V8 Supercars 2013

[Mugen_Power]

Anyone else watch the V8's yesterday in Adelaide? Poor Merc's & Nissan's didn't stand a chance. Congrats to Lowndes for his 90th race win.

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/images/news/imageCarouselLrg/V8SC%20Driver%20Heads-2013-04034.jpg

[DreadAngel]

Watched little bits and pieces while playing some FM4 over lunch.

Ch7 claimed Erebus M had only 3.5mths to turn out 3 E63 AMGs into race cars? They actually didn't too bad both Merc & Nissan considering that they're working on basically untested race cars.

11th Nissan [Rick Kelly] +8 spots
14th Nissan [James Moffat] 0 spots
15th Mercedes-Benz [Tim Slade] +9 spots
17th Mercedes-Benz [Lee Holdsworth] +6 spots
23th Nissan [Michael Caruso] -10 spots [Issues with car IIRC]
24th Mercedes-Benz [Maro Engel] +4 spots [Issues with car]

Not a bad showing, I did watch the segment about this 'Car of the future', they've made some critical changes to the cars so its more modern. I'm now just waiting for the engine to change... Hahaha

[stndrd]

Both mercedes and nissan are running their own engines. Its only ford and holden that are using the old ohv motors

[Mugen_Power]

Was it only Holdsworth Merc that was having trouble with the firewall being so hot?

[osman1]

Interesting to see what Nissan can do in the v8s this year.

[DreadAngel]

Both mercedes and nissan are running their own engines. Its only ford and holden that are using the old ohv motors

Thanks for the clarification stndrd, are there any noticable differences between them and the OHV motors?


Was it only Holdsworth Merc that was having trouble with the firewall being so hot?

Holdsworth Merc was extraordinary but a few other drivers were being cooked too... 60 inside cabin, 90+ on the accelerator pedal ><

[stndrd]

Nissan are using a de stroked (down to 5L to keep in line with supercar rules) version of the v8 used in the r35 in GT3 (not Super GT like i said before i edited)

In regards to the Merc, i am not 100% on what v8 is being used.

The main difference between the old style holden/ford and the nissan v8 is that the nissan v8 is a quad cam 32 valve set up with, i presume, some form of vct and more modern design features.

I will have a look a bit later for more info once i get on my laptop

[DreadAngel]

Hmmmm, perhaps Nissan used previously VRH50A [650PS+] instead of stroking the currently used VRH34A [530PS+]... I'm 'guessing' the VRH50A was then modified to meet the Supercar specs if there were any to meet?

Those that are interested, here are some Car of the Future [COTF] info:

So, what’s different about a 2013 COTF car versus a current V8 Supercar?

Chassis design and specification will now be fixed. All chassis to be dimensionally identical, but different accredited vehicle builders can construct them.
Engine is mounted 100mms further back and down. Protects engine in case of frontal impact and improves weight distribution.
Increase in wheel and tyre size to 18-inch provide by Dunlop. Bigger brakes can therefore also be fitted.
Windscreen becomes polycarbonate. It’s 250 times stronger than glass.
Collapsible steering column with collapsible section in the engine bay, rather than the cabin.
Different transmission, moving to a transaxle, which incorporates the differential and gearbox in one assembly.
Adoption of IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) with control pickup points and a control specification of uprights and wishbones.
Fuel cell moved further forward in the car to protect from rear impacts.

I'll keep trying to find out more...

EDIT: Here (http://www.v8supercars.com.au/technical/car-of-the-future)

[stndrd]

Here are some links about Merc &amp; Nissan engines.

Merc:
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/DA6D0AF7994F6660CA257ABD007BA513

Nissan:
http://www.v8x.com.au/index.php/news/9-news/518-nissan-unveils-vk56de-v8-supercar-engine

[trism]

Nissan is using a destroked version of the new Patrol V8. Quad cam, 32 Valve, timing chain, coil on plug, using an 8 throttle body setup like the holdens and fords, with a throttle cable. like stndrd said, its pretty much the motor that was used in the GT1 GTR.

Merc is using a destroked version of the 6.2 litre used in the SLS GT3 car. However a few variations on the proven formula, theyll be using a flat plane crank rather than a cross plane, which gives them that very european sounding high pitched scream rather than a deep rumble. This thing also has quad cam, coil on plug, but unlike the others, it uses a plenum with only dual throttle bodies, and features drive by wire.

[trism]

As for the temps, they were all copping it, but there must be something with the way the exhaust is routed in the mercs that places the exhaust closer to the floor.

Holdsworth was the only one that felt it because Engel had problems with the ecu/drive-by-wire and slade had the gbox probs, so holdsworth was the only one to get a decent run out of it.

Onto race discussion.

Awesome to see Lowndes get his 90th win, the next one will be a biggie, thatll make him the most winningest driver in aussie touring car history.

Also good to see Tekno beat the stranglehold that 888 and FPR had on the race victories (even though its an 888 built chassis lol) and even though its a dog act what SVG did to stonebros/erebus, Ive been a fan since he won his first races back in 2011, and its awesome to see him in a Holden. Car had genuine pace, he is an awesome driver, id like to see him up there with the greats some day.

Alex Premat, the frenchman. Terrible last season, i think the fact that the cars feel more like proper race cars means he will smash it this year, as can be seen is his performance in quali on both days.

[DreadAngel]

This kinda sums up Nissan's weekend :(

(Couldn't find a photo so as a visual representation)

http://motrist.com/images/posts/1/2/715/12715_m.jpg


Erebus commented on issues with FBW & lack of straight line speed? But I <3 the engine note =D

Kelly Motorsport on the Nissan haven't found anything yet...

[trism]

Well from what ive read from sources, both merc and nissan were down 50-80hp on the other two. Kelly bros wanted to have the rev limit raised from 7500 to 7850 but im not sure how that went down.

There just isnt the sheer developement for them like there is the ford/holden.

[DreadAngel]

Woah! That would put them <600hp then =|

The GM/Ford are outputting 650hp?

Ouch, no wonder can't compare...

[Daveho1]

it will be verry good to see how the new compatition plays out, not just this season as im sure teething issues will be huge for the first season or two. i know its childish but i just wish nissan would use the r32 chassis lol

[trism]

Woah! That would put them <600hp then =|

The GM/Ford are outputting 650hp?

Ouch, no wonder can't compare...

yep, 650 has been the majic number for a few years. Theyre all running the same ECU and wiring loom these days, so they all have the same tuning parameters, but engine wise, internals are free, as long as they fit weight restrictions, and cant use certain materials.

Youd probably find that the top teir teams, like 888 and FPR will be at the better end of the power scale, making 650-660hp by about 6800rpm, whereas the lower budget teams will be making it further up at 7200 and probably only hitting 640-650, and which of course means that they need to rev harder, explaining why 888 and FPR normally get good reliablity, they arent spinning them as hard.

[trism]

i know its childish but i just wish nissan would use the r32 chassis lol

yeah but this is v8 supercars, not the GT championship lol.

Most people seem to have the impression that the 32 GTR destroying the competition is the reason why australia went to the v8 supercar, holden vs ford. But theyre wrong. Group A worldwide went down the shitter because the FIA abandonded it as a category.

[Chr1s]

What makes you think the R32 is a superior chassis? The maxima chassis in COTF is more than likely much better than the GTR chassis, you can't compare the car's, that's all.

Trism, what does that matter to Australian motorsport? it's only taken them 50000 years to align the CAMS cage rules with FIA rules....

[trism]

Trism, what does that matter to Australian motorsport? it's only taken them 50000 years to align the CAMS cage rules with FIA rules....

What?

[Chr1s]

All I'm saying is, what does it matter if FIA banned the category? It's not like majority of Australian motorsport was following any FIA rules - Formula Ford/Formula 3 are probably the main ones. CAMS had their own cage requirements for cars up until recently where they have now been changed to align themselves with the FIA if one wishes to go compete with the car in an FIA event

There is alot more to the politics behind the sport than we think, I honestly think they got rid of the international teams and left it with Ford/Holden to remove the negative shadow on the sport every time another car one, look how embarrassing it is to watch when Richards one in the GTR and the crowd is booing, that's disgusting.. I'm surprised sponsors didn't pull out overnight.

[stndrd]

We weren't living in an age of pollitical correctness back then like we are now...

[trism]

All I'm saying is, what does it matter if FIA banned the category? It's not like majority of Australian motorsport was following any FIA rules - Formula Ford/Formula 3 are probably the main ones. CAMS had their own cage requirements for cars up until recently where they have now been changed to align themselves with the FIA if one wishes to go compete with the car in an FIA event

There is alot more to the politics behind the sport than we think, I honestly think they got rid of the international teams and left it with Ford/Holden to remove the negative shadow on the sport every time another car one, look how embarrassing it is to watch when Richards one in the GTR and the crowd is booing, that's disgusting.. I'm surprised sponsors didn't pull out overnight.

The FIA didnt ban Group A. It was a worldwide class, and countries started to move away from the production based homologation into specific categories. Germany moved the DTM to all have 2.5l engines, the Japanese Touring Car Championship morphed into the JGTC, and because manufacturers everywhere else in the world started to kill the homologated models used in Gp A, the aussies followed suit, and CAMS came up with the idea of having a multiclass series, with larger cars running 5l V8s, and smaller cars running 2l 4 or 6 pots.

CAMS has been associated with the FIA since 1970, and all classes of FIA approved racing has been required to follow FIA regs. OTher non FIA events cam under CAMS regs.

As for your conspiracy theory about pulling international manufacturers out, I think youll find that only holden and ford ran in the 5l class, because they were the only manufacturers that had a 5l v8 to use, and the 2l class (called super tourers, also an FIA designated class) ran from 93 up until 99, when it collapsed due to lack of support from manufacturers, and from the aussie public. The two classes ran side by side, and they even held separate events for the Bathurst 1000, one for the V8 Supercars, and one for the Super Tourers.

With regards to the infamous Skaife/Richards debacle, they werent booing the fact that the skyline won. Take a look at the previous year when they won, people loved it.

They were booing at the fact that they shouldnt have won. They crashed on lap 145 due to the rain, and the windback to lap 143 to dtermine placing put them on the top step of the podium.

So please, make sure that you are fully aware of circumstances regarding these issues before you attempt to school me.

[Chr1s]

Not trying to school anybody here..

The CAMS cage rules were apparently the since ~2000 or so right? FIA have had numerous updates in the meantime, recently announced they have now adjusted their rules to line up with 2012/13 spec FIA regs.