Buyer Beware - Sydney Used EP3 Type R

[dodgyimports]

Just thought I'd post this as a warning to anyone looking at buying a EP3 type R in Sydney at the moment:

http://www.edwardlees.com.au/stock/2002-honda-civic-type-r-3481.htm

- note VIN number. Even once complied you should expect to see the the original Japanese chassis number as part of the VIN.

http://ajeos.ru/aj_3-sCFn7CY3ahLU45.htm

- chassis no. is recorded on the auction sheet as are the km's

"fresh from japan" - and seemingly delivered by the tardis...

on the plus side - looks like some nice detailing work has been done on this car since it arrived.

note: per standard japanese auction systems the ajeos link above will be archived at some point during July.

[EKVTIR-T]

Busted!!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1191763_o.gif

[EKVTIR-T]

amazing how the mileage suddenly became so low

[androo]

Thanks dodgyimports. A friend of mine is looking so I will give him a heads up!

[integraR]

nice work and detail


500000yen = ~5k ish in aud + compliance and import duties should be around 10k

selling for 18,888

[curtis265]

http://i.minus.com/ibyIUZKim3OnHC.gif

[mocchi]

dodgyimports :thumbsup:

[EKVTIR-T]

OP got any others from them?

[YeahByuddy]

this is the good informations for help all buyer interest on edward lee dealer now they know its no good place

[DreadAngel]

OP, from memory the seller you're talking about was going to proceed with legal action against both JDMST and this forum iirc...

Might be wise to censor the name and people can PM you regarding the issue...

[EKVTIR-T]

What can they actually do?

That auction form is publicly listed and he didnt word anything against them,only pointing out discrepancy so people can consider it..?



We need Fredoops to chime in

[dc2r-0636]

Lol sprunggg

[PHO]

So FOB price was 502,000 ¥ which is around 5,100 AUD
Assume $1100 for customs costs
9.3x $95/m^3 for freight (AUD), this will come close to $1000.
Import duty will be 5,100 AUD * 5% = $255
GST 10% of is FOB + some figure around $1,000, forgot what the 1k was for. So say $7000 x 10% for a conservative value = $700

Landed this car is 5100 + 1100 + 1000 + 225 + 700 = $8125

Say compliance is cheap for edwardlees at $1-1.5k
And rego is another 1.2k on top.

Onroad = $10,825.
In house detailing and whatever to make it look up to scratch? Slap on another 500

Thats 18,888 - 11,325 = $7,500 mark up.
Shieeet son. Dem dealers m8.
Imported your self through a broker you could pick up a mint facelift 04/05 EP3R @100,000kms (legit) on road in australia for $16-17k with full logbooks and no accident history, no rust.

[charliebrown]

fuark... heavy rust, corrision and accident history

MINT MINT MINT!

[DreadAngel]

What can they actually do?

That auction form is publicly listed and he didnt word anything against them,only pointing out discrepancy so people can consider it..?



We need Fredoops to chime in

I don't know, iirc they literally forced both Admins to remove all content negatively related to them *shrugs*

[EKVTIR-T]

fuark... heavy rust, corrision and accident history

MINT MINT MINT!Yeah for piece of mind I'd rather go with trusted australian name

http://s21.postimg.org/z1mi7f47b/jimlogo5.jpg

[Winter]

best way to find out km's

is to ask for auction and dereg papers when buying from import dealer to get accurate km's

[dodgyimports]

hmmm, a bit sad to see this has descended into a discussion about price. businesses need to make money - i don't think the size of the margin is the main issue here. when i was looking for a car i would have happily paid a chunk of money more for a genuine km's car already in the country. unfortunately there are many dealers around that do not cater for wary buyers.

+1 for import brokers.

[mocchi]

Yeah for piece of mind I'd rather go with trusted australian name

http://s21.postimg.org/z1mi7f47b/jimlogo5.jpg

lmao

the best guys for imports

[DreadAngel]

hmmm, a bit sad to see this has descended into a discussion about price. businesses need to make money - i don't think the size of the margin is the main issue here. when i was looking for a car i would have happily paid a chunk of money more for a genuine km's car already in the country. unfortunately there are many dealers around that do not cater for wary buyers.

+1 for import brokers.

I went through Import brokers too, at the time I got my car imported, I found the import yards here in general to have overly hiked prices for sub-standard cars [Think grade 3 and you'll know what I'm talking about]. With the import broker [I used J-Spec], I was able to have access to auctions, dealerships, yards, etc and the agent was able to find the condition and specs [Pre-Modded] I was after. Sure it was a lot more involved process than just going down to the dealer and pick one + the associated risk not being able to test drive however if you go with a trusted Broker [J-Spec, Iron Chef, Prestige Motorsport] you'll be safe.

[joyride]

Dont be using specific names to bad mouth people guys

[lolmclol]

Yeah for piece of mind I'd rather go with trusted australian name

http://s21.postimg.org/z1mi7f47b/jimlogo5.jpg

Thank

Will inquire further with Jim

[dougie_504]

Nothing wrong with a broker making some money. If they import a car and sell it there's no problem - you can only pay what you want to for it and if it means somebody gets their dream car as a reasonable price that's great. Ignore the importation price or just import it yourself.

Knocking off 100,000+ KM's from the odometer though...that's just criminal (literally).

Wouldn't surprise me if they say 'oh we forgot to put the first '1' digit in front of the mileage on our website', making it 148,***KMs and close enough to the auction sheet to be legit?

[infurNOS]

Nothing wrong with a broker making some money. If they import a car and sell it there's no problem - you can only pay what you want to for it and if it means somebody gets their dream car as a reasonable price that's great. Ignore the importation price or just import it yourself.

Knocking off 100,000+ KM's from the odometer though...that's just criminal (literally).

Wouldn't surprise me if they say 'oh we forgot to put the first '1' digit in front of the mileage on our website', making it 148,***KMs and close enough to the auction sheet to be legit?

Have they wound back the clock on the cars odo aswell?

[infurNOS]

Surely when someone inspects they will see the real km on the car?!

[DakDak]

OP, you just earn yourself some rep.

[dougie_504]

I assume they wound it back or replaced it. Clearly anybody will go 'yay only 42,000 KMs!' Then say 'wtf' when they see it has 150,000 on inspection.

[charliebrown]

Have they wound back the clock on the cars odo aswell?

Yep, then the auction papers magically go missing. Every EP3 i've seen is suspiciously 6xxxx (around 20k asking price) or 8xxxx (18k asking price). However the interior is worse than that of my dads neglected 300000km corolla. Unless japanese dudes have sandpaper for pants

[itachi-kun]

You can bet pretty much all dealer imported cars are wound back, sadly its just all too common.

And LOL @ edward lee's

[bennjamin]

You can bet pretty much all dealer imported cars are wound back, sadly its just all too common.

And LOL @ edward lee's



How exactly does one "wind back " a digital speedo ?

:0)

[curtis265]

How exactly does one "wind back " a digital speedo ?

:0)

wind forward until you reach a desiered km reading

[itachi-kun]

How exactly does one "wind back " a digital speedo ?

:0)

Jack the car up and drive in reverse gear obviously

[dodgyimports]

Most cars these days effectively run a very small/limited capability computer to drive functions like digital speedo, audio systems, navigation etc... changing the number is a matter of hacking the computer. there are also legitimate reasons why odometer numbers need to be changed (if part of the odometer function breaks and need to be replaced the new odometer will need to be changed to reflect the original reading) and qualified mechanics/specialists would have access to the relevant codes to make these changes.

[PHO]

How exactly does one "wind back " a digital speedo ?

:0)

Lots of people have cracked the digital speedo and reprogrammed it.

Or you can just swap the clusters I think.

[Stevil]

Fair Trading or the MTAA/RTA should be contacted and given details, koch spanks like Edward Lee's ought to be put out of business

[DuffyFD]

I'd be like, give me it for free or i'll dob on youuuuuu

[flop101]

IMG is well respected, anyone ever had faulty or missing auction papers from them?

[DreadAngel]

IMG would be one of the better choices as would Top Secret Import =)

[itachi-kun]

IMG is well respected, anyone ever had faulty or missing auction papers from them?

Its not that hard to photoshop an auction sheet

[lolmclol]

Its not that hard to photoshop an auction sheet

couldn't the same thing be said about the auction sheet OP is claiming is related to that car?

[bennjamin]

Its not that hard to photoshop an auction sheet

any legit company with a ABN and reputation to uphold would be wise enough to rectify such claims....

IE sue anyone that states otherwise or look forward to a class action against them.

It will be long hard and expensive to prove otherwise. Abit of pre purchase investigative work would go a long way though !

[butterfingers]

its pretty naive to think that a 8-10 year old car consistently has under 80000km on it.

a low-mileage example would be around the 80-100000km mark

most 2005 mps3, sportivos etc have around the 100k mark give or take and both these cars are quite similar in market niche and therefore common usage patterns as the ep3.

if it was genuinely low kms, then chances are the original owner used it as a track car.

[DreadAngel]

its pretty naive to think that a 8-10 year old car consistently has under 80000km on it.

a low-mileage example would be around the 80-100000km mark

most 2005 mps3, sportivos etc have around the 100k mark give or take and both these cars are quite similar in market niche and therefore common usage patterns as the ep3.

if it was genuinely low kms, then chances are the original owner used it as a track car.

Most of it comes from the fact people believe Japanese people don't travel in cars as much on average as Australians. This is true but not by 30% margin =|

[dougie_504]

That said my 1990 CRX SiR has 103,000 genuine KM's complete with full service record in Japanese :)

[mugen_ctr]

Most imports that do come into the country legit, not tampered odometer, chopped or rebirthed, are most likely gonna b low kms anyways, well when compared to ADM cars that is, japan isnt a large country, they do half the amount of kms the average australian car does, so considering this, its fair to say that u do sort of expect a low km car anyways if it was a legit car without tampering....

I do remember reading awhile back in magazines its a common sight for sellers to wind back odometers before sending it to the auction houses, as we all know lower kms means more likely buyers, im not sure if there is any real hard evidence into this, but i suspect this does ring some bells especially when you see a 20 year old car with 80,000kms in the auction house LOL, unless the auction have log books to back up the kms

[EKVTIR-T]

Logbook can be counterfeited,stamps can be stolen/made to replicate service centre stamps

you never really "know" a true mileage,you only have leap of faith its true

you can buy oem Honda part with ]Made in Japan] from China,everything can be fake..

Made in Italy labels for Gucci made in Chinese factorys,how do you know anything genuine

maybe your Honda actually made in China

is this real life?

everything is illusions ahhhhhh!!!!!!!

inb4matrixmemes

[PHO]

madeinception

[DakDak]

I know the Km's on my car are legit as the cluster was never removed. I could tell this by how stupidly torqued everything still was after 14 years.

[mocchi]

madeinception

lmaoo

[Poeter]

I know the Km's on my car are legit as the cluster was never removed. I could tell this by how stupidly torqued everything still was after 14 years.

Cluster does not need to be removed to be tampered with.

It can be achieved electronically through connecting with one of those expensive OBDII diagnostic tools. (Ones which professional mechanic uses, not the el'cheap ELM327 scanner).

Hence almost completely untraceable with a single scratch or physical evidence with the cluster.

[bennjamin]

Cluster does not need to be removed to be tampered with.

It can be achieved electronically through connecting with one of those expensive OBDII diagnostic tools. (Ones which professional mechanic uses, not the el'cheap ELM327 scanner).

Hence almost completely untraceable with a single scratch or physical evidence with the cluster.


Can you provide some support to your argument ? Im sick of myths like this floating around with no real basis of information.

Generally an electronic dash unit can only be "wound" forward , and only within the first X amount of ks covered - thats with "expensive" OBD2 tools.

[EKVTIR-T]

At HSV we had an obd controller which they connect after the cars completed and roadtested to reset the kms to 0..

they get driven quite a bit to and from storage and around the plant prior to completion

[bennjamin]

At HSV we had an obd controller which they connect after the cars completed and roadtested to reset the kms to 0..

they get driven quite a bit to and from storage and around the plant prior to completion

what about Honda , namely the EP3R ?

[EKVTIR-T]

I would assume every manufacturer has that capability

plus you have those techno savvy people who would find exploits which dodgy people take advantage of

[Poeter]

Can you provide some support to your argument ? Im sick of myths like this floating around with no real basis of information.

Generally an electronic dash unit can only be "wound" forward , and only within the first X amount of ks covered - thats with "expensive" OBD2 tools.

Feel welcome to remove my post if you're sick of the myth.

Well there's plenty of info if you try to google this information. There are several videos of this procedure posted on youtube.

My mechanic told me they can do this with their OBDII tools provided they have what they needed to achieve the task. My mechanic didn't want to expand too much detail to me because it was like taboo topic or something for the obvious reasons. However, there are legitimate reasons for mechanic to be able to do this. For instance, replacing a cluster because it was legitimately replaced as a defective component of the car. So mileage correction tools would be handy to keep the original mileage on the replacement cluster.

Here's one video for food for thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0qjwWzs23s

This may not be a honda but I would like to highlight that in my opinion that this may not be that farfetched to occur on any other car manufacturer.

Anything that's electronic can be hacked provided one can find an exploit. As any security expert would say, no system is ever secure.

Now if you want to further argue that these information I post remain base less. Fair enough, you choose to believe they're false, your opinion. Again feel free to remove/edit my post as you see fit.

[mocchi]

Feel welcome to remove my post if you're sick of the myth.

Well there's plenty of info if you try to google this information. There are several videos of this procedure posted on youtube.

My mechanic told me they can do this with their OBDII tools provided they have what they needed to achieve the task. My mechanic didn't want to expand too much detail to me because it was like taboo topic or something for the obvious reasons. However, there are legitimate reasons for mechanic to be able to do this. For instance, replacing a cluster because it was legitimately replaced as a defective component of the car. So mileage correction tools would be handy to keep the original mileage on the replacement cluster.

Here's one video for food for thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0qjwWzs23s

This may not be a honda but I would like to highlight that in my opinion that this may not be that farfetched to occur on any other car manufacturer.

Anything that's electronic can be hacked provided one can find an exploit. As any security expert would say, no system is ever secure.

Now if you want to further argue that these information I post remain base less. Fair enough, you choose to believe they're false, your opinion. Again feel free to remove/edit my post as you see fit.

good info poeter

[dodgyimports]

Generally an electronic dash unit can only be "wound" forward , and only within the first X amount of ks covered - thats with "expensive" OBD2 tools.

Since it seems some are being asked for more evidence - i'd be interested in seeing the evidence to support the above statement.

[dagher23q]

i was looking to buy that ep3 before i bought my car, close call :/

[Poeter]

i was looking to buy that ep3 before i bought my car, close call :/

Did you get to test drive the car? How did it feel over your current one which you bought?

[flop101]

Did you get to test drive the car? How did it feel over your current one which you bought?

im going to test drive it tomorrow. will add to the discussion tomorrow.
edit.. im testing the one at xtreme motor sports

[dodgyimports]

joe @ xtreme motor sports has a pretty solid reputation from what i've seen. I would ask him if you can see the auction sheet (if it came from auction) and de-registration form for the car - i'd be surprised if he couldn't produce them.

[flop101]

joe @ xtreme motor sports has a pretty solid reputation from what i've seen. I would ask him if you can see the auction sheet (if it came from auction) and de-registration form for the car - i'd be surprised if he couldn't produce them.
im not sure if his rep is as good as you think it is.
tried to convince me that no one is allowed to get the facelift ep3s in anymore because compliance for them has been "banned".
After my 15k offer for the 2004 ep3 there was rejected i got on the phone with gavin from IMG and he set the record straight that they are pretty much full of it.

[charliebrown]

LOL 15k is pretty insulting... its advertised for 25k isnt it

gavin gets good cars but farkk they go for around 18

[dodgyimports]

After my 15k offer for the 2004 ep3 there was rejected i got on the phone with gavin from IMG and he set the record straight that they are pretty much full of it.

15k? A decent grade EP3 with circa 60,000 km's goes at auction in Japan for $9,500 thats BEFORE it gets shipped here, taxed to buggery and goes through the compliance process. If you were to try and import one yourself it would cost you approx $18,000 landed and complied.

IF IF IF joe can produce paperwork to verify the kilometers (did you ask him?) then I don't think his asking price is altogether unreasonable. If you're buying from a dealer you should expect to see a margin. Getting an opinion from a dealer about another dealer? LOL

Alternatively you could go and buy one with 60,000kms for $18k from another dealer and believe that he is making 1-2k by doing the compliance himself. Do you really think a 1-2k margin on an imported car would keep a dealer in business?

[EKVTIR-T]

There's one on this forum going for 15.5k

[flop101]

I think you guys are a little confused about what went on (most likely due to how i pieced my comment above earlier).
I offered 15k because i found it quite suspect of them to try and convince me off the bat that no one in Australia can compliance a FL ep3. I asked when that ruling occurred and all i got was umming and erring.
I got on the phone to Gavin from IMG and didnt actually state that i had been to xtreme motor sport, i just asked him that i had been test driving a FL ep3 next to my house (didnt disclose the dealer name) told me that compliancing was no longer available on the FL ep3. I also got him to confirm to me what the situation was about compliancing FL ep3s.
$25k for a 04 ep3 is expensive if you ask me. However im no expert.

[flop101]

[QUOTE=
Alternatively you could go and buy one with 60,000kms for $18k from another dealer and believe that he is making 1-2k by doing the compliance himself. Do you really think a 1-2k margin on an imported car would keep a dealer in business?[/QUOTE]

Im not expert in accounting, however if you had high volume and low margin as opposed to high margin and low volume, it would more or less look the same on your P&L statements.

[charliebrown]

$25k for a 04 ep3 is expensive if you ask me. However im no expert.

bring in a facelift ep3 with 59xxx yourself and see how much it costs... on average they will cost around $22-23000 landed, complied. then add cost of stamp duty and rego on top of that.

xtreme's price includes the stamp duty, and 12 months rego (and warranty?). that's not a bad deal if they can produce auction and dereg papers to confirm the legitimacy of the km

3 cars recently landed and complied
2005/CIVIC TYPE R/2,000cc/57,000km/White/MT/4/$21,700
2005/CIVIC TYPE R C PG/2,000cc/58,000km/White/MT/3.5/$22,300
2004/CIVIC TYPE R C PG/2,000cc/42,000km/White/MT/4.5/$24,700

[mocchi]

lol 15k

[flop101]

bring in a facelift ep3 with 59xxx yourself and see how much it costs... on average they will cost around $22-23000 landed, complied. then add cost of stamp duty and rego on top of that.

xtreme's price includes the stamp duty, and 12 months rego (and warranty?). that's not a bad deal if they can produce auction and dereg papers to confirm the legitimacy of the km



3 cars recently landed and complied
2005/CIVIC TYPE R/2,000cc/57,000km/White/MT/4/$21,700
2005/CIVIC TYPE R C PG/2,000cc/58,000km/White/MT/3.5/$22,300
2004/CIVIC TYPE R C PG/2,000cc/42,000km/White/MT/4.5/$24,700

from which importer?

[Symphorced]

im not sure if his rep is as good as you think it is.
tried to convince me that no one is allowed to get the facelift ep3s in anymore because compliance for them has been "banned".
After my 15k offer for the 2004 ep3 there was rejected i got on the phone with gavin from IMG and he set the record straight that they are pretty much full of it.

Was the offer rejected or laughed at?

[charliebrown]

did you flog his car first?

[flop101]

laughed at

[PHO]

Hahahahahahaha 15k fl ep3r from a dealer hahahahahahhahahahahahah






KEEP IT VIET | KEEP IT JDM
FaLL iN LoVe WheN YoU aRe ReAdY, NoT WhEN YoU ARe LOnEly

[simmy]

Xtreme motorsports
Watajoek

[na-118]

http://www.edwardlees.com.au/stock/1999-nissan-skyline-gt-r-v-spec-3473.htm

Look at the KM's on the video and compare them to the KM's on the add. :)

[mocchi]

http://www.edwardlees.com.au/stock/1999-nissan-skyline-gt-r-v-spec-3473.htm

Look at the KM's on the video and compare them to the KM's on the add. :)

hahahah 154xxxkms

edwards lees watajk m8

[charliebrown]

http://www.edwardlees.com.au/stock/1999-nissan-skyline-gt-r-v-spec-3473.htm

Look at the KM's on the video and compare them to the KM's on the add. :)

sounds like vince vaughan

[grifty]

If you want a legit KM car then buy one thats personally imported lol.

[mocchi]

If you want a legit KM car then buy one thats personally imported lol.

no. jdm abos tamper km too.

[flop101]

Xtreme motorsports
Watajoek

^ what he said

[Rudy]

LOL at edward lees

[Poeter]

honestly i think 15k for a fl ep3 is rather farfetched in my opinion.

The only situation i would think someone would let an fl ep3 go for 15k it would had probably been in bad condition or been in bad prang and then stitched up with camry wheels or what not.