ED6 weight loss on an all carb diet??

[shake]

Well the daily duties of my ED6 are now behind her? So I've decided to give the engine a freshen up, lose the emission choking carbs (for some webers or dellorto's) and trim the fat, so to speak.
This thread is purely about pulling stuff of the car and dropping it on the scales. At times it might be a while between posts so feel free to add relevant info.

The project has since changed directions re the power plant..probably should now read.."ED6 weight low on no carb diet" if ya get me.

Rear seat foam 2.8kg
Boot floor 1.0kg
OEM tools 1.8kg
Jack 1.7kg
Parcel Shelf with 6x9's 9.1kg
Parcel shelf pivot pods 1.1kg
Stock spare tyre 13.0kg (165/70-13 Bridgestone RD-116, still looks brand new, anyone know if this is the factory tyre?)
Hatch plastic trim 0.7kg
Rear lower lap belts and anchors 0.8kg
nuts, bolts, plastic clips for the above 0.2kg
Rear seat upper 9.8kg
Rear side window surrounds 0.9kg
Rear lower trims 4.0kg
Rear boot trim (below hatch at the back), t/light access covers, rear blinker access covers, lower hatch strut bolt covers, fuel line cover (middle one under seat), rear lower trim side pocket, rear strut top covers 1.3kg
Rear retractable seat belts 2.1kg
Front window trim upper 0.5kg
Hand bars upper (x3) 0.4kg
nuts, bolts, plastic clips for the above 0.4kg
Floor mats 2.1kg
CD's random crap & rubbish 0.6kg
Honda log book & service manual 0.8kg
Sun visors 0.7kg
Roof lining & map light 0.5kg
Steering wheel cover 0.3kg
Centre console lower 1.7kg
Carpet 4.0kg
Alloy Peddles 0.4kg
CD Player 1.5kg
ECU cover 1.0kg
Front Speakers (6") 1.1kg
A/C Compressor 7.4kg
A/C Compressor Engine Block Bracket 3.2kg
Rest of A/C equipment in engine bay 7.3kg (not including wiring or, tensioner bearing and belt<my car was missing these 2 parts>)
Exhaust heat shield, behind fuel tank 0.4kg
Power steering pump & bracket 3.7kg
Power steering cooler 0.8kg
Power steering lines, from cooler to reservoir inc hardware and reservoir 1.1kg
Approx 1L of hydraulic fluid 1.0kg
Front factory tow points 0.8kg
Carbon canister 0.9kg
Front inner guards 1.4kg
Horn 0.3kg
Window washer bottle (half full) 1.8kg
Rear guard lip protectors 0.3kg
Upper Steering Column shroud + coin tray + Fuse cover (under steering wheel) 0.4kg
Glove Box 0.8kg
A/C Box behind dash 3.1kg
Vent fan box 2.4kg
Heater core vent ducts and box 4.3kg
Rubber deadner behind dash of firewall 3.1kg
Antenna with cable 0.3kg
Bonnet Release Cable & Latch (on Body) 0.4kg
Bonnet Latch (on bonnet) 0.2kg
Window washer hose for rear 0.2kg
Rear mud flaps (small, attached to inner guard and rear bumper) 0.3kg
Number plate mounting bracket (rear) 0.6kg
Power Steering Rack (lower cover) 0.2kg


get your calculators out ftw

[shake]

Rear seat foam 2.8kg
Boot floor 1.0kg
OEM tools 1.8kg
Jack 1.7kg
Parcel Shelf with 6x9's 9.1kg
Parcel shelf pivot pods 1.1kg
Stock spare tyre 13.0kg (165/70-13 Bridgestone RD-116, still looks brand new, anyone know if this is the factory tyre?)
Hatch plastic trim 0.7kg
Rear lower lap belts and anchors 0.8kg
nuts, bolts, plastic clips for the above 0.2kg

[shake]

Rear seat upper 9.8kg
Rear side window surrounds 0.9kg
Rear lower trims 4.0kg
Rear boot trim (below hatch at the back), t/light access covers, rear blinker access covers, lower hatch strut bolt covers, fuel line cover (middle one under seat), rear lower trim side pocket, rear strut top covers 1.3kg
Rear retractable seat belts 2.1kg
Front window trim upper 0.5kg
Hand bars upper (x3) 0.4kg
nuts, bolts, plastic clips for the above 0.4kg

[shake]

Floor mats 2.1kg
CD's random crap & rubbish 0.6kg
Honda log book & service manual 0.8kg
Sun visors 0.7kg
Roof lining & map light 0.5kg
Steering wheel cover 0.3kg

[shake]

32.2
19.4
5.0

So that's 56.6kg thus far whilst not trying too hard...

[pat88c]

Next step would be remove sound deading from floor
Replace rear side window glass with lexan windows
Fibreglass or carbon fiber bonnet
Light weight biger wheels with slickie tyres

but you also got think about suspension and brakes to go faster

what you using the car for street or full on track work
there many thrends ob here that will help you get more information on going quick

[shake]

There's still heaps more free lightening mods like carpet, center console, air con, power steering etc to go. I'm not too interested I'm lexen or carbon.
I'll probably do some hill climbs and track days.

[grifty]

A/c is a good 20-25Kg.

[shake]

A/c is a good 20-25Kg.
^ Good to know, plenty more right there.


Centre console lower 1.7kg
Carpet 4.0kg
Alloy Peddles 0.4kg
CD Player 1.5kg
ECU Player 1.0kg
Front Speakers (6") 1.1kg

[Daveho1]

just fuk off the car thats 1000kg right there

[ALLMTR996]

Weight and gearing then suspension/brakes engine as per the lets talk D series all motor thread.

[dougie_504]

Instead of lexan you can use Perspex. Not quite as light but much lighter than glass, much cheaper.

If you're hill climbing a fair bit a higher FD in your gbox would go awesome. Bang for buck acceleration right thurrr

[Daveho1]

how far do you want to take this? id be interested to see how light someone could get a say street trim car as well as a track car

[shake]

^^ I'll just list the weights for you guys and you can take your own directions with what parts you can happily go without.

A/C Compressor 7.4kg
A/C Compressor Engine Block Bracket 3.2kg
Rest of A/C equipment in engine bay 7.3kg (not including wiring or, tensioner bearing and belt<my car was missing these 2 parts>)

Some good numbers there 17.9kg

[mocchi]

update your first post to include complete list so far?

[Vvvtec]

Excellent thread, thanks!

[shake]

Exhaust heat shield, behind fuel tank 0.4kg
Power steering pump & bracket 3.7kg
Power steering cooler 0.8kg
Power steering lines, from cooler to reservoir inc hardware and reservoir 1.1kg
Approx 1L of hydraulic fluid 1.0kg

7.0kg

[shake]

As far as my calculations go thats 91.2kg thus far.

[~Sp33~]

Do you have a target weight?

[shake]

No real target weight.
I started with the plans to remove all the dead weight and rebuild the engine with dual webers DCOE/delortos DHLA, but I brought a cheap donor car and plans have been altered accordingly.
Still just picking off everything that I don't intend to use.

Front factory tow points 0.8kg
Carbon canister 0.9kg

[eekayfo]

any plans for the power windows? mirrors are easy, i wonder what the window motors weigh? thoughts on manual conversion and estimated weight saving?

[shake]

I'll definitely have to look into the mirrors. Not sure about the windows, manual windows are a pain with roll cage bars.

[urxqsd]

Great thread, when i start my ED project i can print out your list and count the kilos coming off as i throw shit in the bin..

What is a fully stripped EG compared to ED weigh? anyone got rough figures?

[shake]

I'd guess the eg would be only 30-50kg heavier stripped.

Front inner guards 1.4kg
Horn 0.3kg
Window washer bottle (half full) 1.8kg
Rear guard lip protectors 0.3kg
Upper Steering Column shroud + coin tray + Fuse cover (under steering wheel) 0.4kg
Glove Box 0.8kg
A/C Box behind dash 3.1kg
Vent fan box 2.4kg
Heater core vent ducts and box 4.3kg
Rubber deadner behind dash of firewall 3.1kg

[shake]

Looks like we just cracked 100kg...110.8kg thus far.

[shake]

A/c is a good 20-25Kg.

21kg + wiring as near as I can figuar it. So you were on the money!!

[u mad?]

Nice work, very informative thread

[dougie_504]

Did you weigh the car itself at the start?

[shake]

No I didn't.
Info gathered on the US sites show the range varies from 877 (88' base model) to 1040 (91 top of the line)
The information on Australian sites show our model at 877kg, which might be right for the base model, but not the GL.
The US base model had DPFI as opposed to our PMGCARB.

So at this stage that puts my stripped ED between 777 and 940 which is still a massive variable. If I had to guess, I'd estimate that its around 850-860 at the moment.
Not as lght as most people migh think, but I'm being realistic. I plan on weighing it once I get it mobile again, but there will be added extras such as EFI.

[~Sp33~]

A manual 90-91 model ED6 GL is listed as weighing 900kg, automatic is listed as 921. Air con is not listed as standard equipment, so those figures are sans A/C. Expect the 88-89's to be slightly lighter, and the couple of DX's sold in late 87, early 88 without p/w, p/m or p/s would be lighter again.

Reference from a March '91 ED6 sales brochure.

[shake]

If thats accurate, then I'm already in the low 800's, maybe 810-820ish. Good news allround!

[HwyStar]

iirc, the ED3 is the lightest out of the aussie ED3 / ED6 / ED9 / EE3 family.

[~Sp33~]

iirc, the ED3 is the lightest out of the aussie ED3 / ED6 / ED9 / EE3 family.

Nope. Sedan is heavier than hatch.

[HwyStar]

Confirmed.

1500cc dual-carb hatchie ~ 870kg
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-archive/civic/2-3door/1991/index.html

1500cc dual-carb sedan ~ 940kg
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-archive/civic/4door/1991/index.html

1600cc zc crx ~ 890kg
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-archive/cr-x/1992/index.html

1500cc shuttle ~1080kg
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-archive/civic/5door/1994/index.html

[~Sp33~]

The Jdm models are a little lighter because they didn't have side intrusion bars and had plastic instead of glass headlights

[shake]

Antenna with cable 0.3kg
Bonnet Release Cable & Latch (on Body) 0.4kg
Bonnet Latch (on bonnet) 0.2kg
Window washer hose for rear 0.2kg
Rear mud flaps (small, attached to inner guard and rear bumper) 0.3kg
Number plate mounting bracket (rear) 0.6kg
Power Steering Rack (lower cover) 0.2kg

2.2kg + 110.8 = 113kg

[shake]

Also of note the civic Akebono front callipers have a piston bore of 50.8mm, I intend on using the CRX Nissin callipers which have a 54mm bore. Still maintaining the 242mm/19mm rotors.

The Akebono callipers weighed 3.7kg per side (or 7.4kg front set) including the mounting brackets and pads.

[shake]

On a side not the ed6 master cylinder is 13/16" compared to the CRX 7/8" master cylinder. At this stage I think I'll keep the ed6 master as it's only 2 years old.
I have also decided to use the CRX rear disks but unfortunately I've already thrown the ed6 drums away and didn't weigh them.

[lexlutherz]

Cool thread!

I've got my drums off my ed6 sitting in the garage. I'll try weigh 'em when I get a chance.

[shake]

Anyone want to weigh some ed door that have wind up windows and no power mirrors.

[hondapop]

Also of note the civic Akebono front callipers have a piston bore of 50.8mm, I intend on using the CRX Nissin callipers which have a 54mm bore. Still maintaining the 242mm/19mm rotors.

The Akebono callipers weighed 3.7kg per side (or 7.4kg front set) including the mounting brackets and pads.

Some of the CA model (85-89) JDM Accords (B20A engine) came with twin pot calipers which are a direct swap onto the ED 242mm discs/knuckles. Worth looking into for extra bite. I know they weren't fitted to the AU carbie CA's but may have been on the 88-89 PGM-FI's.

[grifty]

I have some CRX calipers here if you are interested :)

[hondapop]

If/when you change to the CRX rear discs then you may need to consider changing the M/Cyl because you will also need to change the proportioning valve (in front of the M/Cyl on the shock tower). Pretty certain your handbrake cables will not fit onto the disk calipers and the CRX ones will be too short (DA9's may be an alternative as Civic ones may be hard to find).

With the smaller M/Cyl, even with the drum rears, you will probably notice the pedal movement will be a bit longer to actuate the brakes.

[~Sp33~]

Some of the CA model (85-89) JDM Accords (B20A engine) came with twin pot calipers which are a direct swap onto the ED 242mm discs/knuckles. Worth looking into for extra bite. I know they weren't fitted to the AU carbie CA's but may have been on the 88-89 PGM-FI's.

I have these twin piston accord calipers if someone is interested. The rubber dust covers around the pistons are torn, but i have run them and they work fine.

[hondapop]

I have these twin piston accord calipers if someone is interested. The rubber dust covers around the pistons are torn, but i have run them and they work fine.

Were they on the Concerto as well? D16A?

[shake]

I'm using the crx lines and extending the threaded bar adjuster to suit.

I have the crx prop valve and master cylinder also.

[shake]

Crx calipers are 3.9kg each inc pads

[hondapop]

Twinpot's are 4.2kg each complete with pads. As this is obviously not intended for road use anymore, an easy way to get more negative camber on your front wheels is to replace the LCA's with DA9 units, they are a tad heavier then the ED's (thicker width) and it's necessary if you want to retain the stock ED traction bars, to elongate (lengthen by grinding out) the front bolt hole in the bar about 3mm (Where it attaches to the LCA), or you can get some DA9 ones and have the threaded end shortened and rethreaded to match the ED's length.

The DA9 LCA's are longer between the yoke pivot hole and the ball joint hole which pushes the bottom of the tyre outward. (personally I don't trust any of the adjustable upper arms to stay where they are set)

Any of these suggestions you take as ideas only and use at your own risk (thought I'd better put in the disclaimer). The DA9 RTA also will increase neg camber because the pivot hole at the bottom where it's LCA attaches is 10mm inboard compared to the ED (pushes the hub outward). All the other measurements appear to be the same. (I have not as yet tried these RTA's in my CRX yet so there could be alignment issues as yet undiscovered).

[shake]

All good info.

The spare parts car ('88 crx) had abs, so when I tried to fit the prop valve and master cylinder a couple of hours ago...it don't fit.
The rear hole (of 2) on the master cylinder is a larger size than normal so the lines won't mate up. The master cylinder also has ABS stamped on it.
Also what looked like the proportioning valve, isn't the same set up. It is 2 in 2 out, instead of 2 in 4 out like the stock civic one. So it's fairly useless for me.

The crx front callipers however, were a simple bolt on exercise.

I also noted the booster off the crx is bigger than the civic. Both nissin items.
Civic: Nissin NM-205V-3
CRX: Nissin NM-230V-4

I'll leave the stock master, booster and prop valve in and see what else I accumulate before its up and running.

[shake]

Also hondapop, what size are the pistons in the accord twin pots?

[hondapop]

Also hondapop, what size are the pistons in the accord twin pots?

As far as I can judge, measuring across with a tape, 41mm each. The pads are 112mm long (point to point) and 45mm wide at the centre.

That's interesting about an 88 CRX having ABS, thought the first were the EF8 Vtec's. I had a 89 EF7 parts car that didn't have it, still got the ZC engine&box out'a that. (Pic of the inside of the cambox & valve cover)
http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/tootnkumin/HondaPops%20CRX%20and%20projects%20pics/moreGen2pics009.jpg (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tootnkumin/media/HondaPops%20CRX%20and%20projects%20pics/moreGen2pics009.jpg.html)

The CA Accord that these twinpots came off was an '86 with the first of the B20A's (auto) in it. It was fitted with ABS as well. Massive great gadget with pipes and hoses, an electric hydraulic pump, and it's own computer that rivalled the EFI one in size. Bought it after it had hit a lamp post, thought I could straighten out the bent and kinked left chassis rail by the old chain around a post and driving the car backward. Yeah. Found out how strong those rails actually were. Wrecked it instead.

[~Sp33~]

Were they on the Concerto as well? D16A?

No. CA Accord SI (import DOHC b20) only. Concerto's are the same as the CRX in Aus, and comparable to the EF sedan in Japan.

[shake]

As far as I can judge, measuring across with a tape, 41mm each. The pads are 112mm long (point to point) and 45mm wide at the centre.

That's interesting about an 88 CRX having ABS, thought the first were the EF8 Vtec's. I had a 89 EF7 parts car that didn't have it, still got the ZC engine&box out'a that. (Pic of the inside of the cambox & valve cover)
http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac188/tootnkumin/HondaPops%20CRX%20and%20projects%20pics/moreGen2pics009.jpg (http://s898.photobucket.com/user/tootnkumin/media/HondaPops%20CRX%20and%20projects%20pics/moreGen2pics009.jpg.html)

The CA Accord that these twinpots came off was an '86 with the first of the B20A's (auto) in it. It was fitted with ABS as well. Massive great gadget with pipes and hoses, an electric hydraulic pump, and it's own computer that rivalled the EFI one in size. Bought it after it had hit a lamp post, thought I could straighten out the bent and kinked left chassis rail by the old chain around a post and driving the car backward. Yeah. Found out how strong those rails actually were. Wrecked it instead.

Tell me about it, I just finished removing the abs from the loom...I think it was a jdm one which had the plates switched a long time ago. It had all the jdm climate control with japanese writing too as well as the ZC2.

[hondapop]

Being an EF then it will have a lighter rear stub axle setup than the AUD ones. I noticed this when I stripped my EF7 down. The stub axle is tapered and welded (on the back of the RTA) into the extra thickness gusset and that gusset is spot welded into the arm, whereas the AUD has a large nut securing the stub and the gusset is bolted into the RTA (torx head I think). They tended to make export models heavier in sussy parts.

[shake]

While I think about it...
13/16 master cylinder bore area works out about 334.3mm squared
7/8" master cylinder bore area works out about 387.6mm squared

The 7/8 is 16% larger, so the 13/16 will require to move 16% more to do the same job.

[hondapop]

Yes, you'll have a softer pedal feel with more movement. It's how they do "gearing" in hydraulics.

[shake]

yep I know.

[hondapop]

yep I know.

That's good, many don't, Haha

[shake]

I ended up picking up another crx master and 2040 crx prop valve off Pat88c. If any one needs crx bits give him a try as he has lots of bits

[crx999]

Just about to upgrade my rear rotors/calipers to a 260mm conversion( using rear rotor off an mg). I currently have 280mm rotors with a 1" m/c, no booster. Have been using a 2040 prop valve - work fine, but just wondering if a 4040 would be better suited.

[shake]

For all interested and for future reference...this is what Honda supplies on the oem 88-91 civic and crx.
1725 - 242mm fronts with drum rear
2040 - 242mm fronts with disk rear
4040 - 262mm fronts with disk rear

Prelude 88-91
3540 - 262mm fronts with drum rear

I guess it's going to come down to the balance of what suits your car. I think the 4040 is going to supply more fluid to the front compaired to the 2040. As the callipers that suit the 262mm rotors will have larger pistons than the callipers supplied with the 242mm rotors. If you find you have too much rear bias after the upgrade, i'd try the 4040.

[shake]

Aus ED6 headlights - 2.4kg each (glass with metal surround) these have 2 bulb plugs
Jap (civic /crx) & Aus (CRX only) headlights - 1.7kg each (plastic with metal surround) these have 1 bulb plug
Jap SIR headlights - 1.3kg each (plastic with no metal surround), these also have one bulb plug but are easily identified as they are physically longer.

[hondapop]

The JDM SIR (EF8) lights are not only longer (more pointed), but to use them on any AUD ED body it's necessary to get the bonnet, front bar and the "T" bar (top radiator support) from an EF6 update model, as the front panels/bar are extended forward to allow more room for the B Vtec engine. Guards are the same as is the shape of the corner lights but they don't have the 2 screw fixing. AUD facelift (90-91) corner lights match.