Sportivo/T-Sport or Type R?

[K20_Z]

I've been looking at options for my first car. I have always dreamed of owning an FN2. Anyways, I was watching a youtube video where a Corolla Sportivo/T-Sport had beaten my dream Civic. But there are videos of Civic's beating T-sports. I wanted to ask this question on the Corolla forums, but then realised the majority are immature twits. Which car is actually faster? And I have this list of criteria and wanted to ask the opinions of others to see which would be the better option. Speed is one thing, but the overall package is more important to me. Thanks guys :)

Sound: V-tec over VVTL-I
Which is faster overall: ?
Handles better: ?
Easier to live with:
Looks: FN2

[CrystalSkull]

Go drive both and go with what you like best.

[K20_Z]

I can't drive yet. I have a year to go. But I still want to finalise everything, and check to see with experienced people about which car is better.

[Stevil]

Mate the sportivo may be a nice drive but putting it in the same sentence as Type R !!! lol

I have a Civic VTi (1.8 sohc 104kws ) and I've had 2 battles with a worked over Sportivo at Eastern Creek race track. We both had the same Toyo tyres and although he had coilovers he got his arse handed to him. The only time he had me was down the main straight, he'd maybe catch up the 3 or 4 car lengths he lost in the previous 10 corners !! and my car has shit long gearing. Type R would kill a Sportivo !

[lolmclol]

FN2R ... never really liked the corollas I drove

[EKVTIR-T]

One famous forum member went from honda to a corolla named CB

maybe he will chime in with feeling impression

[fillit]

I've worked a lot on sportivos, I'd say get the honda as there is more aftermarket support and is cheaper (mod wise).

Even sourcing new pads and rotors for the sportivo was a hassle due to different sized depending on year and country of make.

It's pretty hard to tune the 2ZZGE engine too compared with the K20, lift has nothing on vtec as it's such a small power band, around 7k rpm to a tad over 8k before it hits the limiter.

Gearbox (c150) on the sportivos are pretty weak too, both my friend and I had issues with our syncros (I had a AE111 with 20V blacktop).

If you get a late model FN2R it also comes with an LSD standard, something that you would really want on it.

With that being said both cars run torsion beam rear suspension which probably isn't idea for handling, go for an EP3R if you can live with the bland looks and gearstick location (personal preference).

[lolmclol]

Inb4 ep3r vs fn2r repeat

[EKVTIR-T]

Inb4 ep3r vs fn2r repeat

lmaooo as always!

no matter the topic,type R debate will happen :p

[dougie_504]

......

With that being said both cars run torsion beam rear suspension which probably isn't idea for handling, go for an EP3R if you can live with the bland looks and gearstick location (personal preference).

Massive +1. Great input.

[fillit]

lmaooo as always!

no matter the topic,type R debate will happen :p


Massive +1. Great input.

Within the confines of the OPs options and the sake of getting into another argument about fn2rs and ep3s let's drop that recommendation?

Overall go FN2R, Sportivos look dated and it's practically a Corolla with a beefier engine without any modifications to the chassis. In a straight line, it goes alright (for a family car), take it around corners, it's pretty slow.

FN2R has larger brakes, 5x114.3, bucket seats, twin exhausts... soo many goodies you won't get in a sportivo, it's probably only 5 - 7k more, but damn.. it's going to cost you that much to modify a sportivo to fn2r spec anyway

[-JC-]

I've worked a lot on sportivos, I'd say get the honda as there is more aftermarket support and is cheaper (mod wise).

Even sourcing new pads and rotors for the sportivo was a hassle due to different sized depending on year and country of make.

It's pretty hard to tune the 2ZZGE engine too compared with the K20, lift has nothing on vtec as it's such a small power band, around 7k rpm to a tad over 8k before it hits the limiter.

Gearbox (c150) on the sportivos are pretty weak too, both my friend and I had issues with our syncros (I had a AE111 with 20V blacktop).

If you get a late model FN2R it also comes with an LSD standard, something that you would really want on it.

With that being said both cars run torsion beam rear suspension which probably isn't idea for handling, go for an EP3R if you can live with the bland looks and gearstick location (personal preference).

Not entirely true bro, Lift comes on at 6000rpm in the Sportivo and it cuts the fuel at 8300rpm, so yes, my EP3R has more 'happy zone' but only cause it revs to 9000rpm if I make it . . . funnily enough it doesn't keep making power over 8500rpm, so the power bands are very very similar. The aftermarket for them (2ZZGE) has grown considerably as they have become more affordable for the P Plate market. Having said that, you will find 100 times the goodies on the aftermarket for a K20 than you will for a 2ZZGE.

Country of make? Every Corolla Sportivo from 2003-2005 (which is when they made them) was made in South Africa, none were made elsewhere, there may be some confusion given that the other Corolla models of the time were built in Japan. I sourced pads and rotors from my local ABS, didn't have an issue at all.

I'm not going to comment on an FN2 as I haven't owned one, but I feel well qualified to comment on the Sportivo and the EP3R (I've owned, driven and modified both for a decent period of time now) Comparing them is really not a very fair fight. The Corolla punches above it's weight . . . for what it is. What it is, is a 4 door car produced in massive numbers that has had leather, an engine and gearbox and a body kit thrown at it. The EP3R is a proper performance hatch. Proper = Engine and Box, Suspension, Seats, etc etc etc.

To give you an idea, my Sportivo + $15k = My EP3 Stock Standard. As with any comparison, it all comes down to what you want from the car. What is it that you want from the car? Do you want to throw 4 mates in it? Do you need boot space? Do you like being able to walk into your local dealer and have them know what you are talking about? Etc Etc Etc. The list goes on.

If you are really keen on the Corolla, I suggest spending some time on the au.toyotaownersclub.com/forum site, if you want some tips on how to make one go faster, PM me. Otherwise, everything you need to know about the Honda's is right here.

Edit: Almost forgot, as far as overall driving experience and awesomeness factor . . . buy an EP3.

[HmGLuCaS]

i own a fn2r and ive raced a sportivo, which one is faster? i can tell u from first hand experience, the fn2r is faster :) i raced my mates sportivo, second gear drop and off the line, the fn2r comes out on top. All this racing was done on private roads ;D nothing illegal ;D

as for handling and easier to live with? go test drive them both and see what u like, at the end of the day it is gonna be ur car.

[Beechy]

it comes down to what you like i have a k20a eg civic,( also have owned b18 type rs and a few civic b16s) and have a sportivo rolla as a daily stock apart from air intake the rolla is fun and nice car to drive i have raced type r's before and won against 2 dc5s won by atlest a car length(raced them both twice) and my mates dc2 neck and neck from a dig but on a roll on start just before i come on lift i have him he has spoon exhaust cold air intake and of cause the dc2s are lighter, the only diffrence is that lift takes longer to kick in and it feels like the dc2 has more bottom end power, i have ran my sportivo at the creek a few times and have got 14.6 to 14.8 consistent but i mean with cams to help it come onto lift quicker it would be a wepon! and it is still now a competitor for the type r stock to stock the sportivos are underestimated. but nothing compares to a worked k20 but i mean comes down to your budget.

[fillit]

Not entirely true bro, Lift comes on at 6000rpm in the Sportivo and it cuts the fuel at 8300rpm, so yes, my EP3R has more 'happy zone' but only cause it revs to 9000rpm if I make it . . . funnily enough it doesn't keep making power over 8500rpm, so the power bands are very very similar. The aftermarket for them (2ZZGE) has grown considerably as they have become more affordable for the P Plate market. Having said that, you will find 100 times the goodies on the aftermarket for a K20 than you will for a 2ZZGE.

Country of make? Every Corolla Sportivo from 2003-2005 (which is when they made them) was made in South Africa, none were made elsewhere, there may be some confusion given that the other Corolla models of the time were built in Japan. I sourced pads and rotors from my local ABS, didn't have an issue at all.

I'm not going to comment on an FN2 as I haven't owned one, but I feel well qualified to comment on the Sportivo and the EP3R (I've owned, driven and modified both for a decent period of time now) Comparing them is really not a very fair fight. The Corolla punches above it's weight . . . for what it is. What it is, is a 4 door car produced in massive numbers that has had leather, an engine and gearbox and a body kit thrown at it. The EP3R is a proper performance hatch. Proper = Engine and Box, Suspension, Seats, etc etc etc.

To give you an idea, my Sportivo + $15k = My EP3 Stock Standard. As with any comparison, it all comes down to what you want from the car. What is it that you want from the car? Do you want to throw 4 mates in it? Do you need boot space? Do you like being able to walk into your local dealer and have them know what you are talking about? Etc Etc Etc. The list goes on.

If you are really keen on the Corolla, I suggest spending some time on the au.toyotaownersclub.com/forum site, if you want some tips on how to make one go faster, PM me. Otherwise, everything you need to know about the Honda's is right here.

Edit: Almost forgot, as far as overall driving experience and awesomeness factor . . . buy an EP3.

Fair call on the powerband, although in my friends car which i've been in/driven numerously I don't feel the power kicking in until 7k rpm. Although the Sportivos have become more affordable, parts are still quite limited, I'm a regular on TOCAU and parts rarely come up. Other than strut bars, lip kits occasional intakes and lowered springs, most of the parts would take a long time to find in the second hand market.

Yes all Sportivos are built in SA, however the problem is that the Jap ones are spec'd differently, e.g. rotor and caliper sizes, so sometimes finding the correct parts become annoying.

If you want to know what can be done to a sportivo, check out Xooms turbo one, alternatively the second one is my mates (ignore the car colour) but his mods are pretty spot on for the car.

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/7291-xooms-turbo-2zz-sportivo/

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/28348-kenshins-rice-rocket/

[-JC-]

Fair call on the powerband, although in my friends car which i've been in/driven numerously I don't feel the power kicking in until 7k rpm. Although the Sportivos have become more affordable, parts are still quite limited, I'm a regular on TOCAU and parts rarely come up. Other than strut bars, lip kits occasional intakes and lowered springs, most of the parts would take a long time to find in the second hand market.

Yes all Sportivos are built in SA, however the problem is that the Jap ones are spec'd differently, e.g. rotor and caliper sizes, so sometimes finding the correct parts become annoying.

If you want to know what can be done to a sportivo, check out Xooms turbo one, alternatively the second one is my mates (ignore the car colour) but his mods are pretty spot on for the car.

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/7291-xooms-turbo-2zz-sportivo/

http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/28348-kenshins-rice-rocket/

Agreed.

And LOL, I've known Bill (xoom) since about 2004, very nice guy, picked us up from the airport and took us to IMG to collect my EP3 . . . that car is FAST. And by FAST, I mean, makes your ass pucker up when he stands on the throttle FAST.

[fillit]

Agreed.

And LOL, I've known Bill (xoom) since about 2004, very nice guy, picked us up from the airport and took us to IMG to collect my EP3 . . . that car is FAST. And by FAST, I mean, makes your ass pucker up when he stands on the throttle FAST.

You must be a Sydney boy? I've seen his car/met him at TOCAU annual (I used to be a toyota guy, but now moved on, still keep in touch with them because they are nice bunch to hang around). Yes, I was definitely impressed at what he managed to fit into that engine bay (FYI working on it was an absolute b!tch, can I say that unless you run an oil catch can the plenum can get quite oily and cleaning it requires removing the front half of the bay). Although I am a little disappointed that he only runs 12s as he put ALOT of effort into it and top quality parts. I'm not sure if he has taken it to the track yet, as I would been keen what he could do around Wakefield to give a proper yard stick.

Can I also comment on how I dislike how high you ride in the Sportivo and from memory if you run BC coilovers you have to remove the rear trim to adjust the dampers.

However, it is a damn side practical compared to the FN2R, 4 doors and heaps of boot space, also you don't get every hoon trying to run you at the lights, totally stealth.

For the records, my friend did a 1.46.X at winton with the above mentioned Sportivo with semis.. an FN2R could do that with just semi's.. Mark's FN2R from TPNM got pretty close, I think he was around the 1.47 - 1.49 range with stock car and KU31s.

[K20_Z]

Thank you guys so much for your feedback! I was confused, and got the response I was looking for from you guys! My mind is now set on an FN2. I'm a Honda boy, and no VVT-LI will deter me from that :) I agree about the powerband. The XRS in the US only has 1000 rpm of real power. Just mixed messages screwing with me, but I'm glad I got mature answers from all of you :)

[baby_phantom]

Ep3 FTW!

[NightKids]

I'm so glad that OP decided to get a EP3R, great decision! You won't regret it...

[stevo1210]

I've worked a lot on sportivos, I'd say get the honda as there is more aftermarket support and is cheaper (mod wise).


THIS STATEMENT IS TRUE :). I moved from a 2003 ZZE Corolla to a 2010 FD Civic (considered to buy another Corolla at that stage as well), but then I remembered I used to like modding my cars.
I added a few bits here and there to my Corolla but as fillit said, mods and parts are harder to come by... there's not a lot of generic after market stuff whereas with Honda there's plenty.
Only problem was that when I got my Civic, I was in my early 20's... so I felt kinda old and didn't end up modding my FD1 and left it stock even till now.

[JOhnnyFD]

u can never be too old to mod stevo

[kurtiz]

type r all day long ...but those sportivos move for what they are.....

[JDM DC2R]

Corolla sportivo and the Celcia. They got the same power . But they weigh more. The tranny doesn't keep you in the power range. And the suspension soft and flobby. compared to the Dc2R!

[charliebrown]

It's all been said. Corolla for practicality and no cop bait, not a fun car. Prices for genuine parts are through the roof. Handles like ass stock, need to spend a lot (2-3k at least) just to make it handle on par with say... a stock dc2. Facelifted stivos cost an arm and a leg, not worth the money IMO.

I haven't driven an FN2R but it's nearly double the price of a sportivo, don't think it's a fair comparison. Would say go the corolla only if you needed 4 doors or wanted a reliable under the radar daily

[-JC-]

You must be a Sydney boy? I've seen his car/met him at TOCAU annual (I used to be a toyota guy, but now moved on, still keep in touch with them because they are nice bunch to hang around). Yes, I was definitely impressed at what he managed to fit into that engine bay (FYI working on it was an absolute b!tch, can I say that unless you run an oil catch can the plenum can get quite oily and cleaning it requires removing the front half of the bay). Although I am a little disappointed that he only runs 12s as he put ALOT of effort into it and top quality parts. I'm not sure if he has taken it to the track yet, as I would been keen what he could do around Wakefield to give a proper yard stick.

Can I also comment on how I dislike how high you ride in the Sportivo and from memory if you run BC coilovers you have to remove the rear trim to adjust the dampers.

However, it is a damn side practical compared to the FN2R, 4 doors and heaps of boot space, also you don't get every hoon trying to run you at the lights, totally stealth.

For the records, my friend did a 1.46.X at winton with the above mentioned Sportivo with semis.. an FN2R could do that with just semi's.. Mark's FN2R from TPNM got pretty close, I think he was around the 1.47 - 1.49 range with stock car and KU31s.

I'm not from Sydney mate, but know Billy through TOCAU, couple of the boys from Brisbane have been down to Annuals etc etc. I would imagine it's not alot of fun to work on, those things were bad enough without all the extra bits and pieces he has shoe-horned in there!

Your right about the quality parts etc, and whilst 12's sounds disappointing given the cash that went into it, I don't think he has really had THAT many cracks at the 1/4 and probably did so on street tyres or similar (don't quote me).

Agreed on the seating position, the Honda's are definitely geared more toward performance driving, hence the Type R nameplate, as we all seem to agree, the Corolla Sportivo is a Corolla with a few nice things thrown in. Nice for practicality, putting 4 people in etc etc, but as with any comparison like this, it really comes down to what you want out of the car.

[Jamboy93]

every sportivo ive seen has beaten type R's..

[-JC-]

every sportivo ive seen has beaten type R's..

My cat's name is mittens

[Jasemas]

Some info on Wikipedia about over revving the engine...

"Consequently, it is impossible to "over-rev" the engine with the throttle alone; a downshift from a higher gear must be involved. A typical "over-rev" can damage the oil pump, commonly disintegrating the lobe ring, resulting in damage similar to the picture at right. The oil pump is the Achilles heel of the 2ZZ, though incidents are rare and usually occur due to fault of the driver. Even the briefest period of oil starvation is usually fatal to this engine design."

[K20_Z]

Obviously you haven't seen them all. I've seen EP's and FN's beat Sportivo's. But at the same time, I've seen it the other way around. It depends on the driver I think.. Stock on stock with the same driver, the FN2 is faster, both to 100 and 200. Time video's on youtube and you'll see.

[DreadAngel]

Lol, you don't really get either car to go fast in a straight line, that's what Turbos and big block V6/8s are for. If you're referring to digs at the light, its always going to be whoever gets the jump so its not a good measure.

On the circuit, Stivos get their ass handed to them...

[K20_Z]

I really wasn't looking for straight line performance. Just a car which provides an overall "X factor." Which apparently seems to be the FN2 according to a few answers I have received.

[PHO]

tivo has no x factor at all. Lol. Such a boring car, mainly cause its just a corolla, with a different engine. No sussy differences.

Not to mention the clutch is so fkn bland and boring to use.

charliebrown can confirm how boring the clutch is.

[-JC-]

I really wasn't looking for straight line performance. Just a car which provides an overall "X factor." Which apparently seems to be the FN2 according to a few answers I have received.

Your always going to get that from people who own a specific car mate. I have an EP3 and I love it, so of course I'm going to recommend it. Go and drive them all and decide for yourself.

[dougie_504]

EP3>FN2>Sportivo

[Kenninho]

Good choice. Sportivo's overseas came supercharge in Europe and my friend said the useable power ain't no where near as good as a k20

[LAZYCTR]

I've owned a sportivo, which i am still a major fan of, good drive and power for what it is, but truely is horrible around corners. and now driving a EG B18cr and you cant go wrong.
If you have the money, go K20. But at the end of the day its what you prefer.

[butterfingers]

The day a stock sportivo can outrun a stock type r I wi kill myself

[DreadAngel]

It was already proven in BM, ZZT231 SS-II [That's the Celica with Superstrut option pack, 2ZZ-GE, etc] can't handle even the DC2R or EK9... Altezza even lost to both of them... Corolla T-Sport or Sportivo won't have a chance at all... Its heavier, less sorted than the Celica...

[charliebrown]

You can comfortably sleep in the back of the corolla with seats down if you're not a tall mofo. I leave a blanket in my boot

[Parvez]

I own a 05 sportivo corolla at the moment. Prior to owning the sportivo corolla, I owned a EM1 VTiR Civic. The EM1 only had a CAI kit for the vtec cross over, the sportivo at the moment is stock as well other than a exedy HD clutch which I had changed from the stock because I bought it with the stock clutch almost gone..
I've raced a DC5 Type R's off the line & kept up with them but I was pushing the 2zzge to it's limit just to keep up with the DC5 & that was about on it's quarter panel (both cars were stock). DC2 Type R, I've beaten but I honestly think the driver of the DC2 Type R had a bit of trouble launching off the line. These races have been in straight lines at eastern creek.

It's correct that the sportivo is absolutely poor around corners.. It's only good in a straight line. As for the lift kick in, it kicks in at 7000rpm! I gota admit that there's a power difference from the lift kick in compared to the vtec kick in with the b16c when I owned the EM1 but then again I'm comparing a 1.8L with a 1.6L. The gearboxes on the sportivo's are not built for racing AT ALL, it's built for the everyday drive which is why the syncro's get worn out. As for the clutch on the sportivo, thumbs down again.. Not an ideal clutch for racing, once again, it's built for the everyday drive because after a fair amount of time of hitting lift & shifting while in lift, the clutch wears out. Comparing the sportivo to the EM1 I owned, EM1 was much more fun to drive. Just with a CAI kit, the vtec crossover sounded much more mean. It had more grunt & you could race car & not have anything play up as opposed to the sportivo corolla. The gearbox was absolutely great & the clutch was great too. Only downside is that it's a 2 door coupe as opposed to the sportivo which is a 4 door hatch.

Honestly speaking, I'm aiming at buying a FN2R once I have the funds & giving the sportivo to one of my siblings. I've always been a Honda boy but Toyota for my family & I is used as a run around because it's cheap maintenance!

[-JC-]

As for the lift kick in, it kicks in at 7000rpm!

Good write up mate, but if Lift is coming on at 7000rpm in your sportivo, there is something seriously wrong. I have driven around 10 of them (and owned one from new for 5 years and 110,000 k's) and the only time lift has come in anywhere other than 6000rpm (give or take 100-200rpm depending on oil pressure etc) is when people have tuned them with a PowerFC or similar and bought the lift point down to 5500-5700rpm in order to make 'landing lift' on the 1st to 2nd gear change a little easier (i.e.: no need to slip the clutch to have it land at 6000rpm on the change).

[K20_Z]

Thank you for that! I was just about to post something on this thread about whether or not I should buy an EM1 or T-sport. It's nice that a Corolla owner gave me their view on the car! :)

[K20_Z]

Well, thank you all for such great answers! But if I couldn't go for an FN2 as a first, what about an EM1 compared to the T-Sport? Thank you all for the feedbac! And Parvez for giving me a comparison from his/her experience :)

[DreadAngel]

Personally EM1 has more potential with the suspension but the B16A2 [160PS] can't compete with the 2ZZ [190PS] for peak power. I personally haven't seen many engine swapped EM1s either [I see more EKs than EJ/EM with B18Cs/Ks]... That's an option if you really like your EM1 and it hasn't been done.

If you look for articles on Ozhonda regarding the Double Wishbone v Macpherson Strut setup, you'll see why I say there is more potential with the double wishbone, Macpherson is a nightmare to tune for daily and the tofu soft Rolla makes it even harder without the accessibility of parts. EM1 should have similar support as EK so a plethora of parts available.

FYI I owned an AE111 and played with a few others so I know them ;)

NB: T-Sport is the Europe model, RunX the JDM version

[Parvez]

No worries. I'm glad it helped you. Don't get me wrong though, I love my sportivo corolla. It's great for my everyday drive to get me to uni, work & here & there. I don't mind racking up the kms in that because I service it always on time & look after it well, mechanically & physically. It's everything you can get in a little hot hatch. Nice & luxury with leather seats, has a great amount of power for it's size but as for racing around corner's, not so great but hey, who does racing around corners on a daily commute? Get me?

If you're looking for a car for the daily commute with that extra amount of power (only in a straight line, not around corners) then I'd suggest to go for the sportivo or even a EK or EG. If you're looking for a track car & a car for the daily commute then go for the EM1 or EP3 civic because the weight distribution in the chasis of the both the cars are great & there's many mods you can do mechanically as in engine swaps for the EM1 as suggest above or even turbo an EP3!

I'm aiming to buy a FN2R or EP3 JDM series once I gain enough funds which will be my track car hopefully.
I miss my EM1 but I only owned for a couple weeks because a person was interested in buying the car for much more than what I bought it for so I sold it to make a profit.

[charliebrown]

If you look for articles on Ozhonda regarding the Double Wishbone v Macpherson Strut setup, you'll see why I say there is more potential with the double wishbone, Macpherson is a nightmare to tune for daily and the tofu soft Rolla makes it even harder without the accessibility of parts

This. The rolla also has a torsion beam setup for rear, which cannot be changed at all... can't even adjust the fkn toe lol forever changing rear tyres

[butterfingers]

Personally EM1 has more potential with the suspension but the B16A2 [160PS] can't compete with the 2ZZ [190PS] for peak power. I personally haven't seen many engine swapped EM1s either [I see more EKs than EJ/EM with B18Cs/Ks]... That's an option if you really like your EM1 and it hasn't been done.

If you look for articles on Ozhonda regarding the Double Wishbone v Macpherson Strut setup, you'll see why I say there is more potential with the double wishbone, Macpherson is a nightmare to tune for daily and the tofu soft Rolla makes it even harder without the accessibility of parts. EM1 should have similar support as EK so a plethora of parts available.

FYI I owned an AE111 and played with a few others so I know them ;)

NB: T-Sport is the Europe model, RunX the JDM version

straight line power, em1 woudnt be that far behind, its much lighter than the corolla

[DreadAngel]

Was more with potential than a drag race/straight line power E-Wang contest lol...

EM1 - 160PS / 1114kg
ZZE123 - 190PS / 1224kg

~110kg difference?

I thought EM1s are ~15secs stock? ZZE123 High 14s?

[butterfingers]

Was more with potential than a drag race/straight line power E-Wang contest lol...

EM1 - 160PS / 1114kg
ZZE123 - 190PS / 1224kg

~110kg difference?

I thought EM1s are ~15secs stock? ZZE123 High 14s?

Depends on driver skill. Anyone know the trap speeds?

[MassiEk4]

Hope this helps.

Out of the cars I have owned here are the Hondas: DC5R ( OZ ), JDM EF9 ( NZ ) genuine EK9 ( in NZ ), EK4, EK3 ( in NZ), EK1 (in NZ), Eg6 (in NZ), Eg5 ( OZ), Driven a BB6 for a while and a DC2R ( in NZ, jdm spec/front). Also have driven Sportivos, both station wagon version and 4-door hatch. I havn't had any experience with the newer Hondas after owning the DC5R; I hated the driving position and the how the nose just dips and disappears while behind the wheel, guess need time to adjust or whatever, but no one can beat Honda's engines, be it a B-series or K-series even D-series, they are very special units, heaps of after market/potential/fun.

As for the sportivos' they fell into bad driving position category, the seat position is very high compared to older generation Hondas (Ek,Eg Dc2) which usually makes me nervous especially on the track, the suspension wasn't very inspiring either, but the 2ZZ engine is very impressive, with a good driver it will beart DC2Rs' with equally match drivers and give K20s' a good run for their money, but over all the gear ratios need more refinement, they aren't as well set like the K-series and B-series to work well with the motor's power band.

If I were going to chose my favorite out of the cars I have experienced, The EF9 would take the cake. But a well balanced EG chassis is also hard to beat, especially if it is equipped with a K24.

I am still an amateur when it come to car, but hope that helped you.

[MassiEk4]

straight line power, em1 woudnt be that far behind, its much lighter than the corolla

I raced a sportivo in a EK4 and got left in the dust. :o
6speed 1.8L VS 5speed 1.6L

[DreadAngel]

Not much of a contest, EK heavier than EG, B16A does well to move the EG but B16A2 doesn't do that well moving the EK...

[K20_Z]

Thanks man! I think I'm slowly starting to make my mind up for my first. I was considering the FN2, but it's too pricey. The T-Sport or Em1 was my next choice. I liked the looks of the EM1 and I like the sound of a B16a2, plus it's apparently a blast to drive. But the T-Sport was a similar price and offered more features and somewhat performance.

[charliebrown]

Not considering the DC2/DC2R? Would be more similar to da rolla in terms of torque for daily dooties

[K20_Z]

I love Integra's, but I think they're banned for P-Platers as they have 129kw per tonne. I could be wrong with that stat though.

[lolmclol]

^ lmzzooooooooooooooo

[butterfingers]

I raced a sportivo in a EK4 and got left in the dust. :o
6speed 1.8L VS 5speed 1.6L

proof tht power weight ratio doesnt show the whole picture.

[butterfingers]

Hope this helps.

Out of the cars I have owned here are the Hondas: DC5R ( OZ ), JDM EF9 ( NZ ) genuine EK9 ( in NZ ), EK4, EK3 ( in NZ), EK1 (in NZ), Eg6 (in NZ), Eg5 ( OZ), Driven a BB6 for a while and a DC2R ( in NZ, jdm spec/front). Also have driven Sportivos, both station wagon version and 4-door hatch. I havn't had any experience with the newer Hondas after owning the DC5R; I hated the driving position and the how the nose just dips and disappears while behind the wheel, guess need time to adjust or whatever, but no one can beat Honda's engines, be it a B-series or K-series even D-series, they are very special units, heaps of after market/potential/fun.

As for the sportivos' they fell into bad driving position category, the seat position is very high compared to older generation Hondas (Ek,Eg Dc2) which usually makes me nervous especially on the track, the suspension wasn't very inspiring either, but the 2ZZ engine is very impressive, with a good driver it will beart DC2Rs' with equally match drivers and give K20s' a good run for their money, but over all the gear ratios need more refinement, they aren't as well set like the K-series and B-series to work well with the motor's power band.

If I were going to chose my favorite out of the cars I have experienced, The EF9 would take the cake. But a well balanced EG chassis is also hard to beat, especially if it is equipped with a K24.

I am still an amateur when it come to car, but hope that helped you.

It's not the engine. The only reason the sportivo comes even close to beating a dc2 is because of the gearbox. 6 gears means shorter 3rd 4th and 5th than the dc2r and therefore more torque at wheels. It will pull away gradually

Saying that anything with the name corolla in it and beat anything with the type r heritage is embarrassing and blasphemy at its most evil and makes baby Jesus cry.

[Parvez]

I agree with butterfingers! ^

[K20_Z]

Ok what about this. If there was a way to import a Civic Si (8th Gen) from America, would you say an FN2 or the Si?

[butterfingers]

Ok what about this. If there was a way to import a Civic Si (8th Gen) from America, would you say an FN2 or the Si?

Fn2 because Si is still an Si

[lolmclol]

Ok what about this. If there was a way to import a Civic Si (8th Gen) from America, would you say an FN2 or the Si?

Si ... but only if it was RHD.

Hnnnnng USDM Si.

[butterfingers]

Si ... but only if it was RHD.

Hnnnnng USDM Si.

I reckon the fg2 look better than The 2013 model.

[curtis265]

I would pick teh american si over the fn2r any day of the week

dat FG2.

[lolmclol]

I reckon the fg2 look better than The 2013 model.

I know, I agree 8th generation > 9th generation

[K20_Z]

Which is the better car? The FN2 or Si?

[lolmclol]

what does it matter? you won't get one over here lolm8

[fillit]

maybe go with a FD sport as a compromise?

K20Z2 114KW, not biblically quick however is still a DOHC vtec in a much newer car than an EM1.

Also interior/exterior shits over the Sportivo.

Easy to find a well maintained (non modified) one and good resell value too as it wont depreciate much more.

[curtis265]

It's a DOHC vtec head with vtec on the intake cam only. It's a cruiser car if anything

and to be honest unless i was to swap the head i'd prefer the R series engine..


Which is the better car? The FN2 or Si?

i'd say the Si because it doesn't use that primitive torsion beam rear suspension

but you can't get it so ignore it.


unless you can somehow get it.. then i'm all ears :D

[K20_Z]

Nothing wrong with an FD... But I do want a Honda that revs to 8000. I like the FD, but I want aural appeal most :)

[fillit]

Nothing wrong with an FD... But I do want a Honda that revs to 8000. I like the FD, but I want aural appeal most :)

So in essence you want a Type R? nothing beats a good old dc2r my friend.

[butterfingers]

FG2 Si>FN2R>FD2 sport

based on look handling and powertrain

[PHO]

CRX-R pls.

[Honda_FD]

You cant ask people what is necessarily "Faster" It comes down to alot of things that makes a HUGE difference when
you "Race" Shifting, Launch, knowing what your redline is. I've seen people that drives JDM S15 and end up losing
to a little B series civic, and they have a little cry cause they're cars turbo from japan and whatnot.

But overall I would prefer a Corolla Sportivo because its different and not many have been done up.
Sportivos sounds almost exactly like a B sersies when Lift kicks in. Unless you get something with a
K20 in it, I would get a Sportivo any day.

And from reading all your comments you dont really know much about cars. (Nothing wrong with that)
But you have to do some research before you ask silly questions.

[SHRUKA]

Sportivos are nice but I prefer Type R any day! It really depends on you. Try test driving them both.

[butterfingers]

You cant ask people what is necessarily "Faster" It comes down to alot of things that makes a HUGE difference when
you "Race" Shifting, Launch, knowing what your redline is. I've seen people that drives JDM S15 and end up losing
to a little B series civic, and they have a little cry cause they're cars turbo from japan and whatnot.

But overall I would prefer a Corolla Sportivo because its different and not many have been done up.
Sportivos sounds almost exactly like a B sersies when Lift kicks in. Unless you get something with a
K20 in it, I would get a Sportivo any day.

And from reading all your comments you dont really know much about cars. (Nothing wrong with that)
But you have to do some research before you ask silly questions.

Still a corolla.

You been living under a rock or what man. Oh wait we all drive Hondas too...

Sellhonda4realperformancecartogetunanimousrespectf romcarenthusiasts

[lolmclol]

myspacebarisbroken,whythisworldhatemeayeguys

[butterfingers]

myspacebarisbroken,whythisworldhatemeayeguys
Nospacebarcosnoracecar

[lolmclol]

WILLUSECAPSLOCKASNOSPACEBAR

fd1racecarm8justuw8

[tom_son]

Just wondering how many kw atw can a fn2 make with I/H/E?

[DreadAngel]

Not much different from factory...

Need tune to gain that bit more to make it noticeable...

[tom_son]

with a tune how much can i get. Just wondering if its worth modding my car.

[DreadAngel]

Check out FN2R (http://forum.fn2r.com.au/)

You'll find more for FN2R there than on here I think...

A word of advice, don't expect too much from all that, the highly tuned and perfected from factory, it won't give you gains very easily...

Small NA engines are like that...

[tom_son]

Thanks for the link! yeah i was just wonder how it compares to dc5r/s and ep3s

[markkkwan]

The corolla T-sport and Sportivo could be different.
The 2006-2007 European T-Sport is supercharged with 161 kw.
I don't think any of the Sportivo's are supercharged, but the video i think you saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshguANKtws
This is in europe, as it's called a T-Sport and there is an EP3R which is not available in america. I'm not 100% sure but i reckon that the T-sport in that video is supercharged.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY9e2cycvtU <= this video is a comparison of the UKDM EP3R and T-Sport, keep in mind that the JDM EP3R's we get here are tuned a little more for Track work (ie, better suspension and a little more horsepower 147 vs 154 kw)
Hope this helps a bit!
Sorry if you've already made up your mind lol