PDA

View Full Version : My car wont start, why not?(K-series)


Andy
22-04-2013, 04:07 AM
First of all keep in mind I'm a complete newb and that I've never done internal work on my car before..lol. Ok, so today I decided to replace my intake cam gear with a 50VTC cam gear on my K24 motor. Here is how I did it:

1. I took the rocker cover off and set the TDC for the Cam gears and marked the chain(however I didnt for the crank pulley, I followed skunk2's 15 minute cam install, they didn't specify this, so i thought it wasn't needed...)

2.Took the tensioner cover off and placed a pin inside the timing chain tensioner...

3. Next I unbolted took out the cam holders

**here is where my problems started... at some point the pin inside the timing chain tensioner fell out(obviously I was unaware). As I attempted to take out the intake cam gear I noticed that there was absolutely no slack, however I have never done any internal work on my car before so I thought this was normal(I thought wrong). Anyhow I proceeded take out the intake camshaft and cam gear(whilst having a helper hold tension on the chain). I bolted the 50VTC cam gear onto the camshaft and noticed it would simply not sit back into place on the head due to the fact the chain was waay to tight and had no slack. At this point I checked the timing chain tensioner and found that the pin had fallen out(I died a little inside). So I continued on and took out the timing chain tensioner and there was now enough slack to put my camshaft and gear in place and so I did. I made sure to align the cam gear with the mark I had made on the chain(I'm not going to lie; I did move the crank forwards and backwards, due to frustration in attempt to get the cam gears to align, and were flush ...keep in mind I'm a newb)

4. Bolted and torqued up the cam holders 16lb-ft(following http://www.k-series.com/attachment.p...5&d=1293149008)

5. Put timing chain tensioner back in, put the cover over it with some rtv

6. Turned the crank a few rotations

7. Put rocker cover on

8. Turned the key... cranks but doesn't start... no CEL's :'(

Any suggestions of what the issue could be(please include solution)??

I'm thinking I fcuked my timing...
Andy
22-04-2013, 04:15 AM
Update**

When I first aligned my cam gears, I did notice a bit of slack on the intake cam side, however after trying to start it and then manually rotating the crank pulley I noticed the slack on the intake cam side appeared to be noticeably tighter. Also after trying the above this happened: 24594!! it seems that it is no longer in alignment... any suggestions? I haven't removed the exhaust camshaft from the timing chain so i'm assuming the intake cam is out of alignment along with the timing? or?
Benson
22-04-2013, 07:43 AM
Double check timing, put the crank at TDC and make sure the two timing marks on the cam gears lines up
Andy
22-04-2013, 11:06 AM
Okies another update, set TDC at crank and piston #1, put pin in tensioner, adjusted the lines on the cam gear to face each other, new problem; now the cams dont sit flush, however when pressure is applied they sit relatively flush and also the timing chain tightens.. doesnt seem right? or?

here are some pics

24599
cam gears marks are on point

24598
cam shafts dont sit flush :/ ?
Andy
22-04-2013, 01:07 PM
Okies so I put the cam holders, rocker cover and tensioner cover back... attempted to start the car, cranked for about 5 seconds then started up and sounded fine. I switch off the ignition and start the car again cranked for about 3 seconds started up and sounded fine. I switch off the ignition as I needed to tighten the rocker cover, attempt to start the car again... cranks but now does not start! arrrgh!

ozhonda isnt letting me upload a video of what it sounds like but you can imagine an engine that continuously cranks but doesn't start up, :'( any ideas?


CELS:
-P2185 ECT high voltage
-P0498 EVAP VSV low voltage
-P0453 Evap emission control system pressure sensor High Input
(I've had these CEL codes ever since I installed flashpro)
Andy
22-04-2013, 01:43 PM
update again.. just took out my spark plugs.. they were fine before I was able to start the car, now they're blaaaaack
chez00
22-04-2013, 02:12 PM
That cam timing was way out and you cranked it. I'd give it a compression rest as you've risked bending your valves, sorry dude.
Andy
22-04-2013, 03:46 PM
That cam timing was way out and you cranked it. I'd give it a compression rest as you've risked bending your valves, sorry dude.

aww maaaan. Also in terms of cam timing were you referring to this pic? :24600

To me it looks really really close. Also did you mean compression test?
Andy
22-04-2013, 04:05 PM
**note: the blue mark was something else lol
chez00
22-04-2013, 04:07 PM
No I'm looking at the first pic. Did you crank it before that point?
Andy
22-04-2013, 04:29 PM
No I'm looking at the first pic. Did you crank it before that point?

I'm not going to lie, I tried to. I'm gonna follow your advice and head off to supercheap now to get a compression tester. figures crossed :S
chez00
22-04-2013, 09:39 PM
Ah spewing. What's the verdict?
mocchi
23-04-2013, 09:13 AM
Okies another update, set TDC at crank and piston #1, put pin in tensioner, adjusted the lines on the cam gear to face each other, new problem; now the cams dont sit flush, however when pressure is applied they sit relatively flush and also the timing chain tightens.. doesnt seem right? or?

here are some pics

24599
cam gears marks are on point

24598
cam shafts dont sit flush :/ ?

doesnt sit flush cos you dont have the cam caps on
pressure from timing chain kinda pulls it

did you make sure crank pulley is at the right place?
there should be marks to make sure crank & piston is tdc
Andy
23-04-2013, 12:31 PM
doesnt sit flush cos you dont have the cam caps on
pressure from timing chain kinda pulls it

did you make sure crank pulley is at the right place?
there should be marks to make sure crank & piston is tdc



Ah spewing. What's the verdict?

Yeh man I found out that its normal for cams not to sit flush without cam caps on :) the second time I aligned everything I made sure everything was on point. The car started bro, sounded normal, I switched it off, go try turn it on again, doesn't start... if I aligned everything(crank,timing chain,cam gears,piston #1 TDC) close to perfect and its still not starting then its either 1. There is a problem with the timing chain somewhere behind the cover that I can't see 2. My alignment skills aren't that good... 3. I've fcked up my valves

Went to ask my mechanic yesterday and he said the same thing "Don't try cranking it again as you might bend your valves" he also said "There's no point doing a compression test as it wont tell me if I've bent a valve", he recommended that I take out the timing chain cover and reset the timing FML! I don't have the time, experience and patience... so at this point I might just get a shop to do it

/thread
chez00
23-04-2013, 12:40 PM
Compression test will tell you if your valves are bent. Bent valve = no seal in the combustion chamber = low compression. At least you could then tell what you're dealing with. Dunno what the mechanic was on about.

Best way is leak down test because you don't have to crank it. Few mechanics have the gear though. An engine builder should.
mocchi
23-04-2013, 02:42 PM
engine still in car ay?
shiet what a hassle to take off timing chain cover lol

i would try again from scratch. print out service manual on installing new timing chain.

try set crank to tdc, remove tensioner and compress it, put pin in.
remove chain and set cams to tdc

cams have 2 marks to make sure its tdc, 1 on cam gear and one at the back of it.
you can insert some small rod like drill bit to make sure it doesnt move when you put chain on

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f228/6spd_ek/camtiming_181.jpg

and make sure the dots falls in between chain links. after that i would try put tensioner back in.
then hand crank 5-6 crank revolutions so cams would turn more than twice

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u323/breadbaconncheese/K%20Swap/4-5.gif