Tyre widths for AP1

[Baby Face]

Curious what most guys recommend on the AP1 as far as widths go, apparantly going non staggered on the ap1 is not good (works well for the AP2 guys because they are more understeer prone).

should i keep the stock difference? was gonna get 8 inch wheels all round and run 225F and 245R which keeps the standard 20mm difference and i hope it wont change the car balance.

you guys?

[John42td]

I just put new tyres on my ap1, went with standard sizes which were 205 front, 245 rear which are close to the Bridgestone 225's honda put on originally. I bought car with 205f,225r and it was very tail happy. Tyres were a little old n hard though because of the older lady that owned it before us.

[Baby Face]

she was a pretty nice lady, but i told them that the tyres were going bad to which they said it still has lots of tread...
so you went for 245 rears and kept the front at 205? is the balance off?

[thebob]

Unless you plan on tracking a fair bit the car staggered works well. I was running on 225f-255r for a while and it wasnt until i was at my driving limit (on a race track) did the 225's show there weakness. This was on a set of 17x7.5-+40something and 17x8.5x+40something. Guard friendly setup. With having a skinnier front tyre, the car will favour understeer. In saying that, if your driving like a penis, it will still oversteer.

I have since switched to a 245-255 setup and havent yet had a chance to go back to the track to test the setup out. But i would imagine i will lose some understeer but gain some oversteer.

[John42td]

she was a pretty nice lady, but i told them that the tyres were going bad to which they said it still has lots of tread...
so you went for 245 rears and kept the front at 205? is the balance off?

Balance is great with the 205 fronts and 245 rears. The fronts still hang on better than the rears do. It will still oversteer before understeer, which is what you want if you want a "true sports car". It might not suit everyone. I'm waiting on Phils AP2V1 wheels to turn up though.

I Like that when you have 17 inch wheels there are alot more tyre choices. It does also look a bit better imo. I am wondering how much rougher it will ride though.

[Baby Face]

Bob how are you running such low offsets
www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/342793-wheel-fitment-guide/

according to this you need fairly high offsets

i know from a few ppl that track theirs in our local honda club that the cars will understeer on too fast a corner entry and oversteer easily too. And i have read alot that if you change the tyre widths to a non stagger or away from stock the sway bars etc will no longer provide correct balance for the car.

[John42td]

Depends alot on personal preference, some people like to rotate the car with the throttle. Setting up a car thats good for the street and good for the track is two totally different things. Spring rates,camber toe in, tyres and the list goes on.
Things to consider when setting your cars suspension up that will require compromise.
*how much track time is your car going to see
*are you going to be happy with a hard track setup if 95% of your driving is on the street (look at all the guys that buy track suspension and then sell if for a "street friendly setup")
*tracks are very different as well, some really smooth, some bumpy undulations
*how much are you prepared to spend on suspension/wheel/tyre combo?

heres a useful link http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php

[thebob]

Bob how are you running such low offsets
www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/342793-wheel-fitment-guide/

according to this you need fairly high offsets

i know from a few ppl that track theirs in our local honda club that the cars will understeer on too fast a corner entry and oversteer easily too. And i have read alot that if you change the tyre widths to a non stagger or away from stock the sway bars etc will no longer provide correct balance for the car.

I have the common S2000 friendly (non poke/stretch) TE37's. With 0 camber they fit without issue. With -4 on the front there is about 20-30 mm of space from the outside of the tyre to the outside of the guard. Also I'm at 95mm to the ground all round (jack points), so that helps with easy clearance.

Correct balance for who and what? What setup works for person A, might not work for person B. Its more of a try it, change it, repeat. Also sway bars are used for "fine tuning". They dont add grip, they move it. Grip is completely dictated by your tyres. Its your job to find the best way to get the most out of them for your driving style.

Personally i have had very little issues with oversteer. With the old setup the car would understeer at every aspect of the corner, entry, mid and exit. The rear however was more predictable and use able and generally would only step out on corner exit. Also this only happened at lower speeds say, under 140kph. Both tyres the RSR and RS3 shared the same problem which lead me to believe it was because of the much smaller contact patch on the front. The mechanical grip on offer in the front is a lot less then the rear.


Depends alot on personal preference, some people like to rotate the car with the throttle. Setting up a car thats good for the street and good for the track is two totally different things. Spring rates,camber toe in, tyres and the list goes on.
Things to consider when setting your cars suspension up that will require compromise.
*how much track time is your car going to see
*are you going to be happy with a hard track setup if 95% of your driving is on the street (look at all the guys that buy track suspension and then sell if for a "street friendly setup")
*tracks are very different as well, some really smooth, some bumpy undulations
*how much are you prepared to spend on suspension/wheel/tyre combo?

heres a useful link http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php

I think that part is the most important part. There is always a sacrifice.

One thing i think is very important also is the spring rates. Softer say 8-12kg for using a street tyre, 12-16kg for a street tyre with aero and 16kg on wards for a semi with aero. On top of that you will need the matching valving for the springs you are using.

Like John42td said you need to decide what you want from the car. I offered my experience which despite what i read on the internet, suited me very well and allowed me to achieve my goal times. Coming from a FWD background, I'm comfortable with understeer. Now its time to try something new and see if i like it, but i will need to re align my car to suit the setup and my comfort in the car.

[greek_rambos2k]

im running

front 225
rear 255

generally the car understeers, running rs3 semis. use to run ad08s. car acted the same with the ad08s.

[thebob]

im running

front 225
rear 255

generally the car understeers, running rs3 semis. use to run ad08s. car acted the same with the ad08s.

RS3's aren't semi's. They are a street tyre.

[greek_rambos2k]

http://www.hankooktyre.com.au/Product/MotorsportTyreSemiSlick.aspx?pageNum=1&subNum=5&ChildNum=3

hankook classify it as a semi. It also utilizes R compound rubber into its structure.

more info:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+R-S3

[Baby Face]

yehp i checked it out, next time ill be running 225-245/255 i went with 215=235 last time around, because he had the tyres there and then and they were cheap, understeer was noticable. but its ok.

245 is a much more expensive size though, price increase of nearly 30% for a slightly larger tyre...

[greek_rambos2k]

i paid $220 front $240 rear for rs3s. imported my ad08s from usa, same sizes for $1040 inc shipping

[daevilone]

Rs3s still aren't semis.

I currently run 255 square on street, 225/255 track. 255 square street cause I found some decent tyres cheap and can now rotate. 225/255 track because with my setup square oversteers dramatically. Never going anywhere close to hard enough on the street for that to matter though.

[thebob]

The Ventus R-S3 is Hankook's Extreme Performance Summer tire developed for serious sports car, sports coupe and performance sedan enthusiasts looking for a race-minded street tire that can also meet the demands of autocross, drifting and track events. The Ventus R-S3 is designed to reduce the performance gap between street and track tires by significantly improving dry traction; however like all summer tires, it is not intended to be driven through snow, on ice or in near-freezing temperatures.

Note the highlighted bits.

[Baby Face]

how much are you guys paying for your tyre setups actually?

can you throw up the sizes and price per corner?

i think it would make a good index.

i got nitto nt830 on the rear its prety decent
and n6000 nexens on the front pretty not decent (but cheap and available), but i dont mind understeer.

215/45/17 n6000 nexen for $150
235/45/17 Nitto NT830 for $200 ea

700$ setup.

[muzukashi]

Might be up for a tyre change soon and just wondering would you guys recommend 205 or 225 for the fronts for OEM wheels?
Going 245 for the rears and having abit of mixed reviews on 205/225 for the fronts

[curtis265]

I am thinking of 255 and 255, what will this do ?

[daevilone]

Might be up for a tyre change soon and just wondering would you guys recommend 205 or 225 for the fronts for OEM wheels?
Going 245 for the rears and having abit of mixed reviews on 205/225 for the fronts


I'd stick with 205s also I know people say the OEM s02 is very wide but it doesn't seem wider than the Yoko c drives I have on some other OEM wheels. (both labelled 225)


how much are you guys paying for your tyre setups actually?

can you throw up the sizes and price per corner?

i think it would make a good index.

i got nitto nt830 on the rear its prety decent
and n6000 nexens on the front pretty not decent (but cheap and available), but i dont mind understeer.

215/45/17 n6000 nexen for $150
235/45/17 Nitto NT830 for $200 ea

700$ setup.


For daily use I use Nitto nt555 @~$130 for 255/40/17. They have a decent amount of dry and wet grip. Nothing special but plenty. This is on 6ulrs, 17x9 and 17x10

[Baby Face]

I'd stick with 205s also I know people say the OEM s02 is very wide but it doesn't seem wider than the Yoko c drives I have on some other OEM wheels. (both labelled 225)




For daily use I use Nitto nt555 @~$130 for 255/40/17. They have a decent amount of dry and wet grip. Nothing special but plenty. This is on 6ulrs, 17x9 and 17x10

i read on a S2ki thread that 225 is recommended as the OEM tyre was a 205 but had a grip path of a regular 225.
most 205s just wont handle the pressure, so they said, to do with side wall construction, this tyre had terrible wet grip though so in the ap2 they went wider to get a tyre with similar contact path but better wet grip- theres a website where you can check the contact size of your tyres path, its like an index for various tyres.

i had yokohama A drives on mine before definately werent enough for me.

and to keep the balance they recommend a 20mm difference between front and rear especially on ap1 because of the sway bars and spring rates.


130$ is very good for 255's! i got quoted closer to 300 for RE02 potenzas

[thebob]

I am thinking of 255 and 255, what will this do ?

From what i understand ( and i having similar issues with a 245-255 setup but with a few more factors at play) you will have a tendency to oversteer more with a square setup. Guys usually upgrade the front sway bar to help offset this.

[curtis265]

hmmmmmmm cos i have a set of 4 9" 6ULRs sitting there...

do i keep them and go square with the tyres or sell them :S


hhmmm..

[daevilone]

hmmmmmmm cos i have a set of 4 9" 6ULRs sitting there...

do i keep them and go square with the tyres or sell them :S


hhmmm..

225/45 front, 255/40 rear.

[daevilone]

i read on a S2ki thread that 225 is recommended as the OEM tyre was a 205 but had a grip path of a regular 225.
most 205s just wont handle the pressure, so they said, to do with side wall construction, this tyre had terrible wet grip though so in the ap2 they went wider to get a tyre with similar contact path but better wet grip- theres a website where you can check the contact size of your tyres path, its like an index for various tyres.

i had yokohama A drives on mine before definately werent enough for me.

and to keep the balance they recommend a 20mm difference between front and rear especially on ap1 because of the sway bars and spring rates.


130$ is very good for 255's! i got quoted closer to 300 for RE02 potenzas

At the end off the day you are still putting 225 on a 6.5 inch wheel. Unless the tyre has a really stuff side wall it's going to be mushy. 205 may have less overall grip but will certainly feel nicer. Same with the rear. 245 on a 7.5... people run the same width on 9/10" wheels.

I think a lot of the information that comes from s2ki is created towards autocross as well, in which case they are trying to maximise grip given rule sets.

Same deal goes for square set ups. The class limits tyres to 255. Hence all the 255 square set ups. A lot of the circuit guys run staggered but circuit is less common. I'm tempted to go 255/40f, 275/40r next for my track wheels.

[Ten Four]

205 and 225 on the track suited me perfect. (Very) minor understeer and oversteer when you go past the limit of grip mid / corner exit.

[Baby Face]

oh yes ofcourse on the standard wheel keep standard sizes, the stock rims are quite narrow.

im thinking of picking up a set of 7.5inch rims front and 8.5s rear.

seems tyres are a bit more expesnive in WA?

[Ten Four]

Try this guy: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Westys-Warehouse/202418939836515?fref=ts

Does the cheap stuff and also the expensive stuff (at really good prices). Thing is, you need to bring him your wheels off the car.

[curtis265]

Lol I tried him a while ago, but his tyre machine broken :(


oh yes ofcourse on the standard wheel keep standard sizes, the stock rims are quite narrow.

im thinking of picking up a set of 7.5inch rims front and 8.5s rear.

seems tyres are a bit more expesnive in WA?

Sounds like a typical 2 speed economy