Helping a civic to Oversteer?

[FenrirWC]

Hey guys posting a question as my friend and I need a lil help here. My friend has a Ek civic with a b16 engine, coilovers, sway bars etc and he is trying to get into some autocross events. The problem he is having is the car suffers from understeer and try as he might he cant seem to correct the issue.

After taking it for a drive myself i understand what he ment pushing it through a corner just before the apex the car will start to understeer. In response to this I have lowered the front a bit which now sits about 15-20mm higher than the rear compared to the 30mm it was at. Running -2 deg camber front(increased from -1.5) -0.5 rear, 0 toe front 1mm toe in rear. tyres are 225 front and rear.

The above has helped the cornering but there still seems to be something wrong with corner entry. The fact that both my friend and I experience the same issue with different techniques (I drive an s14) i cant seem to fix the issue unless i slightly flick the tail round or trailbrake but this can't be done on every corner as it does upset the car.

Any advice on suspension setups? driving techniques? Ideally we would like the car to slight oversteer on corner entry if this is possible as some slight understeer on exit is "acceptable" for the owner.

Cheers in Advance
FenrirWC

[TbM]

Increase Rear sway bar size
stiffen rear suspension
run doral tires on the rears

[TheSaint]

TbM pretty much nailed it

you want a massive rear-swaybar some re-enforcement so that it doesnt tare away anything (ie ASR or tie brace), adjustable suspension (ie coilovers) , replace all of your bush's (ie hardrace or energy suspension) and put on some hollywood tires =p
4-point ultra racing rear-bar wont go stray either for oversteer

[rossirider]

You didn't change anything much. You have to go extreme to tell a difference if you want to see what settings do what.

Toe out makes the car turn in a lot faster but straight line is not as stable.
I'm running 3 mm total toe out front and back.

Thinner front sway (or take it off) and thicker rear.
More camber at the rear and up the psi on the rear as well.

That will be a good start and write back to let s know how you go.

[curtis265]

TbM's advice is spot on.

What sort of adjustability to the coils have?

Does it have a front sway too? and if so, how does it's size compare to the rear?

[butterfingers]

lift off throttle. over steer

[VT3C]

^ HAHAH you got it !!

Just running standard EG5 "VTi" sway bars all round and I wouldnt want any MORE oversteer.. even before fitting 7-point cage the car had a bucket of oversteer just from braces and coilovers.

I'd say your Toe settings are wonky if it's really bad and not lift-off oversteer.

[butterfingers]

even in over-steer, you are constantly attempting to under steer...

Only then will you have a true understanding of the four wheel drift...

[mocchi]

Hey guys posting a question as my friend and I need a lil help here. My friend has a Ek civic with a b16 engine, coilovers, sway bars etc and he is trying to get into some autocross events. The problem he is having is the car suffers from understeer and try as he might he cant seem to correct the issue.

After taking it for a drive myself i understand what he ment pushing it through a corner just before the apex the car will start to understeer. In response to this I have lowered the front a bit which now sits about 15-20mm higher than the rear compared to the 30mm it was at. Running -2 deg camber front(increased from -1.5) -0.5 rear, 0 toe front 1mm toe in rear. tyres are 225 front and rear.

The above has helped the cornering but there still seems to be something wrong with corner entry. The fact that both my friend and I experience the same issue with different techniques (I drive an s14) i cant seem to fix the issue unless i slightly flick the tail round or trailbrake but this can't be done on every corner as it does upset the car.

Any advice on suspension setups? driving techniques? Ideally we would like the car to slight oversteer on corner entry if this is possible as some slight understeer on exit is "acceptable" for the owner.

Cheers in Advance
FenrirWC


Increase Rear sway bar size
stiffen rear suspension
run doral tires on the rears

http://i51.tinypic.com/sbr055.gif

[FenrirWC]

Thanks for the advice guys the coilovers are buddyclubs i think (were blue and red/black) as for sways bars i completely for about them think there are new sways on there ill tell him to look for something a bit bigger or see if they are adjustable pretty sure the front sway was bigger than the rear but ill have to take another look at em.

And No we arent trying to drift it butterfingers :P some slight slip is all we are after.

I dont know much about civic suspension set ups tbh (althought i really want to ;) ) im sorta working it out as i go along and my friend is less mechanically inclined ha ha ha but loved racing go karts and has prgressed onto cars. maybe Autocross isnt for him :P
Thanks for all the advice guys

[Glocker]

Try running staggered rims, 15x6.5 or 15x7 on the rear and wider ones at the front.

[eren]

What about some negative camber on the front wheels ??? lmao

[FenrirWC]

What about some negative camber on the front wheels ??? lmao
was stated in the first post "Running -2 deg camber front"

Increase Rear sway bar size
stiffen rear suspension
run doral tires on the rears

After stealing another friends 22mm swaybar for a 2 days over the weekend the problem has been pretty much solved. The thicker rear sway on its second adjustment has helped alot more than the one set adjuster that was previously on the car. after a bit more mucking around and now running 2mm toe out up front and 0 toe at the rear, re adjusted the dampers in the coilovers and including with the previous camber and castor the car is running much better (which means i can now focus back to my own s14) many thanks to the helpful suggestions. Almost tempted to go buy a civic of my own now :)

[Kenninho]

I'd still set up the front to be lower than the rears, unless i've misread, the front is still higher than you're rear?

Turn in will be better when ur front is lower than ur rear

[DC2-PWR]

I'd still set up the front to be lower than the rears, unless i've misread, the front is still higher than you're rear?

Turn in will be better when ur front is lower than ur rear

Yes turn in will be better but you're putting more weight on the fronts by doing this. This then causes the ride to be a bit more bumpy, causing hang-time of the car staying in the air. Yes it takes micro seconds of at each time it bumps but then adds up everywhere around the circuit. Another issue is that you will cause more understeer of adding more weight to the fronts. The aim is to balance the car out for a soft-mild ride

I would love to add more info but these guys pretty much summed it up. I had the same issue of understeer but i went in depth by tuning my suspension and messing around with alignment. I added a splitter and an LSD which helped quite a bit. Driving style is also very important


Increase Rear sway bar size
stiffen rear suspension
run doral tires on the rears


even in over-steer, you are constantly attempting to under steer...

Only then will you have a true understanding of the four wheel drift...

+1 rep to you guys,

[.Dave]

i found when at wakey my rear was fairly stiff and it oversteered alot, a little softer and it was fine, less oversteer but not so much under

but seems youve solved it

[newpaddy3]

maccas trays under rear wheels with handbrake on.

[russell.94]

maccas trays under rear wheels with handbrake on.


haha wheres a like button when you need it!

[eren]

maccas trays under rear wheels with handbrake on.
Do i get fries with that?

haha wheres a like button when you need it!
Rep the kunt lol.