What kinda power can I expect out of my d15 with bolt ons and tune?

[russell.94]

So, flogged topic, I know, but like all of my other posts are this is specific and haven't found sources to educate me correctly yet...

running a d15b7 with no intention of swapping. Getting all new intake and piping and manifolds (all the fancy shit, cause I can) in a couple of months or so. What do I need to get in regards with tuning - hondata? and what kind of power should I expect to see? This is an N/A build. (doing it for the experience more or less)

- city car, couldn't care less how much more power I get - so long as its more.

Does anyone have any recommendation of tuners in the Brisbane city area, I don't mind paying for quality...

Sorry again for flogging the topic.

[JDM DC2R]

Remove the engine and cut a hole in the floor. Flintstone it! You will have more power ATF " at the feet" then you would atw with a D15 with bolt ons. Save the money. Drop in a b18c2 or somthing

[lolmclol]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1y2-kMUr4qM/UCznxyoNNmI/AAAAAAAANa4/gWA8TszhvZg/s1600/saint.png

[EKVTIR-T]

Research Bisimoto he is single cam god

[B18cEG]

intake, header + exhaust and a cam if you can afford and thats about all you can do before it goes into "I might aswell get a b-series" territory

[dougie_504]

60-70kw max even on a generous dyno.

I love the D series, but of course it's not really worth spending $2,000+ like you're planning to.

Turbo it. Otherwise if you insist on keeping the D because you want to be different then do a CAI, header, high flow cat and a 2" or 2.25" exhaust. Stick to cheap items (eBay etc, honestly the gains will be quite minimal and not worth the big $$$).

Don't bother tuning it. You're looking at at least $1,000-1,500+ for an ecu and a tune. Not worth tuning a D unless you're doing headwork or turbo.

If you're not happy with those mods alone then a lightweight flywheel and a 4.7 or 4.9 FD are an awesome idea. No more power, but it makes your power much more usable/accessible. A heavy duty clutch is also a great idea while the box comes off. These three items are also likely to set you back $1,500+ if you do the labour yourself, $2g or more if you pay somebody.

[DreadAngel]

What dougie is trying to say is, don't think too big with the D-series... Save the dosh for a better engine if you like your EG that much otherwise get a faster car ;)

[dougie_504]

Man that was a fast reply.

Yeah basically I am. Forced induction or don't bother chasing power.

You can get great N/A power out of a SOHC D series but it's a long path, a lot of work, loads of research, and you can't do a half-assed job of it. It's a full motor build or it's nothing. Dropping in a stage 1 cam or w/e might give you a handful of KW's. Nothing to write home about.

I can tell you how to do an N/A build if you want but you're looking at $4-5,000 bare minimum IMO.

[hmetro24]

Waste of $$$, Turbo it, or swap it. otherwise pay money get nothing

[grifty]

About 60-70 kw max

[russell.94]

haha you guys make me smile :). My reasons for doing what I'm doing is in essence as simply as for the experience of doing it just cause I can. 60 - 70kw is a HUGE gain in my books regardless if I pay 2k. My build is more about making the car pretty and reliable. I don't want a fast car yet - just a faster one.

None the less I plan on doing CAI (DIY airbox reroute) both manifolds (intake and exhaust) and a 2.25" exhaust.

Thank you all for your responses, I think I've got what I need...

[androo]

Hey matey,

just wanted to confitm that you are looking at about 70kw TOTAL at the wheels. Not a gain of 70kw. That would be one magician of an intake.

[russell.94]

Hey matey,

just wanted to confitm that you are looking at about 70kw TOTAL at the wheels. Not a gain of 70kw. That would be one magician of an intake.

oh well can't win em all.

[bboyzell]

Hey matey,
just wanted to confitm that you are looking at about 70kw TOTAL at the wheels. Not a gain of 70kw. That would be one magician of an intake.
indeed. or a Mighty big Snail attached there.

[infurNOS]

Lightweight flywheel and HD clutch, will make a big differences to driving and you will feel more than another other bolt on intake9exhaust mods.

[dougie_504]

60-70KW was an answer to your questions 'what power will I make?'. Gains themselves probably 5kw from intake and exhaust.

I'd recommend not changing your intake manifold and that would be a waste of time but if you insist then I would strongly suggest the D16Y8 manifold. It makes more mid-high end power.

If you want it to sound like you're going faster then do your intake and all your exhaust. Might be a handful of kw.

If you want to actually go faster then get a lightweight flywheel and a higher FD. Or go turbo of course.

[Vvvtec]

5.x+ fd, lightweight flywheel & HD clutch.

Then you miiiiiiiiight get it move, a bit.

[Kenninho]

I would just boost it, and run it to the ground, have a lil fun with that and do a motor swap, a k-swap =)

[grifty]

5.x+ fd, lightweight flywheel & HD clutch.

Then you miiiiiiiiight get it move, a bit.

+ M Factory short ratio gears.....

[Slow.ek1]

unless u are doing a full rebuild with a truck turbo on it i wouldn't bother !
do b or k would be way better more costy but a d series is always going to be a d series

[Chernoby1]

Keep the D, spend all the money on a compressor / die grinder / dremel and misc pieces. Buy a head thats the same one as youve got now, attack it with aforementioned tools to try make it flowier. Stick it on a dyno to see if it worked. Repeat the process a few times (maybe buy a bunch of heads in bulk?) and teach yourself how to clean up a head. When time comes that youve got more money for a more powerful build, youve got the skills to do some of the work yourself.

AKA, invest in yourself rather than the D.

[zhong]

Get an ebay turbo kit and be happy with what you haul with it on the streets! :D

[mattsrea]

ask mugen_ctr about tuning D-series his building a turbo D16Y8 and could help you on which parts would give you considerable power gains.

[Jasemas]

Is your car a manual or auto?

[russell.94]

manual.

I've considered boosting but I dont know if I'm better off saving and buying another decent car with a little more potential for greatness. This car is just a grocery getter...

[mugen_ctr]

Civics are prbs one best cars to mod and have great tuning potential if done right, power, brakes, chassis, not being biased here but results speak for themselves all around the world, but the amount of parts there are.... no other car comes close to it haha,

boost it champ, u wont look back... for the money u put into a good turbo kit, not ebay junk, it should last till the car dies.

A simple turbo kit and a safe tune should give or take 100kw easy! with stock injectors n exhaust... more than enough imo for a eg... once u start goin past that 100kw to 130 - 140kw than u gotta start to worry about injectors, fuel pump, brakes upgrade etc etc, what ever u need to make it go that little bit faster and stop slower... sounds alot, but dont do it all at once, one step at a time ;)

[Daveho1]

i recon you would have enough power to win burn out masters at the summernats for sure

[DreadAngel]

Honestly if its just a grocery getter, then consider carefully what you want most and how quickly you want to get it. Sure a boosted Civic is fun but if there is another car out there that you want much more, say for example a Silvia S15. Would you rather go man, got my Civic done up now gotta wait X longer for the Silvia or would you rather save up the $$$ and go hey look, my Silvia S15 is HERE!!!

Just some food for thought man, personally I'd save up, hold yourself back and get the car you want :)

[zhong]

If it's only a grocery getter - then I wouldn't bother doing anything, maybe just cosmetic mods to make you feel like you're going faster.. But if you want to increase power, turbo is well worth it, as if you spend the same amount on n/a build you won't ever get the same power without heaps of work.. Unless you throw in a K24 or something..

I have a turbo eg, and it's amazing. lol

[Chernoby1]

100kw is surely on the lower side of things right? My b16 makes that much with a munted piston ring :/
Even my f6a (Suzuki) can handle ~90kw without opening the engine up, and it's a 657cc engine... is the d really made out of cheese?!

[DreadAngel]

I'm sure the 100kW figure is just a 'safe' or 'conservative' figure...

For whatever it counts for...

[tripleuse]

haha you guys make me smile :). My reasons for doing what I'm doing is in essence as simply as for the experience of doing it just cause I can. 60 - 70kw is a HUGE gain in my books regardless if I pay 2k. My build is more about making the car pretty and reliable. I don't want a fast car yet - just a faster one.

None the less I plan on doing CAI (DIY airbox reroute) both manifolds (intake and exhaust) and a 2.25" exhaust.

Thank you all for your responses, I think I've got what I need...

to get good power out of a d series in no way will the engine be reliable.

[dougie_504]

I'm sure the 100kW figure is just a 'safe' or 'conservative' figure...

For whatever it counts for...

200HP at the engine, which is 149kw and probably 120kw +/- at the wheels.




to get good power out of a d series in no way will the engine be reliable.

Why don't it be reliable?

[russell.94]

to be honest I'm pretty happy with the get up it has. I've driven fast cars but they just arent practical in my situation. I'm doing the cosmetic mods for sure already so I might simply just stick a new muffler on it and be done with the engine...

[mugen_ctr]

100kw is surely on the lower side of things right? My b16 makes that much with a munted piston ring :/
Even my f6a (Suzuki) can handle ~90kw without opening the engine up, and it's a 657cc engine... is the d really made out of cheese?!

no its not made of cheese, the rods are the weakest link, 220hp at the wheels an ur really pushing it, than it might go bang, swap the rods n piston an ur good to hit 350hp easy!

Remember thats with a basic kit with no injectors, fuel pump or exhaust, an by that time ur already maxing out the injector duty cycle closer to 80

And u cannot compare a those 2 engines as u mentioned, 2 totally different engines, a better comparision would be the Mitsubishi 1600cc SOHC

And if ur driven a turbo civic to a n/a civic with same power, turbo will come out on top, due to power an torque band being shifted to mid range, thus making the turbo car much quicker


I'm sure the 100kW figure is just a 'safe' or 'conservative' figure...

For whatever it counts for...

very conservative, BUT its all about the setup, as i said, the 100kw is just a base power figure with a basic bolt on kit, once u start doing injectors, fuel pump, exhaust than u should see a increase of 20 - 40 kw easy!


to get good power out of a d series in no way will the engine be reliable.

LOL, funny when ppl say d-series are weak an not reliable once u start aiming for more power, IF u use quality parts, know what ur doing, an most important have a good tune it is as reliable as any car, at the end of the day, Its just like any other engine out there, once u start playing with it, opening up the bottom end, head etc etc, u can make decent power with the right parts

[Chernoby1]

no its not made of cheese, the rods are the weakest link, 220hp at the wheels an ur really pushing it, than it might go bang, swap the rods n piston an ur good to hit 350hp easy!


200hp/150kw is much closer to what i was expecting. Not 100kw.



Remember thats with a basic kit with no injectors, fuel pump or exhaust, an by that time ur already maxing out the injector duty cycle closer to 80


I would not even imagine turbo'ing a car without changing injectors/fuel pump/ecu/exhaust. Thats the bare minimum id do.




And u cannot compare a those 2 engines as u mentioned, 2 totally different engines, a better comparision would be the Mitsubishi 1600cc SOHC

I dont see why i shouldnt compare the B when it is an option that costs nearly the same. (Again im assuming the turbo'ing will be done properly)



And if ur driven a turbo civic to a n/a civic with same power, turbo will come out on top, due to power an torque band being shifted to mid range, thus making the turbo car much quicker


Only if youre driving in a straight line. . Not so much a problem if its a smaller turbo, but cars with larger turbos have been much harder to control on corners where im trying to do like 50% throttle. So in effect, im saying the NA is easier to drive and thus in my opinion 'faster'. On the track difficult cars to drive are acceptable; on the street, **** that.

This has gone completely offtopic though. and seems the op knows what hes doing :)

[Jasemas]

150kwatw? Or flywheel?

[dougie_504]

The SOHC D-series rods are good for 150kw at the engine. So if you factor in a minimum of 15% power loss by the drivetrain then you're looking at a figure of 125-130kw ATW. By sticking to 120kw ATW or less you're playing it nice and safe. Any more than that and you'll snap one and throw it out the block probably. Despite that they are very lightweight and good for RPM by and large.

The piston ring landings are good for about 9,000 RPM max before they fail and you lose your ring seal almost completely.

Also the SOHC D-series heads are generally good to work with. The combustion chambers are more ideally shaped than the B-series heads for flow and heat quench reduction. Also being a SOHC there's a lot more room for timing alterations.

[honda_zivic]

^ what he said, 120-130kw atw is safe range, even though the americans have push like 160-170kw atw no problems but its a gamble there.

forget d15, get a d16y1 or d16y8 or d16a8 an boost that.
u will need a better clutch as well, stock will start slipping very soon.
and at least catback exhaust..

reliability can be the same as NA engine, as long as u do regular service, warmup/cool off, don't rape it 24/7 and good tune.

[dougie_504]

^ what he said, 120-130kw atw is safe range, even though the americans have push like 160-170kw atw no problems but its a gamble there.

forget d15, get a d16y1 or d16y8 or d16a8 an boost that.
u will need a better clutch as well, stock will start slipping very soon.
and at least catback exhaust..

reliability can be the same as NA engine, as long as u do regular service, warmup/cool off, don't rape it 24/7 and good tune.


So true.

I'm pretty sure the DOHC D's hold power better but given that they have the same stroke length I can only assume it's related to rod design. Must be a bit beefier.

Y8 is slightly better than the Y1 for making top-end power but it's not worth swapping a Y1 for a Y8. However for people running a Y1 it's not a bad idea to consider swapping to the Y8 manifold as it would yield better mid-top end power, whereas the Y1 is a little better in the low end.

And from what I've seen in person once you're over 100kw atw the SOHC OEM clutches start slipping.

[Jasemas]

Looks like we're factoring kw ATW to kw @ Flywheel eh :P

[Chernoby1]

I was talking 150kw atw lol :(

Still cant believe a car would not be able to do 100kw/l at the wheels without opening up the motor. Then again i only know / look up 'cult' cars with what i can now presume to be much stronger/sportier engines. Learn something new everyday.

[DreadAngel]

You have to factor in the engine's original specs cause after all that is what the manufacturer aims are. D16Y1 rated 96kW @ the Flywheel, assume it was made for ~100kW then detuned for durability factor. You then ask an essentially a economy engine to withstand both the pressure of being turbocharged and output at least 50% more power than it was designed for.

Now if this was a B16 or a SR20 or 4G63 or RB26, etc etc... The internal components were designed for performance application, the D16Y1 wasn't, they were designed within a budget for an economic hatch/sedan/coupe.

Like the others have said though, with good selection of parts, realistic demands and expectations and the right tune [the right tune isn't an overly rich one which is 'tuned' for safety, that's just lazy], its not unrealistic to find some surprising figures.

OP I think your decision is right btw ;)

[russell.94]

I'ma keep my civic slow, and pretty, and roadworthy. [P's for another 2 years] Maybe I'll reconsider boost when I can legally drive it boosted, maybe. If I don't something snazzier by then...

[mocchi]

I'ma keep my civic slow, and pretty, and roadworthy.

hahahah nice
i like this

non-tec ftw