "feel".

The lack of feel was not enough to talk me out of an S2k, so much else about the car is just so good, but it did come close. If I had planned to do much really hard driving in the thing it might have. I believe it is this lack of early warning feel that has led to so many disappearing backwards into the scenery.

Our S2ks are brilliant cars, but are not very forgiving. They are no more forgiving than the Lotus & Brabham open wheelers I used to race around Bathurst. I'm sure competent drivers can come to grips with the car quite quickly, & have an absolute ball. But for those like me, getting on a bit, or without experience of light reasonably powerful rear wheel drive cars, the limit should be approached with care, or on the track.This is exactly right. There's a reason that most of them have been in a prang, and it's because they're unforgiving and uncommunicative. You really need to know your limits in an S2k.

[charlie15]

The only solution I can suggest which has helped a little in my s is to have the uk alignment setup carried out by a wheel shop. This helps ground the car so the rear end loses some of its tendency for being so tail happy. Another piece of advice is to just drive it carefully (which impedes dramatically on having fun in it, which is why I bought the s over something like a ve ss or an sti).

I must admit though, that after hopping into my mx5 yesterday for the first time since I bought my s (2 weeks ago) I feel so much more confident in my mx, I can throw it around like a toy and its just so responsive and accurate with everything it does. It's so communicative and I honestly forgot about that whilst driving the s.

It's funny though - I'd rather drive the Honda and I really don't know why that is!

I wonder If the ap2 has more 'steering feel'.

[Hasbeen]

Now I'm upset charlie, I feel like I've spoiled your S2k for you. Don't let it be like that, just catch up with you S & you'll love it again.

I raced up to F1 in the days when we still got old F1s out here to race. I was also a member of the original Holden Dealers Team, & drove GT HOs for Ford, so I've tried a few.

I always found that the quicker a car was around a circuit, the harder it was to drive. at anywhere near it's limit. This is why you get up to 20 drivers with in a second of the fastest time in V8 super cars, but only 2 or 3 with in a second in our top open wheelers of the day. You have to go to the F1 world championship, with the best in the world, to find half a dozen drivers capable of getting down to the last second in really quick cars. Those big heavy clumsy V8s may be spectacular, but quick around corners they are not.

What I'm trying to say is, you are more in control of your MX5 than your S2k, because the MX5 has a much lower limit. Drivers have to grow in ability to get anywhere near as close to the limit if their S as they can in their MX5, or my old Triumphs. You may not be as close to your S2ks limit, but you are probably going quite a bit quicker round that corner, another reason that if you loose it, things happen a damn site quicker. Time & practice is what it takes, no matter how much ability you have.

The first time I drove the F1 Brabham Repco, I was amazed & a little intimated at how hard it went. The next practice run, after a hundred+ miles round Bathurst I was complaining "it just won't go". Familiarity is amazing.

I'd not be too quick to "fix" that tail happiness. The more tail happy the easier it is to get it back & therefor to drive. I can do very extreme things with my TR7, & at its much lower cornering power & speed, it doesn't bite me. If I were to try that in my S, I would probably become one of those who disappeared backwards into the scenery. I'm getting on a bit now.

I always loved the old XK150S Jag. Very quick, [for the day], great brakes, & so slow around corners, you could be busy chatting up the bird beside you, while on a full opposite lock power slide around a hairpin in the national park. You had to get to be very good to do that in my Morgan +4, or in our S. So keep at it, I'm sure you'll master it, & when you do, you'll be going very quickly indeed.

[9large]

I've no complaints about my 2003 S2000 steering feel and response - they're both excellent. Note that the suspension and steering were modified in the '02 and '03 models (and then again for the AP2). I find the steering feel on my '03 much better - it's heavier, meatier, more direct, and has more sensation - than earlier models.